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Is nabih berri finished?

mariob2

mariob2

Member
Shu yalli jeb siret HA's weapons? Iza 3endkon mishekleh dekhliyyeh ma3 Berri shu khas el sle7 yalli mwajjah lal kherej? []
I would find it interesting if you could reply to my post that was addressed to you, two pages back.

It's concerning "machekelna l dekhliye" ma3 Berri, your ally (given that you seem to have a zealous protective attitude towards the Hezb)
 
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  • CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    You know one can give a lot of credit to those who say: they can starve us but we won’t surrender when the starver is the enemy. But when the starver is your ally and you shout that slogan out, you get the reaction you are getting in Lebanon not just of FPM.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I would find it interesting if you could reply to my post that was addressed to you, two pages back.

    It's concerning "machekelna l dekhliye" ma3 Berri, your ally (given that you seem to have a zealous protective attitude towards the Hezb)
    I saw your post but didnt find it worthy of a reply. A waste of time. But since you need the attention becaus maybe, you feel that you made sense and you were unduly ignored, I'd indulge you and waste some of my precious time on your BS post.

    You started by telling us your dad was a schoolmate of Berri and you gave us his opinion about what Berri was. I was not not a schoolmate of Berri, so I dont know if what your dad is claiming is true or not.

    You said Berri couldn't have been to the US and that he doesnt speak English . Someone got you a NYT article that stated that he has had a US Green Card and his first wife stays in the US and his children were born in the US. In other words, Berri is an American citizen as well, because if I recall correctly, he got an American passport later on. He also has business interests in the US. You can ask @Ralph N who labelled him "an American agent" in Lebanon. Not a bad thing by the way. If Hezballah, the other Shia party is very anti American, it is a good thing to have diversity and have Amal, the other Shia party be led by an "American agent".

    You mentioned my aspiration for the creation of a secular state in Lebanon and went on to remind me that Hezballah "covers" up for Berri. I do not see a link between the two. Even though I fully support the right of Lebanon and Lebanese in general, including Hezballah to defend themselves and have enough means and capacity to protect and defend Lebanon against any and all external threats, Hezbollah is not a secular party. So internally, my aspiration and their essence do not agree. We are at odds. I really dont know how my aspiration for a secular state and your allegation that Hezbollah (the ally of the FPM) "covers up" for Berri concerns me. This isnt my headache.

    You kept on ranting that Hezballah is honest but that's not enough because no alliance with Berri is ever justified. Well, that is your opinion. It doesnt seem Hezballah agrees with you. And in a bloody, ungodly sectarian country like Lebanon where the Shia form the largest community, if not a slight majority in the population and have been marginalised for centuries and oppressed, mainly thanks to foreign invaders - who have driven them from one part of the country to another by the Mamluks, Crusaders and Ottomans - to empower their cronies and the interbal rivals of the Shia, I do not find it surprising if Hezballah maintains a strong inter Shia alliance with Berri. Perhaps, if the Shia in the 7th to 15th century acted united and unified as a force, Keserwan, Jbeil, Batroon, Tripoli and Jezzine wont have been taken over by the Maronites and Sunnis and the Shia expelled from those areas. When Israehell was bombing the South and Beqaa and Dahiyeh and Jbeil, some people were happy to see the Shia areas targeted. They even dreamed of seeing the Shia driven out of Lebanon as refugees to Iraq (where Iraqi Shias form a majority). A Maronite racist LF scum jokingly mentioned his happy he is that Chiyah was devastated and the buildings destroyed in 2006 because he could now have a view of the sea in Ayn el Remmaneh, where he is from. Many disnt expect Hezbollah would come out undefeated in 2006. They had big plans to change the history of Lebanon by eliminating the Shia using a foreign power. That didnt materialize. I am against targeting any community in Lebanon and I am for one Lebanon from corner to corner in a secularz democratic state for all it's citizens. Since that is lacking, I cant blame the Shia for acting wisely and unified and speaking with one voice in the sectarian zoo Lebanon is, with wolves trying to undo one another. You can imagine if any of the Christian parties or Druze or Sunni parties, especially the ones that committed crime during the civil war, were to have the power and might Hezballah possesses today. They would have committed massacres and genocide against other Lebanese. Perhaps the reason they are always concerned about Hezbollah's heavy armaments meant to protect and defend Lebanon from external threats. They dont trust themselves and they know they are inhuman and wolves. They imagine what they would have done if they possessed those weapons, so they feel threatened even without anyone pinching them. Even when Hezballah was provoked on May 7, 2008 and took over Beirut, Hezballah still handed over to the army and went to Doha to talk and make peace. That in my opinion was stupid. Hezballah need not to remain in power, or harm anyone but at least, they should have uprooted the old system and bring something new and modern. But they didnt because they believe this was a state affair that concerns all Lebanese and everyone must agree for such change to happen. And do you really expect Hezballah that turned down the opportunity to clean the entire system, but instead resorted to dialogue with the same wolves, to actually take law into their hands and "fight corruption" or arrest the people FPM do not like?

