Hezbollah: Is it Lebanon’s problem or Lebanon is its problem?

Vision

Well-Known Member
What government? What democracy? What planet are you on? The vast majority of the political class in Lebanon has to be exiled for treason and theft ! Do you really expect that bunch of disorganized, bigoted, self-serving mafiosi families to do anything for Lebanon, let alone protect it militarily?

The political class you are referring to were elected by the people as their representatives. Just because you and Hizbullah don't have faith in them doesn't give you or Hizbullah the right to make decision's on the Lebanese People's behalf without a mandate to do so.

I personally don't want Hizbullah to disarm, i would rather they autonomize their statelet, and carry out whatever endeavours they please at their own accord, without my criticism, i might even give them praise, but for them to hold the entire country to randsom, because they can with the might of their weapons, and impose a status quo with these weapons, i have no chloice but to criticize them and the weapons they posess.

its funny how you conveniently omitted the last few lines of my post where i suggested they hand over command of the resistance (particularly with the decision to take our country to war) to their most loyal ally GMA.

Would you or they even accept such proposal?
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The political class you are referring to were elected by the people as their representatives. Just because you and Hizbullah don't have faith in them doesn't give you or Hizbullah the right to make decision's on the Lebanese People's behalf without a mandate to do so.

I personally don't want Hizbullah to disarm, i would rather they autonomize their statelet, and carry out whatever endeavours they please at their own accord, without my criticism, i might even give them praise, but for them to hold the entire country to randsom, because they can with the might of their weapons, and impose a status quo with these weapons, i have no chloice but to criticize them and the weapons they posess.

its funny how you conveniently omitted the last few lines of my post where i suggested they hand over command of the resistance (particularly with the decision to take our country to war) to their most loyal ally GMA.

Would you or they even accept such proposal?

You presented an argument that opposes a supposed illegitimate power (Hezbollah) to a supposed legitimate power (the government). I simply pointed out that the government is no more legitimate than Hezbollah.

Yes they are "voted" in...but do the people really have an alternative? It's the same [email protected] people and their families ruling and looting the country over and over and giving absolutely nothing back. These crooks are the ones holding the country at ransom, because they can impose their banana republic with the might of their dollars.

With Hezbollah, there's at least one benefit: we know Israel is kept in check and the global balance of power doesn‘t completely swing in favour of the Israeli/American scheme.

P.S. I have nothing to say about the GMA comment or the “you and Hezbollah” references because I have no ties to them or any other party for that matter.
 

orange infection

Active Member
Have you read it? and more importantly, are you qualified enough to judge it?
A little humility is an added virtue, especially when discussing something that is definitely not of your specialty.
am i qualified enough to judge it ? if i am not then i don't think you are either
anyway i think it's pretty clear and unspecific enough to make anyone capable of judging it .

These are outlines for a disarmament of Hezbollah and not outlines for a national defense strategy.
this national defense strategy must include the disarmament of hizbollah or else what progress did it actually do to solve the issue of hizbollah ? gma's paper talks about israel's might and the palestinian weapons but what did it offer to solve hizbollah's weapons exactly? nothing , and that's why hizbollah praised it ,because any specific deal that doesn't give them the benefit of a doubt will make hizbollah tied to some conditions , while right now they have tons of reasons that cannot be fulfilled . like having a strong army , no one actually knows what the army have to do in order to be strong enough for hizbollah to surrender to it . these issues cannot be solved like that and you know it , give people a practical solution . instead of reasons to postpone the problem .



Again, you are not well placed to judge or to give such harsh opinions about something you obviously have no notion about.
And besides, it is not a "Hezbollah problem" , it is primarily a "National defense" problem. Maybe in light of this small nuance you might be able to start new venues of thought regarding this issue and FPM's approach to it.
FPM's approach is political . baddak t2elleh that when gma criticized HA in the harshest ways possible before the MOU , he didn't have a clue ?
he wasn't able to criticize HA in anyway or to leave its circle ever since , even after the maskhara in the parliament when HA voted for the palestinian "rights" or against the right for the army to vote , gma only criticized FM and forgot that HA did the exact same thing . they completely lost their sense of judgment , and that's enough to doubt their approach towards everything concerning HA .
 

