is Canaanites/Phoenicians a Paternal ancestry or a cultural phase ? are Lebanese Semitic or not ?

What

New Member
#1
What most people fail to realize is that Middle Eastern Semitic People are not originally Semites - they were Semitize ( it was part of the cycle of cultural shifts)

The oldest Midwestern Civilization is Sumer they were not Semitic, yet they are closely related to Saudis in fact almost identical .

in the end of the day Semitic is an offshoot of Afro-Asiatic (culture & language) which originated between Egypt and Sudan, by contrast the pre Semitic (culture & language) of the people of the Mideast was shaped in Asia far from Egypt & Sudan and Sumer is an example of many .


is Canaanites/Phoenicians a Paternal ancestry or a cultural phase ?

No, its not a Paternal ancestry ------ its a cultural phase of many cycle of cultural change that stooped with Arabic .

Lebanese have diverse Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) thus they simply don't have a common ancestor - they are mostly descendants of different migrant groups like New Yorkers, for example :

a Lebanese who is Y-dna J1 is closer to a Saudi Arabian Y-dna J1 or Kurdish Y-dna J1 then to other Lebanese who are not Y-dna J1

a Lebanese who is Y-dna J2 will always be closer to a Saudi Y-dna J2 or Kurdish Y-dna J2 then to other Lebanese who are not Y-dna J2


A Maronite Lebanese Who's Paternal Lineages are J2 is closer to a Sunni Saudi or Muslim Lebanese who is J2 ,,,, but a Maronite will always feel closer to a fellow Maronite (even if they realize that they don't share the same paternal Lineages ) then to a Muslim with the same paternal origins ----- because ethnic identity is shaped by mentality - that is shaped by the culture you are born in to & how your family & community raised you to identify with - in short you are born in to it , language is a form of communication not a blood - culture are costumes not blood - religion is culture spirituality you are born in to ( when you decide to change the identity you are born in to this is called cultural shift )


final note :

Autosomal DNA is associated with a certain period of history influenced by geography rather then Paternal origins , many genetic shows are based solely on it , which is very deceiving since they ignore Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) which is literally you real origin, the rest is a side show of geographic settlement history aka Autosomal DNA but not your origin
 
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  • Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    #2
    Why does DNA ancestry matter so much to the Lebanese ? Seriously every month there's a thread about the origin of Lebanese as people as if we're just a homogenous glob and haven't been mingling with other nationalities and races for ages!

    What what
     

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #3
    The Lebanese are Phoenician and not Canaanite.
    Canaan is Hamite.
    The Phoenicians are the Hebrews and they are Semites.
     

    What

    New Member
    #4
    The original Mideastern are most likely Y-dna J ( this includes original Lebanese ) the rest are immigrants .

    Phoenicians is a named coined by the Greeks ---- furthermore Phoenicians cant be originally Semitic - ( Which is African & not Mideastern Asian languages) which use to dominate before Semitic took over the linguistic culture of the Mideast, retiring the previous Mideastern Asian languages .
     

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #5
    The original Mideastern are most likely Y-dna J ( this includes original Lebanese ) the rest are immigrants .

    Phoenicians is a named coined by the Greeks ---- furthermore Phoenicians cant be originally Semitic - ( Which is African & not Mideastern Asian languages) which use to dominate before Semitic took over the linguistic culture of the Mideast, retiring the previous Mideastern Asian languages .
    This explanation of the name Phoenician is not accurate and there are no Greek sources that confirm that the word Phoenician is indicative of a dye.
    It is more plausible to say that the name is derived from the word phenom or phonetics.
    The fact that the Phoenician alphabet is the same as the alphabet used by King Solomon as well as the same alphabet of the Samaritan Torah which the oldest text of the Torah only indicates at the fact that the Phoenicians were The Hebrews and that they were also the Israelites.
     

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #7
    Simple fact : Phoenician is not a race or origin - its a historic phase & period of many in history .
    This is certainly not a fact. It is a statement. You should provide material evidence to support your statement so that we can accept it as a truthful proposition.
     

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #9
    45017712_718037408573543_4004914182972506112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeFyFmtJzY3E-HDVAvh90loOcu_667NBjvF7njgVY_ht-bpCnS-neKXmHoOIdCzUu-aGgn3aFb37U20sRhS7MM7nTlpjPYM8oqok-RO5n40c6g&_nc_ht=scontent-los2-1.xx&oh=b8a9eb1ee3419136a3ef44c4e8c575bb&oe=5C7A02E4


    Babel is Akkadian and so in Nineva

    Know your history .

