France - terrorist attacks [Priest killed in Rouen church attack]

HannaTheCrusader

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
the dangerous part is that every reaction to these obscene act is simply being faced by annexing it to the "far right".. quite a misfortune, because this will only make the impact at the end of the end of this path much more violent.


so be it
cancer needs chemo.no other altenative
as the left in the west failed miserably
 

nonsense

Legendary Member
How to Understand the Beheading of a French Priest
by ROBERT FISK

Faced with the murder and beheading of seven of his monks by Islamists 20 years ago, the Archbishop of Algiers went one better than the Archbishop of Rouen this week. He didn’t talk about the slaughter of an elderly priest as the “unnameable”. He saw the road of Calvary. In fear of his own life amid a ferocious conflict, Monseigneur Henri Teissier, 67 years old and a French professor of Arabic, responded by celebrating mass for six nuns and monks all those years ago by reading from St Matthews, Chapter 25, verse 13: “Watch, therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh.”

The tiny congregation had originally gathered that day in 1996 to remember one of France’s first religious martyrs in Algiers, Vicomte Charles de Foucauld, the soldier-turned-priest who was assassinated by an Islamist in Tamanrasset in 1916; his murder set an awful precedent for the killing of all French priests by those who claimed they were motivated by Islam. Surely Father Jacques Hamel would have known of him. The Vicomte was killed only 14 years before he was born.

But when Teissier talked to me of the seven monks taken from their monastery in the beautiful hills above Tibherine, his words might have been uttered about the killers of 86-year-old Father Hamel. “They will kill a boy of two or an old man of 85 [sic]. I think they are out of their consciences. They work under their understanding of Islamic law – ‘We have to kill the enemies of the Lord’ – and it is finished. We think not only of our life but of the lives of all the people in Algeria…” A generous man, Teissier.

The Algerian civil war – between a brutal Islamist army and the equally savage Algerian army which had fatally cancelled elections which Islamists would have won in 1992 – had by 1996 already reached Syrian proportions: babies with their throats cut, women massacred in front of their husbands, men routinely decapitated. The police tortured their prisoners by pumping water into their stomachs until their victims exploded. It was inevitable that the killers from the GIA, the Islamic Armed Group, would turn upon all foreigners – and that also meant priests and bishops.

The monks of Tibherine, whose own Golgotha would be made into a poignant and superb film, Of Gods and Men, were taken from their monastery where they had looked after and given medical aid not only to the local Algerian Muslim villagers, but to the Islamist fighters themselves. That may have been their undoing. More on that later.

But first, back to Teissier and his appalling, magnificent reflections upon their deaths. “It is true that we found only their heads,” he said quietly on that hot Algiers afternoon, the sound of police sirens echoing over the city. “Three of their heads were hanging from a tree near a petrol station. The other four heads were lying on the grass beneath. But it is marvellous that the families of those monks maintained their friendship for us and for all Algerians. They had visited the monastery. They had been able to accept the loss of their sons. They knew it was not all Algerians who did this thing.”

Could such words be repeated today, I wonder, to the racists and right-wingers who demand the punishment of all Muslims for the crimes of a few? At 87, Teissier, who took Algerian citizenship in 1962 after the country’s ghastly independence war against the French, is still alive; indeed, he pleaded for good Christians and good Muslims to remain together and “build bridges”, as he put it, after the Charlie Hebdo massacre in January last year. He is, after all, an expert at the grotesquerie as well as the magnificence of faith.

So here is what he also said to me on that broiling Algiers day two decades ago: “The most difficult thing is to know that every day some people die, mothers cry for their sons and daughters. We ourselves are not in the same situation as we were before this [Algerian] crisis. When you begin celebrating the Eucharist, you cannot help remembering that Jesus was murdered by human violence – in the name of religion. Now we have to understand the risk in this society, that we are walking in the footsteps of Jesus. We cannot look at the cross of Jesus as we have done before. Before it was an abstract thing. Now it is a daily reality.”

How wonderfully spoken. How appropriate are these words amid the horror of Father Hamel’s sacrifice. But is that what it was? A “sacrifice”? Or does that obscure the act of murder most foul?

It was Teissier who took the phone call which told him that all seven monks had been decapitated. The Algerian authorities blamed the GIA led by a man called Sayah Attia, who one of the Tibherine monks had supposedly recognised when he answered the door, the same man whose face had appeared in a photograph that identified him as the murderer of Yugoslav civilians whose throats had been slashed close to the monastery.

But there is, alas, another deeply disturbing story about the monks. Enquiries by the French security services – and by journalists on Le Monde newspaper – suggested that after the GIA had kidnapped the seven men, the Algerian army, which maintained close liaisons with the French military, attempted a rescue mission. But they blundered. Not only did they kill the GIA men but shot dead the monks as well. Unwilling to reveal their disastrous operation, they then cut off the heads of the monks – as if they were the result of Islamist murders – and buried the bullet-riddled torsos of the seven. Hence only the heads were found.

