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FPM reality post SHN 26/05/2020 speech

O Brother

Legendary Member
@O Brother The whole FPM-HA rift wasn't born overnight. It's simply a change of strategy by Bassil.
Bassil is worried about US sanctions. He's trying to mend relations with the USA and distance himself from Hizbullah. This started with the release of Fakhouri a few months ago. That was the first attempt at appeasing Trump.

Johnny Mnayyar seems to agree with me. Watch from 10:00.


I don't disagree with you, this could be indeed the case but does this mean that FPM will eventually exit the government?
Or will there be more of these fights within this government?


Most probably HA wants it as bad as Berri..
And they need it for the obvious reason.. there are strong and very popular calls for this within their community in Beqaa and it is becoming more of headache for them that they must deal with.. otherwise they will have louder voices within the community because of this issue!

I just want to add something here regardiing al 3afou that I'm not sure if the Christian cover is even needed at this moment.. and why is even a sectarian cover all this big of a deal in this country.. ??
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
What I don't understand is that some FPM still think that we are in alliance with HA.
Let me give you some reality check.
After PMA was elected as President HA was against FPM on each possible occasion as few below examples:

1) In parliamentary elections HA allied against FPM with various parties all over Lebanon.
2) In Gov. formations HA always allied with Marada against FPM and imposed inflated portion for Marda 3 MPs block at the expense of the Christian share of FPM
3) In the Gov. most of the times HA voted against FPM; the last was Sel3ata power plant issue.
4) In fighting corruption HA always allied with and covered the corrupts like Berri and others
5) In the admin appointments HA always allied against FPM by trying to force Berri/Marada/8 March Sunnites men at the expense of FPM rightfull share, and by trying to overwhelm the admin on sectarian basis at the expense of the Christians rightful share.

So admit it guys HA is just another party which is fighting yours...........just add it to the list and carry on with your lives.
 

Nevermore

New Member
What I don't understand is that some FPM still think that we are in alliance with HA.
Let me give you some reality check.
After PMA was elected as President HA was against FPM on each possible occasion as few below examples:

1) In parliamentary elections HA allied against FPM with various parties all over Lebanon.
2) In Gov. formations HA always allied with Marada against FPM and imposed inflated portion for Marda 3 MPs block at the expense of the Christian share of FPM
3) In the Gov. most of the times HA voted against FPM; the last was Sel3ata power plant issue.
4) In fighting corruption HA always allied with and covered the corrupts like Berri and others
5) In the admin appointments HA always allied against FPM by trying to force Berri/Marada/8 March Sunnites men at the expense of FPM rightfull share, and by trying to overwhelm the admin on sectarian basis at the expense of the Christians rightful share.

So admit it guys HA is just another party which is fighting yours...........just add it to the list and carry on with your lives.

FPM was always alone in the fight against corruption. It was their cause exclusively, noone else's. Realizing they couldn't do it alone screaming from the sidelines, it was, nevertheless, a valiant effort to try to bring in other groups to build consensus and to make administrative reform a political reality necessary for the survival of the Lebanese state.
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
FPM was always alone in the fight against corruption. It was their cause exclusively, noone else's. Realizing they couldn't do it alone screaming from the sidelines, it was, nevertheless, a valiant effort to try to bring in other groups to build consensus and to make administrative reform a political reality necessary for the survival of the Lebanese state.
I am not blaming FPM for the MOU........it had many advantages for both FPM and the country.
But it is over now as HA already withdrew from it after PMA was elected.
 

Nevermore

New Member
I am not blaming FPM for the MOU........it had many advantages for both FPM and the country.
But it is over now as HA already withdrew from it after PMA was elected.

Agreed. I'm just saying the effort to fight corruption has always been FPM's alone, not pitting blame on them for the rotten situation they inherited. They can only entice their allies so much when their allies don't see a political interest in it.

Makes one wonder what the resolution would be in post-Berri politics. Does HA assume the position of ultimate guarantor for their sect, knowing it comes with even greater responsibilities than they're currently willing to bear?
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
Agreed. I'm just saying the effort to fight corruption has always been FPM's alone, not pitting blame on them for the rotten situation they inherited. They can only entice their allies so much when their allies don't see a political interest in it.

Makes one wonder what the resolution would be in post-Berri politics. Does HA assume the position of ultimate guarantor for their sect, knowing it comes with even greater responsibilities than they're currently willing to bear?
There is only 2 names after Berri: Jamil el Sayed and 3abbas Ibrahim........I hope it will be Abbas.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
It’s amazing how you all see FPM and all parties really as either black or white. In reality each has some good positions/laws/causes and each have some big flaws in the approach/law/cause.

