freedom of speech or illegal speech?

kappa273

kappa273

Well-Known Member
from al-akhbar english, oct 17, 2011

Lebanese Concert Promoter Sues BDS Activists


Lebanese anti-Israel activists are being sued by a concert promoter for their boycott campaign against a popular British rock group.

Samah Idriss, director of Dar al-Adab publishing house, received a court summons this Thursday from Beirut's commerce court. Idriss is implicated in a lawsuit for his involvement in a Lebanese boycott campaign against the British rock group Placebo last year. Jihad el-Murr, who heads the company that organized the event, filed the suit on 10 July 2011.

El-Murr is suing Idriss, as well as three other groups involved in the campaign: the Aidoun Refugee Rights Center, the Campaign to Boycott the Supporters of Israel in Lebanon, and the Global BDS Campaign in Lebanon. El-Murr, a self-described famous businessman from a prominent family, is demanding US$180,000 compensation for his company’s financial losses allegedly caused by the boycott campaign.

Lebanese activists called for the boycott in protest of Placebo's performance in Tel Aviv four days before their concert in Beirut, that was scheduled for 9 June 2010 at the Forum de Beirut. Only in July 2011, a year after the event took place, did el-Murr notice the ‘financial losses’ he claims were caused by the campaign. He called the campaign against cultural normalization with Israel both “malicious and deceptive.” El-Murr argues that the 1955 Lebanese law supporting a limited boycott of Israel does not apply to the Placebo concert. “The famous rock band does not even deal with politics,” he added.

Idriss, who is also editor-in-chief of al-Adab magazine, offered an alternate perspective on the validity of boycotting groups like Placebo. “The band performed in Tel Aviv shortly after the offensive against the Mavi Marmara flotilla. This is a blatant disregard to the crimes committed by the [Israeli] occupation.” He continued, “If we choose to adopt the same logic as that of the plaintiff, we can say that the band’s concert in Israel, which was attended by 7,000 people, brought over US$3 million to the Israeli organizers and Israeli tourism. Hence, artists who perform in Israel not only participate in whitewashing the crimes of the Zionist entity, they also provide financial revenues to Israel. The cultural, artistic, and academic boycotts of Israel do not only serve to morally expose Israeli crimes; they also represent an effort to reduce financial support for Israel.”

Idriss discussed the Placebo action within the broader climate of activism. “The boycott against Placebo’s performance in Lebanon came in light of the growing victories of the global BDS campaigns. International artists, such as Carlos Santana, Elvis Costello, and the Gorillaz, have followed BDS calls.” El-Murr seems more concerned with his company’s financial losses, amounting to a few thousand dollars, than with the politics. In contrast, stars such as Roger Waters of Pink Floyd have rejected playing high-budget performances in Israel that help conceal Israel's apartheid image. As soon as news about the lawsuit spread, writers, intellectuals, and artists announced they stand in solidarity with Idriss and his friends. One such letter of support came from Lebanese writer and public intellectual Elias Khoury, who wrote to Idriss, “We stand by you in this battle.”

This article is an edited translation from the Arabic Edition.


now regardless of whether you like jihad el-murr or not, do u think his lawsuit stands ground?
 
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  • The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    from al-akhbar english, oct 17, 2011

    Lebanese Concert Promoter Sues BDS Activists


    Lebanese anti-Israel activists are being sued by a concert promoter for their boycott campaign against a popular British rock group.

    Samah Idriss, director of Dar al-Adab publishing house, received a court summons this Thursday from Beirut's commerce court. Idriss is implicated in a lawsuit for his involvement in a Lebanese boycott campaign against the British rock group Placebo last year. Jihad el-Murr, who heads the company that organized the event, filed the suit on 10 July 2011.

    El-Murr is suing Idriss, as well as three other groups involved in the campaign: the Aidoun Refugee Rights Center, the Campaign to Boycott the Supporters of Israel in Lebanon, and the Global BDS Campaign in Lebanon. El-Murr, a self-described famous businessman from a prominent family, is demanding US$180,000 compensation for his company’s financial losses allegedly caused by the boycott campaign.

    Lebanese activists called for the boycott in protest of Placebo's performance in Tel Aviv four days before their concert in Beirut, that was scheduled for 9 June 2010 at the Forum de Beirut. Only in July 2011, a year after the event took place, did el-Murr notice the ‘financial losses’ he claims were caused by the campaign. He called the campaign against cultural normalization with Israel both “malicious and deceptive.” El-Murr argues that the 1955 Lebanese law supporting a limited boycott of Israel does not apply to the Placebo concert. “The famous rock band does not even deal with politics,” he added.

