FPM outrunners!!

[Zouxi]

when i watch ex FPMers like Elias Zoghbi, bassam agha, elias bejjani, elie mahfouz and others harshly opposing GMA and FPM for what they say " changement in GMA historical and political opininions and alliances".
however, at a certain point i was wondering whey they did and why they are doing so (are they paid to do so , or did they really change their opininion toward GMA and FPM) and the main question is: do they represent a consistant part of FPMers who decided to leave FPM for one reason or other or they are simply individuals backed up and sponsored by FM and others in 14 february part.

i will be happy to know the truth and some different ideas regarding this particular sensitive point

 

[Amirkani]

when i watch ex FPMers like Elias Zoghbi, bassam agha, elias bejjani, elie mahfouz and others harshly opposing GMA and FPM for what they say " changement in GMA historical and political opininions and alliances".
however, at a certain point i was wondering whey they did and why they are doing so (are they paid to do so , or did they really change their opininion toward GMA and FPM) and the main question is: do they represent a consistant part of FPMers who decided to leave FPM for one reason or other or they are simply individuals backed up and sponsored by FM and others in 14 february part.

i will be happy to know the truth and some different ideas regarding this particular sensitive point

I will make it simple for you. There is one common denominator between them. They all thought they deserved to get something big out of FPM after GMA returned and... they didn't get it (fortunately).

It's that simple.

 

[Spawn Of Cthullu]

Well there's nothing wrong with people quitting FPM, and not everyone who quits the party must be involved in a conspiracy involving the freemasons and the wahhabists w shoo 3arrafni shoo.

But to be fair, the afromentionned guys are pure bogus. I mean okay, if they stopped having faith in the institution they worked in, they'll naturally quit it. But this whole "supersize-my-tragedy" thing, and the marketing they're getting from FPM's rival groups/media, and them accepting being marketed in such vulgar "in your face" manners causes eyebrows to be raised.

Even if these dudes are serious and honest, the way they appear on daily basis in almustaqbal/lbc/etc. where they talk the same stuff (that being 1- The MoU is unbalanced. 2- General Aoun changed, the man they knew before is nothing like nowadays General Aoun. 3- I don't know what 3 is since by that time, i would be already asleep) makes them look as jokes.

P.S. : i may or may not agree with what they're saying. The above strictly deals with the manner in which they're being presented/marketed.

 

[RamitallicA]

they're trying to reach something they were dreaming about for years, and they will never ever reach that place...

we believe in the right man in the right place, they took FPM's alliances and the MoU with hezbollah as an excuse to leave, thinking that they'll destroy the FPM and GMA and build something for their own...

bas el tayyar akbar mennon w akbar men kel wa7ad bia3mol metlon

 

[tamerlane]

when i watch ex FPMers like Elias Zoghbi, bassam agha, elias bejjani, elie mahfouz and others harshly opposing GMA and FPM for what they say " changement in GMA historical and political opininions and alliances".
however, at a certain point i was wondering whey they did and why they are doing so (are they paid to do so , or did they really change their opininion toward GMA and FPM) and the main question is: do they represent a consistant part of FPMers who decided to leave FPM for one reason or other or they are simply individuals backed up and sponsored by FM and others in 14 february part.

i will be happy to know the truth and some different ideas regarding this particular sensitive point

it is clear that every one who joined the FPM has his own understanding of the goals of general AOUN. every one who lacks understanding the essence of general AOUN work will be surprised of his style .
the main goal as far as i know and feel that after his return so many thought he must be aligned with hariri and jumblat to reach the happy end .in the other hand someother superficial were thinking that he will do this or that . i summarize . general aoun is unpredictable . for the random behaviour and attitudes of lebanese he has always some judgement to make an original unexpected let out . so said , those people you mentioned may be think they can use general AOUN as in a way of behaviour or another and use him . no wonder the FM are surfacing them as opponents . the way is obsolete, they do this to hurt him and that is asuperficial way of thinking or if you want very classical lebanese , of low IQ.

