FPMers, where do you think Bassil messed up?

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    Danny Z said:
    He messed up when he went to France to ask Macron to get Hariri out of captivity in Saudi Arabia, he should have left him rot in there and replace him with Ashraf Rifi.
    Click to expand...
    With all due respect, he messed up when he underestimated the stupidity of the Lebanese people...
     
    Dan`-

    Dan`-

    Well-Known Member
    To answer your question directly, please consider the following:

    1) Sectarian political discourse: Bassil's consistently sectarian political discourse: the "christian rights" mantra.
    This discourse is not only ethically wrong, and damages our national fabric...it is also a lie.

    Ethically wrong: You are the head of a party that calls itself the"Free PATRIOTIC Movement" , which also calls for secularism. People expect you to adopt a discourse that is in line with these principles: advocating for the rights of all Lebanese, from north to south. When they hear you boldly and rudely emphasise on the rights of only one sect, all the time, they will directly question the credibility, honesty and intentions...not only of you, but of your party as well. As Bassil has managed to maintain this divisive sectarian discourse over the years...I can assure you that he and his party have lost credibility and trust by a vast section of the Lebanese public + it generated hate and repulsive attitudes towards that party and its leaders, especially him.

    It is a lie: If Bassil truly is advocating for Christian rights, one would argue that well, he is doing what every other party is doing: advocating for the rights of its own sect. But he isn't. He's actually advocating for the rights of his close inner circle, and those who support him...in other words, its not '72oo2 el masi7iyeen',...rather it is '72oo2 el ma7sobeen 3leh' ... and there's a big difference between the two. If it was Christian rights that he was worried about, he wouldn't have fought the Lebanese Forces and the Marada party over their share in every level of decision making...government, appointments, and much more. They are predominantly Christian parties too, and Bassil has a hobby of consistently fighting them.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    2) Failing to deliver on promises + blaming everyone else: His party has been handling the electricity ministry for most of the past 10 years, and his political group has the majority of the current government AND the parliament AND the presidency. Yet, he never assumes responsibility, and whenever someone questions the lack of achievement and the corruption, he blames others. Sorry, but people are not stupid to buy that.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    3) FPM Presidency: The way he has presided over FPM: He won with no competition - not by coincidence, but by clear and repeated internal efforts to prevent anyone from challenging him. This is not a secret. More so, it is a traditional behaviour of dictators and those who have a lust for power. FPMers and non FPMers watch this, and understand the meaning behind it: Me or no one else. And let me quote what President GMA once said: "Ne7na ma 3enna nowweb bl tazkiyeh!" .. yeah right.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    4) Sectarianism, again: Bassil's consistent unconstitutional refusal to approve the rightful employment of public employees. His justification is that there is no "sectarian balance" in the background of those who qualified. The constitution clearly says that sectarian balance is applied ONLY in first level positions. Using his fake "Christian rights" mantra, and driven by his deeply sectarian mentality, he continues to refuse to allow this bill to pass, and managed to convince his father in law too. Result: Hard working, well deserving public employment test winners have been denied a job they not only deserve, but desperately need. More so, when faced with a question on this issue, he rudely said: "whoever doesn't like this, will have to get used to it" (or something similar).

    Rude, arrogance, sectarian and denying people's right to be employed. Wonderful

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    5) Fake alliances: People have come to realise that Bassil's alliance with Hezbollah is for pure personal and narrow political purposes. One evidence: When he famously said Israel has the right to "live in peace" and that Lebanon does not have an "ideological struggle" with Israel. Two heavy statements that contradict with Lebanon's core struggle with Israel. Another evidence, when he said "2aleeleh shu 3emlo fina el Hezeb?" speaking about the previous elections. His alliance is simply to accumulate more power and support - not because he genuinely believes in anything that Hezbollah stands for or sacrifices. Let's not forget that Bassil was the 'engineer' of ending the alliance with Marada and backstabbing the Lebanese Forces after the agreement with them. So much for Christian unity eh?