Vision

Well-Known Member
You presented an argument that opposes a supposed illegitimate power (Hezbollah) to a supposed legitimate power (the government). I simply pointed out that the government is no more legitimate than Hezbollah.

Yes they are "voted" in...but do the people really have an alternative? It's the same [email protected] people and their families ruling and looting the country over and over and giving absolutely nothing back. These crooks are the ones holding the country at ransom, because they can impose their banana republic with the might of their dollars.

With Hezbollah, there's at least one benefit: we know Israel is kept in check and the global balance of power doesn‘t completely swing in favour of the Israeli/American scheme.

P.S. I have nothing to say about the GMA comment or the “you and Hezbollah” references because I have no ties to them or any other party for that matter.

That wasn't a presented arguement but rather an option for Hizbullah to do as those whom they represent please, without their actions advesely affecting my welfare, considering the fact that the don't represent me and a large portion of the Lebanese that haven't given them a mandate.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
That wasn't a presented arguement but rather an option for Hizbullah to do as those whom they represent please, without their actions advesely affecting my welfare, considering the fact that the don't represent me and a large portion of the Lebanese that haven't given them a mandate.

How do the crooks that have "been given a mandate" represent you? What have they done for your welfare? What they represent is Lebanese people's fears and their own interests...nothing more nothing less.
 

Vision

Well-Known Member
How do the crooks that have "been given a mandate" represent you? What have they done for your welfare? What they represent is Lebanese people's fears and their own interests...nothing more nothing less.

Indie, we're running on different wavelengths here.

Hizbullah arms are further strengthening the influence of those whom you call crooks on their constituents through fear of sectarian strife, thus resorting to their tribal instincts and offering their sectarian leaders blanket support and not the other way around.

Answer this simple question:

Do you beleive Hizbullah Arms are a contributor for the sectarian bickering going on in Lebanon and has been for some years now? if so, don't you think its reasonable to have a discussion about them? Or are we to consider them a red line, accept status quo, live with it, and not expect people to feel resentment?
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
The political class you are referring to were elected by the people as their representatives. Just because you and Hizbullah don't have faith in them doesn't give you or Hizbullah the right to make decision's on the Lebanese People's behalf without a mandate to do so.
when israel violates the Lebanese sovereignty on daily basis, by land, by air, and by sea,
when the Lebanese army has zero ability to confront the israelis,
when all western nations have restrictions on arming the Lebanese army with any weapon that could cause a threat to israeli superiority,
when your government and prime minister consult and abide by the directives of foreign nations who openly favor the israeli interests,
when the decision of war and peace could be in the hands of people like elias el murr, marwan hmede, walid jumblat, samir geagea, and many other shady figures who god knows where their allegiance resides,
when your government tries to dismantle the communications network of the resistance knowing fully well that all other networks are breached,

then i would rather keep things as they are, after all SHN is more trustworthy than that bunch that sells itself in the open market to the highest bidder. only when the government becomes truly autonomous and independent i will become a strong supporter of placing the decision of war and peace in its hands. it is obvious that HA has strong ties with iran, but so far they have been very responsible in the use of the power they possess, even on may 7th.

I personally don't want Hizbullah to disarm, i would rather they autonomize their statelet, and carry out whatever endeavours they please at their own accord, without my criticism, i might even give them praise, but for them to hold the entire country to randsom, because they can with the might of their weapons, and impose a status quo with these weapons, i have no chloice but to criticize them and the weapons they posess.
can you explain to me how they are holding the entire country hostage? they have never interfered in any political decision, they would rather not be part of the government and they are supported by the majority of the Lebanese people. it is a catchy slogan though "holding the entire country hostage", the type of slogans that would flock people to the hariri demonstration when played over and over and over and hammered in the people's brains. but in reality it has no context whatsoever.
its funny how you conveniently omitted the last few lines of my post where i suggested they hand over command of the resistance (particularly with the decision to take our country to war) to their most loyal ally GMA.
Would you or they even accept such proposal?
The whole idea is to transition from a single party decision process to an institution based decision. But here is the good news, now that your guys are out of the government, nothing should halter the transitioning towards a national resistance. you are very lucky that SHN is in charge of the resistance, had someone like subhi toufayle, the convenient ally of hariri, been in charge, things would have gotten very bloody long ago. so i guess you should count your blessings, and work on finding a process to keep the decision of war and peace in the hands of a trustworthy and credible person.
 