Another theory – and we shall never know the truth – is that the Algerian security police wanted the monks kidnapped and dead as a punishment for all those who assisted the GIA, even when their only sin was to give them medical aid.

There is still doubt as to who
, in the very same year, murdered the Bishop of Oran. Mgr Pierre Claverie died in a bomb explosion on the very same day he had met the French Foreign Minister, Herve de Charrette. “The bomb went off in the street,” Teissier told me then. “He was crushed by the door of the chapel and his brains were found on the chapel floor. It was absurd, idiotic, unconscionable.”

But there is no doubt about who killed Father Hamel. Adel Kermiche was one of two men who murdered the old priest. He was born only a few months after the Tibherine monks were murdered. No connection, of course. But according to neighbours, Kermiche was born in Algeria. Now there’s a historical clue if anyone has the courage to search for it.

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here, that is a better version of the same story.

conclusions:
  1. for generations priests, monks and nuns are being killed and beheaded by islamists, oftentimes despite tending to the islamists wounds and even treating them.
  2. sometimes they are possibly killed by the governments of the arab world, some other times by the extremists.
  3. Christians forgive and attempt to build bridges.
  4. it is only expected that people in general, and the far right in particular, will not react the same way to priests being beheaded in a muslim country that they would to a priest being beheaded in Rouin.
  5. as to robert fisk, toul 3omro darbe 3al 7efir w darbe 3al mesmar.
You've missed quite a lot in your conclusions. Try re-reading it sometime and get the point the author's making.
 

HannaTheCrusader

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
أعلن رئيس الوزراء الفرنسي، مانويل فالس، تأييده تعليق التمويل الخارجي للمساجد بشكلٍ مؤقت، لكنه أعرب في المقابل عن أمله في فتح صفحة جديدة مع مسلمي فرنسا، بعد سلسلة اعتداءات دموية هزت البلاد في الفترة الأخيرة.

saf7et shou ???
 

Venom

Legendary Member
France mulls banning foreign financing for mosques


French Prime Minister Manuel Valls says an indefinite prohibition on foreign financing of mosques is under consideration amid predictions of more terror atrocities after the murder of a priest in a Normandy church by ISIS supporters.“This war, which does not only concern France, will be long and we will see more attacks,” he added. “But we will win, because France has a strategy to win this war. First we must crush the external enemy.”

The French government is under increasing criticism for failing to prevent the attack in Normandy when the security forces were warned that one of the killers was out and dangerous.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
You've missed quite a lot in your conclusions. Try re-reading it sometime and get the point the author's making.
we all got the point you were making. you conveniently missed mine. so i will be frank and straight to the point like usual, since i do not snake my way to the truth. when you want to get the author's point across you do not highlight the things that suite you to forward your own perspective. what i did was simply to show you and your audience the many directions that one can pull that article towards, so that they would protect themselves against such exploits in the future, and so that you yourself would refrain from using such tactics.
 

nonsense

Legendary Member
we all got the point you were making. you conveniently missed mine. so i will be frank and straight to the point like usual, since i do not snake my way to the truth. when you want to get the author's point across you do not highlight the things that suite you to forward your own perspective. what i did was simply to show you and your audience the many directions that one can pull that article towards, so that they would protect themselves against such exploits in the future, and so that you yourself would refrain from using such tactics.
One highlights as a service for people when their time is more limited, but oddly enough you see it as something negative.
Your conclusions however are not in line with the main point of the author*. So it is quite clear who of us is more exploitative of this article.

*Here's a hint from the articles' last lines.
Adel Kermiche was one of two men who murdered the old priest. He was born only a few months after the Tibherine monks were murdered. No connection, of course. But according to neighbours, Kermiche was born in Algeria. Now there’s a historical clue if anyone has the courage to search for it.
 
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Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
the dangerous part is that every reaction to these obscene act is simply being faced by annexing it to the "far right".. quite a misfortune, because this will only make the impact at the end of the end of this path much more violent.

I tried to make the argument that victimizing one group while ignoring the concerns of another is a sure way to make the latter fall in the hands of the far-right. To no avail.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
France mulls banning foreign financing for mosques


French Prime Minister Manuel Valls says an indefinite prohibition on foreign financing of mosques is under consideration amid predictions of more terror atrocities after the murder of a priest in a Normandy church by ISIS supporters.“This war, which does not only concern France, will be long and we will see more attacks,” he added. “But we will win, because France has a strategy to win this war. First we must crush the external enemy.”

The French government is under increasing criticism for failing to prevent the attack in Normandy when the security forces were warned that one of the killers was out and dangerous.

