is Canaanites/Phoenicians a Paternal ancestry or a cultural phase ? are Lebanese Semitic or not ?

[Myso]

The Druz and all Mowahedin in the Mohamadean sectarian practices were Jews who believed that Mohamed was a prophet and they also did not have to convert into any thing new by accepting the prophecy is not an opinion. It is documented in historiography. Mohamed did not bring a religion called Islam. Islam was written in Khorasan.
Only when Zoroastrian converts into Islam invented the Shafeii sect in Nishapur in Iran which was countered by the Muslim Orthodox who were Christian Orthodox converts in Constantinople, that Jews who accepted the prophecy of Mohamed were persecuted and went underground.
All so called Shi'a sects today were sects developed by Jewish converts except the Twelver Shi'a of Iran. They were Zoroastrian converts like the Shafeii.

Druze actually deny Mohammad and call him names. But I'm not sure about proto-Druze, and I believe there's a truth to the Jewish origin of Druze and your theory.

 

[Myso]

" the Genesis is false - there was no Abraham "

Genesis might be exaggerated and has false information - but its not totally false - saying there was no Abraham is like saying their was no God - you simply cant prove it .

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[Myso]

My personal theory is that Proto-Druze and Proto-Maronites were originally Europeans (but near Eastern Europeans) that fled due to persecution and settled in the Lebanese and Syrian mountains (back when they were mostly empty). This study backs up my hypothesis. Reconstructing Druze population history . But they intermingled with other locals such as Phoenicians/Caanites. When Islam rose to power, Druze and Maronites would fight it from their mountain fortresses and establish their own faiths. The Druze would pretend to be Muslim under Arab - Islamic colonization while the Maronites would defend their Christian heritage. But both would get be persecuted and yet survive in a hostile region and retain their high concentration of North European and European genes (and genetic similarity, only 7% difference). The crusaders would come but not influence the Lebanese genetics to any siginificant extent (less than 2%). I call doubt on the theory that Jews came from Egypt or Abraham from Arabia. It seems to me they did come from Kharazan but adopted those religious stories. There's no archealogical evidence on the existences of Moses in Egypt or all the stories mentioned in the Bible. It's just a gnostic tradition that places its figures with the pharoahs and people of power to be more convincing to the adherents. IMHO. While Abraham and Sarah seem like a rip-off of the Hindu Brahma and Saraswati.

 

[Myso]

Recent studies have shown that Phoenician is highest marker among Lebanese. Phoenician/Canaanite is the native and original culture of the land. It is not imported by a foreign invader, like everything that came afterwards, from Hellenization all the way to Arabism in the present moment. Dabke for example, unlike what many state that it's an arabic dance, it was a Phoenician ritual to weed off evil spirits. Even in Hebrew, the root word for it is dibuk, which simply means "Possession".

I think it's only 25% of Lebanese who hold Phoenician markers. Besides, those same markers are found in many Italians, Greeks and Syrians. I think you currently hold more European DNA as a Christian/Druze than Caanite DNA.

 

[What]

Druze actually deny Mohammad and call him names. But I'm not sure about proto-Druze, and I believe there's a truth to the Jewish origin of Druze and your theory.

You clearly have an agenda to establish a Druze/Maronite affinity with Jews --- VS --- Muslims / Arabs .

Furthermore if the Druze had a Jewish heritage they would naturally hate Jesus you know that Jews hate Jesus --- even Jews in Arabia deny & hated Jesus & called him names .

As long their is no incontestable evidence of a Jewish background to Druze (who you claim are from Turkey ) then its just your opinion , Also since you have a clear agenda you cant be taken seriously - but very suspiciously .

in the end of the day Druze or Maronite are free to affiliate them self with who they ever chose ( if they want a Druze/Maronite affinity with Jews --- VS --- Muslims / Arabs ) this their choice , and if they want to become Jews this is also their choice - since Jews will always treat them as second class until they convert ( assimilate ) and become Jews - although it will take a lot of work to convert to Judaism - its not easy to convert to Judaism .

 

[What]

Modern research shows Druze came down from Anatolia. (Specifically Lake Van, Turkey today).

if true - then their extended family today are Muslims - furthermore the Druze were very loyal to the ottomans .

 

[What]

A lot of things to comment on. I'll try to be brief.

(1) Recent Genetic studies disprove your hypothesis here. E.g Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture. Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture Maronites (and Druze) cluster together. While Lebanese Muslims cluster a bit further away. So two Maronites would naturally be genetically closer to each other and identifiable. (Even through a 23andme test).

