France Fusillade à strasbourg : 2 morts et 11 blessés en urgence absolue, la «piste terroriste évoquée»

[Dark Angel]

You did not claim this will solve the issue. In fact, you don't seem to care about solving the issue, since you started berating @Dark Angel when he proposed a solution to the issue, and claimed all you care about is to see this one guy behind bars.

Your exact words:

these are automated replies, a few accusation of racism along with a few labels without much thought. these people think that the world is a good place by default, and that nothing is required to safeguard it and make it better. it is fine, it is not my business to educate them, except that their actions are effectively contributing to further eroding the foundation that we all stand upon, and when it all crumbles, it will be on our heads as well, and that's where they should understand that they can commit suicide on their own if they so blindly want to do so without implicating civilization as a whole in their acts of nihilism.

 

[Mrsrx]

This guy, and others like him, disprove the myth that all immigrants integrate over time. Yet, you have people, including you, who want the existing immigration system to continue, as is. You have people, including you, claiming that the culture and religion of immigrants don't matter.

If Europe needs immigrants so badly, get them from countries whose culture does not pose a threat to the Europeans. There are plenty of immigrants who integrate perfectly well, while practicing and sharing their culture of origin, peacefully.

As for the immigrants who are already in Europe, if they have another citizenship, send them back home. If they are born in the country, and are fiché S like this guy, don't let them roam free among unsuspecting people. Find all the sources of islamist indoctrination, and shut them down. If mosques have to be shut down, do it. If they call you a racist, let them. Tell them to go live in an islamist country if they're not happy.

The solutions are many.

And who said all immigrants integrate? have i?
What if the countries where they do "integrate easily" do not want to come?
Fiché S does that mean that there is anything proven on the person? and is it only for extreme reasons? and how many people do we need to follow meaning how many fiché S?
If they have the french nationality and another kick them out? what if one of their parents is blonde and 100% french?

 

[CitizenOfTheRepublic]

see where the root of the problem is? you claim that my position is very clear, and then you go about retaliating about a position that does not resemble mine at all. not sure whether you are just assuming a position and trying to forcefully call it mine or you miss my point on purpose.

Honestly it wasn't directed at you. Maybe tangentially, but you really have to push the definition of tangent

the point i am making is simple, pushing and pressuring for unconditional immigration will fill europe and the united states with the trash from all over the world, while in reality it should be a privilege awarded only to the decent folks who deserve it. it is EXTREMELY surprising, how anyone could push, pressure, and argue for anything that is different from that. perplexing, to say the least. unless you intentionally wish to destroy the host countries, which is a completely different story then.

See now you make me want to change my mind and say I did direct it at you. How exactly did you reach the conclusion that I am for unconditional immigration? Perhaps because you see me as a "multiculturalist leftist"? Or am I misunderstanding you somehow here?

 

[Dark Angel]

cause its done by the religion of peace
so they shut up

they are their allies

left and islam are the new alliance

it is not new, that is how it has always been my friend. be2e fi yassare bi lebnen ma nezel ma3 el flastini ta y7ereb el fashistiyi el massi7iyi? dmegh ma byefroz.. w shouf el natije.. sar lebnen kello sawa majrour.

 

[Indie]

And who said all immigrants integrate? have i?
What if the countries where they do "integrate easily" do not want to come?
Fiché S does that mean that there is anything proven on the person? and is it only for extreme reasons? and how many people do we need to follow meaning how many fiché S?
If they have the french nationality and another kick them out? what if one of their parents is blonde and 100% french?

You are clutching at straws:

- Immigrants from countries who integrate well do want to move to the West, don't worry. Along with this solution, Westerners should increase their own populations, and stop believing in the leftist / feminist / neo-marxist lie that having more than one or two kids is a burden. They need to get their priorities straight.

- "In France, a fiche "S" (English: "S" card) is an indicator used by law enforcement to flag an individual considered to be a serious threat to national security. The "S" stands for Sûreté de l'État ("state security"). It is the highest level of such a warning in France; it allows surveillance but is not cause for arrest. There have been some 400,000 individuals assigned a fiche "S" since 1969."
Fiche - Wikipedia"S"

- As for your last point, I already made clear that the true solutions are preventive: meaning all sources of islamism should be shut down. No excuses. It should be clear as day to everyone that islamism is not welcomed in Europe.

People should understand that immigration is a privilege. If they want to live as devout Muslims or islamists, they should stay where they are or move to a Muslim country.