It's about time...
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
we all got the point you were making. you conveniently missed mine. so i will be frank and straight to the point like usual, since i do not snake my way to the truth. when you want to get the author's point across you do not highlight the things that suite you to forward your own perspective. what i did was simply to show you and your audience the many directions that one can pull that article towards, so that they would protect themselves against such exploits in the future, and so that you yourself would refrain from using such tactics.

Fisk is sometimes so ambiguous that you end up wondering which among multiple points he was trying to make. Perhaps he was trying to make multiple points at the same time ;)

The ending could well be a condemnation of Western foreign policy, as well as the history of Islamic violence (namely, in Algeria).

Bu people will stick to the part that's convenient to them, and ignore the rest.
 

JB81

Legendary Member

For every destructed church there is a 1000 reborn Christian. The Truth always prevails !!!The Church grows under persecution. This is our history from the times of our Lord till today.

France will sink deep down because it is away from the Lord, but it will reborn and becomes again the Daughter of the Church
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
They act more politically correct with the terrorists than they do with their own people. Disgusting.

They will have a long and bloody struggle with the terrorists but the thing is that when they will need God they won't find Him after they chased Him out of their cities and country.... History keeps repeating itself :)
 
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Silence

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
They will have a long and bloody struggle with the terrorists but the thing is that when they will need God they won't find Him after they chased Him out of their cities and country.... History keeps repeating itself :)
What we really need is a better secret service, an honest foreign policy in line with the founding principles of the French Republic not a NATO pawn one, and an internal policy not under the influence of the big corporations and the military industry, an efficient public service, a high level public national education (like it used to be) and the safeguard of freedom of speech and artistic creation. Those founding principles are the only "God" France needs...The other Gods are free to be worshiped and none should be able to jeopardize what generations of free thinkers achieved not the god of muslims or christians or jews...not even the god of Pokemons
 

sarhay

Well-Known Member
Machete-wielding man attacks 2 Belgian police officers

(CNN)A machete-wielding man shouting "Allahu Akbar" was shot and killed after wounding two police officers Saturday in the Belgian city of Charleroi, police said via Twitter.

The assault occurred outside a police station in the center of Charleroi, which is about 30 miles south of Brussels.
The armed man penetrated a secure zone and wounded the officers, who suffered deep cuts around their faces, according to Radio Télévision Belge Francophone (RTBF). One officer was transported to a hospital, the other was less seriously wounded.
The attacker was shot by a third officer on the scene and died later at a hospital, according to RTBF.
Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel, on Twitter, said he was closely monitoring the situation: "I condemn strongly the attack in Charleroi. My thoughts are with the victims, their relatives and police officers."
A security perimeter was set up around boulevard Pierre Mayence.
The Belgian capital has been on high alert after terror attacks killed 31 people in March. Two bombs exploded at the Brussels Airport, and a third went off at a metro station.
ISIS claimed responsibility for the bombings, which also wounded 300 people.
CNN's Simon Cullen in London and Alanne Orjoux and Merieme Arif in Atlanta contributed to this story.
 

eile

Well-Known Member
What we really need is a better secret service, an honest foreign policy in line with the founding principles of the French Republic not a NATO pawn one, and an internal policy not under the influence of the big corporations and the military industry, an efficient public service, a high level public national education (like it used to be) and the safeguard of freedom of speech and artistic creation. Those founding principles are the only "God" France needs...The other Gods are free to be worshiped and none should be able to jeopardize what generations of free thinkers achieved not the god of muslims or christians or jews...not even the god of Pokemons

what are they those founding principles? where are they themselves rooted? what are they based on? what is their reference or inspiration? assuming you'd dare point to one, is it contradictory? does it justify their opposite or non-existence just the same? if you are unable or unwilling to answer these questions then you are in no position to state what or how a civilized and progressive society is supposed to be, let alone offering alternatives to existing foundations or references. additionally using sarcasm in such a case it becomes pretty much ironical
 
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Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
what are they those founding principles? where are they themselves rooted? what are they based on? what is their reference or inspiration? assuming you'd dare point to one, is it contradictory? does it justify their opposite or non-existence just the same? if you are unable or unwilling to answer these questions then you are in no position to state what or how a civilized and progressive society is supposed to be, let alone offering alternatives to existing foundations or references. additionally using sarcasm in such a case becomes pretty much ironical
Liberté, égalité, fraternité to cut it short. You can also read Voltaire if you have more time. Religion is absolutely not part of the founding principles of the French Republic. France may be a traditional catholic country, the Republic is (annoyingly) fiercely non-(anti?) religious
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Liberté, égalité, fraternité to cut it short. You can also read Voltaire if you have more time. Religion is absolutely not part of the founding principles of the French Republic. France may be a traditional catholic country, the Republic is (annoyingly) fiercely non-(anti?) religious

Yes, but you can't deny that many of the laws in the West are based on ideas that are based on, among other sources, Christian values.
 
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