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France's Le Pen is visiting Lebanon on 19 February

JB81

Legendary Member
The problem isn't in wearing or removing the headscarf. The problem is in forcing others to abide by your way, whether that means wearing or removing the headscarf forcefully. Le Pen wants to forcefully remove it in France and Diryan wants to force women to wear it. Conservatism eats itself alive, my friend. The world doesn't work without compromise.

PS. I don't care about Macron or French politics or France in general. I don't even watch French football, given that I'm addicted to the sport.

What does conservatism have to do with France banning scarf as a religious symbol as it is seen contrary to its secular principles?

If one to be blame for banning scarf is the ultra secularism of France; it is the far left anti-religions who are pushing and oppressing people of religion by censoring their right of expression. Contrary, I believe most conservatives don't mind Muslim women wearing hijab; its her choice. Religious symbols should be protected as part of Freedom of Expression. French secularists have gone little far. Everything in moderation is good
 

hola!

Member
you have Le Pen, who hypocritically wants people to conform to her culture in France while refuses to do the same in other countries.
ManOhManOhMano...

Are you comparing Marine's visit as a public figure to a stinking clergyman (regardless of his religion) who dictates his own retarded rules, comparing her to refugees seeking survival and shelter in sovereign nations? What would you do if you were in her shoes? I would do exactly the same: LEAVE! And that's exactly what the refugees need to do if they don't like the rules and traditions of the host country: LEAVE! Yet you're calling her a hypocrite? I've known you making better judgments than that. What's happening to you brother?

Clinton never wore veils in Saudi Arabia,

Are you sure about that?
Here again. I'm shocked by now, you are not aware of the fact that the Clinton's have a price for everything...
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
[article]


خاص لبنان الجديد
أصابت إمرأة وأخطأ عمر، وأصابت إمرأة وأخطأ سماحة المفتي
د. أحمد خواجة | 22 شباط 2017 22 شباط 2017 22 شباط 2017


NewLebanon
شارك هذا الموضوع





الشرق الأوسط الجديد الأميركي بمواجهة الشرق الأوسط الإسلامي الإيراني

ثانيا: أصابت لوبان وأخطأ سماحة المفتي

لوبان المرشّحة اليمينية المتطرفة، التي تكره المسلمين والمُلوّنين والمُستضعفين واللاجئين، وسائر خلق الله المسحوقين والبائسين والمشرّدين، وطالبي اللجوء لحضن الدولة الفرنسية، والتي تُجاهر بذلك صُبح مساء، وتُستقبل في لبنان من أعلى المستويات، وتتبجح بدعم ديكتاتور القرن الواحد والعشرين بشار الأسد، فلرُبّما سارت على خطاه إذا قُيّض لها وصارت رئيسة الجمهورية الفرنسية.

ومع ذلك تقبّل اللبنانيون هذه الزيارة، وابتلعوا مرارتها ، أمّا أن يُعطيها سماحة مفتي الجمهورية اللبنانية موعداً وإذناً لاستقبالها ،فهذا لعمري العجب العُجاب، فما الذي رآه سماحة المفتي دريان في شخصية لوبان وسيرتها "العطرة" في التحريض على المسلمين خاصةً وسائر شعوب الأرض عامة، ليقبل زيارتها له، وهي التي صرّحت على باب القصر الجمهوري بأنّها بحثت مع الرئيس اللبناني مخاطر الإسلام المتطرف، والمعروف أنّ لوبان تستعشر منذ زمنٍ طويل مخاطر الإسلام، ولا تُفرّق بين متطرفٍ ومعتدل ومُسالم.

والمفارقة الكبرى حصلت على باب المفتي، فقد رفضت ارتداء غطاء الرأس، وظلّت وفيّةً لمبادئها ومعتقداتها، فماذا يعني غطاءً تضعُه كُرمى لعين المفتي لتنزعهُ بعد ذلك! وهي تمقُتُهُ أصلاً، وتزدري رمزيّته، ووقفت بصلابة "المتطرّفين" رافضةً الخضوع والامتثال، وألغت لقاء المفتي، الذي أصرّ على إحترام البرتوكول، لا على إحترام الشعائر التي كانت تقتضي عدم إستقبال النائبة اليمينية المتطرفة، المعادية للبشر عامة والمسلمين خاصة.
مرةً أخرى، أصابت إمرأة على باب المفتي، وأخطأ سماحة المفتي.

