• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

How to abolish the sectarian system in Lebanon

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@loubnaniTO,

I guess and since you make the title of the thread asking the question how to abolish the confessional system is to start at the base. This is society itself.

@Indie believes that the actual identity of the Lebanese Christians is a biological heritage of Christianity, something she describes as Jewishness is to Judaism. She makes a reference to the right to sovereignty established by the imperial right of Christianity over Syria and Lebanon.

I make the claim that Christianity and Islam are nothing but ideologies of imperial orders that governed Syria and Lebanon. Before Christianity itself people lived over these territories. I also argue that the state defines the legal and the historical identities of the citizen in the state.

Consequently, the change in the system is what would bring the change in the constructed identity of the citizens in the state.

The evidence to my argument is the Israeli identity. An Israeli was a Jewish colonist in the imperial order of the Holy Roman Empire. The Israeli citizenship was defined with the birth of Israel that includes Arabs and Jews
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Thanks for creating the new thread @loubnaniTO

By General Edward Spears I think.

Right. One man, on his own, created the whole system. And you think I lack insight :)

@loubnaniTO,

I guess and since you make the title of the thread asking the question how to abolish the confessional system is to start at the base. This is society itself.

After claiming I lack insight for insisting that the system is not solely the government's responsibility, now you claim that to abolish the system we need to start at the base / society level. Contradiction much?

@Indie believes that the actual identity of the Lebanese Christians is a biological heritage of Christianity, something she describes as Jewishness is to Judaism. She makes a reference to the right to sovereignty established by the imperial right of Christianity over Syria and Lebanon.

I make the claim that Christianity and Islam are nothing but ideologies of imperial orders that governed Syria and Lebanon. Before Christianity itself people lived over these territories. I also argue that the state defines the legal and the historical identities of the citizen in the state.

Consequently, the change in the system is what would bring the change in the constructed identity of the citizens in the state.

Your ability to lie and invent arguments is uncanny. Either that or you have some serious reading comprehension issues.

Provide the posts where I supposedly said this.

The evidence to my argument is the Israeli identity. An Israeli was a Jewish colonist in the imperial order of the Holy Roman Empire. The Israeli citizenship was defined with the birth of Israel that includes Arabs and Jews

This is your evidence? lol...
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This is your evidence? lol...

Here is another one. Lebanese Christians see themselves in terms of confession in Lebanon, while in Canada they see themselves as Canadian citizens, either English speaking or French speaking Canadian citizens.

Can you explain why? who constructed the identity of the French and English Canadian as a linguistic distinction.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Here is another one. Lebanese Christians see themselves in terms of confession in Lebanon, while in Canada they see themselves as Canadian citizens, either English speaking or French speaking Canadian citizens.

Can you explain why? who constructed the identity of the French and English Canadian as a linguistic distinction.

I don't know what you're talking about. All the Lebanese I know see themselves as Lebanese with the Canadian citizenship or Lebanese-Canadian. What's more, the Christian Lebanese-Canadians still identify as Christian and same with Muslims. When they hear of what's happening in Lebanon, they have the same views / reactions as they would if they were living in Lebanon. And if similar situations happened in Canada, they would feel the same way as well.

And this is not only true for those of Lebanese origin, but for French and English Canadians as well. Especially the French. You try to threaten their way of life and see how they'll respond.
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I don't know what you're talking about. All the Lebanese I know see themselves as Lebanese with the Canadian citizenship or Lebanese-Canadian. What's more, the Christian Lebanese-Canadians still identify as Christian and same with Muslims. When they hear of what's happening in Lebanon, they have the same views / reactions as they would if they were living in Lebanon. And if similar situations happened in Canada, they would feel the same way as well.

And this is not only true for those of Lebanese origin, but for French and English Canadians as well. Especially the French. You try to threaten their way of life and see how they'll respond.

You see, I am not speaking about how the individual subjectively sees oneself and their religiosity. I am speaking about how the state defines and constructs the identity of a Canadian citizen. I am saying the state constructs civil and political identities and identities change by the change of this who is in power.

Nothing in my Canadian identity has a religion or a sect associated with it. I am only Canadian in this state called Canada. The only distinction to be made is based on language where we have French speaking Canadians and English speaking Canadians, we also have First Nations. In this definition Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Jew are not categories of public identity and public life. They are not matters of privilege. The state does not impose a religious identity on the Canadian citizen. I am as Canadian as you are. This is the public identity that the state defines.

I can vote in Quebec, by moving there and establishing residency, even when I do not speak French. In Canada I am a Canadian, anywhere in Canada I can be a resident . I can practice my civil and political rights.