    بابل هي مثل نينوى واشور مدينة اكادية

    =======
    صحيح ان اهل بابل عرفوا بالبابليين نسبة الى مدينتهم بابل، ولكنهم كانوا اكاديين وينطقون بالاكادية وبها دون الملك حمورابي قوانيه وشريعته. والملاحظ ان معظم الكتاب والمؤرخين اللذين تطرقوا لتاريخ هذه المدينة العظيمة يتجنبون ذكر لغة وهوية بابل الحقيقية، لاسباب مجهولة، وكأن البابليون شعب لا علاقة له بسكان نينوى واشور الذين كانوا ايضا اكاديين ولكنهم عرفوا بالاشوريين ايضا نسبة الى مدينة اشور.... واراد ان يقتعنا البعض من المؤرخين وكأن في بابل (الوسطية) يعيش شعب بختلف عن أهل نينوى واشور في الشمال. وحاول الامبراطور المقدوني اسكندر الكبير (336 ق.م) إعادة امجاد بابل الاكادية العظيمة عبر جعلها عاصمة لإمبراطوريته الواسعة في بلاد المشرق، الا ان الموت المفاجئ له حال دون تحقيق أمنيته. فقلت اهميتها وتلاشت وبقيت تحت الانقاض الى ان عادت مجددا لتصرخ بنا وتحكي لنا عن هوية العراق الاصيلة التي عمل المتعصبون على شطبها أو طمسها بهدف تبديلها بهوية دخيلة تسببت بتخلف العراق وأهله الى يومنا هذا.
     

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #10
    44916324_717155005328450_6126423372004851712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeHmeiVQabJvLUfeXGluIIl46f3s11-AgJ1lnVGM6Isopn8IbM2gYoUlxwlU413O8BRT5_RMeGEAyiyTI-jzfDFiXRTc8QdSVNgui89BJhkUDw&_nc_ht=scontent-los2-1.xx&oh=131b8c26642dd24e878cfde6b3defdaa&oe=5C75CE7C


    We are Phoenicians.
    Never forget your heritage .

    ما زالت قرانا اللبنانية تنطق بالفينيقيّة:

    - تعنايل: تع-نا-إيل Taanayel، وتعني "استجبنا يا ربّ".
    - سعدنايل: سعد-نا-إيل Saadnayel، وتعني "ساعدنا يا رب". (حرفياً: "أطعمنا"، فتكون ترجمة أخرى: "أعطنا خبزنا يا ربّ")
    - بدنايل: بد-نا-إيل Bednayel، حرفياً " ملجانا الله " بمعنى "نجّنا يا ربّ".
    وثلاثتها كلمات كانت تقال في صلوات موسمية فينيقية عند بدء فصل الشتاء
    ونرى ذلك ايضاً في الأسماء المسيحية والسريانية المارونية مثل:
    - عمانوإيل أي الرب معنا Emmanuel
    - مخايل (ميخا-إيل) أي مثل الرب Mikhael, Michel, Miguel, Michael …
    - جبرايل (غبرو-إيل) أي رجل الرب Gabriel
    - روفايل (رافا-إيل) أي دواء الرب أو شفاء الرب Raphael
    - دانييل (دان-إيل) أي حُكم الرب Daniel
    - شربل أي قصة الرب Charbel
    ومن المعروف ان كل اسم شخص او منطقة او ضيعة او مدينة ... ينتهي ب "إيل" هو اسم فينيقي وقد انتشرت هذه الأسماء من مسقط رأس الفينيقيين لبنان وصولاً الى "مرسى-إيل" Marseille في فرنسا.
     

    What

    New Member
    #11
    This is certainly not a fact. It is a statement. You should provide material evidence to support your statement so that we can accept it as a truthful proposition.
    You just need to evolve your IQ level :

    Lebanese have diverse Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) thus they cant be a race or an origin, Simple fact .
     

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #12
    You just need to evolve your IQ level :

    Lebanese have diverse Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) thus they cant be a race or an origin, Simple fact .
    You need to improve your reading and comprehension skills. Then read my post again.
     
