Gebran Bassil - Head of FPM, Leader of the Strong Lebanon Bloc and Former Minister of Foreign Affairs

The_FPMer

The_FPMer

Active Member
Now you're going back 15 years to entrench yourself in yet another imaginary argument. Maybe you weren't following much at the time but i shouyld remind you that the Future TV never ceased to mobilize its sectarian hatred towards Aoun and FPM. Future Movement religious figures spewed sectarian hatred in mosques, there were recordings that would make a pimp shy into his own clothes. FM politicians all around the country from Tripoli to Saida to Akkar and Denniye all the way to Mazare3 Shebaa cursing Aoun with vile sectarian propaganda and nobody cared to denounce any one of them. It went like this for years, unchecked by the politically correct assholes we see and hear today.

Spare me your retrospective attempt at finding a point; FPM rank and file have always adopted a unifying and secular approach to every little issue in the country. We were not the ones who turned the Serail into a mosque for friday prayers, we did not encourage religious figures to brew sectarian hatred, we accepted all democratically elected officials and representatives and respected everyone across the board. Our only drawback is that we don't have armed goons to enforce respect for ourselves like almost everyone does, because this seems to be the only way in this part of the world. Another reason to call the deplorables for what they really are.
That is correct but Michel Aoun was trashing Rafic Hariri the moment he got to Lebanon and Sunnis were still grieving for his death. Is Rafic Hariri corrupt? Yes, he's the godfather of Lebanese corruption, but Michel Aoun should have played it smarter and build a broader coalition around him.
 
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  • Abotareq93

    Abotareq93

    Legendary Member
    That is correct but Michel Aoun was trashing Rafic Hariri the moment he got to Lebanon and Sunnis were still grieving for his death. Is Rafic Hariri corrupt? Yes, he's the godfather of Lebanese corruption, but Michel Aoun should have played it smarter and build a broader coalition around him.
    The first thing that Aoun did after returning from France is visit Hariri's grave. What was Sunnis' and March 14 reaction? Quadripartite alliance and continuous, orchestrated media attacks on him.
     
    fidelio

    fidelio

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That is correct but Michel Aoun was trashing Rafic Hariri the moment he got to Lebanon and Sunnis were still grieving for his death. Is Rafic Hariri corrupt? Yes, he's the godfather of Lebanese corruption, but Michel Aoun should have played it smarter and build a broader coalition around him.
    Turning around in circles of lies are we? Aoun never badmouthed Rafiq Hariri. He even went as far as to lay a wreath at his grave and nobody from the family or the FM even showed up.
    Your blame attempts at this point are bordering bad intentions.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    Turning around in circles of lies are we? Aoun never badmouthed Rafiq Hariri. He even went as far as to lay a wreath at his grave and nobody from the family or the FM even showed up.
    Your blame attempts at this point are bordering bad intentions.
    I know that, I'm talking 2005 onwards, specifically post-MOU.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    We are derailing, playing the victim and accusing. You are preaching to the choir, we obviously agree on the malice and ill intentions and corruption of most parties.
    Unfortunately, this was the same strategy and tactics used by Bassil, to confront, blame and be cocky, which led to a disaster to FPM. You can't beat the parties you are accusing at their own game.
    Again, imho if the party wants to move forward, this is not this right tactics. I hope you read that my message bears some friendly blame, and that we could simply for once concentrate on the errors committed regardless of the sins of others.
    FPM lost a lot by having a character like Bassil constantly exposed to the media and negotiations.
    you simply cannot partner up with people who want to see you fail. when half the Lebanese are intent on preventing you from succeeding then you will certainly fail. not simply because of your tactics or strategies, but rather because on a very fundamental level there cannot be any recipe for success that could emerge out of such a mindset. some people in Lebanon are willing to shoot themselves in the foot out of hatred towards the other. you cannot establish a functional state when your populating is plagued with such illnesses. you simply cannot help people who do not want to help themselves. our population needs psychiatric help.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    you simply cannot partner up with people who want to see you fail. when half the Lebanese are intent on preventing you from succeeding then you will certainly fail. not simply because of your tactics or strategies, but rather because on a very fundamental level there cannot be any recipe for success that could emerge out of such a mindset. some people in Lebanon are willing to shoot themselves in the foot out of hatred towards the other. you cannot establish a functional state when your populating is plagued with such illnesses. you simply cannot help people who do not want to help themselves. our population needs psychiatric help.
    I don't disagree that there is a lot of education to be undertaken and the starting point is at a primary level.
    Where I disagree with you is the role FPM played. It is unfortunately too late now. We are turning in circles, I am addressing styles, expectations, promises and mistakes and all I hear back is blame and victimization. So you are admitting that the task was bigger than FPMs capabilities?
    Didn't the leaders know what kind of political ground they are stepping in? Why promise the moon when you can hardly light a lamp?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I don't disagree that there is a lot of education to be undertaken and the starting point is at a primary level.
    Where I disagree with you is the role FPM played. It is unfortunately too late now. We are turning in circles, I am addressing styles, expectations, promises and mistakes and all I hear back is blame and victimization. So you are admitting that the task was bigger than FPMs capabilities?
    Didn't the leaders know what kind of political ground they are stepping in? Why promise the moon when you can hardly light a lamp?
    i think that GMA approached the situation with the mentality that the war is over, and that going forward we are all going to be partners in effectively rebuilding our country, he was wrong in his approach. GMA is a very decent and honorable person, he is not a miracle worker. if the Lebanese people support him we can get places. it is as simple as that. the Lebanese people however are of a different mind. so be it, everyone will suffer the consequences of their own actions, FPMers for being too naive at a certain point, and others for being too evil, but the worst fate is reserved to those who stood by applauding the failures without supporting when their support could have made a difference, these will go straight into the seventh circle of hell.