    In fact, I as an independent Shia do not necessarily approve of the conduct and attitude of both Hezballah and Amal when it comes to internal politics on all or most or many (at least) matters. But I can understand their cohesion and insistence to maintain a strong Shia-Shia alliance. This is a ****ed up country with sellouts in all communities and with wolves who can easily use, dump and marginalize you. If the Shia dont unite, going by their history and their experiences of others internally, they would be dumb! So personally, as a Shia too I have to say because we dont have a country that treats us as citizens thanks to the French legacy which saw it fit to create a pseudo-democratic, ugly, apartheid, sectarian system to empower Maronites, you cant expect the Shia to start acting nationalistic and progressive and secular (even though that's my dream), when others have their patriarch and mufti covering up for corrupt state officials belonging to their sects. While you criticize Hezballah for "covering up" for Berri (that is your opinion, because Hezballah's relationship with Berri is a political and sectarian alliance and in fact, Berri needs no protection from anyone. Berri is a beast internally that can devour any opponent), I think you should channel your criticism to your patriarch who shamelessly came out wearing a huge golden cross to defend a billionaire thief, the governor of the central bank, who should instead be crucified. That is very shameful. Defending a thief and covering up for him because he is Maronite. It's annoying. That is what you should regard as "cover up" and not a political alkiance between two parties. The same thing the Sunni mufti did by defending thieves from his sect at a time people are struggling financially.

    So yes, an alliance with Berri is justified. At least Berri or Amal fanatics have never come out to question the resistance, it's rationale and motives when the parties have political differences or when one side feels aggrieved. I told you I dont agree with Hezballah and Amal on many things when it comes to internal politics. But when it comes to the question of resistance and Hezballah's arms, for me that is the holy of holies. It is a sacred mission that must not be touched because the existence of my family, my village, my history, my homeland, my country, my citizenship and my people would be at stake. You have no right to convert your political disagreements with Hezballah to vent and pinch the resistance and it's mission to defend and protect Lebanon. That is not acceptable. And that is something I find very ugly, stupid, unreliable, crazy and treacherous about FPMers. It isnt every time you experience seasonal madness or you have political demands/grievances or projects you need Hezballah, your ally to back you on, that you start making blackmailing statements on social media regarding the resistance and you let your mouth go loose uncontrollably and impulsively without any act of caution or respect to realize that the party in question is your ally, and its role also as a resistance movement is not just a matter that involves the party and politics but even those outside the party itself and the entire country. For me, the role of Hezbollah as a resistance movementis sacred. If you assault that role, it means it is as good as assaulting Imam Ali to my face. And that means I wont leave any word unused. I will insult Aoun, insult Basil, insult your mother, insult your father, insult your sister, and go as crazy as possible. When you sort yourself out with your ally and you regain your senses and start showering praises on your ally again and its role as a resistance movement then I will also regain my senses and start using Aoun's picture as display pic online and remember Aoun's hereoics in 2006. So you got to be careful. It isnt everytime a husband and wife have misunderstanding or disagreement that they talk about divorce or insult their mothers and fathers. You need to act responsibly and with maturity. Maybe your party leadership needs to educate you guys. You act irrationally at times.