    Idriss, who is also editor-in-chief of al-Adab magazine, offered an alternate perspective on the validity of boycotting groups like Placebo. “The band performed in Tel Aviv shortly after the offensive against the Mavi Marmara flotilla. This is a blatant disregard to the crimes committed by the [Israeli] occupation.” He continued, “If we choose to adopt the same logic as that of the plaintiff, we can say that the band’s concert in Israel, which was attended by 7,000 people, brought over US$3 million to the Israeli organizers and Israeli tourism. Hence, artists who perform in Israel not only participate in whitewashing the crimes of the Zionist entity, they also provide financial revenues to Israel. The cultural, artistic, and academic boycotts of Israel do not only serve to morally expose Israeli crimes; they also represent an effort to reduce financial support for Israel.”

    Idriss discussed the Placebo action within the broader climate of activism. “The boycott against Placebo’s performance in Lebanon came in light of the growing victories of the global BDS campaigns. International artists, such as Carlos Santana, Elvis Costello, and the Gorillaz, have followed BDS calls.” El-Murr seems more concerned with his company’s financial losses, amounting to a few thousand dollars, than with the politics. In contrast, stars such as Roger Waters of Pink Floyd have rejected playing high-budget performances in Israel that help conceal Israel's apartheid image. As soon as news about the lawsuit spread, writers, intellectuals, and artists announced they stand in solidarity with Idriss and his friends. One such letter of support came from Lebanese writer and public intellectual Elias Khoury, who wrote to Idriss, “We stand by you in this battle.”

    This article is an edited translation from the Arabic Edition.


    now regardless of whether you like jihad el-murr or not, do u think his lawsuit stands ground?
    Well, in terms of freedom of speech, Mr. Idriss is covered, as any person can boycott or call for the boycott of anything, irrelevant of the reason.

    However, in terms of logic, Mr. Idriss needs to look again at what he said.
    Because of Placebo generated 3 million $ to Israel through their concert, it also generated a lot of money to Lebanon through its concert.
    Mr. Idriss wanted Israel to benefit from the money and Lebanon not to have any of it.

    As for Jihad el Murr, I believe that the lawsuit stands, especially if the boycott resulted in financial losses.
    After all, should we boycott or call for the boycott of anything that we don't like without expecting any repercussions?

    Mr. Idriss has the right to boycott and Jihad el Murr has the right to sue.

    However, I would recommend that a strong group allies to stop the likes of Mr. Idriss who enjoy showing Lebanon as backwards country, by asking for the boycott of whichever person who pronounced the word Israel.
    Or, others who push for the ban of movies, books, songs that may annoy a couple of religious figures.

    They can talk as much as they want, but others should also be able to talk back.
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    Didn't the concert go through? In this case I don't think the lawsuit will stand.

    Another lawsuit that might stand is from the person who wanted to bring Gad el-Maleh to Lebanon, against al-Manar, who scared the guy off by accusing him of being an Israeli soldier!
     
    johnnyFPM

    johnnyFPM

    Legendary Member
    Well, in terms of freedom of speech, Mr. Idriss is covered, as any person can boycott or call for the boycott of anything, irrelevant of the reason.

    However, in terms of logic, Mr. Idriss needs to look again at what he said.
    Because of Placebo generated 3 million $ to Israel through their concert, it also generated a lot of money to Lebanon through its concert.
    Mr. Idriss wanted Israel to benefit from the money and Lebanon not to have any of it.

    As for Jihad el Murr, I believe that the lawsuit stands, especially if the boycott resulted in financial losses.
    After all, should we boycott or call for the boycott of anything that we don't like without expecting any repercussions?

    Mr. Idriss has the right to boycott and Jihad el Murr has the right to sue.

    However, I would recommend that a strong group allies to stop the likes of Mr. Idriss who enjoy showing Lebanon as backwards country, by asking for the boycott of whichever person who pronounced the word Israel.
    Or, others who push for the ban of movies, books, songs that may annoy a couple of religious figures.

    They can talk as much as they want, but others should also be able to talk back.
    I have to disagree with the Jihad el Murr part: he can't sue anyone, since a call for boycott is no way forced on people. The boycotters did not close the roads leading to the concerts, they didn't force the people not to buy their tickets, etc. It's just a call for boycott. The same way I would call for boycott if Britney Spears performs in Lebanon. Not because she's pro-Israeli, but because her music is torture to the ears :D

    Moreover, you can't compare boycott to censorship. Again, because boycotting doesn't force anyone to abide by it, whereas censorship is forced on people.