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    6) No accountability, no responsibility: Despite all of the above wrongdoings, Bassil never acknowledges responsibility, changes course, or even apologies. Acting like a flawless saint. People see this. Again, we're not stupid. We see this, and it makes us even more eager to blame him and accuse him

    Note that in all of the above, Bassil's 'Baltajeh' comments on Berri wasn't an issue. We all know politicians hate each other but are forced to deal with each other. And that's a Bassil-Berri problem. Not a Bassil-Lebanon problem. The issues above are Bassil's issues that harmed Lebanon and FPM.

    We all know he works hard. We don't care how hard he works, we care HOW he works. On what principles. On what basis. For what purpose. So far, he's been shooting FPM and the Presidency in the heart.

    Result: "Hela Hela....Hela Hela Ho .... " being chanted across Lebanon, every single day ....the FPM facing a major image problem....and the Presidency's achievements are in grave danger

    What's worse? FPM party members continue to blindly support and follow Bassil. How wonderful and comforting!!
     
    shadow1

    shadow1

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I perceive him to be a man with questionable ethics. At the same time I give credit for his short sightedness and his sense of the moment only within the definition of banda2a being a form of intelligence as the society in which he lives in truly believes. A great and fast learner of how Lebanese politics does work and should operate. He wasted no time reaping the benefits of his cleverness for he knows it's a very very small and short window of opportunity he's got. He'll be ditched from the presidency of his party as soon as his father in law shows the slightest respect for it. He knows what he wants and he goes after it, no matter the sacrifices, the costs, the opportunism the machiavillism but in a world of the Lebanese politicians wolves, how could you be otherwise and survive long enough to command the adulation of the masses?
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Well-Known Member
    Well, first of all, we have to agree that Gibran is most hated, because "someone" somewhere wanted him to be hated and Gibran did help them by some of his actions.
    Anyone denying the fact of the organized/systematic media campaign against Gibran and PMA and only focusing on Gibran wrongdoings is naive or hypocrite.
    The finance minister gave a wrong statement about Lebanon debts settlement plan that cost the economy and the stocks around 1 billion dollar of losses, and he had to make a public denying statement from B3abda.........no one questioned him in the media and no one is talking about it.
    The real question should be why "Someone" wants Bassil to become the most hated politician?
    Having said that, Gibran and FPM have lot of work to do to restore their image in comeback with full swing to the Lebanese fighting politics Colosseum.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    NAFAR said:
    Well, first of all, we have to agree that Gibran is most hated, because "someone" somewhere wanted him to be hated and Gibran did help them by some of his actions.
    Anyone denying the fact of the organized/systematic media campaign against Gibran and PMA and only focusing on Gibran wrongdoings is naive or hypocrite.
    The finance minister gave a wrong statement about Lebanon debts settlement plan that cost the economy and the stocks around 1 billion dollar of losses, and he had to make a public denying statement from B3abda.........no one questioned him in the media and no one is talking about it.
    The real question should be why "Someone" wants Bassil to become the most hated politician?
    Having said that, Gibran and FPM have lot of work to do to restore their image in comeback with full swing to the Lebanese fighting politics Colosseum.
    Click to expand...
    I agree but that's a false-equivalency. One is a minister and the other is the head of one of the biggest parties in Lebanon and quasi-President of the Republic.
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The_FPMer said:
    I agree but that's a false-equivalency. One is a minister and the other is the head of one of the biggest parties in Lebanon and quasi-President of the Republic.
    Click to expand...
    And that was one of his biggest mistakes. He made it all about him publicly (a bit like Macron). He is the head of a party but he isn't the party. He is not the President, there is one. Had he had a more team based approached, accepted for others to be more exposed (e.g., Kan3an, e.g. Alain Aoun, e.g. , e.g., e.g., ) things may have been better
     
    Tayyar9

    Tayyar9

    Legendary Member
    Nonan said:
    And that was one of his biggest mistakes. He made it all about him publicly (a bit like Macron). He is the head of a party but he isn't the party. He is not the President, there is one. Had he had a more team based approached, accepted for others to be more exposed (e.g., Kan3an, e.g. Alain Aoun, e.g. , e.g., e.g., ) things may have been better
    Click to expand...
    I agree, he let himself become exposed a lot more than he should.
     