 

[generalelie]

when i watch ex FPMers like Elias Zoghbi, bassam agha, elias bejjani, elie mahfouz and others harshly opposing GMA and FPM for what they say " changement in GMA historical and political opininions and alliances".
however, at a certain point i was wondering whey they did and why they are doing so (are they paid to do so , or did they really change their opininion toward GMA and FPM) and the main question is: do they represent a consistant part of FPMers who decided to leave FPM for one reason or other or they are simply individuals backed up and sponsored by FM and others in 14 february part.

i will be happy to know the truth and some different ideas regarding this particular sensitive point

i can say alot about elie mahfouz cus he was my history , geo , civics teacher in school 2 years ago and he was always defending the gma and he lived next to my house in hadad, but he always wanted to become a PM and when the general didnt put him on the list for the elections he got really mad and thats why he turned againist him , he was never an FMPer he has his own movment called " harakat el taghyer ". he always attacked harire and ja3ja3 and jumblat so hard in class and i can remeber one time he told us that ja3ja3 means empty words in arabic. and he has written 3 books, i can remeber the names of 2 , " WA 2ELLA INTAHA LOUBNAN" and it has the pic of FPM students on the cover, iv read that book and its not bad , it has alot of truth and facts in , the 2nd one's name is " MINA EL FINIKYOUN ILA EL 3AWNEYOUN", i havent read it. and btw he's B-day is on 14of march.
one more thing, he is a lawyer, and he wasnt at all succesfull ( or else he wouldnt be teaching) harire gave him alot of cases and paid him money.
Elie.

 

[Rye]

Well there's nothing wrong with people quitting FPM, and not everyone who quits the party must be involved in a conspiracy involving the freemasons and the wahhabists w shoo 3arrafni shoo.

But to be fair, the afromentionned guys are pure bogus. I mean okay, if they stopped having faith in the institution they worked in, they'll naturally quit it. But this whole "supersize-my-tragedy" thing, and the marketing they're getting from FPM's rival groups/media, and them accepting being marketed in such vulgar "in your face" manners causes eyebrows to be raised.

Even if these dudes are serious and honest, the way they appear on daily basis in almustaqbal/lbc/etc. where they talk the same stuff (that being 1- The MoU is unbalanced. 2- General Aoun changed, the man they knew before is nothing like nowadays General Aoun. 3- I don't know what 3 is since by that time, i would be already asleep) makes them look as jokes.

P.S. : i may or may not agree with what they're saying. The above strictly deals with the manner in which they're being presented/marketed.

Spawn.. Objectivity is a virtue... i am happy you showed yours above... and i support your words 100%. keep up!

 

[Rye]

i can say alot about elie mahfouz cus he was my history , geo , civics teacher in school 2 years ago and he was always defending the gma and he lived next to my house in hadad, but he always wanted to become a PM and when the general didnt put him on the list for the elections he got really mad and thats why he turned againist him , he was never an FMPer he has his own movment called " harakat el taghyer ". he always attacked harire and ja3ja3 and jumblat so hard in class and i can remeber one time he told us that ja3ja3 means empty words in arabic. and he has written 3 books, i can remeber the names of 2 , " WA 2ELLA INTAHA LOUBNAN" and it has the pic of FPM students on the cover, iv read that book and its not bad , it has alot of truth and facts in , the 2nd one's name is " MINA EL FINIKYOUN ILA EL 3AWNEYOUN", i havent read it. and btw he's B-day is on 14of march.
one more thing, he is a lawyer, and he wasnt at all succesfull ( or else he wouldnt be teaching) harire gave him alot of cases and paid him money.
Elie.

he was not an FPMer. back in 2005, and of course before turning back against FOM, he declared he is leaving it up to GMA to decide whether to dissolve "al taghiir" into FPM or leave it as it is. GMA apparently asked him to keep his party's identity.

 

[coralie]

when i watch ex FPMers like Elias Zoghbi, bassam agha, elias bejjani, elie mahfouz and others harshly opposing GMA and FPM for what they say " changement in GMA historical and political opininions and alliances".
however, at a certain point i was wondering whey they did and why they are doing so (are they paid to do so , or did they really change their opininion toward GMA and FPM) and the main question is: do they represent a consistant part of FPMers who decided to leave FPM for one reason or other or they are simply individuals backed up and sponsored by FM and others in 14 february part.

i will be happy to know the truth and some different ideas regarding this particular sensitive point

those individuals were looking for manassib thats all ...

