FPM's 2005 Promises and follow throughs

[Red Phoenix]

Simple questions from a person who voted for fpm and was aligned with it, but who doesn't care much anymore as fpm no longer represents my interests.
That said these questions are honest, unlike the hatemob out there from LFers and PSPers who ever hate fpm/aoun blindly whatever it did.

Now FPM promised and did a few things since 2005, in and out of power, so lets recap shall we:

-Fighting the system: In 2005 when Aoun returned, the promise was that we will deal with the corrupt current system, now in 2019 how was this achieved? because from what we can tell fpm is now part and parcel of the weird lebanese un-fixable system. It allied with everyone, hariri/hisb/owet/awme/amal/jumblat.. so after 14 years, 3 years of which aoun is president, how is fpm 'fighting the system' ? it isnt.

-Open dialogue and forum of thought: also in 2005 and for a few years later, fpm online and offline was brimming with potential from ppl with energy and new/diverging thoughts. all of that was clammed. this forum was taking over by tayyar.org which tried to shut it down, but the original owner of the site managed to pry it off after a big of drama and set it online again as 'unaffiliated with fpm' and it has been like this since then. Why shutdown a forum like this? Also, why is tayyar.org so partisan ? it never tried to be balanced in its coverage. Same for OTV, it opened after asking for ppl to buy shares then immediately turned into an christian version of unwatchable NBN.

-FPM the party and democracy: elections got delayed and delayed and bassil got put in power with a sham election, what type of example is that to set ?

-Bassil as new fpm leader: most people who supported aoun, didnt give out a blank cheque to blindly support bassil or any other person like roukouz. but now we are in a situation where bassil is a new leader/player in the lebanese scene that was brought down by a parachute almost. he speaks in the name of more than he represents. ppl voted for X and X gave Y the power to represent him.. not acceptable

-The presidency, this post means alot to alot of people, regardless how much you like or dislike aoun, this post is important. 3 years into the 3ahd of compromises the presidency did very little if nothing, delegating all political issue to bassil.. how the hell did things get to that point. the alliance with geagea should not have been handled the way it was for instance. it was left to rot. it took alot of effort and years to right a wrong by getting a christian who isnt a puppet into power, to then have it all f-cked up by wasting time while the economy was going down and deferring to bassil way more that he should have been allowed to handle politically


-Hisbullah issue: fpm agreed with the MOU that it wont backstab hisbullah but in return the hisb will discuss its arms. This promise was dropped and forgotten. fpm is now defacto allied with hisbullah blindly. this is not normal.

-Reform and economic issues: where is the call for a secular state we heard about from fpm previously? where are actionable moves for economic reforms? i dont know what is in bassil's bank account but his attitude towards everything he handled from the electricity to external affairs gives me the impression that he is personally soloing his moves. his actions and their consequences on us dont seem to concern him as much as his political ambition. Hariri was a failure in fixing the economy but what did fpm do better?

All of this didnt happen over night, but rather bit by bit over a relative long time of blind eyes, blind rhetoric and complacency

The more fpm was attacked by sectarians from the hariri side in the past, the more it actually became pro sectarian, it didnt resist this attack which started wrongfully

The more fpm tried to fix the issue with hisbullah, the more it got dragged into the mud with hisbullah where it now sits happily, tho this wasnt the plan originally

The more fpm got into this ruling system to fight corruption and bring reform, the more it forgot about these 2 topics and is content now at being the new Kataeb/Amal content at hiring people and getting contracts

The more fpm fought to return the presidency, the more the presidency doesnt actually do anything due to all the deferring and detachment that is happening

As for free thought and speech community, fpm is no longer an open forum, OTV, tayyar and fpm partisans arent as open as they used to be, only diehards remaining

I stand by my original assessment, the tayyar (as fpm wasnt registered then) in 2005 was different

There was alot of people wrongfully attacking it on this forum and outside, regardless of their intentions, fpm did not pass most of the tests

The only test it passed was providing some temporary stability with the compromise first with hisbullah, then geagea then hairri that lead to aoun getting elected and the 3ahd starting with a unity government. but the benefits of this ran out. they were temporary.

Im not giving fuel to fpm's blind official detractors, i am rather writing and asking this from my solo angle not theirs. Based on promises, events and chronology.

Looking back at the mirror and fighting demons has actually touched in black what this movement was all about

We are almost in 2020 now, fpm is in the government and has a president, yet we are financially and economically and politically and socially nowhere were fpm in 2005 originally wanted us to be

 

[Chingon]

I realised over the years that the FPM base was always divided in terms of idealogy.

There were people like me and you, the younger generation that wanted a secular FPM and fighting corruption as priorities.

