Geageaism (1986-1990) Short-lived Success or Mafia Rule?

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
I compared them to Mussolini and Franco model. in their media they describe their ideology as social democrat. (right- Wing naturally)
Wrong comparisons. Very simplistic narrow view. No wonder, small parties like kataeb have more representation than communism in lebanon.
 

SAVO

Active Member
Fair enough (i would put Nazis in the same l

Nazism took lot of spots from fascism.. but its a german authentic mentale deformation..while Mussolini fascism was more like a Universal model of menthal deformation..

Tt he closest example to kataeb i would Say the croatian ustasha ..
 

SAVO

Active Member
Wrong comparisons. Very simplistic narrow view. No wonder, small parties like kataeb have more representation than communism in lebanon.
Enlighten us more about kataeb ..

How would u define them?

Keep lebanese communist out of It or create. A proper thread about them
 

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
Enlighten us more about kataeb ..

How would u define them?

Keep lebanese communist out of It or create. A proper thread about them

After you keep nazis and Mussolini out of kataeb. Kataeb believe in a pluralistic society.
Ironically, kataeb's political opponents, communists, ssnp and Baath resemble Mussolini and fascism to a much bigger degree.
 

Mrsrx

Not an expert!
Staff member
After you keep nazis and Mussolini out of kataeb. Kataeb believe in a pluralistic society.
Ironically, kataeb's political opponents, communists, ssnp and Baath resemble Mussolini and fascism to a much bigger degree.
Ma khass el 7adis.

We are talking about right wing parties that put on a social agenda out there and pretend to be anything close to left wing parties. In this thread to justify that taxes levied by LF (khouwwet) in that period some said there were were heavenly services but it was not redistributed and that is why the comparison was drawn. You cannot deny that kataeb were built on the same principles as Franco as this is an admission of the party founder. We are not saying their target is the same here even though they showed that at some period in time (Safra massacre and Dany...pluralistic)
 

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
Ma khass el 7adis.

We are talking about right wing parties that put on a social agenda out there and pretend to be anything close to left wing parties. In this thread to justify that taxes levied by LF (khouwwet) in that period some said there were were heavenly services but it was not redistributed and that is why the comparison was drawn. You cannot deny that kataeb were built on the same principles as Franco as this is an admission of the party founder. We are not saying their target is the same here even though they showed that at some period in time (Safra massacre and Dany...pluralistic)

I am replying to his comparison of kataeb to Mussolini. That's all. It's a wrong comparison. I m not getting into or stopping your discussion.
Principles of Franco? Or Mussolini? :)
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
After you keep nazis and Mussolini out of kataeb. Kataeb believe in a pluralistic society.
Ironically, kataeb's political opponents, communists, ssnp and Baath resemble Mussolini and fascism to a much bigger degree.

Wrong. Kataeb was modeled after the Spanish 'Falange' party. They even copied the name. Their role models were Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler.
Pierre Gemayel even expressed his admiration for Nazi Germany when he visited Berlin as an Olympic athlete.
Fascism has always been at the heart of the Kataeb party's political ideology.
This is evident in Bachir's and Geagea's political career. They sought to eliminate political opposition by force and employed massacres as a weapon of ethnic cleansing (à la Hitler). They also used derogatory language when referring to Palestinians, Syrians, and Muslims in general.

Antoun Saadeh, on the other hand, believed in a secular democracy where people are treated equally regardless of their religion. He believed in the concept of a Natural Syria and in the separation of state and church. Basically, he was the opposite of everything Kataeb represented and was quite progressive for Lebanon at the time which is why he got killed.

I think the idea of using common heritage and geography as a way to unify people is not a bad one, especially when compared to the isolationist ideology of Kataeb which brought Lebanon nothing but death and destruction, and exacerbated sectarian tensions.
Syrian Baathism has been proven to actually work in Syria. Alawite and Baathist Sunnis get along very well with Christians in Syria.
There's a reason Syrians prefer Baathist rule to Islamist rule. Syrian/Arab nationalism is the only way to unite tribal people such as Middle Easterners.

The execution of Antoun Saadeh's will forever be a stain on Bechara El Khoury's legacy (not that he has any).
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I am replying to his comparison of kataeb to Mussolini. That's all. It's a wrong comparison. I m not getting into or stopping your discussion.
Principles of Franco? Or Mussolini? :)

Both were fascists. The only difference was that Mussolini was anti-religious while Franco had the church's support. (yawn, Christianity and fascism..a match made in heaven)

So in that sense, Kataeb is closer to Franco than it is to Mussolini.

The relationship between Samir Geagea and Patriarch Sfeir was similar to that of Franco and the Catholic Church.
 

samir khoury

Well-Known Member
In the 80s the christian regions were rich and safe, kaslik was like the downtown of the city , the restaurants and nightclubs were all around, everyone was making money . all this under the LF guard . when aoun came and took power he destroyed the christian areas .
Michel Aoun is by far the one who destroyed and killed the most christians in the history of lebanon and history is repeating itself today
 

NewLeb

Member
In the 80s the christian regions were rich and safe, kaslik was like the downtown of the city , the restaurants and nightclubs were all around, everyone was making money . all this under the LF guard . when aoun came and took power he destroyed the christian areas .
Michel Aoun is by far the one who destroyed and killed the most christians in the history of lebanon and history is repeating itself today

I think you are right. After several years of Tayyar and Hezbollah in power, it’s safe to conclude that both parties simply don’t know how to make money.