(2) Abraham is not a historic figure. Abraham is an alteration of the Hindu "Brahma" and his wife Sarah is an alteration of goddess Saraswati. It's also interesting that Mohammad referred to the Kaaba as a house built by Abraham when it's a Hindu temple, the black stone structure being a common structure in Hindu temples to identify a goddess' vagina.

(3) 25% of Lebanese do hold Phoenician ancestry but through mixing. Many original Lebanese came down from Anatolia and nearby areas originally. So I wouldn't say Lebanese are Phoenicians, Crypiots or Arabs. But basically a mixture that created a new identity. Moreover, in the crusades, not many of the populace was affected. Something like less than 2% if I remember correctly. So the high concentration of European genes in Christians and Druzes would be from the period of migration down from Europe into the Lebanese mountains to avoid persecution.

Lebanese Christians and Druze cluster together, While Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins.

Ashkenazi Jews are drawn towards the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, reflecting historical admixture events with Europeans, while Sephardi Jews cluster tightly with the Levantine groups. These results are consistent with previous studies reporting higher European genome-wide admixture in Ashkenazi Jews compared with other Jews [11] and higher Y-chromosomal gene flow to Lebanese Muslims from the Arabian Peninsula compared with other Lebanese

in regards to Paternal ancestry (origins ) - A Saudi J1 and a Maronite J1 and a Druze J1 will always be closer to each other then to other Druze or Maronites who are not J1 since they have the same Paternal ancestor J1 ( as an origin ) .

 

[Myso]

if true - then their extended family today are Muslims - furthermore the Druze were very loyal to the ottomans .

That's true. Compare between the Arslan family in Turkey and the Arslan family in Lebanon.

 

[Myso]

You clearly have an agenda to establish a Druze/Maronite affinity with Jews --- VS --- Muslims / Arabs .

Furthermore if the Druze had a Jewish heritage they would naturally hate Jesus you know that Jews hate Jesus --- even Jews in Arabia deny & hated Jesus & called him names .

As long their is no incontestable evidence of a Jewish background to Druze (who you claim are from Turkey ) then its just your opinion , Also since you have a clear agenda you cant be taken seriously - but very suspiciously .

in the end of the day Druze or Maronite are free to affiliate them self with who they ever chose ( if they want a Druze/Maronite affinity with Jews --- VS --- Muslims / Arabs ) this their choice , and if they want to become Jews this is also their choice - since Jews will always treat them as second class until they convert ( assimilate ) and become Jews - although it will take a lot of work to convert to Judaism - its not easy to convert to Judaism .

It's not an agenda. It's scientific research.

 

[Myso]

Lebanese Christians and Druze cluster together, While Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins.

Ashkenazi Jews are drawn towards the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, reflecting historical admixture events with Europeans, while Sephardi Jews cluster tightly with the Levantine groups. These results are consistent with previous studies reporting higher European genome-wide admixture in Ashkenazi Jews compared with other Jews [11] and higher Y-chromosomal gene flow to Lebanese Muslims from the Arabian Peninsula compared with other Lebanese

in regards to Paternal ancestry (origins ) - A Saudi J1 and a Maronite J1 and a Druze J1 will always be closer to each other then to other Druze or Maronites who are not J1 since they have the same Paternal ancestor J1 ( as an origin ) .

Closer in origin that goes back 100,000 years? Perhaps. But why is that important?

 

[What]

It's not an agenda. It's scientific research.

its an agenda to claim Druze are Jews - with no evidence , the only way to demonstrate they are Jews : is an in depth Y-DNA test + Historical supporting evidence - anything else is speculation even genetic cluster - this why many previous studies turned out to be outright wrong

 

[Myso]

if true - then their extended family today are Muslims - furthermore the Druze were very loyal to the ottomans .

Also I believe the Ottomans killed more Druze than anyone in that history. The Ottomans fought a lot against Druze from Kurdish origins such as Joumblats and Maans (e.g Fakhridine), but gave power to Turkic Druzes such as the Arslans.

 

[Myso]

its an agenda to claim Druze are Jews - with no evidence .