There are religious people in Canada, Muslims and Christians, some of these groups are radical and dangerous, and may threaten national security due to the fact that Canada is a multi-cultural society. But, these groups are not considered government, they are terrorists and they are a threat to Canadian values.

The state defines you as a French speaking Canadian, English speaking
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You see, I am not speaking about how the individual subjectively sees oneself and their religiosity. I am speaking about how the state defines and constructs the identity of a Canadian citizen. I am saying the state constructs civil and political identities and identities change by the change of this who is in power.

Nothing in my Canadian identity has a religion or a sect associated with it. I am only Canadian in this state called Canada. The only distinction to be made is based on language where we have French speaking Canadians and English speaking Canadians, we also have First Nations. In this definition Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Jew are not categories of public identity and public life. They are not matters of privilege. The state does not impose a religious identity on the Canadian citizen. I am as Canadian as you are. This is the public identity that the state defines.

I can vote in Quebec, by moving there and establishing residency, even when I do not speak French. In Canada I am a Canadian, anywhere in Canada I can be a resident . I can practice my civil and political rights.

There are religious people in Canada, Muslims and Christians, some of these groups are radical and dangerous, and may threaten national security due to the fact that Canada is a multi-cultural society. But, these groups are not considered government, they are terrorists and they are a threat to Canadian values.

The state defines you as a French speaking Canadian, English speaking

The government of Canada didn't appear out of nowhere. They were created by the citizens, in a specific set of circumstances, and a specific environment. The Canadian politicians didn't come out of nowhere to impose their standards, either. They come from the population of Canada. There is a give and take between the government, the individuals, the corporations, and the global players which results in the "Canadian system." That system, btw, is not static...it changes according to that "give and take."
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The government of Canada didn't appear out of nowhere. They were created by the citizens, in a specific set of circumstances, and a specific environment. The Canadian politicians didn't come out of nowhere to impose their standards, either. They come from the population of Canada. There is a give and take between the government, the individuals, the corporations, and the global players which results in the "Canadian system." That system, btw, is not static...it changes according to that "give and take."

Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy established by the British Monarchy. The Constitution Act, 1867 created Canada and recognized both French and English languages of Canada. It was July 1st and we celebrate the date each year as Canada Day. The Constitution Act was amended in 1982 by Pierre Trudeau including in it the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We are evolutionists and not revolutionists is the first thing we learn to distinguish ourselves as being Canadian and not American. This is because in Canada, the Queen is sovereign, people are not sovereign. In the United States the people are sovereign since they rebelled against the King of England and established a Republic,

Canada is a state constituted from above and legitimized by the people.

Consequently a Constitution drafted by an elite and legitimized by the people is how governments are constituted.
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Yes, America is unique, but Canada is a beautiful place. I invite you to meet its people.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Let's just agree that Canada is awful and you both should move the the great US of A.

Let's just agree that Mighty Goat is arguing for the sake of arguing, and I'm getting bored of repeating myself. Care to entertain her while I go and...have a life? :p
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This is how:

الباب السادس: أحكام نهائية مؤقتة



- المادة 95 (المعدلة بالقانون الدستوري الصادر في 9/11/1943 وبالقانون الدستوري الصادر في 21/9/1990)
على مجلس النواب المنتخب على أساس المناصفة بين المسلمين والمسيحيين اتخاذ الإجراءات الملائمة لتحقيق إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وفق خطة مرحلية وتشكيل هيئة وطنية برئاسة رئيس الجمهورية، تضم بالإضافة إلى رئيس مجلس النواب ورئيس مجلس الوزراء شخصيات سياسية وفكرية واجتماعية.
مهمة الهيئة دراسة واقتراح الطرق الكفيلة بإلغاء الطائفية وتقديمها إلى مجلسي النواب والوزراء ومتابعة تنفيذ الخطة المرحلية.
وفي المرحلة الانتقالية:
أ- تمثل الطوائف بصورة عادلة في تشكيل الوزارة.
ب- تلغى قاعدة التمثيل الطائفي ويعتمد الاختصاص والكفاءة في الوظائف العامة والقضاء والمؤسسات العسكرية والأمنية والمؤسسات العامة والمختلطة وفقاً لمقتضيات الوفاق الوطني باستثناء وظائف الفئة الأولى فيها وفي ما يعادل الفئة الأولى فيها وتكون هذه الوظائف مناصفة بين المسيحيين والمسلمين دون تخصيص أية وظيفة لأية طائفة مع التقيد بمبدأي الاختصاص والكفاءة.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top