    Chanklish

    Chanklish

    Active Member
    Aoun messed up when he forgot his " ibra2 mousta7il" and going hand in hand with a militia
    he wanted to unifi the rifle .. but now he is ok with missiles ?!
     
    D

    davidov

    Member
    Bassil managed to become the most hated political figure in Lebanon, and he didn't have to work hard to earn this title..
    He didn't do any major achievement since 15 yrs except criticizing his rivals and making fake illogical alliances with all political figures that have no common goals or grounds with him; can anyone tell me why would he run for elections with sarkis sarkis or ssnp or HA?

    what did he accomplish in the ministry of electricity knowing that he has been controlling it since 3 or 4 governments? except for useless dams and turkish power ships costing us millions; we could have built power plants that would power up the whole middle east instead.

    and the most annoying part is that he promised everyone of reform and change and.... and gave nothing but hate and destroying the MOU with LF not to forget all the good FPMrs who run away because of him. unfortunately he simply turned into a creature holding all bad traits of all rotten politicians combined
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    davidov said:
    Bassil managed to become the most hated political figure in Lebanon, and he didn't have to work hard to earn this title..
    He didn't do any major achievement since 15 yrs except criticizing his rivals and making fake illogical alliances with all political figures that have no common goals or grounds with him; can anyone tell me why would he run for elections with sarkis sarkis or ssnp or HA?

    what did he accomplish in the ministry of electricity knowing that he has been controlling it since 3 or 4 governments? except for useless dams and turkish power ships costing us millions; we could have built power plants that would power up the whole middle east instead.

    and the most annoying part is that he promised everyone of reform and change and.... and gave nothing but hate and destroying the MOU with LF not to forget all the good FPMrs who run away because of him. unfortunately he simply turned into a creature holding all bad traits of all rotten politicians combined
    Click to expand...
    @Iron Maiden please pin this post
     
    M

    Mystical Dimples

    New Member
    He did not mess up, his fault is that he is not Michel Aoun, never will be, and can never fully inherit Aoun.
    This is why he is trying too hard, and while doing that, he is losing not only credibility, but also internal support within FPM and the close family.
     
    H

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There's a certain bigotry of low expectations of everyone who is not a subject of this thread, isn't there? Either way, he did plenty wrong, particularly internally and overpromising the deliverables. Being a smart power player and cunning politician among wolves was not one of those wrong things.
     
    S

    scoop

    New Member
    Dan`- said:
    To answer your question directly, please consider the following:

    1) Sectarian political discourse: Bassil's consistently sectarian political discourse: the "christian rights" mantra.
    This discourse is not only ethically wrong, and damages our national fabric...it is also a lie.

    Ethically wrong: You are the head of a party that calls itself the"Free PATRIOTIC Movement" , which also calls for secularism. People expect you to adopt a discourse that is in line with these principles: advocating for the rights of all Lebanese, from north to south. When they hear you boldly and rudely emphasise on the rights of only one sect, all the time, they will directly question the credibility, honesty and intentions...not only of you, but of your party as well. As Bassil has managed to maintain this divisive sectarian discourse over the years...I can assure you that he and his party have lost credibility and trust by a vast section of the Lebanese public + it generated hate and repulsive attitudes towards that party and its leaders, especially him.