now they changed they poltical stand thats ok fine no problem this is a free country ... if they did it silently and calmly i would belived them more enno they are disapointed and changed their minds but when i see the kind of propaganda behind all this "i am leaving GMA and FPM " and all the press conferences they make on "well known tvs" and the bad words and attaks here is start to ask myself were they truely FPMers ? i dont think so those are ppl running after their own personal intrests they do not fight for a patriotic cause ... all they care about is personal gain ! .

i feel that i gave them more then they diserve just by writing this post

 

[Ahiram]

Instead of saying so & so,,,,, Why do not w admit that there is really a tamalmoul inside the FPM.... We hear and read a lot about this,,,,, lot of threads sometimes indicate (be issteeha) so....

I mean, you will not go to a doctor if u do not know that you are sick.
If u do not go to a doctor when u are sick we will get sicker.
If you do admit that you are sick,,,,,,, you will get sicker?

Let us review our tactics,,,,, see what made people yatasa2alou?
may doing this will make us review our tactics and get better and take again the lead.........

 

[chafic]

I think it's a bit improper to reduce the whole issue to some labels such as "opportunist, self-seeker, he wanted to become MP....", or at other times spreading hearsays such as "they were impostors, they used to write reports to Syrians....".

I don't really think that those guys, or at least not all of them, were expecting Syrians to be leaving Lebanon for any soon (2005). When they were working with FPM for the last 15(or less) years, they supposedly did it for patriotic reasons, when they were aware that occupation could last for more years if not decades. They were subject to all sorts of discrimination and persecution, just like other anti-Syrians, and we remember that well.

Now, when the Syrians are out, I understand that they feel resentment to see Murr, Frangieh and others becoming allies, and even candidates for/with FPM, rather than them. I understand that they do not agree with choices FPM or more specifically G.Aoun has made. But furthermore, I don't think it's a felony if they left FPM, or even if they criticize it openly.

The point is, they are selling themselves cheap, to current opponents of FPM, who were most probably the worst puppets of the occupation. They are being cheaply "abused" in an anti-GMA propaganda. Are they aware of it? Nobody knows. Are they really impostors? Nobody knows. Did they forsake the FPM principles, or do they believe that FPM is going off the track with it's behavior? Hard to tell.
The Feb14th group is actually acting like parasites: gathering around anyone they suspect could harm or defame the FPM, and lure (or maybe pay) them into attacking the latter using them as propaganda tools. Maybe some don't have the insight, or the strong will to resist such a temptation, or that they lack awareness (which we all are lacking big time nowadays).

So, the bottom line is that those guys are indeed being misused, and letting themselves be part of some cheap propaganda, but not definitely and clearly because they are traitors and impostors. They are probably being critics for rightful reasons, but using the wrong methods. But most importantly, it's not fair to disregard and distort the contribution of those in the FPM and the opposition for the last 15 years, while at the other we cheer and approve some top corrupters\militias.

Regards

 

[Bachir]

I can help you only in what concerns Bassam Agha, since I was a part in his conflict with Dr. Pierre Raffoul.
Bassam's acts in the elections of 2005 were very suspicious, I really cant give any details in the forum. he commited fatal mistakes which means he is even very stupid, or he knew what he is doing (and i support this choice) and threated FPM. and then a decision was taken in FPM to remove him from his post as a coordinater of FPM-Tripoli, and tghaddena abel ma net3acheh and he went to Bkerkeh and u know the rest. by the way the majority of the activists who went with him to Bkerke didnt know that he went there to announce his resignition, and they are back in FPM and if you want I can give you their names.

 

[Youchka]

So, the bottom line is that those guys are indeed being misused, and letting themselves be part of some cheap propaganda, but not definitely and clearly because they are traitors and impostors. They are probably being critics for rightful reasons, but using the wrong methods. But most importantly, it's not fair to disregard and distort the contribution of those in the FPM and the opposition for the last 15 years, while at the other we cheer and approve some top corrupters\militias.