And then there were the Aoun followers who just idolised the man more rather than the cause.

Unfortunately they were the vast majority of FPM followers on the ground. We had high hopes because we were interacting

with the intellectual bunch here on the forum and some good decent people in the leadership.

This divide was reflected inside the leadership too, the hardcore morons got hold of the party and appeased to the majority of FPM followers.

Remember the phrase "shad el 3asab el masi7e". They probably did what they needed to do for the party to survive in the short term.

And now what's left are the morons on OTV and these typical party fanatics in baabda that are no different than the Jombis and Geageaists.

 

[Jorje]

You're 15 years too late. The cards became obvious in 2006.

I gather there were two factions: the power hungry and the reformers. It's an oversimplification, but the power hungry won. They tried to sell "defense of Christians" and "the only way we can change is by being part of the system" but in reality they were seeking influence. At the end of the day Aoun sided with the first camp, probably because he was also impatient for power.

The second option would have meant years of struggle, being opposed to all other factions and with a risk of diminishing returns over the short term. It's the right and honest option but it would have left FPM without much stake in the system it supposedly wants to change. At the end of the day there is a price to pay for real change.

 

[Chingon]

The second option would have meant years of struggle, being opposed to all other factions and with a risk of diminishing returns over the short term. It's the right and honest option but it would have left FPM without much stake in the system. At the end of the day there is a price to pay for real change.

If they followed the path of forming a proper democratic party, adopted secularism and educated their fanatic base of followers, stayed neutral in

the HA debate because they should known that no Lebanese have a say in that, remained against Berri and his cronies,

I would like to think that the honest ppl on the streets today would've all been FPM members from all sects and areas, and we would've had a capable revolution leadership that could tilt the balance of power.

Yes it would've been a long battle but thats how good parties evolve. At the end of the day I feel like the downfall started when they won big in 2005. The same thing happened with newly formed parties around europe that won in similar fashion righ after the economic crisis. Now they're either rotting in power or barely existing.

 

[Jorje]

If they followed the path of forming a proper democratic party, adopted secularism and educated their fanatic base of followers, stayed neutral in

the HA debate because they should known that no Lebanese have a say in that, remained against Berri and his cronies,

I would like to think that the honest ppl on the streets today would've all been FPM members from all sects and areas, and we would've had a capable revolution leadership that could tilt the balance of power.

Maybe. In 2005, I remember FPM had like 20 MPs or something. Imagine if today Ta7lof Watani had 20 MPs. That was the only time I had any kind of hope, until they decided to dump it all and become part of the system.

Who knows? What I can say if this was a genuine reform movement, they would not have allowed it to get where it is right now. Most of the people stayed despite the policy course, even when they actually stopped pretending that they were guided by any kind of principle (probably around 2007-2009), so it was all smoke and mirrors to start with.

 

[JB81]

Until the majority of Lebanese change; FPM remains the only hope even with all it's shortcomings.

 

[Jorje]

Until the majority of Lebanese change; FPM remains the only hope even with all it's shortcomings.

Exhibit A. The lies and delusions you've been feeding yourselves for 15 years to stay the course.

 

[JB81]

Exhibit A. The lies and delusions you've been feeding yourselves for 15 years to stay the course.

Your blind hate

 

[Anti Iran]

It is a relieving experience such as to wake up from a long lethargy. It is like getting "unplugged" from the matrix/fpm and tasting the true savor of life, freedom, and self-confidence unlike the many idolaters who are still worshipping these demonic leaders. This does not apply only to fpmers but to all who blindly worship his leaders.

Regarding fpm as the question revolves around that: tayyar pre 2005 is not the same as tayyar post 2005.

The pivotal date was when Karim Pakradouni and Emile Emile Lahoud promised Michel Aoun many good things if he joins forces with Syria and Iran, and so he did at the expense of the young nascent revolution of 14 March which was wiping all the Syrian defects in Lebanon : Lahoud, 3addoum, 2asmeh, ba3seh, Jamil el Sayed.

 

[dyyyy]

Until the majority of Lebanese change; FPM remains the only hope even with all it's shortcomings.

How will you know if the lebanese people changed ? Is what's happening now a sign for you ?

 

[Ralph N]

Simple questions from a person who voted for fpm and was aligned with it, but who doesn't care much anymore as fpm no longer represents my interests.
That said these questions are honest, unlike the hatemob out there from LFers and PSPers who ever hate fpm/aoun blindly whatever it did.

