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How Trudeau is leading Canada to bankruptcy

Muki

Muki

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What do you mean by the bigger picture?
That issues like health care (and education like you mentioned) are important for and perhaps form the largest part of the well-being of families and communities. It is this link, the bigger picture, that many people either miss completely, or underemphasize.
 
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  • proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Why do you think medical care in Canada is of low quality? It is not. It's just that if your condition is not urgent, you might have to wait before seeing a specialist. Also, because some specialists are hard to come by. But the quality of the care, itself, is good. And, knowing you don't have to worry about money if you or your loved ones get sick is truly a blessing.
    When my fellow Americans seek medical care outside the country it is because they are looking for less expensive service.

    When Canadians seek medical help in US it could not possibly be because they are looking for less expensive service.

    I am sure you can connect the dots yourself.

    "But the quality of the care, itself, is good" - quality of medical care is not comprised of skills of the doctors alone.

    PS. I heard of cases when Americans buy cheaper drugs in Canada (the same kind sold in US, but cheaper price).
    However, I have not heard of cases where Americans go to Canada for health services.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That issues like health care (and education like you mentioned) are important for and perhaps form the largest part of the well-being of families and communities. It is this link, the bigger picture, that many people either miss completely, or underemphasize.
    Of course they are important. However, we should not mix-up social welfare and liberalism or neo-liberalism. They are not the same thing.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    When my fellow Americans seek medical care outside the country it is because they are looking for less expensive service.

    When Canadians seek medical help in US it could not possibly be because they are looking for less expensive service.

    I am sure you can connect the dots yourself.

    "But the quality of the care, itself, is good" - quality of medical care is not comprised of skills of the doctors alone.

    PS. I heard of cases when Americans buy cheaper drugs in Canada (the same kind sold in US, but cheaper price).
    However, I have not heard of cases where Americans go to Canada for health services.
    There is no universal healthcare in the US, what are you talking about?
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Of course they are important. However, we should not mix-up social welfare and liberalism or neo-liberalism. They are not the same thing.
    I think that there is some overlap. I suppose we will discuss this later, though.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I am not asking. I am stating that there is no universal heathcare in the US and that is why so many go to Cuba for healthcare. It is a known fact.
    So, I said that 2+2==4 and you confirmed it.

    OK, I go it.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    In the shameful Trudeau era, having a career in a field related to terrorism gives one millions of dollars as a reward.... Why study and work hard when much more money can be earned à la Omar Khadr way.... I bet part of this money will be donated by Khadr to support his Jihadi brethern somewhere in the world....


    Ottawa aurait versé 10,5 millions à Omar Khadr


    Le gouvernement du Canada a remis une somme de 10,5 millions de dollars à l'ancien détenu de la prison américaine de Guantanamo Bay Omar Khadr en guise d'entente pour régler une poursuite en matière de violation des droits.

    L'entente devrait être confirmée par le ministre de la Sécurité publique, Ralph Goodale, et la ministre de la Justice, Jody Wilson-Raybould, lors d'une conférence de presse prévue vendredi à 11 h 45, selon CBC.

    Une source a expliqué à La Presse canadienne que le gouvernement Trudeau voulait agir avant qu'un avocat ne se présente en Cour supérieure de l'Ontario, ce vendredi, pour empêcher tout versement au nom de la veuve d'un soldat américain tué, Chris Speer, et du soldat Layne Morris blessé par une grenade lancée par Omar Khadr, en 2002.

    Il y a deux ans, Tabitha Speer et Layne Morris ont obtenu gain de cause devant un tribunal de l'Utah pour poursuivre Omar Khadr pour 134,1 millions de dollars US. Cependant, des experts prétendent qu'en vertu de ce jugement, les plaignants auront beaucoup de mal à obtenir de l'argent d'Omar Khadr qui vit maintenant à Edmonton.

    On ignore si l'avocat de la veuve de Chris Speer et de Layne Morris se présentera quand même en Cour supérieure de l'Ontario vendredi compte tenu du versement de l'argent à l'ancien détenu.

    Omar Khadr, un Canadien, avait 15 ans lorsqu'il a été capturé par les troupes américaines lors de la guerre en Afghanistan. Il a été accusé de crimes de guerre.

    Il a plaidé coupable en 2010 et été condamné à huit ans de prison, en plus du temps déjà passé derrière les barreaux. Il est rentré au Canada deux ans plus tard pour purger le reste de sa peine et a été libéré en mai 2015 pendant que ses avocats contestaient ses aveux de culpabilité qui, selon M.Khadr, ont été faits sous la contrainte.

    Omar Khadr a passé 10 ans à Guantanamo Bay. Son cas a attiré l'attention un peu partout dans le monde après que certains l'eurent qualifié d'enfant-soldat.