Vision

Well-Known Member
You are very lucky that SHN is in charge of the resistance, had someone like subhi toufayle, the convenient ally of hariri, been in charge, things would have gotten very bloody long ago. so i guess you should count your blessings, and work on finding a process to keep the decision of war and peace in the hands of a trustworthy and credible person.

Thanks for further emphasising my point.

Whether they do or don't, the fact that Hizbullah have the ''option'' to turn matters into a blood bath at will, is the reason their fellow citizen feel duress with their armament.

Cheers
 

PFC

Legendary Member
Thanks for further emphasising my point.

Whether they do or don't, the fact that Hizbullah have the ''option'' to turn matters into a blood bath at will, is the reason their fellow citizen feel duress with their armament.

Cheers

that's why we need them if you decide again to act like in Feb 2006,May 2008or January 2011... not to forget Arab university,Halba,Naher el bared or any other occasion you showed your true Benladini face
 

fidelio

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
am i qualified enough to judge it ? if i am not then i don't think you are either
anyway i think it's pretty clear and unspecific enough to make anyone capable of judging it .
I never said I'm qualified to do it either. I am not a military strategist and for any opinion on such a paper i would definitely rely on one. Your argument and opinion on this matter, to me at least, is weightless.

this national defense strategy must include the disarmament of hizbollah or else what progress did it actually do to solve the issue of hizbollah ? gma's paper talks about israel's might and the palestinian weapons but what did it offer to solve hizbollah's weapons exactly? nothing , and that's why hizbollah praised it ,because any specific deal that doesn't give them the benefit of a doubt will make hizbollah tied to some conditions , while right now they have tons of reasons that cannot be fulfilled . like having a strong army , no one actually knows what the army have to do in order to be strong enough for hizbollah to surrender to it . these issues cannot be solved like that and you know it , give people a practical solution . instead of reasons to postpone the problem .
I told you before, if we are talking about a national defense strategy, the issue of protecting this mutant of a country comes first, disarmament comes second. If you want to discuss this issue outside of this structure and rationale then i am not interested in lecturing the obvious to anyone.



FPM's approach is political . baddak t2elleh that when gma criticized HA in the harshest ways possible before the MOU , he didn't have a clue ?
he wasn't able to criticize HA in anyway or to leave its circle ever since , even after the maskhara in the parliament when HA voted for the palestinian "rights" or against the right for the army to vote , gma only criticized FM and forgot that HA did the exact same thing . they completely lost their sense of judgment , and that's enough to doubt their approach towards everything concerning HA .
This part is off topic.
 

Vision

Well-Known Member
that's why we need them if you decide again to act like in Feb 2006,May 2008or January 2011... not to forget Arab university,Halba,Naher el bared or any other occasion you showed your true Benladini face

PFC's are a weak choice, i prefer using I beams coz the get better spans and less twisting.

FYI, It was the Lebanese Army who fought the terrorists in Naher el Berid, Not Hizbullah, actually it was Hassan Nisrallah who called the Berid Camp a red line, or have you forgotten.

Get your facts straight PFC, dont twist them.