Now FPM promised and did a few things since 2005, in and out of power, so lets recap shall we:

-Fighting the system: In 2005 when Aoun returned, the promise was that we will deal with the corrupt current system, now in 2019 how was this achieved? because from what we can tell fpm is now part and parcel of the weird lebanese un-fixable system. It allied with everyone, hariri/hisb/owet/awme/amal/jumblat.. so after 14 years, 3 years of which aoun is president, how is fpm 'fighting the system' ? it isnt.

-Open dialogue and forum of thought: also in 2005 and for a few years later, fpm online and offline was brimming with potential from ppl with energy and new/diverging thoughts. all of that was clammed. this forum was taking over by tayyar.org which tried to shut it down, but the original owner of the site managed to pry it off after a big of drama and set it online again as 'unaffiliated with fpm' and it has been like this since then. Why shutdown a forum like this? Also, why is tayyar.org so partisan ? it never tried to be balanced in its coverage. Same for OTV, it opened after asking for ppl to buy shares then immediately turned into an christian version of unwatchable NBN.

-FPM the party and democracy: elections got delayed and delayed and bassil got put in power with a sham election, what type of example is that to set ?

-Bassil as new fpm leader: most people who supported aoun, didnt give out a blank cheque to blindly support bassil or any other person like roukouz. but now we are in a situation where bassil is a new leader/player in the lebanese scene that was brought down by a parachute almost. he speaks in the name of more than he represents. ppl voted for X and X gave Y the power to represent him.. not acceptable

-The presidency, this post means alot to alot of people, regardless how much you like or dislike aoun, this post is important. 3 years into the 3ahd of compromises the presidency did very little if nothing, delegating all political issue to bassil.. how the hell did things get to that point. the alliance with geagea should not have been handled the way it was for instance. it was left to rot. it took alot of effort and years to right a wrong by getting a christian who isnt a puppet into power, to then have it all f-cked up by wasting time while the economy was going down and deferring to bassil way more that he should have been allowed to handle politically


-Hisbullah issue: fpm agreed with the MOU that it wont backstab hisbullah but in return the hisb will discuss its arms. This promise was dropped and forgotten. fpm is now defacto allied with hisbullah blindly. this is not normal.

-Reform and economic issues: where is the call for a secular state we heard about from fpm previously? where are actionable moves for economic reforms? i dont know what is in bassil's bank account but his attitude towards everything he handled from the electricity to external affairs gives me the impression that he is personally soloing his moves. his actions and their consequences on us dont seem to concern him as much as his political ambition. Hariri was a failure in fixing the economy but what did fpm do better?

All of this didnt happen over night, but rather bit by bit over a relative long time of blind eyes, blind rhetoric and complacency

The more fpm was attacked by sectarians from the hariri side in the past, the more it actually became pro sectarian, it didnt resist this attack which started wrongfully

The more fpm tried to fix the issue with hisbullah, the more it got dragged into the mud with hisbullah where it now sits happily, tho this wasnt the plan originally

The more fpm got into this ruling system to fight corruption and bring reform, the more it forgot about these 2 topics and is content now at being the new Kataeb/Amal content at hiring people and getting contracts

The more fpm fought to return the presidency, the more the presidency doesnt actually do anything due to all the deferring and detachment that is happening

As for free thought and speech community, fpm is no longer an open forum, OTV, tayyar and fpm partisans arent as open as they used to be, only diehards remaining

I stand by my original assessment, the tayyar (as fpm wasnt registered then) in 2005 was different

There was alot of people wrongfully attacking it on this forum and outside, regardless of their intentions, fpm did not pass most of the tests

The only test it passed was providing some temporary stability with the compromise first with hisbullah, then geagea then hairri that lead to aoun getting elected and the 3ahd starting with a unity government. but the benefits of this ran out. they were temporary.

Im not giving fuel to fpm's blind official detractors, i am rather writing and asking this from my solo angle not theirs. Based on promises, events and chronology.

Looking back at the mirror and fighting demons has actually touched in black what this movement was all about

We are almost in 2020 now, fpm is in the government and has a president, yet we are financially and economically and politically and socially nowhere were fpm in 2005 originally wanted us to be

Aoun promised LF to give them half the ministers... didnt happen.
Bassil is having super powers... very wrong...
FPM is not the dream we used to believe..

They remain with HIZB ALLA the best option..

Remember Block 9. Syrians in Lebanon.. Palestinians... those things we are fighting for... All others are encouraging ISrael to steal and Syrians to stay....

 

[JB81]

How will you know if the lebanese people changed ? Is what's happening now a sign for you ?