    Finally, let's get out of that "bourgeois" state of mind (when you say "the likes of Mr. Idriss who enjoy showing Lebanon as backwards country") because guess what: for a lambda citizen (whether Lebanese or not), this call for boycott can make sense (non-bourgeois people tend to have or at least understand dignity).

    Anyways, this is a useless topic. Jihad el Murr just needs money, he's broke and this lawsuit is an easy way of trying to get some cash. I personally don't think he'll succeed, as it does not stand from a legal point of view.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Can someone scare the Murrs off maybe beza7to w mnerte7
    nobody stopped Placebo from coming,many other groups came to Lebanon and went to Israel as well ...Jiyad (not Jihad because it sounds terroristic Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More ) can go play with tonton michel in Bteghrine

    check this also Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More
    this ( jyad ) how will he explain his anger towards ( jihad) to his allies in 14 shbatt ??

    he has all the right to change his name, but will his allies ever accept his own freedom of speech ? ( jyad is lucky ) lebanon is not a qandahar yet :)
     
    Hameed

    Hameed

    Well-Known Member
    Didn't the concert go through? In this case I don't think the lawsuit will stand.

    Another lawsuit that might stand is from the person who wanted to bring Gad el-Maleh to Lebanon, against al-Manar, who scared the guy off by accusing him of being an Israeli soldier!
    Gad (not Jad becoz he is jew) el Male7's case is different, he is an israeli !! and he served in the israeli army, that means he isn't welcome at all !! and should be apprehended too if he enters Lebanon and La ****** iza btez3al noura zeblatt.

    Placebo's case is different and yes boycotting the band is not a good thing but I don't think the band got boycotted, however since he's a member of Al-Murr family ( NOT a prominent one, just another mafia gang ), hek hek falteneh, he wants to do some shoplifting, shuwayet Zeeroz in the bank account ma byeshko min shi ... yalla
     
    elias-aj

    elias-aj

    Legendary Member
    So long as it's a call for boycott - for whatever reason (political or even because they don't like the music etc.) - this action doesn't stand ground. It's like suing a journalist who wrote a bad critique on a music album or a book, even on the quality of the food served in some restaurants...

    Had the said activists tried to prevent people from reaching the concert hall and/or threatened people etc., the solution would have been different (but it would have been a criminal case and not a civil one).
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    Gad (not Jad becoz he is jew) el Male7's case is different, he is an israeli !! and he served in the israeli army, that means he isn't welcome at all !! and should be apprehended too if he enters Lebanon and La ****** iza btez3al noura zeblatt.

    Placebo's case is different and yes boycotting the band is not a good thing but I don't think the band got boycotted, however since he's a member of Al-Murr family ( NOT a prominent one, just another mafia gang ), hek hek falteneh, he wants to do some shoplifting, shuwayet Zeeroz in the bank account ma byeshko min shi ... yalla
    Gad el Maleh is not Israeli (he's Moroccan) and never served in its army. Al Manar simply found a picture of a lookalike on the internet... That's it!
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    anyone can boycott whatever they want... though in this case i think it was a silly cause (Pepsi sells in Israel and benefits the Israeli economy, should we therefore boycott it? so do millions of everyday brands...)... the Murr dude has the right to sue for losses by arguing the boycott has no grounds and/or was done with the intent to hurt his business, but the fact that he is 1 year late sheds shadows of doubt about his motives... i dont trust Mr. Murr's motives at all.
     
    Hameed

    Hameed

    Well-Known Member
    Gad el Maleh is not Israeli (he's Moroccan) and never served in its army. Al Manar simply found a picture of a lookalike on the internet... That's it!
    he's already exposed too late to explain the situation .... do some more research. Bass bi hayda el balad m3awadeen noslob el masee7 wou entalee3 barabas baree2
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    So long as it's a call for boycott - for whatever reason (political or even because they don't like the music etc.) - this action doesn't stand ground. It's like suing a journalist who wrote a bad critique on a music album or a book, even on the quality of the food served in some restaurants...

    Had the said activists tried to prevent people from reaching the concert hall and/or threatened people etc., the solution would have been different (but it would have been a criminal case and not a civil one).
    I concur with that 100 percent.
     