I'm only saying that most proto-Druze and Jews seem to have descended from overlapping regions in West Asia and Europe. This was also said by a recent genetic study that tries to track down ancestry through a GPS-like system by a Jewish author. Solving the 1,000-year-old mystery of Druze origin with a genetic sat nav

 

[What]

I'm only saying that most proto-Druze and Jews seem to have descended from overlapping regions in West Asia and Europe. This was also said by a recent genetic study that tries to track down ancestry through a GPS-like system by a Jewish author. Solving the 1,000-year-old mystery of Druze origin with a genetic sat nav

Many People & ethnicity descended from the overlapping regions in West Asia and Europe from all the 3 Abrahamic religions

 

[Myso]

I personally seem to have a high concentration of Mizrahi Jewish DNA (but not very sure) and Balkan European DNA (to levanite measures). I know a Druze guy from Hasbayah who is 20% Ashkenazi Jewish. I also score less than 5% Arab - North African. Although my family trees claim we are from Yemeni Arab noble families and had positions of power because of that claim. It's hilarious. I can't really even make sense of my DNA results. It says I have 0 relatives on every website.

 

[Myso]

Many People & ethnicity descended from overlapping regions in West Asia and Europe from all the 3 Abrahamic religions

Many People & ethnicity descended from overlapping regions in West Asia and Europe from all the 3 Abrahamic religions

Right. But as you zoom in more, you can locate the majority of the proto-Druze to the Lake Van area in Anatolia. But have different results for proto-maronites (though just a 7% difference) and proto-lebanese-muslims.

 

[What]

I personally seem to have a high concentration of Mizrahi Jewish DNA (but not very sure) and Balkan European DNA (to levanite measures). I know a Druze guy from Hasbayah who is 20% Ashkenazi Jewish. I also score less than 5% Arab - North African. Although my family trees claim we are from Yemeni Arab noble families and had positions of power because of that claim. It's hilarious. I can't really even make sense of my DNA results. It says I have 0 relatives on every website.

20% Ashkenazi Jewish - could mean your paternal ancestor mated with Ashkenazi Jewish women or mated with a women whose paternal ancestors mated with Ashkenazi Jewish women , Ashkenazi Jewish simply means a cluster label and this cluster label is artificial and can be wrong and even change in the future its not a precise science - and it could have to do with a people who the Jews mated with and it was wrongfully labeled Ashkenazi Jewish ---- Ashkenazi Jewish is a reference to a specific historical period of mating within a specific culture or region - its not a race - its just exchanging women between many people and Jews mated with many non Jewish women this could have lead to the confusion .

genetic cluster is like the Bible or Hadith it could always be wrong and subject to a lot of error and easily manipulated

 

[What]

Right. But as you zoom in more, you can locate the majority of the proto-Druze to the Lake Van area in Anatolia. But have different results for proto-maronites (though just a 7% difference) and proto-lebanese-muslims.

Arab Muslims in the Mideast have the same ancestry if you zoom in - and even if you dont zoom in - its obvious .

 

[Myso]

Right. But as you zoom in more, you can locate the majority of the proto-Druze to the Lake Van area in Anatolia. But have different results for proto-maronites and proto-lebanese-muslims.

Arab Muslims in the Mideast have the same ancestry if you zoom in - and even if you dont zoom in - its obvious .

Arab Muslims in the Mideast have the same ancestry if you zoom in - and even if you dont zoom in - its obvious .

How so? Arab Muslims do not trace to Anatolia. They trace down to Arabia and Africa.

"The mixed Near Eastern–Middle Eastern localisation of the Druze, shown using both modern and ancient DNA data, is distinct from that of neighbouring Syrians, Palestinians and most of the Lebanese, who exhibit a high affinity to the Levant. Druze biogeographic affinity, migration patterns, time of emergence and genetic similarity to Near Eastern populations are highly suggestive of Armenian-Turkish ancestries for the proto-Druze. " Reconstructing Druze population history

 

[What]

How so? Arab Muslims do not trace to Anatolia. They trace down to Arabia and Africa.

"The mixed Near Eastern–Middle Eastern localisation of the Druze, shown using both modern and ancient DNA data, is distinct from that of neighbouring Syrians, Palestinians and most of the Lebanese, who exhibit a high affinity to the Levant. Druze biogeographic affinity, migration patterns, time of emergence and genetic similarity to Near Eastern populations are highly suggestive of Armenian-Turkish ancestries for the proto-Druze. " Reconstructing Druze population history

Around 69% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool could be considered of direct or indirect Levantine ascription ( Which is also Anatolian ) while 17% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool is typical of Mesopotamia ( could also be considered Anatolian) , While the remainder 14% of Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool arrived from African ( Which could even be the source of Semitic ) .

Also Armenian = European ( not Mideast )