Cheers
 

orange infection

Active Member
I told you before, if we are talking about a national defense strategy, the issue of protecting this mutant of a country comes first, disarmament comes second. If you want to discuss this issue outside of this structure and rationale then i am not interested in lecturing the obvious to anyone.
the national defense strategy and HA's disarmament are not 2 seperated issues , HA's disarmament must be included in the national defense strategy . implementing any defense strategy without taking into consideration that you have an armed HA in your country does not solve the issue at all , the party is still there and still armed , so what did we solve exactly ?
HA themselves gave their view about this defense strategy and it was all poems describing the effectiveness of the resistance , that certainly wasn't something that will solve the HA issue . HA are trying to convince everyone to accept their weapons and not actually implement a plan to make these weapons out of HA's control and under that of the lebanese state . 2 completely different things.


This part is off topic.
you wanted me to understand the way FPM apprach the HA thingy and i showed you an example of how FPM became completely incapable of judging HA on all matters and not only the weapons thing .
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
Thanks for further emphasising my point.

Whether they do or don't, the fact that Hizbullah have the ''option'' to turn matters into a blood bath at will, is the reason their fellow citizen feel duress with their armament.

Cheers

i will rephrase, i said that you are lucky that SHN is not someone you can taunt, otherwise the endless provocations from hariri and his team would have achieved their objective and we would have faced a blood bath. it is not normal that a prime minister is so amateurishly shallow and irresponsible, and that a military leader has much more self control and a deeper sense of responsibility.

wod7it el fekra?
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
...
FPM's approach is political . baddak t2elleh that when gma criticized HA in the harshest ways possible before the MOU , he didn't have a clue ? he wasn't able to criticize HA in anyway or to leave its circle ever since ,
on the eve of the baabda-alley election results in 2005, GMA held a press conference in which he stated that HA has lost strategically by his alliance with Hariri even though they won the kaza elections, and that they would have had better stuck by GMA. for your info, the MoU took years into working. it wasn't born overnight. so before the MoU, GMA was looking after the interests of HA as part of the whole Lebanese interests, and at the time he continued voicing his concerns until the MoU was signed.

the part that you fail to understand, is the part that makes the most sense. differences, if any, in a country like Lebanon should be solved with the least amount of public and media exposure. of course this means that the over excited idiots starving for media excitement and "don quixote" type of adventures will grow bored. after the MoU was signed, the relation between FPM and HA has been one based on trust and mutual respect, which forms a excellent platform for solving differences peacefully and quietly.

of course i dont expect jouzou, geagea, kabbarra & alloush to endorse what i am talking about
.


even after the maskhara in the parliament when HA voted for the palestinian "rights" or against the right for the army to vote , gma only criticized FM and forgot that HA did the exact same thing . they completely lost their sense of judgment , and that's enough to doubt their approach towards everything concerning HA .

what was the results of that vote by the way? who voted for what? who spearheaded the efforts to change the situation of the palestinians in a way that doesn't conflict with the Lebanese interests? you seriously are very ill informed. unless you expect that every difference of opinion should lead to a blood bath to satisfy your thirst for drama?

as far as the army is concerned, they shouldn't vote to keep the institution from becoming politicized. it is a subject open for debate whether they should vote or not.

seriously you need to do your homework before making such unfounded accusations.
 

orange infection

Active Member
on the eve of the baabda-alley election results in 2005, GMA held a press conference in which he stated that HA has lost strategically by his alliance with Hariri even though they won the kaza elections, and that they would have had better stuck by GMA. for your info, the MoU took years into working. it wasn't born overnight. so before the MoU, GMA was looking after the interests of HA as part of the whole Lebanese interests, and at the time he continued voicing his concerns until the MoU was signed.

the part that you fail to understand, is the part that makes the most sense. differences, if any, in a country like Lebanon should be solved with the least amount of public and media exposure. of course this means that the over excited idiots starving for media excitement and "don quixote" type of adventures will grow bored. after the MoU was signed, the relation between FPM and HA has been one based on trust and mutual respect, which forms a excellent platform for solving differences peacefully and quietly.