FPM is not alone in fighting corruption. Their position on corruption/electricity/water are good and should be supported. Their position on salary scales, economic growth are not good and I for one oppose them.

the problem is Our politicians/parties and you guys, as a reflection of these politicians and parties, Make up your minds on policies/actions based on who is bringing them forward, not the quality of the plans or actions themselves... and this is the biggest barrier to change in Lebanon
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Great to see that you're now using an old friends' words against FPM! Forget about his and his fathers' past transgressions, right? He looks pretty good against that evil fascist Bassil.

You reap what you sow.

After all,you allied with him after writing an encyclopedia condemning his corruption. Do not think you guys are the only ones that can lose your senses and condescend to the lower pits of hell. When you ignore principles and alliances and you really target your allies in very bad terms, others would naturally develop a distaste for everything you stand for. You dont promote your interests by going rogue. Your guys have really lost it for the past two weeks. These episodes of seasonal madness, whether prompted by your party leadership or not, should be cured. There are ways to table your grievances with your allies without going rogue.
 

Nevermore

New Member
You reap what you sow.

After all,you allied with him after writing an encyclopedia condemning his corruption. Do not think you guys are the only ones that can lose your senses and condescend to the lower pits of hell. When you ignore principles and alliances and you really target your allies in very bad terms, others would naturally develop a distaste for everything you stand for. You dont promote your interests by going rogue. Your guys have really lost it for the past two weeks. These episodes of seasonal madness, whether prompted by your party leadership or not, should be cured. There are ways to table your grievances with your allies without going rogue.

I wonder if the "seasonal madness" that FPMers have been expressing is anything like the hysteria you clearly display every time an FPMer says something you don't like about HA/Amal. The Ziad Aswad thread is only about a week old.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
I wonder if the "seasonal madness" that FPMers have been expressing is anything like the hysteria you clearly display every time an FPMer says something you don't like about HA/Amal. The Ziad Aswad thread is only about a week old.

I never said I am speaking in the name of Hezballah and Amal unlike many forumers here who happen to be cardholders in the FPM. I presently have no use to become a cardholder of any political party in Lebanon. My personal vision for a modern, progressive country in tune with reality is not compatible with what ALL the parties in Lebanon represent, including Hezballah. But, when it comes to the resistance and our right to protect and defend our land and ourselves, that right is sacred. No blackhearted Ziad or blackhearted Umar or blackhearted John or blackhearted Nadim or blackhearted Dima should play politics with an existential issue. If you do, you should expect a reaction even worse than hysteria. Our right to protection and self defense (which the state cant provide) is sacred and above all political considerations and manipulations.
 

Nevermore

New Member
It’s amazing how you all see FPM and all parties really as either black or white. In reality each has some good positions/laws/causes and each have some big flaws in the approach/law/cause.

FPM is not alone in fighting corruption.

Politically? Who else genuinely made it part of their platform, regardless of individual efforts in a ministry here and there? Those efforts wouldn't be possible if FPM hadn't made it central to their political platform. Someone had to push the narrative in order for people to act.

Their position on corruption/electricity/water are good and should be supported. Their position on salary scales, economic growth are not good and I for one oppose them.

the problem is Our politicians/parties and you guys, as a reflection of these politicians and parties, Make up your minds on policies/actions based on who is bringing them forward, not the quality of the plans or actions themselves... and this is the biggest barrier to change in Lebanon

Sure, but a big barrier is also a system that has allowed corrupt elements to fester and feed off the despair of those people who've gotten used to not having what we would consider "good" options.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Iron Maiden @SeaAb @O Brother

ما يريدُه الأميركيون اليوم من التيار البرتقالي هو الآتي: فكّ الارتباط السياسي مع حزب الله وإعادة ترسيم حدود العلاقة معه مقابل إعادة النظر أميركياً في مسألة فرض عقوبات على الجهات السياسية المتحالفة مع الحزب، بمعنى أوضح التيار.

بمعنى آخر يُريد الأميركي توظيف التيار في مجال إبتزاز حليفه وفق معادلة هجينة: "أنا ابتز التيار والتيار يتكفل بابتزاز الحزب" لقاء تجنيب نفسه غضب العقوبات.. وهكذا، يظن الاميركي أنه يحقق مكاسب على ظهر غيره وتالياً يؤسّس إلى سحب الحالة العونية تدريجياً من حضن الضاحية الجنوبية. بالنتيجة الطرفان، أي الحزب والتيار، يخسران في هذه الحالة.


 
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