 

[Mrsrx]

- "In France, a fiche "S" (English: "S" card) is an indicator used by law enforcement to flag an individual considered to be a serious threat to national security. The "S" stands for Sûreté de l'État ("state security"). It is the highest level of such a warning in France; it allows surveillance but is not cause for arrest. There have been some 400,000 individuals assigned a fiche "S" since 1969."
Fiche - Wikipedia"S"

I can wikipedia as well and i know exactly the answer and the number of people in it ....i live in the country and that is not a viable solution. Was not asking you to check on wikipedia i was asking how would you put them all under surveillance and at what cost? this is a response from the DGSI (you can find this on wikipedia aswell) ...straightforward boots on the ground answers please.

- Immigrants from countries who integrate well do want to move to the West, don't worry. Along with this solution, Westerners should increase their own populations, and stop believing in the leftist / feminist / neo-marxist lie that having more than one or two kids is a burden. They need to get their priorities straight.

Can you tell me how we can do that in the short term? tell me the countries that we should accept people from?

- As for your last point, I already made clear that the true solutions are preventive: meaning all sources of islamism should be shut down. No excuses. It should be clear as day to everyone that islamism is not welcomed in Europe.

So what do we do with a guy that is half french? this is not a clear answer? theories are easy i want hard actions.

Then lets say we closed all doors....how do we prevent a new ISIS ? we create a world segregation waiting for the big cleasing war and the day of reckoning?

 

[Nonan]

Gharib kif most of your contribution is bashing others instead of sticking to thread topic!

Even you didn't comment on the massacre , your only comment is wait and see they're going to say islam is a religion of peace! And this precious gem right here!

What do you suggest people do in the face of such threats? Round up all Muslims and send them to an island? Oh wait yeah you do think that's a good idea!

A deranged extremist nutjob killed a bunch of people and wounded others, France has declared a state of emergency following this occurrence and the rest of us are checking the news instead of writing useless comments, maybe you should try that!

It’s always the same comments from the same people (who, for the vast majority don’t live in France and are not French). They just use this opportunity to express their hate for Islam and Muslims, regardless of what happened.
My problem with the situation, as I understood it, is that the guy is 29 and has 27 “convictions”. Let’s assume he started at 16, that’s over 2 per year. How the hell was he not serving a life sentence. I know justice is too lax in France (be it with terrorists, with casseurs, or with violent demonstrators who block roads and degrade property). But this goes beyond what is understandable.
That is the root of the problem. Without becoming a police state, justice has to become more severe, for all illegal activities...

 

[Mrsrx]

My problem with the situation, as I understood it, is that the guy is 29 and has 27 “convictions”. Let’s assume he started at 16, that’s over 2 per year. How the hell was he not serving a life sentence. I know justice is too lax in France (be it with terrorists, with casseurs, or with violent demonstrators who block roads and degrade property).

Thank you! Exactly my reaction today when talking to a coworker!
But maybe its a blessing in disguise as most get out of prison worse than they came in ...a thief comes out an extremist!
This needs to be resolved in French prisons as most problems have their sources in prison (that people who do not know anything about france fail to understand!)

 

[Indie]

I can wikipedia as well and i know exactly the answer and the number of people in it ....i live in the country and that is not a viable solution. Was not asking you to check on wikipedia i was asking how would you put them all under surveillance and at what cost? this is a response from the DGSI (you can find this on wikipedia aswell) ...straightforward boots on the ground answers please.

Can you tell me how we can do that in the short term? tell me the countries that we should accept people from?


So what do we do with a guy that is half french? this is not a clear answer? theories are easy i want hard actions.

Then lets say we closed all doors....how do we prevent a new ISIS ? we create a world segregation waiting for the big cleasing war and the day of reckoning?

Your arguments make no sense! Use your logic. If the current immigration system got us to this point; then, clearly, changing the current system will prevent more of such people entering Europe!

If you can't do anything more about a current fiché S, you can surely prevent more potential terrorists from entering the country, and lessen the probability of terrorist attacks!

You can shut down indoctrination centers and lessen the probability of youths becoming terrorists!

Enough with your "short term" arguments. It's useless to bring in immigrants to supposedly improve the economy, short term, if you're going to lose your country, culture, and values on the long term.

I would rather be less wealthy in a Christian country than a millionaire in a Muslim one!

 

[Mrsrx]

Your arguments make no sense! Use your logic. If the current immigration system got us to this point; then, clearly, changing the current system will prevent more of such people entering Europe!

If you can't do anything more about a current fiché S, you can surely prevent more potential terrorists from entering the country, and lessen the probability of terrorist attacks!

You can shut down indoctrination centers and lessen the probability of youths becoming terrorists!

You have no idea what i think about the immigration system based on what you just said which proves my earlier points. Nevertheless ...Can you please tell me where are the indoctrination centers? (hint hint i mentioned it before for a country i live in and i know well...if i shut them down? what happens?)

Oh i see you arrived earlier than i expected at the end of your logic with no logistics or hard actions after claiming you have the solution only words in the air that have no value on the ground, empty attacks and nothing that makes sense realistically. Congrats you are like most politicians now....