    And this irrationality is also found in your post a lot, aside that your ideas arent coherent. The reason I told you I considered it a waste of time to reply you. Your post isnt worthy of reply. You kept repeating that Berri is being protected by his allies. That is not only untrue but very silly. Berri is an MP before he is speaker of parliament. That means he has immunity from prosecution. Even if Berri commits rape, you cant prosecute him. That is the law. Hezballah cant help you here. It is the state that needs to have the needed laws in place and to abolish the bad laws and apply justice without fear or favor. I have repeatedly called for:

    1. Dropping legal immunity govt and state officials enjoy
    2. Pass a law that will compel govt and state officials to make asset declarations before and after they take office
    3. Lift banking secrecy
    4. Pass a law to make the judiciary independent by making sure that judges are elected, selected, appointed internally in the judiciary body and not appointed by politicians. On this point, the FPM doesn't seem enthusiastic because apparently, like any of the other mainstream political parties in the state, the FPM wants to see Ghada Aoun (a relative of the president) remain a judge and have one or two judges here and there in it's pocket. And you expect Sleiman Frangieh to hand over his corrupt crony to a judge that some people consider politically motivated and biased.

    So get these four points made into law and then you can have all the files against Berri and if found guilty send him to prison and I will clap for you. But if he is protected by law against prosecution, you are wasting your time. He will remain untouchable. And he came out recently and said he doesnt think he can retire from politics for as long as he is healthy and carrying out his duties. So you have a long way to go. There is also no law limiting the number of tenures he can serve as MP or speaker. So the problem is not with your allies but with the state, the ugly sectarian system, the religious establishments that protect corrupt men from their sects, and the stupid laws that do not promote justice. You should speak with your allies and get these laws passed and let us have an independent judiciary with judges not considered to be in the FPM's pocket. That is the only way to have a progressive state. otherwise, all your rants and demands are just politically motivated, witch hunting, and gimmicks I wont really fall for, even though you may be right in asking for them. You have to act responsibly and also with maturity for you to convince people and not to provoke, offender turn them away from you. If you think your screams and provocations, like prostitutes on social media would make anyone shiver, then you have some more growing up to do as a party.
     
    mariob2

    mariob2

    Member
    I saw your post but didnt find it worthy of a reply. A waste of time. But since you need the attention becaus maybe, you feel that you made sense and you were unduly ignored, I'd indulge you and waste some of my precious time on your BS post.

    You started by telling us your dad was a schoolmate of Berri and you gave us his opinion about what Berri was. I was not not a schoolmate of Berri, so I dont know if what your dad is claiming is true or not.

    You said Berri couldn't have been to the US and that he doesnt speak English . Someone got you a NYT article that stated that he has had a US Green Card and his first wife stays in the US and his children were born in the US. In other words, Berri is an American citizen as well, because if I recall correctly, he got an American passport later on. He also has business interests in the US. You can ask @Ralph N who labelled him "an American agent" in Lebanon. Not a bad thing by the way. If Hezballah, the other Shia party is very anti American, it is a good thing to have diversity and have Amal, the other Shia party be led by an "American agent".

    You mentioned my aspiration for the creation of a secular state in Lebanon and went on to remind me that Hezballah "covers" up for Berri. I do not see a link between the two. Even though I fully support the right of Lebanon and Lebanese in general, including Hezballah to defend themselves and have enough means and capacity to protect and defend Lebanon against any and all external threats, Hezbollah is not a secular party. So internally, my aspiration and their essence do not agree. We are at odds. I really dont know how my aspiration for a secular state and your allegation that Hezbollah (the ally of the FPM) "covers up" for Berri concerns me. This isnt my headache.