I assume it’s because both groups happen to be more concerned with moralistic and immaterial pursuits, rather than pure financial gain.
 

samir khoury

Well-Known Member
I think you are right. After several years of Tayyar and Hezbollah in power, it’s safe to conclude that both parties simply don’t know how to make money.

I assume it’s because both groups happen to be more concerned with moralistic and immaterial pursuits, rather than pure financial gain.
financial gain is not a bad thing its the base of all capitalist countries in the world,probably you are working in dubai or living in the us. am sure you are not in iran gaining moralistic values , Hezbollah moralistic pursuit? ( wilayat el fakih? ) or liberation of palestine? whats the moral of FPM ? please tell me i beg you . (oslah ou taghyir ) please stop the joke .
 

NewLeb

Member
financial gain is not a bad thing its the base of all capitalist countries in the world,probably you are working in dubai or living in the us. am sure you are not in iran gaining moralistic values , Hezbollah moralistic pursuit? ( wilayat el fakih? ) or liberation of palestine? whats the moral of FPM ? please tell me i beg you . (oslah ou taghyir ) please stop the joke .

Well, Aounies are always whining about “economic accountability,” and how certain people are “bad” because of the means in which they generated their wealth (for example, all the vitriol towards Rafik Hariri). I suppose this is one major reason why a lot of Aounies didn’t like Trump. They don’t like figures with a lot of cash, and there’s a good reason for that.

In regards to Hezbollah, the concept of respect plays a critical role here. Shiites are an emotional peoples, and they place adab above all else. This can pose problems in the financial world, given that money is attracted to non-emotional states of minds. Ergo, those who are sensitive and emotional to insults and biting words have immense difficulty acquiring income.
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
The title of this thread is actually misleading.
the 1986-1990 era was not G3g3 era where G3g3 had full control over Shar2iyeh.
There were other players as Amin Gmayel, the LAF, the state institutions, BDL, the Leb Christian diaspora... etc, when it comes to the economy during this time.
G3g3 managed to have full control over LF thru a series of murders of hundreds (some say thousands) of LFers, so yes G3g3 had a typical mafia rule.
G3g3 tried to run business at mafia style, where he imposed khuwet on all the population in areas under his control and these khuwet will be to the benefit of his men.... and he succeeded to some extent.
But G3g3 experience was far from any successful sustainable economic model.
To be fair, G3g3 is great as a mafia leader but he fails miserably as a stateman.
Also on a side note, G3g3 is not smart politically and strategically....while he is good in small tactics and in running his party.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The point Is impropriate use of the Word "socialism" as some dedcribed Gaegae previously ..

Use wikipedia to check about concepita likes :
Socialism ; real socialism; market socialism; scientific socialism ; democratic socialism : all of them are marxist based concept and considered Extreme left.

Social democracy. Is a center left .
leftist have a no class vision of society centered on workers class


Both are extremely different in structure and concept from
Corporativism ; nationalsocialism and the and the social doctrine of catholic church. Whcih are mainly right- Extreme right- Wing ideology.. and its centered in a corporativist and classist society.
Shou khass the Catholic Church?
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Both were fascists. The only difference was that Mussolini was anti-religious while Franco had the church's support. (yawn, Christianity and fascism..a match made in heaven)

So in that sense, Kataeb is closer to Franco than it is to Mussolini.

The relationship between Samir Geagea and Patriarch Sfeir was similar to that of Franco and the Catholic Church.
Again, what’s this smear campaign mixing Christianity with any sort of political model?
stick to politics and keep Christianity out of it.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
In the 80s the christian regions were rich and safe, kaslik was like the downtown of the city , the restaurants and nightclubs were all around, everyone was making money . all this under the LF guard . when aoun came and took power he destroyed the christian areas .
Michel Aoun is by far the one who destroyed and killed the most christians in the history of lebanon and history is repeating itself today
Funny it was LF bombarding the Christian areas much more than Aoun. And Geagea single handedly killed more Christians than anyone else in Lebanon. What Aoun destroyed was he militia mentality and that’s why people flocked to him en masse, at the time. At the time of LF, it was more akin to mafia rule with mafia businesses thriving, protected by the mafia bosses...
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Again, what’s this smear campaign mixing Christianity with any sort of political model?
stick to politics and keep Christianity out of it.

Huh? It's not Christianity per se, but it's a well-known fact that the Catholic church supported the Francoist regime.
You cannot talk about the history of Christianity without mentioning the Popes or the Crusades, or the inquisition.
After all, followers are a reflection of the religion they subscribe to.

If the Pope don't represent Christianity, who does?
 
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