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Huawei: When reality hits home and Trump is America CEO.

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
It's not really a decline actually. Technically, it's an expected growth, that will not take place for the year to come and the next, probably.
2 Years stagnation if you want...But still, with 100 Billion Dollars revenues per year.
That's still a lot of cash and they have much more in reserve to sustain much worse than that and still keep growing.
OK, maybe, but general rule is that no company can defeat state and especially when it is state as rich as USA.
That is why nobody ever bets against a state.
 
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  • Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    OK, maybe, but general rule is that no company can defeat state and especially when it is state as rich as USA.
    That is why nobody ever bets against a state.
    Yes it's true. But in this case, it happens that there is also a strong State, and a whole population. who have the means and firm resolve to stand behind that company. Unlike the case of Toshiba, or Alsthom, for example. So this might change the odds.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Yes it's true. But in this case, it happens that there is also a strong State, and a whole population. who have the means and firm resolve to stand behind that company. Unlike the case of Toshiba, or Alsthom, for example. So this might change the odds.
    OK, we shall see.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Only Google services will not be available. And the only service that really counts, would be Google maps. The rest: Frata. (never used any of them and never felt the need for it)

    The rest are available in apps, free to download and use, with or without Google's Android system. (Although they are already outmatched by others and might soon become a thing of the past...Life expectancy of Apps is becoming short these days).

    Try Aptoide. I use it a lot to install Android based apps that Google's Android doesn't offer for tablets and Android TV boxes.

    As for Facebook...What a curse! Good riddance. Except Arabs, most people are turning away from it.

    So all in all, your "concerns" are unfounded, and at best, negligible.

    frata
    so

    facbook
    twitter
    instagram
    whatsapp
    tumbler

    frata
    and billions can do without them overnight...
    good to know
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    frata
    so

    facbook
    twitter
    instagram
    whatsapp
    tumbler

    frata
    and billions can do without them overnight...
    good to know
    None of these are Google apps (frata) and theyt will still be available. (Except Facebook which is good)
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    None of these are Google apps (frata) and theyt will still be available. (Except Facebook which is good)
    whatspp
    instgram
    owned by facebook


    so no, they wont be available

    and anything owned by google as well ( youtibe, etc)
    New Huawei smartphones will also lose access to popular Google apps. ... licence: New devices won't have Google apps like YouTube, Maps ... nor will its future handsets be able to access Google apps as well as the Google ...

    AHHH ANOTHER FRATA
    you cant access your Gmail too

    to many frata

    but you can use , chinese alternatives for Gmail
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    whatspp
    instgram
    owned by facebook


    so no, they wont be available

    and anything owned by google as well ( youtibe, etc)
    New Huawei smartphones will also lose access to popular Google apps. ... licence: New devices won't have Google apps like YouTube, Maps ... nor will its future handsets be able to access Google apps as well as the Google ...

    AHHH ANOTHER FRATA
    you cant access your Gmail too

    to many frata

    but you can use , chinese alternatives for Gmail

    Hanna...These apps will not come "pre-installed" on Huawei phones. That's all.
    Which means you will have to manually download them. And if not from Google store, then from many other stores.

    And the frata I was talking about are the Google services apps (other than Google maps). Frata indeed. Gmail app included. (You do know that there are lots of apps to service your numerous e-mails accounts out there, do you.)

    As for Chinese alternatives, know that the users Worldwide of some Chinese apps exceed those of Whatsapp, Facebook or Instagram...So don't belittle them. They count, and they count a lot.

    Again, the only thing that counts here is Google Android and services. The moment Huawei launches its own OS, then this problem is no more.
    Apps will still be downloadable and usable whether they are downloaded from Google store or from any of the many other stores, and maybe Huawei's own store.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Hanna...These apps will not come "pre-installed" on Huawei phones. That's all.
    Which means you will have to manually download them. And if not from Google store, then from many other stores.