    You kept on ranting that Hezballah is honest but that's not enough because no alliance with Berri is ever justified. Well, that is your opinion. It doesnt seem Hezballah agrees with you. And in a bloody, ungodly sectarian country like Lebanon where the Shia form the largest community, if not a slight majority in the population and have been marginalised for centuries and oppressed, mainly thanks to foreign invaders - who have driven them from one part of the country to another by the Mamluks, Crusaders and Ottomans - to empower their cronies and the interbal rivals of the Shia, I do not find it surprising if Hezballah maintains a strong inter Shia alliance with Berri. Perhaps, if the Shia in the 7th to 15th century acted united and unified as a force, Keserwan, Jbeil, Batroon, Tripoli and Jezzine wont have been taken over by the Maronites and Sunnis and the Shia expelled from those areas. When Israehell was bombing the South and Beqaa and Dahiyeh and Jbeil, some people were happy to see the Shia areas targeted. They even dreamed of seeing the Shia driven out of Lebanon as refugees to Iraq (where Iraqi Shias form a majority). A Maronite racist LF scum jokingly mentioned his happy he is that Chiyah was devastated and the buildings destroyed in 2006 because he could now have a view of the sea in Ayn el Remmaneh, where he is from. Many disnt expect Hezbollah would come out undefeated in 2006. They had big plans to change the history of Lebanon by eliminating the Shia using a foreign power. That didnt materialize. I am against targeting any community in Lebanon and I am for one Lebanon from corner to corner in a secularz democratic state for all it's citizens. Since that is lacking, I cant blame the Shia for acting wisely and unified and speaking with one voice in the sectarian zoo Lebanon is, with wolves trying to undo one another. You can imagine if any of the Christian parties or Druze or Sunni parties, especially the ones that committed crime during the civil war, were to have the power and might Hezballah possesses today. They would have committed massacres and genocide against other Lebanese. Perhaps the reason they are always concerned about Hezbollah's heavy armaments meant to protect and defend Lebanon from external threats. They dont trust themselves and they know they are inhuman and wolves. They imagine what they would have done if they possessed those weapons, so they feel threatened even without anyone pinching them. Even when Hezballah was provoked on May 7, 2008 and took over Beirut, Hezballah still handed over to the army and went to Doha to talk and make peace. That in my opinion was stupid. Hezballah need not to remain in power, or harm anyone but at least, they should have uprooted the old system and bring something new and modern. But they didnt because they believe this was a state affair that concerns all Lebanese and everyone must agree for such change to happen. And do you really expect Hezballah that turned down the opportunity to clean the entire system, but instead resorted to dialogue with the same wolves, to actually take law into their hands and "fight corruption" or arrest the people FPM do not like?

    In fact, I as an independent Shia do not necessarily approve of the conduct and attitude of both Hezballah and Amal when it comes to internal politics on all or most or many (at least) matters. But I can understand their cohesion and insistence to maintain a strong Shia-Shia alliance. This is a ****ed up country with sellouts in all communities and with wolves who can easily use, dump and marginalize you. If the Shia dont unite, going by their history and their experiences of others internally, they would be dumb! So personally, as a Shia too I have to say because we dont have a country that treats us as citizens thanks to the French legacy which saw it fit to create a pseudo-democratic, ugly, apartheid, sectarian system to empower Maronites, you cant expect the Shia to start acting nationalistic and progressive and secular (even though that's my dream), when others have their patriarch and mufti covering up for corrupt state officials belonging to their sects. While you criticize Hezballah for "covering up" for Berri (that is your opinion, because Hezballah's relationship with Berri is a political and sectarian alliance and in fact, Berri needs no protection from anyone. Berri is a beast internally that can devour any opponent), I think you should channel your criticism to your patriarch who shamelessly came out wearing a huge golden cross to defend a billionaire thief, the governor of the central bank, who should instead be crucified. That is very shameful. Defending a thief and covering up for him because he is Maronite. It's annoying. That is what you should regard as "cover up" and not a political alkiance between two parties. The same thing the Sunni mufti did by defending thieves from his sect at a time people are struggling financially.

    So yes, an alliance with Berri is justified. At least Berri or Amal fanatics have never come out to question the resistance, it's rationale and motives when the parties have political differences or when one side feels aggrieved. I told you I dont agree with Hezballah and Amal on many things when it comes to internal politics. But when it comes to the question of resistance and Hezballah's arms, for me that is the holy of holies. It is a sacred mission that must not be touched because the existence of my family, my village, my history, my homeland, my country, my citizenship and my people would be at stake. You have no right to convert your political disagreements with Hezballah to vent and pinch the resistance and it's mission to defend and protect Lebanon. That is not acceptable. And that is something I find very ugly, stupid, unreliable, crazy and treacherous about FPMers. It isnt every time you experience seasonal madness or you have political demands/grievances or projects you need Hezballah, your ally to back you on, that you start making blackmailing statements on social media regarding the resistance and you let your mouth go loose uncontrollably and impulsively without any act of caution or respect to realize that the party in question is your ally, and its role also as a resistance movement is not just a matter that involves the party and politics but even those outside the party itself and the entire country. For me, the role of Hezbollah as a resistance movementis sacred. If you assault that role, it means it is as good as assaulting Imam Ali to my face. And that means I wont leave any word unused. I will insult Aoun, insult Basil, insult your mother, insult your father, insult your sister, and go as crazy as possible. When you sort yourself out with your ally and you regain your senses and start showering praises on your ally again and its role as a resistance movement then I will also regain my senses and start using Aoun's picture as display pic online and remember Aoun's hereoics in 2006. So you got to be careful. It isnt everytime a husband and wife have misunderstanding or disagreement that they talk about divorce or insult their mothers and fathers. You need to act responsibly and with maturity. Maybe your party leadership needs to educate you guys. You act irrationally at times.