of course i dont expect jouzou, geagea, kabbarra & alloush to endorse what i am talking about
.
dude this is offers nothing new , you are just hoping that , despite FPM's apparent and obvous failure in dealing with HA's weapons , they are actually doing something off media . there's really no facts to endorse your opinion . the MOU was signed 5 years ago , do you expect another MOU to come off suddenly without anyone knowing about it and just like that the HA issue is solved :tongue: ???
shou 3am ned7ak 3a ba3edna ?
what you are saying is the result of a blind faith in gma and not that of an objective approach towards the issue . people need facts .


what was the results of that vote by the way? who voted for what? who spearheaded the efforts to change the situation of the palestinians in a way that doesn't conflict with the Lebanese interests? you seriously are very ill informed. unless you expect that every difference of opinion should lead to a blood bath to satisfy your thirst for drama?

as far as the army is concerned, they shouldn't vote to keep the institution from becoming politicized. it is a subject open for debate whether they should vote or not.

seriously you need to do your homework before making such unfounded accusations.
i am sorry what ? didn't FPM and HA go in 2 different ways one voting yes and the other voting NO ? and at the end of the day gma was attacking FM for their voting .... while nothing went wrong with HA. and the funny thing is that the palestinian issues is part of the MOU and both parties of this MOU voted in 2 different ways . so the MOU is worthless isn't it ?
and by the way i am not mentioning these different in voting either in the army's thing of the palestinian thing to go off topic and discuss these isuues , i am showing how FPM is incapable of criticizing HA . on both occasions gma attacked FM and PSP for their voting and remained quiet about HA .and now you want to tell me that FPM have a single clue about HA's weapons ? lol FPM is as clueless as any other party about this issue , but the difference is that they actually think they are playing a role . so who's Don Quixote again ???
 

J. Abizeid

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem are all the weapons outside the context of the state.

You could have fooled me.
Since your camp doesn’t seem to be concerned about the PLO arms in Lebanon.
How about if we gave HA arms to the PLO, and while at it give the Lebanese army arms to the PLO and who knows, maybe Israel would also contribute its fair share of arms to the PLO.
That’s one way of establishing peace for Lebanon/ New Palestine and its immediate neighbors.
 

PFC

Legendary Member
PFC's are a weak choice, i prefer using I beams coz the get better spans and less twisting.

FYI, It was the Lebanese Army who fought the terrorists in Naher el Berid, Not Hizbullah, actually it was Hassan Nisrallah who called the Berid Camp a red line, or have you forgotten.

Get your facts straight PFC, dont twist them.

Cheers

i am sure that it was the army in naher el bared and they lost 180 martyrs in one month,.... i am talking about your side,and what happened before in tripoli and wissam el hassan role and the army being slaughtered by a bunch of salafis and wahhabis
again learn to read ...
 

CedarJet

Well-Known Member
You could have fooled me.
Since your camp doesn’t seem to be concerned about the PLO arms in Lebanon.
How about if we gave HA arms to the PLO, and while at it give the Lebanese army arms to the PLO and who knows, maybe Israel would also contribute its fair share of arms to the PLO.
That’s one way of establishing peace for Lebanon/ New Palestine and its immediate neighbors.

Please add the weapons of the fouhoud tarik el jdideh, and all fm's weapons, the islamists weapons, the psp's heavy artillery, the lf's weapons, and every other household who's got unlicenced weapons.

Sure hezballa has heavy weapons, missles, etc, that are only matched by the plo's weapons. Every political side has light-heavy weapons in their depots. We've seen this countless amount of times.
 

L'arbalette

Well-Known Member
Please add the weapons of the fouhoud tarik el jdideh, and all fm's weapons, the islamists weapons, the psp's heavy artillery, the lf's weapons, and every other household who's got unlicenced weapons.

Sure hezballa has heavy weapons, missles, etc, that are only matched by the plo's weapons. Every political side has light-heavy weapons in their depots. We've seen this countless amount of times.

No, no, no, no... Only HA, Marada and SSNP have weapons... And the Palestinians, the Sunni extremists, etc. are actually all HA's agents... FM, LF, etc. are all democrats, who want to build the state's institutions and make sure the Army is strong enough to defend the country...
 
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