Regards

Chafic you may not know a lot of what is going on inside FPM, but these people, EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM, left the FPM for a MATERIALISTIC reason. They are all "majeurs et vaccines" and they know exactly what they are doing. So saying that they are misused is very pathetic.
Now to give you more insight about a lot of FPMers. During the 15 years of Syrian opposition, there were no material benefits that could be taken from GMA or tayyar. Everyone had one thing in mind, getting Syrinas out and GMA in. Now when GMA came back and FPM became an organization where there are positins and titles, on top of the deputees that were to be chosen by GMA, here, a lot of opportunism showed in many FPMers. Human beings are not all alike, and not all work, Bi tajarrod, without waiting for any award.
Therefore many people who were not given any concrete position were upset, and the ones who were the least loyal left.

Now to all of you, you should know that there are many opportunists inside the FPM today still, and once the internal elections will happen, you will see many more who will leave FPM "because GMA changed and is not the same person anymore". Tzakarouneh once it happens.

 

[terror]

There exists a huge space between outright opportunism and integrity/conviction.

Had these people been given higher positions in the party, or had they been included on FPM's election lists, would they still have left FPM?
Most probably not. They would've stayed, and praised and justified every decision Aoun has made.

But as my first sentence implies, that's not enough reason to dismiss them as traitors or opportunists. Not even close.

Few things are more frustrating than feeling underappreciated. Had Aoun been welcomed by the current majority as the godfather of the opposition, and praised as the great liberator of Lebanon from Syrian occupation, and been promised the presidency and plenty of Parliamentary seats, would he have still adopted this hostile stance against the Feb 14 group?
Only a delusional FPMer would think so, in my opinion.

 

[none]

i know someone that left fpm and went to lf because he hate muslims!!!!
i m responsable for what i said 100% ....

 

[Rye]

Instead of saying so & so,,,,, Why do not w admit that there is really a tamalmoul inside the FPM.... We hear and read a lot about this,,,,, lot of threads sometimes indicate (be issteeha) so....

I mean, you will not go to a doctor if u do not know that you are sick.
If u do not go to a doctor when u are sick we will get sicker.
If you do admit that you are sick,,,,,,, you will get sicker?

Let us review our tactics,,,,, see what made people yatasa2alou?
may doing this will make us review our tactics and get better and take again the lead.........

and who is happy with the current situation? we are going through very hard times and what FPM is doing is crisis management. this is by far harder than operating in normal cases.

We may find a small problem here or there, but again, look at the bigger picture. the country is in paralysis and you should try to figure out better ways to deal with things instead of saying I don’t like this and don’t like that.

Bodhivista opened a new thread here specifically for this purpose and only one proper answer was received by mkhoury. Nobody bothered giving a systematic approach for a better FPM. Instead of saying this and that, tfadalo give us substitutes. Enlighten us with your bright ideas.

Always remember FPM is the one taking the choices and they are the only ones suffering when things turn bad. shou ma bi kafe the huge attacks FPM is getting with all sorts of media and public means day and night by warlords and thugs claiming to be Mother Teresa, we keep hearing people nagging about the performance, or a picture that slipped here or there.

Wake up ladies and gentlemen and try to make things easier not harder!

 

[chafic]

Chafic you may not know a lot of what is going on inside FPM, but these people, EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM, left the FPM for a MATERIALISTIC reason. They are all "majeurs et vaccines" and they know exactly what they are doing. So saying that they are misused is very pathetic.

Well, Youchka, I didn't pretend that they (and I don't mean anyone specifically) are being innocently misused, or that it is happening against their will. I said that they are letting themselves be misused, either from unawareness, or for financial or political benefit, or even genuine conviction, but I don't see them, at least for now, like traitors for the FPM principles, nor could they be described as impostors (that is actually what you prove later in your post). Ultimately, you could consider them as disloyal to GMA, or even to the organizational body of FPM, but not to the core principles. But the same time, I don't see that FPMers, at least some of them, were any "loyal" (in terms of understanding) to these ex-FPMers, with whom they had a common struggle in the past. They furiously started looking at them as traitors, impostors, heretics, disregarding all other considerations. And you know, that is recursive, resentment is recursive.

Now to give you more insight about a lot of FPMers. During the 15 years of Syrian opposition, there were no material benefits that could be taken from GMA or tayyar. Everyone had one thing in mind, getting Syrinas out and GMA in. Now when GMA came back and FPM became an organization where there are positins and titles, on top of the deputees that were to be chosen by GMA, here, a lot of opportunism showed in many FPMers. Human beings are not all alike, and not all work, Bi tajarrod, without waiting for any award.
Therefore many people who were not given any concrete position were upset, and the ones who were the least loyal left.