    And this irrationality is also found in your post a lot, aside that your ideas arent coherent. The reason I told you I considered it a waste of time to reply you. Your post isnt worthy of reply. You kept repeating that Berri is being protected by his allies. That is not only untrue but very silly. Berri is an MP before he is speaker of parliament. That means he has immunity from prosecution. Even if Berri commits rape, you cant prosecute him. That is the law. Hezballah cant help you here. It is the state that needs to have the needed laws in place and to abolish the bad laws and apply justice without fear or favor. I have repeatedly called for:

    1. Dropping legal immunity govt and state officials enjoy
    2. Pass a law that will compel govt and state officials to make asset declarations before and after they take office
    3. Lift banking secrecy
    4. Pass a law to make the judiciary independent by making sure that judges are elected, selected, appointed internally in the judiciary body and not appointed by politicians. On this point, the FPM doesn't seem enthusiastic because apparently, like any of the other mainstream political parties in the state, the FPM wants to see Ghada Aoun (a relative of the president) remain a judge and have one or two judges here and there in it's pocket. And you expect Sleiman Frangieh to hand over his corrupt crony to a judge that some people consider politically motivated and biased.

    So get these four points made into law and then you can have all the files against Berri and if found guilty send him to prison and I will clap for you. But if he is protected by law against prosecution, you are wasting your time. He will remain untouchable. And he came out recently and said he doesnt think he can retire from politics for as long as he is healthy and carrying out his duties. So you have a long way to go. There is also no law limiting the number of tenures he can serve as MP or speaker. So the problem is not with your allies but with the state, the ugly sectarian system, the religious establishments that protect corrupt men from their sects, and the stupid laws that do not promote justice. You should speak with your allies and get these laws passed and let us have an independent judiciary with judges not considered to be in the FPM's pocket. That is the only way to have a progressive state. otherwise, all your rants and demands are just politically motivated, witch hunting, and gimmicks I wont really fall for, even though you may be right in asking for them. You have to act responsibly and also with maturity for you to convince people and not to provoke, offender turn them away from you. If you think your screams and provocations, like prostitutes on social media would make anyone shiver, then you have some more growing up to do as a party.
    Questioning why your political ally is being protected is worthy of an answer by someone that I assumed, incorrectly, had sound reasoning.

    The alliance is justified at the expense of the State. And you will go to the ends of the Earth to do it, going so far as bringing up medieval geopolitics of the Shia community.

    Whatever the grand scheme of things are, the simple fact is that Berri (ofc Jumbi and Hariri and the Kazam and LF etc) is corrupt (just yesterday he sent thugs to indimidate someome that criticized him on fb), yet his chief uncorruptible counterparts do nothing, but deflect the responsability towards the State.

    Double standards, hypocrisy and whatnot. That is your real weapon. You act innocent, as if pretending to demand for reforms absolves you from any complicity or duplicity.

    I wish you good fortunes and may your Mafia ally long reign and steal from you.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Questioning why your political ally is being protected is worthy of an answer by someone that I assumed, incorrectly, had sound reasoning.

    The alliance is justified at the expense of the State. And you will go to the ends of the Earth to do it, going so far as bringing up medieval geopolitics of the Shia community.

    Whatever the grand scheme of things are, the simple fact is that Berri (ofc Jumbi and Hariri and the Kazam and LF etc) is corrupt (just yesterday he sent thugs to indimidate someome that criticized him on fb), yet his chief uncorruptible counterparts do nothing, but deflect the responsability towards the State.

    Double standards, hypocrisy and whatnot. That is your real weapon. You act innocent, as if pretending to demand for reforms absolves you from any complicity or duplicity.