    And the frata I was talking about are the Google services apps (other than Google maps). Frata indeed. Gmail app included. (You do know that there are lots of apps to service your numerous e-mails accounts out there, do you.)

    As for Chinese alternatives, know that the users Worldwide of some Chinese apps exceed those of Whatsapp, Facebook or Instagram...So don't belittle them. They count, and they count a lot.

    Again, the only thing that counts here is Google Android and services. The moment Huawei launches its own OS, then this problem is no more.
    Apps will still be downloadable and usable whether they are downloaded from Google store or from any of the many other stores, and maybe Huawei's own store.
    "Which means you will have to manually download them" - it will not help, restriction is on software, but on hardware (the phone(s) itself).
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "Which means you will have to manually download them" - it will not help, restriction is on software, but on hardware (the phone(s) itself).
    You can't restrict an android app from being used on an android phone. But you can restrict an android phone from using an android app.
    Apps based on android system can be used on any hardware that function on android system.

    Take Nvidia or fireTV for example. They use their own Google android based interface, in which you don't have access to a browser. And without a browser, you are restricted in using your device and/or downloading only the apps that Google makes available for you to download on these devices.

    But since it's all based on android systems, which is an open source system, you can still get certain android apps (found on Google store) to download for you another app store like Aptoide, which then enables you to download whatever app you wish to download, Google chrome included.

    See, they gave you a restricted interface, a limited use skin, if you want. But they can't restrict the functionality of the android system itself.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Hanna...These apps will not come "pre-installed" on Huawei phones. That's all.
    Which means you will have to manually download them. And if not from Google store, then from many other stores.

    And the frata I was talking about are the Google services apps (other than Google maps). Frata indeed. Gmail app included. (You do know that there are lots of apps to service your numerous e-mails accounts out there, do you.)

    As for Chinese alternatives, know that the users Worldwide of some Chinese apps exceed those of Whatsapp, Facebook or Instagram...So don't belittle them. They count, and they count a lot.

    Again, the only thing that counts here is Google Android and services. The moment Huawei launches its own OS, then this problem is no more.
    Apps will still be downloadable and usable whether they are downloaded from Google store or from any of the many other stores, and maybe Huawei's own store.

    AS

    i know PINI relied on the access

    my point always been, one you cant access those sites
    most users wont but Huwaei

    thats the way it is
    as most users are connected to such apps.,
    whether that is a good thing for the users or not, is another issue

    yes china have alternatives to all these apps

    but whos outside china wants to ditch the current apps and move to a chinese one ???


    its like Chinese cinemas wants to fight Hollywood
    thats exactly what you are advocating ,WONT WORK .
    majority of users arent ready to ditch youtube,m whatsapp, Gmail, etc for a chine apps

    huwaei and china, needs to sit with trump and offer some reasonable concessions.OTHER THAN THAT , THEY WILL SUFFER MORE THAN WHAT EVER THE USA WILL .

    my whole point is, chgina cant play hardball like before and continue its predatory tactics, especially with the usa
    china has to abide by the rules, like other nations does

    it son yours and mine and the whole world interests that china is checkmated
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    You can't restrict an android app from being used on an android phone. But you can restrict an android phone from using an android app.
    Apps based on android system can be used on any hardware that function on android system.

    Take Nvidia or fireTV for example. They use their own Google android based interface, in which you don't have access to a browser. And without a browser, you are restricted in using your device and/or downloading only the apps that Google makes available for you to download on these devices.

    But since it's all based on android systems, which is an open source system, you can still get certain android apps (found on Google store) to download for you another app store like Aptoide, which then enables you to download whatever app you wish to download, Google chrome included.

    See, they gave you a restricted interface, a limited use skin, if you want. But they can't restrict the functionality of the android system itself.
    "You can't restrict an android app from being used on an android phone" - easily.

    In lamest terms:
    1. Each of our internet connected devices have unique signature including type of hardware used.
    2. When you connect to other side they know everything about you and can easily make a decision whether to reply to you or not.