    Ottawa aurait versé 10,5 millions à Omar Khadr | Politique canadienne
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    In the shameful Trudeau era, having a career in a field related to terrorism gives one millions of dollars as a reward.... Why study and work hard when much more money can be earned à la Omar Khadr way.... I bet part of this money will be donated by Khadr to support his Jihadi brethern somewhere in the world....


    Ottawa aurait versé 10,5 millions à Omar Khadr


    Le gouvernement du Canada a remis une somme de 10,5 millions de dollars à l'ancien détenu de la prison américaine de Guantanamo Bay Omar Khadr en guise d'entente pour régler une poursuite en matière de violation des droits.

    L'entente devrait être confirmée par le ministre de la Sécurité publique, Ralph Goodale, et la ministre de la Justice, Jody Wilson-Raybould, lors d'une conférence de presse prévue vendredi à 11 h 45, selon CBC.

    Une source a expliqué à La Presse canadienne que le gouvernement Trudeau voulait agir avant qu'un avocat ne se présente en Cour supérieure de l'Ontario, ce vendredi, pour empêcher tout versement au nom de la veuve d'un soldat américain tué, Chris Speer, et du soldat Layne Morris blessé par une grenade lancée par Omar Khadr, en 2002.

    Il y a deux ans, Tabitha Speer et Layne Morris ont obtenu gain de cause devant un tribunal de l'Utah pour poursuivre Omar Khadr pour 134,1 millions de dollars US. Cependant, des experts prétendent qu'en vertu de ce jugement, les plaignants auront beaucoup de mal à obtenir de l'argent d'Omar Khadr qui vit maintenant à Edmonton.

    On ignore si l'avocat de la veuve de Chris Speer et de Layne Morris se présentera quand même en Cour supérieure de l'Ontario vendredi compte tenu du versement de l'argent à l'ancien détenu.

    Omar Khadr, un Canadien, avait 15 ans lorsqu'il a été capturé par les troupes américaines lors de la guerre en Afghanistan. Il a été accusé de crimes de guerre.

    Il a plaidé coupable en 2010 et été condamné à huit ans de prison, en plus du temps déjà passé derrière les barreaux. Il est rentré au Canada deux ans plus tard pour purger le reste de sa peine et a été libéré en mai 2015 pendant que ses avocats contestaient ses aveux de culpabilité qui, selon M.Khadr, ont été faits sous la contrainte.

    Omar Khadr a passé 10 ans à Guantanamo Bay. Son cas a attiré l'attention un peu partout dans le monde après que certains l'eurent qualifié d'enfant-soldat.

    Ottawa aurait versé 10,5 millions à Omar Khadr | Politique canadienne
    You should be blaming the Supreme Court of Canada, not Trudeau.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You should be blaming the Supreme Court of Canada, not Trudeau.
    The Trudeau government should have had a better argument and defense strategy, and they would have easily won their case because the guy is a convicted terrorist already. He doesn't deserve ten million dollars reward nor an apology from the government. Trudeau's government is setting a very dangerous precedent, because not only they are rewarding terrorism connected jihadist who exploit the so-called human rights but they are also endangering the national security of the country by tolerating and rewarding anyone with suspicious past.

    The post-Trudeau Canada would be very different from the country I first emigrated to many years ago.... Sad reality...
     
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    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The Trudeau government should have had a better argument and defense strategy, and they would have easily won their case because the guy is a convicted terrorist already. He doesn't deserve ten million dollars reward nor an apology from the government. Trudeau's government is setting a very dangerous precedent, because not only they are rewarding terrorism connected jihadist who exploit the so-called human rights but they are also endangering the national security of the country by tolerating and rewarding anyone with suspicious past.

    The post-Trudeau Canada would be very different from the country I first emigrated to many years ago.... Sad reality...
    Trudeau had nothing to do with this particular outcome, or events that lead to such outcome. You are using him as a scapegoat because he happened to be Prime Minister of Canada when this case was settled.

    As far as particulars... if Khadr was tortured, gave confession under duress, or was not given a fair trial, and the plaintiffs were able to prove such in court, then regardless of who the plaintiff is this is a win for Canadian rule of law. Due process can't be suspended for people you do not like... even if they're convicted terrorists.

    This is hardly the 'dangerous precedent'. Maybe you already forgot about 'Maher Arar'.
     
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    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Trudeau had nothing to do with this particular outcome, or events that lead to such outcome. You are using him as a scapegoat.

    As far as particulars... if Khadr was tortured, gave confession under duress, or was not given a fair trial, and the plaintiffs were able to prove such in court, then regardless of who the plaintiff is this is a win for Canadian rule of law. Due process can't be suspended for people you do not like... even if they're convicted terrorists.
    I can't believe you are in favor of giving a convicted terrorist 10 million dollars compensation using laws that are in some cases close to a joke.