    #14
    What most people fail to realize is that Middle Eastern Semitic People are not originally Semites - they were Semitize ( it was part of the cycle of cultural shifts)

    The oldest Midwestern Civilization is Sumer they were not Semitic, yet they are closely related to Saudis in fact almost identical .

    in the end of the day Semitic is an offshoot of Afro-Asiatic (culture & language) which originated between Egypt and Sudan, by contrast the pre Semitic (culture & language) of the people of the Mideast was shaped in Asia far from Egypt & Sudan and Sumer is an example of many .


    is Canaanites/Phoenicians a Paternal ancestry or a cultural phase ?

    No, its not a Paternal ancestry ------ its a cultural phase of many cycle of cultural change that stooped with Arabic .

    Lebanese have diverse Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) thus they simply don't have a common ancestor - they are mostly descendants of different migrant groups like New Yorkers, for example :

    a Lebanese who is Y-dna J1 is closer to a Saudi Arabian Y-dna J1 or Kurdish Y-dna J1 then to other Lebanese who are not Y-dna J1

    a Lebanese who is Y-dna J2 will always be closer to a Saudi Y-dna J2 or Kurdish Y-dna J2 then to other Lebanese who are not Y-dna J2


    A Maronite Lebanese Who's Paternal Lineages are J2 is closer to a Sunni Saudi or Muslim Lebanese who is J2 ,,,, but a Maronite will always feel closer to a fellow Maronite (even if they realize that they don't share the same paternal Lineages ) then to a Muslim with the same paternal origins ----- because ethnic identity is shaped by mentality - that is shaped by the culture you are born in to & how your family & community raised you to identify with - in short you are born in to it , language is a form of communication not a blood - culture are costumes not blood - religion is culture spirituality you are born in to ( when you decide to change the identity you are born in to this is called cultural shift )


    final note :

    Autosomal DNA is associated with a certain period of history influenced by geography rather then Paternal origins , many genetic shows are based solely on it , which is very deceiving since they ignore Y-dna (Paternal Lineages) which is literally you real origin, the rest is a side show of geographic settlement history aka Autosomal DNA but not your origin
    Y-dna lineage is different from race/ethnicity.
     

    What

    New Member
    #15
    Y-dna lineage is different from race/ethnicity.

    Y-dna lineage is origin (i.e. race) we are all from the Human race , but there are sub-races ( Paternal ancestor's ) - and Y-dna distinguishes this sub-races ( Paternal ancestor's ) .

    Ethnicity is the culture identity your parents or member of your family or community raised you to identify with .


    More details :

    Ethnicity :
    Ethnicity is the culture your parents or member of your family or community raised you to identify with - ethnicity is defined by mentality, for example there are members of the Saudi royal family who physically look very black & very African while other who look Irish and can even be blond nonetheless they dont consider themselves a different race or a different ethnicity they have the same paternal Grandfather (Y-dna) but in the USA people will consider them a different race this is not scientific or factual this primitive social opinion .

    Race :
    Y-dna lineage is origin (i.e. race) we are all from the Human race - but there are sub-races - and Y-dna distinguishes this sub-races ( scientifically speaking Y-dna lineages are a grouping of humans based on shared origins ) ------- pre-scientific definition of race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society thus this makes Muslims a race in fact Muslims in the Levant cluster deferentially from Christians nonetheless clusters doesn't change your origin ---- if an Arabian from Saudi Arabia immigrated to Lebanon his descendants will cluster differently but their origins will remain the same with other members of their family in Arabia cluster doesn't change your origin .
     
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    #16
    Y-dna lineage is origin (i.e. race) we are all from the Human race , but there are sub-races ( Paternal ancestor's ) - and Y-dna distinguishes this sub-races ( Paternal ancestor's ) .

    Ethnicity is the culture identity your parents or member of your family or community raised you to identify with .


    More details :

    Ethnicity :
    Ethnicity is the culture your parents or member of your family or community raised you to identify with - ethnicity is defined by mentality, for example there are members of the Saudi royal family who physically look very black & very African while other who look Irish and can even be blond nonetheless they dont consider themselves a different race or a different ethnicity they have the same paternal Grandfather (Y-dna) but in the USA people will consider them a different race this is not scientific or factual this primitive social opinion .

    Race :
    Y-dna lineage is origin (i.e. race) we are all from the Human race - but there are sub-races - and Y-dna distinguishes this sub-races ( scientifically speaking Y-dna lineages are a grouping of humans based on shared origins ) ------- pre-scientific definition of race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society thus this makes Muslims a race in fact Muslims in the Levant cluster deferentially from Christians nonetheless clusters doesn't change your origin ---- if an Arabian from Saudi Arabia immigrated to Lebanon his descendants will cluster differently but their origins will remain the same with other members of their family in Arabia cluster doesn't change your origin .
    Haplogroups are based on genetic mutation of Y chromosomes or Mitochondrial DNA. Nowhere in the scientific literature that I read to date are they used to define the boundaries or the makeup of a race. In fact some haplogroups clearly cut across races, namely the E1b one. Perhaps you need to share your references for all our benefits so we can have a starting point in this conversation.