    To beat the above sometime it is possible to spoof certain parts of information sent to your server.
    However, in our case it would mean that Huawei would have to spoof its identity and try to show itself as something else, Ex: LG or Sumsung, etc ..
    If Huawei will try to do this, then they will get into even deeper hot water then they are today.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "You can't restrict an android app from being used on an android phone" - easily.

    In lamest terms:
    1. Each of our internet connected devices have unique signature including type of hardware used.
    2. When you connect to other side they know everything about you and can easily make a decision whether to reply to you or not.

    To beat the above sometime it is possible to spoof certain parts of information sent to your server.
    However, in our case it would mean that Huawei would have to spoof its identity and try to show itself as something else, Ex: LG or Sumsung, etc ..
    If Huawei will try to do this, then they will get into even deeper hot water then they are today.

    outside china

    huwaei is now considered a phone, not a smart one ,
    basically range for such tel are at best $50 to $90 dollars

    no one will shell %650 for a mate 10 pro , like i did last year

    china better huyrry up with a deal or huwaei is dead
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    china thinks they can keep stealing us technology and get away with it

    The US and China have been locked in a race for the world's most powerful supercomputer. China was in the lead with its Sunway TaihuLight, which has a 93 petaflop capacity. But the US surpassed that last year, when it released the Summit, which can run at 200 petaflops -- or 200 quadrillion calculations per second. Now, the US is using export restrictions in an attempt to thwart China's supercomputing efforts.
    The Commerce Department has reportedly issued export restrictions that cut five major Chinese supercomputer developers off from US technology. According to the new rule, the firms have been "acting contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States." The developers include Sugon of Beijing, three of its affiliates and Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology. They'll now need a waiver from the US government before buying American technology and components, and The New York Times says, "the move could all but cripple these Chinese businesses."
    The firms have been working on China's next supercomputer, which could perform as many as one quintillion calculations per second. The US is reportedly concerned about the military applications that the supercomputer might lead to. As The Wall Street Journal points out, supercomputing is essential for the development of nuclear weapons, encryption, missile defense and more.
    The export restrictions are the latest in the Trump administration's attempt to limit China's access to US technology. Those efforts have undoubtedly had the largest impact on Huawei. But companies in the US, including Intel and Nvidia, which sell components to Sugon, could also be impacted by these new restrictions.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    AS

    i know PINI relied on the access

    my point always been, one you cant access those sites
    most users wont but Huwaei

    thats the way it is
    as most users are connected to such apps.,
    whether that is a good thing for the users or not, is another issue

    yes china have alternatives to all these apps

    but whos outside china wants to ditch the current apps and move to a chinese one ???


    its like Chinese cinemas wants to fight Hollywood
    thats exactly what you are advocating ,WONT WORK .
    majority of users arent ready to ditch youtube,m whatsapp, Gmail, etc for a chine apps

    huwaei and china, needs to sit with trump and offer some reasonable concessions.OTHER THAN THAT , THEY WILL SUFFER MORE THAN WHAT EVER THE USA WILL .

    my whole point is, chgina cant play hardball like before and continue its predatory tactics, especially with the usa
    china has to abide by the rules, like other nations does

    it son yours and mine and the whole world interests that china is checkmated
    "You can't restrict an android app from being used on an android phone" - easily.

    In lamest terms:
    1. Each of our internet connected devices have unique signature including type of hardware used.
    2. When you connect to other side they know everything about you and can easily make a decision whether to reply to you or not.