I would rather be less wealthy in a Christian country than a millionaire in a Muslim one!

Exactly lets segregate and fight later ...always the christian way

 

[Dark Angel]

Honestly it wasn't directed at you. Maybe tangentially, but you really have to push the definition of tangent

See now you make me want to change my mind and say I did direct it at you. How exactly did you reach the conclusion that I am for unconditional immigration? Perhaps because you see me as a "multiculturalist leftist"? Or am I misunderstanding you somehow here?

ana ya albe badde kermelak. hejart w thajjaret yemken men lebnen ila biled el ghourbe, to establish and build a decent life as a decent person, and i am quite sure it was not easy, because at one point so many checks were in place to ensure what kind of people were becoming part of a society that worked hard to establish itself. today it suffice for anyone, good or bad, to join a caravan and head north. this is the fastest path to replicate the ails that struck Lebanon and forced you to move abroad right where you live at the moment. we should be more than welcoming and our hands extended to everyone and anyone who needs help, but my friend across europe izidi slave girls are meeting their captors, rapists and jailers on buses and in the metro; that is not acceptable.

Yazidi slave girl meets Isis captor in German street

 

[Indie]

It’s always the same comments from the same people (who, for the vast majority don’t live in France and are not French). They just use this opportunity to express their hate for Islam and Muslims, regardless of what happened.

La2 habibi...it's always the same comments from the same people throwing jabs around, but too cowardly to name names, or to address actual arguments.

You live in the U.S. ma heik? Why are you commenting, then?

We are commenting because many of us live in the West; and, the situation is the same, or will become the same (and even worse), in all of the West. And Christians in Lebanon are not spared the hardships brought upon by islamists.

I lose count of how many islamist terror attacks have happened at Christmas markets, not counting the other attacks; but, we are the ones who are full of hate, you say?!!!

[كلام صارم جداً]

 

[Dark Angel]

It’s always the same comments from the same people (who, for the vast majority don’t live in France and are not French). They just use this opportunity to express their hate for Islam and Muslims, regardless of what happened.
My problem with the situation, as I understood it, is that the guy is 29 and has 27 “convictions”. Let’s assume he started at 16, that’s over 2 per year. How the hell was he not serving a life sentence. I know justice is too lax in France (be it with terrorists, with casseurs, or with violent demonstrators who block roads and degrade property). But this goes beyond what is understandable.
That is the root of the problem. Without becoming a police state, justice has to become more severe, for all illegal activities...

because there is always an a** like you that will bend his head forward to make a smartass comment and accuse people and judges of racism and hatred for islam whenever a judge is about to pass a sentence.

 

[Indie]

You have no idea what i think about the immigration system based on what you just said which proves my earlier points. Nevertheless ...Can you please tell me where are the indoctrination centers? (hint hint i mentioned it before for a country i live in and i know well...if i shut them down? what happens?)

Oh i see you arrived earlier than i expected at the end of your logic with no logistics or hard actions after claiming you have the solution only words in the air that have no value on the ground, empty attacks and nothing that makes sense realistically. Congrats you are like most politicians now....

I quoted your very words, which show that I understand your stance perfectly well. And I offered multiple solutions, which you are all too happy to ignore, by claiming they are not feasible.

So no, I won't waste my time writing a detailed, intricate plan, for someone who won't even acknowledge that there is a serious issue with islam, and that the least we can do is change the current immigration system to prevent more islamists from settling in the West.

In fact, it is obvious from your last paragraph that you do not want to limit the islamist expansion to the West, under the guise that it would be "segregation."

Exactly lets segregate and fight later ...always the christian way

No, let's let in the trojan horse and help the enemies of the West in their fantasies of conquest!

 

[Mrsrx]

I quoted your very words, which show that I understand your stance perfectly well. And I offered multiple solutions, which you are all too happy to ignore, by claiming they are not feasible.

So no, I won't waste my time writing a detailed, intricate plan, for someone who won't even acknowledge that there is a serious issue with islam, and that the least we can do is change the current immigration system to prevent more islamists from settling in the West.

In fact, it is obvious from your last paragraph that you do not want to limit the islamist expansion to the West, under the guise that it would be "segregation."



No, let's let in the trojan horse and help the enemies of the West in their fantasies of conquest!

Empty extremes. You do not understand ...what you said is not whatsoever what i think...it was the caricature i talked about that you made up! I will consider my point proven.
have a nice day.

 

[Indie]

Empty extremes
have a nice day.

Empty words.
Have a nice day, while the West is still relatively free.