What you're saying above is that those people were not self-interested for 15 years. Those 15 years could have been actually 20 or 30 years. And they were willing to stay all that time working altruistically for their country (within FPM).
Now all of a sudden, because they started being materialistic and selfish, they started working on undermining FPM. Now, if that story is plausible at all, at least give credit where credit is due, and acknowledge the 15 years during which they were good Lebanese and "loyal"? FPMers.

Regards

 

[Youchka]

i know someone that left fpm and went to lf because he hate muslims!!!!
i m responsable for what i said 100% ....

Good for him ou alla la yreddo

 

[Youchka]

Well, Youchka, I didn't pretend that they (and I don't mean anyone specifically) are being innocently misused, or that it is happening against their will. I said that they are letting themselves be misused, either from unawareness, or for financial or political benefit, or even genuine conviction, but I don't see them, at least for now, like traitors for the FPM principles, nor could they be described as impostors (that is actually what you prove later in your post). Ultimately, you could consider them as disloyal to GMA, or even to the organizational body of FPM, but not to the core principles. But the same time, I don't see that FPMers, at least some of them, were any "loyal" (in terms of understanding) to these ex-FPMers, with whom they had a common struggle in the past. They furiously started looking at them as traitors, impostors, heretics, disregarding all other considerations. And you know, that is recursive, resentment is recursive.

Chafic, they are definitely not UNAWARE of what they are doing or how others are using them. Now i need to tell you, from personal experience, that the state in which they are started by being out of political benefit and probably turned into genuine conviction as you are saying.

I am not denying what these people did during the 15 years of struggle, however today, they turned their back to the "institution" that they created and that created them. I don't mind that someone leaves FPM, I mean no one is held for life in FPM, however, there are ways to act after you leave.
It's as if you work at a company and you leave for a competitor. Either you are a man of honor and never talk bad about the company where you worked for the sake of hurting it, or you go around and curse it every chance you get.
Like a clean and dirty divorce, like many things. The issue here is not them leaving Tayyar, the issue is, how they acted AFTER leaving it. I know few who left FPM and you never heard about them. As I know of people who left LF and you never heard of. These are people of principle.

 

[chafic]

and who is happy with the current situation? we are going through very hard times and what FPM is doing is crisis management. this is by far harder than operating in normal cases.

We may find a small problem here or there, but again, look at the bigger picture. the country is in paralysis and you should try to figure out better ways to deal with things instead of saying I don’t like this and don’t like that.

Bodhivista opened a new thread here specifically for this purpose and only one proper answer was received by mkhoury. Nobody bothered giving a systematic approach for a better FPM. Instead of saying this and that, tfadalo give us substitutes. Enlighten us with your bright ideas.

Always remember FPM is the one taking the choices and they are the only ones suffering when things turn bad. shou ma bi kafe the huge attacks FPM is getting with all sorts of media and public means day and night by warlords and thugs claiming to be Mother Teresa, we keep hearing people nagging about the performance, or a picture that slipped here or there.

Wake up ladies and gentlemen and try to make things easier not harder!

Rye,

you're probably right about this, but your attitude toward criticism should be less defensive, and more open. You can't confront any critic with the argument "give me a solution". Actually, if every critic had a solution it would be great, and that would be perfect. But it's normal that many times you criticize something that you believe is wrong, while you don't actually have a solution, and this is not a reason for not voicing an opinion. That is actually one step toward solution: perceiving the wrong and being aware of it. Contributing to find a solution is even better. That could sound theoretical, but indeed it is the truth; that over-defensive stance isn't good.

Now you're annoyed about the fact that FPM is the most criticized (not necessarily on tvs), while others, who are rather "incorrect", in political and sociological terms, are not as criticized. That is probably due to the fact that lot was expected from FPM, and yet it is supposed to be performing way better.
It is therefore normal too see scoundrels (on TVs) investing on what we could call a "setback" in FPM's progress toward an innovative liberalist and democratic party. Other criticize from a positive attitude, because they want the better. That should rather be encouraging rather than depressing.

Regards