    I wish you good fortunes and may your Mafia ally long reign and steal from you.
    He is not my ally. I have not said he is. I'm not a member of Hezballah, even if I support the resistance and the right of Lebanese to defend and protect themselves against external threats. So do not put words into my mouth. I am not also a member of the FPM, even though I am sympathetic to and support your reform cause and your passion to fight corruption and sanitize the state.

    I want reforms. I want drastic and historic changes. Lebanon is not a modern country in terms of governance by any stretch of the imagination. A sectarian zoo with feudal politicians and warlords, who combine business and politics and abuse their positions to do business, milk the public treasury and enrich themselves and their cronies and thereby impoverish the populace to keep them as loyal slaves under control and in the grip of poverty. They use parliament and legislation to legalise their theft and corruption. The only reason you find bank owners always becoming MPs. It's a secretive mafia style governing system with zero transparency. This isnt sane. We have a parliamentary dictatorship. But what can we do not to risk chaos, civil war and foreign meddling? I have told you. We need the parliament to make laws that do not conform to the selfish interests of those thieves in suits. If they refuse to do it, the FPM should resign from parliament. Put pressure on them to:

    1. Drop the legal immunity govt and state officials enjoy
    2. Pass a law that will compel govt and state officials to make asset declarations before and after they take office
    3. Lift banking secrecy
    4. Pass a law to make the judiciary independent by making sure that judges are elected, selected or appointed internally in the judicial body and not appointed by politicians.

    In the process of fighting for reform and fighting corruption, do not target the resistance, even as a popular base and on social media. Otherwise, your mission would be politicized and they will use that against your sincere goals and they will turn the people, including myself against your goals. They will also use that to weaken your alliance with Hezballah. FPM and Hezballah are the most isolated parties in Lebanese politics. You two do not belong to and are not welcome to join the mafia ruling class since 1990. You need to stay focus and stop getting distracted.
     
    Last edited:
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I would find it interesting if you could reply to my post that was addressed to you, two pages back.

    It's concerning "machekelna l dekhliye" ma3 Berri, your ally (given that you seem to have a zealous protective attitude towards the Hezb)
    Sorry, his zealous attitude seems more focused on blowing smoke up the istooz’ a...., واقطد الطوديح
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Irrespective of Berri's call, the path towards a civil state is laid down in the Taef accord. The promise to establish a civil state and abolish the confessional system was part of the accord that brought the civil war to an end. No one can deny or ignore that fact. The question is why did Berri not implement that clause for a civil state since 30 years? Who's against it? Why the delay? And who's opposed to it today? Berri should implement it before he passes way. At least that would be one achievement for him, if he has no other.
     
    SeaAb

    SeaAb

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    Irrespective of Berri's call, the path towards a civil state is laid down in the Taef accord. The promise to establish a civil state and abolish the confessional system was part of the accord that brought the civil war to an end. No one can deny or ignore that fact. The question is why did Berri not implement that clause for a civil state since 30 years? Who's against it? Why the delay? And who's opposed to it today? Berri should implement it before he passes way. At least that would be one achievement for him, if he has no other.
    Abolishing the confessional system is not enough to turn us into a civil state. Over the last 30 years, the calls were aimed at taking advantage of the edge Muslims hold in terms of population numbers. Until all religious schools that have their own curriculum are closed and the parliament enacts a mandatory civil marriage law, don't expect anyone to believe Muslims when they call for a civil state.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Abolishing the confessional system is not enough to turn us into a civil state. Over the last 30 years, the calls were aimed at taking advantage of the edge Muslims hold in terms of population numbers. Until all religious schools that have their own curriculum are closed and the parliament enacts a mandatory civil marriage law, don't expect anyone to believe Muslims when they call for a civil state.
    Civil marriage, closing churches and mosques, banning religious weddings, monitoring people who pray, etc. My point is implement Taef Accord to the letter.

    If you say by calling for a civil state is "taking advantage of the edge Muslims hold in terms of population", then it means or implies Muslims are at a disadvantage despite their numbers today. What was agreed upon in Taef should be implemented and the excuses dropped.

    But I understand what you are saying. If civil marriage is part of implementing Taef and it was agreed upon, then it must be applied regardless if clerics like it or not. Religious marriage should be optional in a private state. Civil marriage should be compulsory and legally binding. If you conduct your civil marriage through a civil court marrriage registration and the state recognizes your marriage, that is enough; , and if you feel the need afterwards to hold the religious rites at home or in church or in mosque to please God, that is your choice. What is required should be a state recognized marriage that is legally binding upon all.