    as to you, you are too much of a cynic. that's is not the attitude we are looking for :p
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    i think that GMA approached the situation with the mentality that the war is over, and that going forward we are all going to be partners in effectively rebuilding our country, he was wrong in his approach. GMA is a very decent and honorable person, he is not a miracle worker. if the Lebanese people support him we can get places. it is as simple as that. the Lebanese people however are of a different mind. so be it, everyone will suffer the consequences of their own actions, FPMers for being too naive at a certain point, and others for being too evil, but the worst fate is reserved to those who stood by applauding the failures without supporting when their support could have made a difference, these will go straight into the seventh circle of hell.

    as to you, you are too much of a cynic. that's is not the attitude we are looking for :p
    Who is judging, assigning and reserving the above fate? :)
    Support is earned, you got your many chances. Unfortunately right now, all the alternatives are pretty much the same, no matter who is driving, the engine and GPS are iranian. And you learnt to use their style and language of takfeer and assigning spots in the layers of hell.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    i think that GMA approached the situation with the mentality that the war is over, and that going forward we are all going to be partners in effectively rebuilding our country, he was wrong in his approach. GMA is a very decent and honorable person, he is not a miracle worker. if the Lebanese people support him we can get places. it is as simple as that. the Lebanese people however are of a different mind. so be it, everyone will suffer the consequences of their own actions, FPMers for being too naive at a certain point, and others for being too evil, but the worst fate is reserved to those who stood by applauding the failures without supporting when their support could have made a difference, these will go straight into the seventh circle of hell.

    as to you, you are too much of a cynic. that's is not the attitude we are looking for :p
    Bullshit. Is that why FPM kept drudging up aghast civil war memories since 2005? Does photoshopping an HA soldier and making him into an LFer ring a bell? The alleged mass graves in Jal El Dib? The ceaseless talking about the Ehden Massacre and the intra-Christian conflicts. etc. These weren't FPM supporters that were screaming these, they were FPM officials and Michel Aoun himself.

    There's a difference between being an FPM supporter and refusing to admit that these are flawed human beings that are not 100% pure and well-intentioned and that's not wrong or abnormal.