    To beat the above sometime it is possible to spoof certain parts of information sent to your server.
    However, in our case it would mean that Huawei would have to spoof its identity and try to show itself as something else, Ex: LG or Sumsung, etc ..
    If Huawei will try to do this, then they will get into even deeper hot water then they are today.
    Without going into extrapolations and technical debates about IP addresses or Mac addresses which is becoming miles away from what is at stake here, I suggest you both read this, which explain enough what the whole matter is about, and after that, anyone can believe whatever he likes to believe:

    Facebook is stopping Huawei from pre-installing its apps

    By Sam Byford@345triangle Jun 7, 2019,

    Facebook won’t allow Huawei to pre-install its apps on smartphones anymore, Reuters is reporting. It’s the latest example of Western tech companies cutting ties with the beleaguered Chinese telecom giant after President Trump issued an effective trade ban against it.

    Huawei phone owners will still be able to download and use apps like WhatsApp, Instagram, and Facebook’s main app itself, and they’ll continue to receive updates through the Play store. Huawei just won’t be able to include them out of the box, which it typically does alongside various other pre-loaded services like Twitter.

    Facebook has apparently landed on a different calculus to deal with the trade ban than Google. Google has secured a temporary license to continue to send security updates to existing Huawei phones. Huawei phones currently in stores or “those which have not yet shipped or even been built” will still have the Google services pre-installed. Facebook, Reuters says, is denying pre-installs on “any phone which has not yet left the factory.”

    The implications aren’t necessarily as worrying for Huawei as other prior decisions from Google and ARM, which respectively restrict its ability to use core Android services and develop its own chips. But Facebook’s move closes another potential avenue for Huawei to deliver crucial third-party apps to customers, underlining the fact that it’ll have to go it alone with its own app store.

     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Without going into extrapolations and technical debates about IP addresses or Mac addresses which is becoming miles away from what is at stake here, I suggest you both read this, which explain enough what the whole matter is about, and after that, anyone can believe whatever he likes to believe:

    Facebook is stopping Huawei from pre-installing its apps

    By Sam Byford@345triangle Jun 7, 2019,

    Facebook won’t allow Huawei to pre-install its apps on smartphones anymore, Reuters is reporting. It’s the latest example of Western tech companies cutting ties with the beleaguered Chinese telecom giant after President Trump issued an effective trade ban against it.

    Huawei phone owners will still be able to download and use apps like WhatsApp, Instagram, and Facebook’s main app itself, and they’ll continue to receive updates through the Play store. Huawei just won’t be able to include them out of the box, which it typically does alongside various other pre-loaded services like Twitter.

    Facebook has apparently landed on a different calculus to deal with the trade ban than Google. Google has secured a temporary license to continue to send security updates to existing Huawei phones. Huawei phones currently in stores or “those which have not yet shipped or even been built” will still have the Google services pre-installed. Facebook, Reuters says, is denying pre-installs on “any phone which has not yet left the factory.”

    The implications aren’t necessarily as worrying for Huawei as other prior decisions from Google and ARM, which respectively restrict its ability to use core Android services and develop its own chips. But Facebook’s move closes another potential avenue for Huawei to deliver crucial third-party apps to customers, underlining the fact that it’ll have to go it alone with its own app store.

    It is not the same as what I am talking about.

    Facebook may forbid Huawei to preinstall its app and Huawei may refuse or Huawei may agree and leave it for its users to do it themselves.
    Outcome is still the same - whoever wants to have it will have the Facebook installed on its phone.

    I am talking about denial of service depending on hardware used and it has nothing to do with IP or MAC or such.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    It is not the same as what I am talking about.

    Facebook may forbid Huawei to preinstall its app and Huawei may refuse or Huawei may agree and leave it for its users to do it themselves.
    Outcome is still the same - whoever wants to have it will have the Facebook installed on its phone.
    That's all what I'm saying. Anyone will be able to download and use these Apps.

    I am talking about denial of service depending on hardware used and it has nothing to do with IP or MAC or such.
    Since the app is android based, not only can anyone use it without restriction, but also, can get regular updates. I don't know of any publisher who managed to effect denial of service depending on hardware. Can you be more specific? (Even Apple was easily jail braked at some point, until the hardware itself was limited to restrict it)
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    By the way...Just on a side note here...Compliance with the law requires US companies not to conduct business with Huawei, the company. It does not require them to sabotage the free use of Huawei phones by consumers. Trying to do so will most certainly open the door to legal liabilities.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Anyone will be able to download and use these Apps
    Wrong, "installing" and "using" are two different things - you download, you install, you start and ... nothing comes out of it.