    If that needs to be implemented, then so be it. My question is : is civil marriage mentioned in the Taef accord? If yes, then apply it. If not, then you are making up excuses.
     
    mariob2

    mariob2

    Member
    Civil marriage, closing churches and mosques, banning religious weddings, monitoring people who pray, etc. My point is implement Taef Accord to the letter.

    If you say by calling for a civil state is "taking advantage of the edge Muslims hold in terms of population", then it means or implies Muslims are at a disadvantage despite their numbers today. What was agreed upon in Taef should be implemented and the excuses dropped.

    But I understand what you are saying. If civil marriage is part of implementing Taef and it was agreed upon, then it must be applied regardless if clerics like it or not. Religious marriage should be optional in a private state. Civil marriage should be compulsory and legally binding. If you conduct your civil marriage through a civil court marrriage registration and the state recognizes your marriage, that is enough; , and if you feel the need afterwards to hold the religious rites at home or in church or in mosque to please God, that is your choice. What is required should be a state recognized marriage that is legally binding upon all.

    If that needs to be implemented, then so be it. My question is : is civil marriage mentioned in the Taef accord? If yes, then apply it. If not, then you are making up excuses.
    Civil marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution nor in the Taef Accord.

    Only the duty to enact a deconfessionnalized electoral law, founded upon civil criterias, and voting the NEXT Parliament on the basis of that civil electoral law, is stipulated.

    Once voted in, that national Parliament will vote on mechanisms and structures for the Senate.

    This was litterally the first thing the current 30 year old system had to do. That and also applying decentralization to help regions become fiscally and, to an extent, legally autonomous.

    None but the President of Parliament of that era, Rafi2 Hariri and Hafiz l Assad know why it was postponed.

    It would be wiser to just say "f♤ck our lives" and live on instead of pondering the reasons of non-implementation :(
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    Member
    Civil marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution nor in the Taef Accord.

    Only the duty to enact a deconfessionnalized electoral law, founded upon civil criterias, and voting the NEXT Parliament on the basis of that civil electoral law, is stipulated.

    Once voted in, that national Parliament will vote on mechanisms and structures for the Senate.

    This was litterally the first thing the current 30 year old system had to do. That and also applying decentralization to help regions become fiscally and, to an extent, legally autonomous.

    None but the President of Parliament of that era, Rafi2 Hariri and Hafiz l Assad know why it was postponed.

    It would be wiser to just say "f♤ck our lives" and live on instead of pondering the reasons of non-implementation :(
    More to steal from central state rather from a decentralized one. Berri, Hariri and Jumblatt are stealing from the dawle itself. in a decentralized state, Berri would only be able to steal from the southern mo7afaza, then he would get caught easily and won't try to steal again.
     
    mariob2

    mariob2

    Member
    More to steal from central state rather from a decentralized one. Berri, Hariri and Jumblatt are stealing from the dawle itself. in a decentralized state, Berri would only be able to steal from the southern mo7afaza, then he would get caught easily and won't try to steal again.
    Yes that essentially would be it. Thus why he is against federalism too
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Civil marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution nor in the Taef Accord.

    Only the duty to enact a deconfessionnalized electoral law, founded upon civil criterias, and voting the NEXT Parliament on the basis of that civil electoral law, is stipulated.

    Once voted in, that national Parliament will vote on mechanisms and structures for the Senate.

    This was litterally the first thing the current 30 year old system had to do. That and also applying decentralization to help regions become fiscally and, to an extent, legally autonomous.

    None but the President of Parliament of that era, Rafi2 Hariri and Hafiz l Assad know why it was postponed.

    It would be wiser to just say "f♤ck our lives" and live on instead of pondering the reasons of non-implementation :(
    When Berri is calling for an electoral law with Lebanon as one district and not sectarian, dont you see that those opposed to such a step are the ones against the implementation of Taef?

    @SeaAb Tfaddal...if civil marriage is not part of the Taef accord, why start up a new condition or rule or demand to fully implement Taef and abolish the confessional system? Why are you clutching at straws and finding excuses? and you keep telling me Berri is the problem? Who in Lebanon and in govt that is not a problem or an impediment, including you?
     
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