    Only with cruel ruthless objectivity can someone achieve his goals. No wonder FPM failed miserably.
     
    dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    i think that GMA approached the situation with the mentality that the war is over, and that going forward we are all going to be partners in effectively rebuilding our country, he was wrong in his approach. GMA is a very decent and honorable person, he is not a miracle worker. if the Lebanese people support him we can get places. it is as simple as that. the Lebanese people however are of a different mind. so be it, everyone will suffer the consequences of their own actions, FPMers for being too naive at a certain point, and others for being too evil, but the worst fate is reserved to those who stood by applauding the failures without supporting when their support could have made a difference, these will go straight into the seventh circle of hell.

    as to you, you are too much of a cynic. that's is not the attitude we are looking for :p
    So basically GMA would have done a great job if everything is already perfect and we don't need anything.
    Nobody is talking about miracles, people are not in a "different mind", when FPM were in the opposition, talking about corruption and doing reforms in Telecom and other ministries their popularity grew and this is how they had their solid base, but now things are changing because they're doing like everyone else. People shouldn't "Trust" GMA or Bassil, they should hold them accountable for their actions and decisions and
    "the other guys are not working with us" is not an excuse, you were able to let these partners give you the president, judges and countless positions, suddenly when it comes to reform everyone is blocking you.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    So basically GMA would have done a great job if everything is already perfect and we don't need anything.
    how do you come up with these counter arguments? this is precisely part of the problem we are facing, and that is a clear indication even if on the surface as to why we cannot be constructive with this mentality. it is not simply a problem that manifests itself politically, but also on an individual level.
    Nobody is talking about miracles, people are not in a "different mind", when FPM were in the opposition, talking about corruption and doing reforms in Telecom and other ministries their popularity grew and this is how they had their solid base, but now things are changing because they're doing like everyone else. People shouldn't "Trust" GMA or Bassil, they should hold them accountable for their actions and decisions and
    "the other guys are not working with us" is not an excuse, you were able to let these partners give you the president, judges and countless positions, suddenly when it comes to reform everyone is blocking you.
    it is not that the other guys are not working with us, the other guys are obstructing everything we do, and the dam in the videos above is just a sample. many people including some on this forum would dance from joy if the dam proves to be faulty. the same goes to all other projects that FPM is attempting to implement, including the oil and gas endeavor.

    you are still more interested in bickering than in finding and supporting real solutions to our problems at a time when everything is falling apart. a bit of news for you, if the Lebanese people continue along this path they will self destruct, there is no escaping it. you have to take a step back and restore the system of values that are essential for every society to be able to rise, and that includes good judgment and common sense. this is by far more important than fpm and other parties. parties are just a vehicle to get us to a better place.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    how do you come up with these counter arguments? this is precisely part of the problem we are facing, and that is a clear indication even if on the surface as to why we cannot be constructive with this mentality. it is not simply a problem that manifests itself politically, but also on an individual level.

    it is not that the other guys are not working with us, the other guys are obstructing everything we do, and the dam in the videos above is just a sample. many people including some on this forum would dance from joy if the dam proves to be faulty. the same goes to all other projects that FPM is attempting to implement, including the oil and gas endeavor.

    you are still more interested in bickering than in finding and supporting real solutions to our problems at a time when everything is falling apart. a bit of news for you, if the Lebanese people continue along this path they will self destruct, there is no escaping it. you have to take a step back and restore the system of values that are essential for every society to be able to rise, and that includes good judgment and common sense. this is by far more important than fpm and other parties. parties are just a vehicle to get us to a better place.
    Very good religious speeches, morals and doom, cooked with guilt and victimization.

    It doesn't answer unfortunately any political questions and issues.

    Obstruction is part of life and politics, FPM has done its share of obstructions in the institutions as well.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Very good religious speeches, morals and doom, cooked with guilt and victimization.

    It doesn't answer unfortunately any political questions and issues.

    Obstruction is part of life and politics, FPM has done its share of obstructions in the institutions as well.
    this is precisely the kind of crap that i cannot tolerate anymore, and this precisely why our people will never be able to put together the minimum requirements for a functional state.
    i know very well that you understand the difference between insisting on having the most representative president and between insisting on obstructing power plants, dams, oil & gas, etc.. for all kinds of reasons. and it is because you know that difference that i really cannot stomach these posts of yours.

    gharib... i cannot imagine how on earth you can behave as such. and this is where the role of ethics becomes even more significant and accentuated. morals and doom and religious speeches 2al. te3tir sayer inta.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    this is precisely the kind of crap that i cannot tolerate anymore, and this precisely why our people will never be able to put together the minimum requirements for a functional state.
    i know very well that you understand the difference between insisting on having the most representative president and between insisting on obstructing power plants, dams, oil & gas, etc.. for all kinds of reasons. and it is because you know that difference that i really cannot stomach these posts of yours.