    ... denial of service depending on hardware. Can you be more specific?...
    OK - deny service to calls/requests made by any/all Huawei device.
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That's all what I'm saying. Anyone will be able to download and use these Apps.



    Since the app is android based, not only can anyone use it without restriction, but also, can get regular updates. I don't know of any publisher who managed to effect denial of service depending on hardware. Can you be more specific? (Even Apple was easily jail braked at some point, until the hardware itself was limited to restrict it)
    The app connects to a server
    The server can detect the hardware from which it's being called and based on that it can deny service
    Regardless of how you installed the app.
    (ie you can install the app but you can't use it)
    For example: Youtube not allowing you to access certain videos based on your location due to copyrights, the same can be made based on hardware.

    There's always a workaround, like cracked apps spoofing hardware and such but that's basically a 'use at your own risk' and are behind in terms of updates.


    Jail break is a totally different story, it basically cracks your OS and unlocks your phone locally allowing the installation of non trusted apps and access to certain local system libraries
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Wrong, "installing" and "using" are two different things - you download, you install, you start and ... nothing comes out of it.

    OK - deny service to calls/requests made by any/all Huawei device.

    The app connects to a server
    The server can detect the hardware from which it's being called and based on that it can deny service
    Regardless of how you installed the app.
    (ie you can install the app but you can't use it)
    For example: Youtube not allowing you to access certain videos based on your location due to copyrights, the same can be made based on hardware.

    There's always a workaround, like cracked apps spoofing hardware and such but that's basically a 'use at your own risk' and are behind in terms of updates.


    Jail break is a totally different story, it basically cracks your OS and unlocks your phone locally allowing the installation of non trusted apps and access to certain local system libraries
    Why are we even debating this?

    This kind of actions is not even considered to start with.

    That kind of activities has nothing to do with Facebook cutting commercial ties with Huawei, in compliance with the executive order anymore. This is not about not making business with Huawei anymore.

    This is rather about trying to prevent and force people Worldwide from using Huawei devices, and trampling on consumers rights, let alone breaching commercial laws and treaties.

    That’s illegal to such a high level that would cost anyone who tries it penalties and bans in most countries, especially Europe.

    Apple tried that in its debuts in the smartphone business, when it tried to restrict the use of third parties apps registered in its store, to Apple phones. It was sanctioned for breaching anti-trust laws.

    Facebook can legally decide not to work with this or that Party, but it does not have the right to impose on the user, which machine he could or could not use to access its services, no matter if this could technically be feasible or not, and no matter if this could technically be worked around or not.

    Anyway, like I already said, this is not a matter that anyone is even considering. So let’s keep it real and keep the debate within its factual boundaries.

    Matter of fact is: whether before or after the ban, Apps can be downloaded and used freely on all Huawei phones.

    The only real issue for Huawei is not in the use of apps on it. It’s in the Google android OS and Chips and boards.

    And Huawei has an alternative and the means to push it forward on the market Worldwide.

    What it doesn’t have on the other hand, is the final decision to go ahead and implement it.

    Huawei prefers to keep its commercial partnership with Google, intel and ARM. That has been made clear enough, and it is obviously a positive commercial strategy and ideology from its leader.

    Now I’m afraid that even if the ban is not implemented anymore, the Chinese leadership might still impose on Huawei to drop its commercial ties with its US partners, for commercial security reasons.

    By the way, these events are seriously undermining the US reputation Worldwide, in matter of trust in commercial partnerships. Big corps got the memo clearly and will be working around the clock to find alternative partnerships, if they do not wish some day to become hostages of such behaviors.
     
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