    Next time someone like Khadr decides to blow up people in your neighbourhood for jihading purposes don't come whining because your laxist attitude is the main responsible for the spread of Islamic terrorism in the West.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I can't believe you are in favor of giving a convicted terrorist 10 million dollars compensation using laws that are in some cases close to a joke.

    Next time someone like Khadr decides to blow up people in your neighbourhood for jihading purposes don't come whining because your laxist attitude is the main responsible for the spread of Islamic terrorism in the West.
    Khadr was convicted by a military tribunal using methods which violated Canadian law, thus leading to this settlement.

    The country you emigrated to years ago never changed -- and neither did you, it seems.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Khadr was convicted by a military tribunal using methods which violated Canadian law, thus leading to this settlement.

    The country you emigrated to years ago never changed -- and neither did you, it seems.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    If rights don't apply to despicable people, then they aren't really rights.

    If you establish that a government is allowed to violate the rights of citizens who are obviously guilty, or who are guilty of particularly heinous crimes, that you have effectively eliminated the protections they are supposed to provide for everyone.

    As such, I would hold that restitution for a violation of rights needs to come before and regardless of whatever else the person has done or has been accused of doing. This can sometimes lead to outcomes I don't particularly like or benefit people I do not like, like this case, but I suspect I would like rather less living under a government that was allowed to develop for any significant period without being forced to treat that as a red line that it should not cross.

    Omar Khadr was a child captive of al Qaeda. He never got a trial, certainly one wasn't afforded to him as a juvenile Canadian citizen or petitioned to be tried as an adult by the previous Harper administration. We have no idea if he was cajoled, under duress, of his own volition, or even the one who actually did it. The charges against him were leveled by the same people who claimed there were WMDs in Iraq, at a kangaroo court in Guantanamo Bay.

    Unless you think draconian punishment and retributive feudalism are acceptable practices in today's society, the rights of Speer and his family don't provide them the entitlement to deny the constitutional rights of anyone in the absence of a fair trial. If it were my family, I would expect the Prime Minister to bring them to trial, promptly; and, if found guilty, to impose the maximum penalties applicable. Harper undermined their rights, not Trudeau as you would have everyone believe in your hyperpartisan false narrative.

    [article]IV. Conclusion

    [48] The appeal is allowed in part. Mr. Khadr’s application for judicial review is allowed in part. This Court declares that through the conduct of Canadian officials in the course of interrogations in 2003-2004, as established on the evidence before us, Canada actively participated in a process contrary to Canada’s international human rights obligations and contributed to Mr. Khadr’s ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter , contrary to the principles of fundamental justice. Costs are awarded to Mr. Khadr.[/article]
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    BTW, @kmarthe, have you met my nigga habeas corpus?
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    If rights don't apply to despicable people, then they aren't really rights.

    I.......

    Omar Khadr was a child captive of al Qaeda. He never got a trial, certainly one wasn't afforded to him as a juvenile Canadian citizen or petitioned to be tried as an adult by the previous Harper administration. We have no idea if he was cajoled, under duress, of his own volition, or even the one who actually did it. The charges against him were leveled by the same people who claimed there were WMDs in Iraq, at a kangaroo court in Guantanamo Bay.

    .....

    [article]IV. Conclusion

    [48] The appeal is allowed in part. Mr. Khadr’s application for judicial review is allowed in part. This Court declares that through the conduct of Canadian officials in the course of interrogations in 2003-2004, as established on the evidence before us, Canada actively participated in a process contrary to Canada’s international human rights obligations and contributed to Mr. Khadr’s ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter , contrary to the principles of fundamental justice. Costs are awarded to Mr. Khadr.[/article]
    Ironically, those are the same people who are guarding Israel day and night and whom you rely on and trust blindly in almost everything... Muki, please spare us the useless philosophical discourse. Again, what you call laws are texts made by governing elites and who change constantly following the interest of those elites or following changing political circumstances. Look at Theresa May in the UK, now she starts talking about changing the human right texts because of the increasing terrorism threats facing her country.

    BTW, why don't you look at the reaction of the average Canadian citizen regarding Trudeau's compensation package for the terrorist Khadr? Check the social media and people's comments! While every Canadian is struggling to pay his/her bills our clown PM gives millions of our tax money to a convicted terrorist! Why ten million also? why not few thousands??? Walla money bayyo la Trudeau heyda?!? :mad::mad:

    The Trudeau dude is the most incompetent guy ever to lead the country, and those who elected him are starting to regret their mistake... I never voted for him because he was never at the height of the challenges our world is going through and he is turning to be worse than I expected. Never again a Trudeau as you will see in the next elections, that if he manages to finish his four years... If you care about him that much take him to Hollywood, there he would do tremendously good!

    BTW, @kmarthe, have you met my nigga habeas corpus?
    La2 :mad:
     
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