[/article]
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
What does conservatism have to do with France banning scarf as a religious symbol as it is seen contrary to its secular principles?

If one to be blame for banning scarf is the ultra secularism of France; it is the far left anti-religions who are pushing and oppressing people of religion by censoring their right of expression. Contrary, I believe most conservatives don't mind Muslim women wearing hijab; its her choice. Religious symbols should be protected as part of Freedom of Expression. French secularists have gone little far. Everything in moderation is good
Most libertarian yes, most conservatives I find that hard to believe. If elections showed anything is that conservatives, especially evangelicals, only care about their own narrow understanding of freedom of religion.
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Most libertarian yes, most conservatives I find that hard to believe. If elections showed anything is that conservatives, especially evangelicals, only care about their own narrow understanding of freedom of religion.

The problem resides in classification of the conservatives; it is a wide spectrum. That's why I believe it's hard to say conservatives are against hijab.

But If we are to speak of France, Christians are as victims as their Muslim counterpart of the progressive secular state. So, it is sure that no conservative "Christian " was behind the banning, since it banned the cross too. It doesn't make sense that one bans himself in order to ban the other. Nkeyeh bjareh bshekh bshenteneh.

So the scarf banning came from far left secularists; and Le Pen as I believe is not a conservative. She is a nationalist but secular. Nationalist is not necessary conservative. Many Nationalists are actually atheist liberals. Fillon,in other hand, may have conservative leanings.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
The problem resides in classification of the conservatives; it is a wide spectrum. That's why I believe it's hard to say conservatives are against hijab.
That's why I excluded libertarian out of the pack, but in no way are they a monolithic uniform bloc.
But If we are to speak of France, Christians are as victims as their Muslim counterpart of the progressive secular state. So, it is sure that no conservative "Christian " was behind the banning, since it banned the cross too. It doesn't make sense that one bans himself in order to ban the other. Nkeyeh bjareh bshekh bshenteneh.

So the scarf banning came from far left secularists; and Le Pen as I believe is not a conservative. She is a nationalist but secular. Nationalist is not necessary conservative. Many Nationalists are actually atheist liberals. Fillon,in other hand, may have conservative leanings.
Lepen who is on the far right was a fervent advocate on the hijab ban, and FYI she is a catholic.
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Lepen who is on the far right was a fervent advocate on the hijab ban, and FYI she is a catholic.

Again, we might be lost by classifications. Does a far right means conservative? Take an example of Richard Spencer. He is an alt right, yet he is a liberal atheist one can be.

Le Pen does not promote Catholic values. She always speak of French secular values. Her support ban is derived from her secular principles rather than her alleged Catholic "conservatism". If correct, the Catholic church does not approve on the hijab ban.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
That's why I excluded libertarian out of the pack, but in no way are they a monolithic uniform bloc.

Lepen who is on the far right was a fervent advocate on the hijab ban, and FYI she is a catholic.

she can be Catholic, liberal and secular. in fact it seems to me that only Catholics are more secular and liberal than most these days; the fact that she is a nationalist does not contradict withe neither progressive liberalism, nor with secularism. unless we have different definitions for liberalism. but when you stick to the actual political definition

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasises the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality, and international cooperation.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]
all of the above is embraced by Christianity and Catholicism, Le Pen is only in disagreement with the international cooperation part, cause the french people are finding themselves to be on the losing end of this sort of cooperation.

do you hold another definition for liberalism or progressive liberalism?
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Again, we might be lost by classifications. Does a far right means conservative? Take an example of Richard Spencer. He is an alt right, yet he is a liberal atheist one can be.

Le Pen does not promote Catholic values. She always speak of French secular values. Her support ban is derived from her secular principles rather than her alleged Catholic "conservatism". If correct, the Catholic church does not approve on the hijab ban.
My comment was to point out that she was a principal actress and she clearly is not a far-left secularist. In addition, Fillon who you yourself called a conservative was at the time of the hijab ban Education Minister and member of the UMP who championed the whole thing. He too is not a far left secularists.

For the record, I am not for a ban on religious symbols and find it ridiculous in a wide majority of cases.
 