    gharib... i cannot imagine how on earth you can behave as such. and this is where the role of ethics becomes even more significant and accentuated. morals and doom and religious speeches 2al. te3tir sayer inta.
    You obstruct to have the president with the largest representation.
    However it's ok to send the prime minister with the largest representation in a one way ticket?
    That does not seem too ethical.
     
    dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    how do you come up with these counter arguments? this is precisely part of the problem we are facing, and that is a clear indication even if on the surface as to why we cannot be constructive with this mentality. it is not simply a problem that manifests itself politically, but also on an individual level.

    it is not that the other guys are not working with us, the other guys are obstructing everything we do, and the dam in the videos above is just a sample. many people including some on this forum would dance from joy if the dam proves to be faulty. the same goes to all other projects that FPM is attempting to implement, including the oil and gas endeavor.

    you are still more interested in bickering than in finding and supporting real solutions to our problems at a time when everything is falling apart. a bit of news for you, if the Lebanese people continue along this path they will self destruct, there is no escaping it. you have to take a step back and restore the system of values that are essential for every society to be able to rise, and that includes good judgment and common sense. this is by far more important than fpm and other parties. parties are just a vehicle to get us to a better place.
    Man if you look at the modern countries that we like to be with, European countries.
    They're not lucky to always have great leaders, They are like this because people are so exigent of them, sot strict that leaders have no choice but to act decent. This is why you have ministers resigning over paying 20$ from the state money, this is why even star leaders like Justin Trudeau and Angela Merkel lose popularity over a single decision even though they've made countless achievements.

    Compare this to what we have in Lebanon, we ask people to always accept what there is, because we have a special case, whatever happens we should forgive and understand that things are more complicated. If FPM decides to ally with someone we convince ourselves that he has no other choice and when they break up we convince ourselves that it's the right move. We spend our times overanalyzing things just to get to the same conclusion.

    Democracy is based on accountability. Accountability is to judge according to the results. This is why parties in other countries when they can't go their own way they simply turn to opposition, they don't give excuses and this is what we should do
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Man if you look at the modern countries that we like to be with, European countries.
    They're not lucky to always have great leaders, They are like this because people are so exigent of them, sot strict that leaders have no choice but to act decent. This is why you have ministers resigning over paying 20$ from the state money, this is why even star leaders like Justin Trudeau and Angela Merkel lose popularity over a single decision even though they've made countless achievements.

    Compare this to what we have in Lebanon, we ask people to always accept what there is, because we have a special case, whatever happens we should forgive and understand that things are more complicated. If FPM decides to ally with someone we convince ourselves that he has no other choice and when they break up we convince ourselves that it's the right move. We spend our times overanalyzing things just to get to the same conclusion.

    Democracy is based on accountability. Accountability is to judge according to the results. This is why parties in other countries when they can't go their own way they simply turn to opposition, they don't give excuses and this is what we should do
    people in europe do not have walid jumblat and nabih birri and samir ja3ja3. they do not have ministers who obstruct power plants from within the government. if one elected official fails, they can elect another. they do not have the problem that elected officials come and go while war lords and criminals still control everything from behind the scenes for ever. they have solved that part. when we solve that part we can hold people accountable for the smallest of issues.

    you want to strain out the gnat but swallow the camel whole. once you set your priorities straight we can begin to measure up to the european standards, despite the fact that in many places around the world the common sense of the masses has taken a severe dent for many reasons.

    more importantly you still are unable to objectively assess the performance of the Leaders in Lebanon, and this damn is a fine example to that. when people stop wishing that the dam breaks and once they stop lying and making up rumors then and only then will be qualified to objectively assess the performance leaders. until that happens they are a bunch of liars, idiots and evil doers.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You obstruct to have the president with the largest representation.
    However it's ok to send the prime minister with the largest representation in a one way ticket?
    That does not seem too ethical.
    not everything that FPM has done is correct, and i disagree with the party over a wide range of issues, however they are by far the best option currently presented on the Lebanese scene, and they are by far better than the neo-liberals spitting their venom at every opportunity. until a better option manifests itself, FPM will still be the best choice the Lebanese citizen possesses.
     
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