    Shuyu3i

    Shuyu3i

    New Member
    In Lebanon as Salim El Hoss once said to much freedom and not enough democracy. We ban things left right and centre.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    I have to disagree with the Jihad el Murr part: he can't sue anyone, since a call for boycott is no way forced on people. The boycotters did not close the roads leading to the concerts, they didn't force the people not to buy their tickets, etc. It's just a call for boycott. The same way I would call for boycott if Britney Spears performs in Lebanon. Not because she's pro-Israeli, but because her music is torture to the ears :D

    Moreover, you can't compare boycott to censorship. Again, because boycotting doesn't force anyone to abide by it, whereas censorship is forced on people.

    Finally, let's get out of that "bourgeois" state of mind (when you say "the likes of Mr. Idriss who enjoy showing Lebanon as backwards country") because guess what: for a lambda citizen (whether Lebanese or not), this call for boycott can make sense (non-bourgeois people tend to have or at least understand dignity).
    Anyways, this is a useless topic. Jihad el Murr just needs money, he's broke and this lawsuit is an easy way of trying to get some cash. I personally don't think he'll succeed, as it does not stand from a legal point of view.
    Woow, so now it's bourgeois to have a little bit of culture and openness ?

    And if you have this openness you have less dignity?

    The likes of Mr. Idriss are people who wanted Gad el Maleh out of Lebanon, they pushed to ban movies criticizing Iran, KSA, the church.

    They pushed to ban books who mention the name of Israel !!!

    And to say that anyone who opposes these views doesn't have any dignity is revolting.

    I guess in our country, less education and more ignorance are synonymous to more patriotism.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    he's already exposed too late to explain the situation .... do some more research. Bass bi hayda el balad m3awadeen noslob el masee7 wou entalee3 barabas baree2
    He was in Lebanon the year before, I wonder how come a party that has an intelligence service all the way up to the Mossad didn't discover this before!!

    Ba3den, if they had a case, they would've went to court for allowing the country to go through with it.
    All they had was a picture and some fairytale story they broadcasted on TV.

    You should watch less Al Manar and use google much more often !
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Unless the case claims and can prove malicious defamation that caused injury.
    Defamation is a different kind of claims. But I didn't see anyone claiming defamation. Besides, defamation is a penal kind of claims that is pursued before penal courts. While the action depicted in the article above, is being pursued before a commercial court. Which by the way, is in my opinion a procedural error that the defense will undoubtedly raise, and the action will probably be deferred to a civil court because the conflict has a civil nature not a commercial one.

    Anyway, this action will live for probably longer than its involved conflicting Parties. So we'll ultimately leave it to our children, and maybe to our grandchildren to know the outcome.

    I'm not sure I care enough, or even if I'll be there long enough, to follow it up that long. I even think that the Arab-Israeli conflict will be over by then.
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    Defamation is a different kind of claims. But I didn't see anyone claiming defamation. Besides, defamation is a penal kind of claims that is pursued before penal courts. While the action depicted in the article above, is being pursued before a commercial court. Which by the way, is in my opinion a procedural error that the defense will undoubtedly raise, and the action will probably be deferred to a civil court because the conflict has a civil nature not a commercial one.

    Anyway, this action will live for probably longer than its involved conflicting Parties. So we'll ultimately leave it to our children, and maybe to our grandchildren to know the outcome.

    I'm not sure I care enough, or even if I'll be there long enough, to follow it up that long. I even think that the Arab-Israeli conflict will be over by then.
    I do not know what the claims are, the article didnt include any details. In my opinion defamation is the only valid basis for the lawsuit, and if it is based on that I think it may have merit.
     
    mickey117

    mickey117

    Legendary Member
    For the judge to grant the guy reparation he'll need to prove three things:

    The Damage
    The Illicit act
    The Link between the damage and the illicit act.


    The problem here is that boycotting is not an illicit act, so the case shouldn't stand, but they could always find a loophole somewhere that might change things.
     
    Hameed

    Hameed

    Well-Known Member
    He was in Lebanon the year before, I wonder how come a party that has an intelligence service all the way up to the Mossad didn't discover this before!!
    []

    Let's be rational here, Hizbollah is an organization not a country for heaven's sake and their focus is primarily on israel. So it takes time to investigate someone, especially if they were invited by people who happen to be the heads of their sect and who use it ( their sect ) as a line of defense to defend their dirty work.

    Ba3den, if they had a case, they would've went to court for allowing the country to go through with it. All they had was a picture and some fairytale story they broadcasted on TV.
    You should watch less Al Manar and use google much more often !
    pathetic really, what court is that? can you remind me ?! that same court who's holding Feyez Karam now?! would you trust it ?!

    The mistake that Hizbollah did really, was not letting him enter Lebanon !! They should have then apprehend him and switch him with Arab prisoners held in occupied Palestine
     
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