 

[Nonan]

Interestingly, even the posts from people you ignore get sent via email to you... so you get to enjoy the insults people write because they have nothing fruitful to say.
I’ll just highlight two quick points:
1) while I don’t currently live in France, I am a French citizen, vote in French elections, own property in France... unlike the haters that have no relation to France
2) people who didn’t bother read my post quickly attacked me (with insults) accusing me of advocating leniency, while my post states the opposite (just like al my positions on law and order).
Conclusion, I was absolutely right to ignore these two posters and now will direct all email from the oroom to spam to avoid to deal with insults and bullying.

Anyone has any useful contribution to the debate?

 

[Dark Angel]

You are a caricature that has no idea what the people you attack think. You created an enemy in your head that you call the left without an idea whatsoever of who they are and what they think. You build your attacks on your own proper assumptions without even checking if the assumptions are correct. You have no idea what i stand for nor what do i think! Yet you create ideas in your head stick them as my beliefs and rant like there is no tomorrow.
This is the case of you and many others that struggle to even scratch the surface of the complexity of this world and the complexity of the problems with a simplistic vision as you are not capable of threading a line of thought and going deeper into any issue.
Whatever i say is worthless directed at you as you will go on with your assumptions disregarding my actual position. Go on with your caricature!

People are dead, the asshole that killed them is on the run and all i care for is not a simplistic debate that will not change my mind as it is not directed at me but just to see the guy behind bars and preferably hanged by his b*lls.
Have your simplistic last word.

is there any sentence in your posts that does not resort to labeling and belittling? not that i expected better from you, how do you think it was ever possible for extremists to cross the west and bring their festering ideologies and harbor it one generation after the next if it was not for enablers and facilitators who take your exact same position distributing all kinds of accusations against anyone and everyone who dare point out the underlying problem?

What do you expect ?
Sending thoughts and prayers? saying he is mentally deranged or saying its not the time to talk about the real issue?
Once you fail to understand that open people are against grouped punishments including mexicans/arabs/blacks and any other type of person you cannot understand the position of people who accept people different than them. This is a terrorist asshole, the scum of the earth same as all the mass shooters of the usa and every attack in the world.

so let me see if i got this straight, it is all about identity politics when you are facing the vicious Christian white man, but you directly switch to the individual mode when you are at the receiving end, eh?

you can rest assured i never labeled people nor grouped them in the same box, regardless of their race, religion and ideologies. people are to be treated on merit basis, in particular when it comes to immigration, it is a one by one check, it is not a-la-caravan south america style. if you embrace that chaotic kind of mass immigration, then you are effectively a partner in that massacre. that is all there is to it.

 

[Mrsrx]

is there any sentence in your posts that does not resort to labeling and belittling? not that i expected better from you, how do you think it was ever possible for extremists to cross the west and bring their festering ideologies and harbor it one generation after the next if it was not for enablers and facilitators who take your exact same position distributing all kinds of accusations against anyone and everyone who dare point out the underlying problem?


so let me see if i got this straight, it is all about identity politics when you are facing the vicious Christian white man, but you directly switch to the individual mode when you are at the receiving end, eh?

you can rest assured i never labeled people nor grouped them in the same box, regardless of their race, religion and ideologies. people are to be treated on merit basis, in particular when it comes to immigration, it is a one by one check, it is not a-la-caravan south america style. if you embrace that chaotic kind of mass immigration, then you are effectively a partner in that massacre. that is all there is to it.

Again you do not read. so i am not interested....what you just claimed does not represent what i think nor my position. continue arguing with something you have created without me

 

[Indie]

Interestingly, even the posts from people you ignore get sent via email to you... so you get to enjoy the insults people write because they have nothing fruitful to say.

If you don't want people to put you back in your place, refrain from ad hominems against them. No one was talking to you. You walked in on the conversation and started with this lovely paragraph:

"It’s always the same comments from the same people (who, for the vast majority don’t live in France and are not French). They just use this opportunity to express their hate for Islam and Muslims, regardless of what happened."

So spare us your crocodile tears.

I’ll just highlight two quick points:
1) while I don’t currently live in France, I am a French citizen, vote in French elections, own property in France... unlike the haters that have no relation to France

You don't know what relation we do or don't have to France.

And the relation you have to France is irrelevant to the validity of your arguments, or the loyalty you feel towards France's culture and values.

Your islamist friends have the French citizenship, too. It is not preventing them from destroying the country that took them in and gave them better opportunities.

2) people who didn’t bother read my post quickly attacked me (with insults) accusing me of advocating leniency, while my post states the opposite (just like al my positions on law and order).
Conclusion, I was absolutely right to ignore these two posters and now will direct all email from the oroom to spam to avoid to deal with insults and bullying.

Anyone has any useful contribution to the debate?

We read and understood your post just fine. You are making the same argument as @mrsrx , which is to advocate for short-term, after-the-fact, band-aid solutions, while promoting the source of the problem. AND insulting those who want to fix the problem at its source.