    It is a lie: If Bassil truly is advocating for Christian rights, one would argue that well, he is doing what every other party is doing: advocating for the rights of its own sect. But he isn't. He's actually advocating for the rights of his close inner circle, and those who support him...in other words, its not '72oo2 el masi7iyeen',...rather it is '72oo2 el ma7sobeen 3leh' ... and there's a big difference between the two. If it was Christian rights that he was worried about, he wouldn't have fought the Lebanese Forces and the Marada party over their share in every level of decision making...government, appointments, and much more. They are predominantly Christian parties too, and Bassil has a hobby of consistently fighting them.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    2) Failing to deliver on promises + blaming everyone else: His party has been handling the electricity ministry for most of the past 10 years, and his political group has the majority of the current government AND the parliament AND the presidency. Yet, he never assumes responsibility, and whenever someone questions the lack of achievement and the corruption, he blames others. Sorry, but people are not stupid to buy that.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    3) FPM Presidency: The way he has presided over FPM: He won with no competition - not by coincidence, but by clear and repeated internal efforts to prevent anyone from challenging him. This is not a secret. More so, it is a traditional behaviour of dictators and those who have a lust for power. FPMers and non FPMers watch this, and understand the meaning behind it: Me or no one else. And let me quote what President GMA once said: "Ne7na ma 3enna nowweb bl tazkiyeh!" .. yeah right.

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    4) Sectarianism, again: Bassil's consistent unconstitutional refusal to approve the rightful employment of public employees. His justification is that there is no "sectarian balance" in the background of those who qualified. The constitution clearly says that sectarian balance is applied ONLY in first level positions. Using his fake "Christian rights" mantra, and driven by his deeply sectarian mentality, he continues to refuse to allow this bill to pass, and managed to convince his father in law too. Result: Hard working, well deserving public employment test winners have been denied a job they not only deserve, but desperately need. More so, when faced with a question on this issue, he rudely said: "whoever doesn't like this, will have to get used to it" (or something similar).

    Rude, arrogance, sectarian and denying people's right to be employed. Wonderful

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    5) Fake alliances: People have come to realise that Bassil's alliance with Hezbollah is for pure personal and narrow political purposes. One evidence: When he famously said Israel has the right to "live in peace" and that Lebanon does not have an "ideological struggle" with Israel. Two heavy statements that contradict with Lebanon's core struggle with Israel. Another evidence, when he said "2aleeleh shu 3emlo fina el Hezeb?" speaking about the previous elections. His alliance is simply to accumulate more power and support - not because he genuinely believes in anything that Hezbollah stands for or sacrifices. Let's not forget that Bassil was the 'engineer' of ending the alliance with Marada and backstabbing the Lebanese Forces after the agreement with them. So much for Christian unity eh?

    Result: Bassil discredited, hated. FPM's image: damaged

    6) No accountability, no responsibility: Despite all of the above wrongdoings, Bassil never acknowledges responsibility, changes course, or even apologies. Acting like a flawless saint. People see this. Again, we're not stupid. We see this, and it makes us even more eager to blame him and accuse him

    Note that in all of the above, Bassil's 'Baltajeh' comments on Berri wasn't an issue. We all know politicians hate each other but are forced to deal with each other. And that's a Bassil-Berri problem. Not a Bassil-Lebanon problem. The issues above are Bassil's issues that harmed Lebanon and FPM.

    We all know he works hard. We don't care how hard he works, we care HOW he works. On what principles. On what basis. For what purpose. So far, he's been shooting FPM and the Presidency in the heart.

    Result: "Hela Hela....Hela Hela Ho .... " being chanted across Lebanon, every single day ....the FPM facing a major image problem....and the Presidency's achievements are in grave danger

    What's worse? FPM party members continue to blindly support and follow Bassil. How wonderful and comforting!!
    Click to expand...
    I am so glad you put it so clearly and eloquently.
    I think it's a shame the question of this thread has been opened because his faults are obvious to any prudent observer.
    But for the poor leadership of Bassil, the people now in the streets would have a natural ally in the FPM. Instead, the FPM is thrown onto the same pile of shit and there is no organised force to deal with this huge opportunity for reform that will go wasted. Having him installed as the leader of the party was a big existential error. Aoun needs to own that and he has to own everything the flows from it. He can assume responsibility by stepping down with the rest. He is complicit even if he has no stains on his own hands.
     
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