    As for the phoenician/canaanites, they are in no way exclusively J2 as pointed out by numerous studies, namely the most recent one "Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequences" by Marc Haber, Claude Doumet-Serhal, Christiana Scheib, Pierre Zalloua, Toomas Kivisild and Chris Tyler-Smith
     

    What

    New Member
    #17
    Haplogroups are based on genetic mutation of Y chromosomes or Mitochondrial DNA. Nowhere in the scientific literature that I read to date are they used to define the boundaries or the makeup of a race. In fact some haplogroups clearly cut across races, namely the E1b one. Perhaps you need to share your references for all our benefits so we can have a starting point in this conversation.

    As for the phoenician/canaanites, they are in no way exclusively J2 as pointed out by numerous studies, namely the most recent one "Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequences" by Marc Haber, Claude Doumet-Serhal, Christiana Scheib, Pierre Zalloua, Toomas Kivisild and Chris Tyler-Smith
    Paternal lineages (i.e. origin) is Y chromosome ( also called Y-DNA ) Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son (women do not have this chromosome). This means that its passed only from father to son through the Y chromosome (Y-DNA) ----------- Y-DNA helps you discover your paternal origins - its impossible to discover your maternal origins because mtDNA changes when your Paternal line of ancestors intermix with different women - unlike Y-dna which doesn't change, its always passed down from father to son through your long line of ancestors .

    in the case of the Phoenician they were a phase/political entity but not a race , thus its natural they were made up from different sub-races mostly J1 & J2 --- most of the people of the Mideast are J1 & J2 and its also founded among most ethnic cultural groups in the Mideast .



    in short Y-dna gives you your real origin -------- while Autosomal DNA gives you the different genetic codes you accrued from geographic movement & settlements but not your origin.
     
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    #18
    Paternal lineages (i.e. origin) is Y chromosome ( also called Y-DNA ) Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son (women do not have this chromosome). This means that its passed only from father to son through the Y chromosome (Y-DNA) ----------- Y-DNA helps you discover your paternal origins - its impossible to discover your maternal origins because mtDNA changes a lot - unlike Y-dna which doesn't change, its always passed down from father to son .

    in the case of the Phoenician they were a phase/political entity but not a race , thus its natural they were made up from different sub-races mostly J1 & J2 --- most of the people of the Mideast are J1 & J2 and its also founded among most ethnic cultural groups .



    in short Y-dna gives you your real origin -------- while Autosomal DNA gives you the different genetic codes you accrued from geographic movement & settlements but not your origin.
    ...
     

    What

    New Member
    #19
    Origins Analysis (Haplogroups / clan father Adam) Analysis of the Y-Chromosome is used to research the paternal line :

    What are your genetic roots (origins) ? is your paternal line J1 or J2 or Q and so on ? Who is your primordial father? These questions are
    answered only by a Y-DNA test.


    A Y-DNA test tells you your haplogroup (Ancestor's from primeval times) Y-DNA genealogy also enables you to find 'genetic cousins', i.e., people with whom you share common ancestors.



    test_vaeterliche_linie.gif
     

    What

    New Member
    #20
    This explanation of the name Phoenician is not accurate and there are no Greek sources that confirm that the word Phoenician is indicative of a dye.
    It is more plausible to say that the name is derived from the word phenom or phonetics.
    The fact that the Phoenician alphabet is the same as the alphabet used by King Solomon as well as the same alphabet of the Samaritan Torah which the oldest text of the Torah only indicates at the fact that the Phoenicians were The Hebrews and that they were also the Israelites.
    " the Phoenician alphabet is the same as the alphabet used by King Solomon as well as the same alphabet of the Samaritan Torah which the oldest text of the Torah only indicates at the fact that the Phoenicians were The Hebrews and that they were also the Israelites "

    The Jews of today use Arabic cuisine and even claim it as israeli cuisine - that dose not mean they are Arabs nor inventors of the Arabic cuisine which also has Arabic names not Jewish ( this cuisines evolved in the Arabic phase&culture ) .
     
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