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CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
she can be Catholic, liberal and secular. in fact it seems to me that only Catholics are more secular and liberal than most these days; the fact that she is a nationalist does not contradict withe neither progressive liberalism, nor with secularism. unless we have different definitions for liberalism. but when you stick to the actual political definition

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasises the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality, and international cooperation.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]
all of the above is embraced by Christianity and Catholicism, Le Pen is only in disagreement with the international cooperation part, cause the french people are finding themselves to be on the losing end of this sort of cooperation.

do you hold another definition for liberalism or progressive liberalism?
I only mentioned her faith so we don't go down the road of her being some sort of a-religious person that's all. I know atheism is different from secularism which is not what I was alluding to. I for one can be considered catholic, liberal and secular. I should have known you were going to jump on it and elaborated. ;)
 

Lebanese-Nationalist

Well-Known Member
They may not do it if you're going in without a visa (because the agent on the border doesn't really go into that). Once you have a visa though (to study or an H1-B to work), they do a more thorough research and then force you to register, which then triggers this every time you come back.

Maybe, I wouldn't know how it works with an H1-B visa.

All I know is that my passport states born in Tripoli, Lebanon. I have multiple entry stamps for Lebanon and an Iraqi visa. Haven't had any trouble but I feel like my luck might soon run out.
 

HannaTheCrusader

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Marine Le Pen, French National Front (FN) political party leader and candidate for French 2017 presidential election, rejects a headscarf for her meeting Lebanon's Grand Mufti Sheikh Abed el-Lateef Daryan in Beirut, Lebanon February 21, 2017. REUTERS/Aziz Taher
Le Pen Attracts Millions Of French Women With Anti-Immigration Agenda

JACOB BOJESSON
Fo


French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen is becoming increasingly popular among women, a key demographic for her chances in April’s election.

The populist National Front leader has gained support from two million more women compared to the last election in 2012, according to Bloomberg. Women are far less likely to cast a vote in April’s election compared to men, which makes the gains vital in a tight race.

“Women are the key,” Nonna Meyer, a researcher at the Sciences Po institute in Paris who has studied the National Front for 25 years, told Bloomberg. “These women often abstain and now they are backing Le Pen to protect their jobs and their security.”

Le Pen received support from 17 percent of women voters in 2012 and 20 percent of the men. She’s now backed by 26 percent of likely voters from both sexes.
 

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Maybe, I wouldn't know how it works with an H1-B visa.

All I know is that my passport states born in Tripoli, Lebanon. I have multiple entry stamps for Lebanon and an Iraqi visa. Haven't had any trouble but I feel like my luck might soon run out.
Just make sure you don't apply to an American visa (student, spouse, whatever)
 

Random

Well-Known Member
from the looks of it hollande messed it up big time for the socialists in france, so macron is now the left's only hope, camouflaged as the beloved independent of the press and the media. but i doubt he is going to make it to the second round. it seems it will be fillon vs le pen, and her chances are improving against him, now she's standing at 44% vs 56%, according to the media polls that is, so who knows what the real numbers may be.
Macron and left in the same sentence is pretty much the biggest joke I've heard in 2017 so far.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Marine Le Pen, French National Front (FN) political party leader and candidate for French 2017 presidential election, rejects a headscarf for her meeting Lebanon's Grand Mufti Sheikh Abed el-Lateef Daryan in Beirut, Lebanon February 21, 2017. REUTERS/Aziz Taher
Le Pen Attracts Millions Of French Women With Anti-Immigration Agenda

JACOB BOJESSON
Fo


French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen is becoming increasingly popular among women, a key demographic for her chances in April’s election.

The populist National Front leader has gained support from two million more women compared to the last election in 2012, according to Bloomberg. Women are far less likely to cast a vote in April’s election compared to men, which makes the gains vital in a tight race.

“Women are the key,” Nonna Meyer, a researcher at the Sciences Po institute in Paris who has studied the National Front for 25 years, told Bloomberg. “These women often abstain and now they are backing Le Pen to protect their jobs and their security.”

Le Pen received support from 17 percent of women voters in 2012 and 20 percent of the men. She’s now backed by 26 percent of likely voters from both sexes.

The hijab show that she did in the Lebanese Dar al Ifta2 would get her few more million women voters!

BTW, where are the anti-Trump-like feminist marches and protests supporting this female candidate? Walla the hypocrite media and the march organizers such as Soros and his leftist friends think that French women deserve less than American women?!?!? Hillary is no better than Marine :troll::troll: LOL
 
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