Only elections tell

 

[dyyyy]

Only elections tell

Fair point, but think about the vicious circle.
Think how many sunnis hate Hariri but still vote for him because in previous elections they didn't see any change from the christian side, and in the next elections you'll see that sunnis didn't change so you keep the same ideas....and so on

 

[My Moria Moon]

Simple questions from a person who voted for fpm and was aligned with it, but who doesn't care much anymore as fpm no longer represents my interests.
That said these questions are honest, unlike the hatemob out there from LFers and PSPers who ever hate fpm/aoun blindly whatever it did.

Now FPM promised and did a few things since 2005, in and out of power, so lets recap shall we:

-Fighting the system: In 2005 when Aoun returned, the promise was that we will deal with the corrupt current system, now in 2019 how was this achieved? because from what we can tell fpm is now part and parcel of the weird lebanese un-fixable system. It allied with everyone, hariri/hisb/owet/awme/amal/jumblat.. so after 14 years, 3 years of which aoun is president, how is fpm 'fighting the system' ? it isnt.

-Open dialogue and forum of thought: also in 2005 and for a few years later, fpm online and offline was brimming with potential from ppl with energy and new/diverging thoughts. all of that was clammed. this forum was taking over by tayyar.org which tried to shut it down, but the original owner of the site managed to pry it off after a big of drama and set it online again as 'unaffiliated with fpm' and it has been like this since then. Why shutdown a forum like this? Also, why is tayyar.org so partisan ? it never tried to be balanced in its coverage. Same for OTV, it opened after asking for ppl to buy shares then immediately turned into an christian version of unwatchable NBN.

-FPM the party and democracy: elections got delayed and delayed and bassil got put in power with a sham election, what type of example is that to set ?

-Bassil as new fpm leader: most people who supported aoun, didnt give out a blank cheque to blindly support bassil or any other person like roukouz. but now we are in a situation where bassil is a new leader/player in the lebanese scene that was brought down by a parachute almost. he speaks in the name of more than he represents. ppl voted for X and X gave Y the power to represent him.. not acceptable

-The presidency, this post means alot to alot of people, regardless how much you like or dislike aoun, this post is important. 3 years into the 3ahd of compromises the presidency did very little if nothing, delegating all political issue to bassil.. how the hell did things get to that point. the alliance with geagea should not have been handled the way it was for instance. it was left to rot. it took alot of effort and years to right a wrong by getting a christian who isnt a puppet into power, to then have it all f-cked up by wasting time while the economy was going down and deferring to bassil way more that he should have been allowed to handle politically


-Hisbullah issue: fpm agreed with the MOU that it wont backstab hisbullah but in return the hisb will discuss its arms. This promise was dropped and forgotten. fpm is now defacto allied with hisbullah blindly. this is not normal.

-Reform and economic issues: where is the call for a secular state we heard about from fpm previously? where are actionable moves for economic reforms? i dont know what is in bassil's bank account but his attitude towards everything he handled from the electricity to external affairs gives me the impression that he is personally soloing his moves. his actions and their consequences on us dont seem to concern him as much as his political ambition. Hariri was a failure in fixing the economy but what did fpm do better?

All of this didnt happen over night, but rather bit by bit over a relative long time of blind eyes, blind rhetoric and complacency

The more fpm was attacked by sectarians from the hariri side in the past, the more it actually became pro sectarian, it didnt resist this attack which started wrongfully

The more fpm tried to fix the issue with hisbullah, the more it got dragged into the mud with hisbullah where it now sits happily, tho this wasnt the plan originally

The more fpm got into this ruling system to fight corruption and bring reform, the more it forgot about these 2 topics and is content now at being the new Kataeb/Amal content at hiring people and getting contracts

The more fpm fought to return the presidency, the more the presidency doesnt actually do anything due to all the deferring and detachment that is happening

As for free thought and speech community, fpm is no longer an open forum, OTV, tayyar and fpm partisans arent as open as they used to be, only diehards remaining

I stand by my original assessment, the tayyar (as fpm wasnt registered then) in 2005 was different

There was alot of people wrongfully attacking it on this forum and outside, regardless of their intentions, fpm did not pass most of the tests

The only test it passed was providing some temporary stability with the compromise first with hisbullah, then geagea then hairri that lead to aoun getting elected and the 3ahd starting with a unity government. but the benefits of this ran out. they were temporary.

Im not giving fuel to fpm's blind official detractors, i am rather writing and asking this from my solo angle not theirs. Based on promises, events and chronology.

Looking back at the mirror and fighting demons has actually touched in black what this movement was all about

We are almost in 2020 now, fpm is in the government and has a president, yet we are financially and economically and politically and socially nowhere were fpm in 2005 originally wanted us to be

Valuable input for the party's analysts to think about. Also nailed the overall sentiment and question marks many less die-heart current and former FPM supporters have. I have my thoughts about the subject, but will refrain from sharing them for now.