Is nabih berri finished?

Iron Maiden

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Habibi, reduce your arrogance pill that you take...mount Lebanon and Beirut are mixed areas. You may be shocked to find out that you're still lesser in numbers in terms of money and population wise.

You do not want to accept that you lost the civil war. You don't want to accept that the president does not have executive powers, even if someone with hundred times the strength and charisma of Aoun is elected. You don't want to realize its a parliamentary system. You don't want to realize that in a sectarian system, even the least sectarian people will lean towards their sect. You don't want to see that in a sectarian system the three national heads of state are each viewed as sectional leaders and not national leaders. That means a Shia views Aoun, the same way a Maronite views Berri (both are seen as and with the mentality: he is your president and not ours, and on the national level, he is a figure head)
No way ?? mount lebanon and beirut being somewhat mixed areas are a boon fir them, not a wasmit 3ar as u’re trying to paint them..
The fact that u wont even acknowledge that most if the economic activities in lebanon are limited to mountblebanon and beirut shows how unpragmatic ur approach is to lebanese politics and why shiaas migrate the most today, no more gvt jobs to milk.
Khalik b hal 3a2liye.

Man, don't waste your time. Kil 3e2deton lal Maronites enno they no longer dominate the state like they used to during Maronitism.
No one killed and harmed the Shiites as much as Maronites and their Sunni allies and they have the audacity to pretend they're the Middle East's most persecuted sect, when in reality they're responsible for the region's ugliest massacres.

If they think this is year 1200-something where they can conspire with Sunnis to drive us out of Keserwan and Jezzine they're very mistaken.
The current geopolitical environment is not in their favor. Geagea will remain a sarsour and never see the presidency.
Have u seen how much more beautiful and safe keserwen and jezzin hav become since the shiias were kicked out? I mean we almost got jeita grotto to be in the new seven wonder of the worlds! Yaret kel lebnen maronites, and maronites only
 
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  • A

    Anti Iran

    New Member
    This is the mentality that will lead us to a war... this big khassy will lead us to a war, abd as I experienced first hand it is a common shiite power drunkness thinking nowdays....maybe it is the maronites destiny as it was for the last 1400 years.
    Iran, hence HA, is in bad shape. A conflict between Russia and Iran is inevitable in Syrianafter the withdrawal of the US.
    Let’s hope Russia will inflict severe damage to Iran, the same way the US is inflicting severe economic damage
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    What civil war we had lost?
    Unless you call an all out invasion by the Syrian army using fighter jets ?
    If that is the case then it is safe to say you Muslims also lost the civil war in 1982 when the Isralis beat the shit out of you.
    We never had a civil war, the war was between the Christians and all Jarabs the Syrian jarabi army included.
    We fought against all Muslims of Lebanon, all Arabs, and also against the Syrian army for a decade and a half, and you still could not defeat us
    You muslims of Lebanon were hiding behind the Syrian army and their tanks and your PLO friends for 15 years, without them we would have popped up all like bed bugs.
    Actually, you lost your unlawful dominance over the country which you fought to maintain for 15 years.
    If Muslims and Druze didn't feel like second-class citizens in a Maronite-controlled country, perhaps they wouldn't have allied with foreign entities to retrieve their lost rights.

    Yasser Arafat didn't threaten to invade Jounieh out of nowhere.
    He did so because his people were being massacred.
    Yes, there were provocations from the PLO against the Phalangists prior to the bus massacre, but the first deliberate attack against Palestinian civilians was carried out by the Phalangists.

    The Christians, specifically far-Right Maronites, are responsible for starting the Civil War.
    Deny it all you want, but it's the truth and most journalists and reporters who were present in Lebanon at the time can attest to it.

    Maronites are the Serbs of the Middle East. They claim persecution when in fact they were doing all the killing.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    This is an analysis, not a wishful thinking. Berri is very old and has not undergone any succession plan for Amal, unlike many others such as PMA, jumblat, frangieh, amine gemayel, etc.
    The gap that Berri will leave behind him could weaken the shiite street to such an extent that Hariri could exploit , hence HA’s move to keep hariri busy in his own street
    If anything it's proof that Amal and Hizbullah appoint people according to their merit not how close they are to Berri or Nasrallah, contrary to FPM which claims to fight corruption but in reality resembles a family dictatorship.

    Saad Hariri, Jibran Bassil, Sami Gemayel, Taymour Joumblat, Tony Frangieh, Michel Mouawad and Setrida Geagea have all inherited their positions.

    There's only one sect not practicing nepotism today. It's Shiites.
     
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    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    If anything it's proof that Amal and Hizbullah appoint people according to their merit not how close they are to Berri or Nasrallah, contrary to FPM which claims to fight corruption but in reality resembles a family dictatorship.

    Saad Hariri, Jibran Bassil, Sami Gemayel, Taymour Joumblat, Tony Frangieh, Michel Mouawad and Setrida Geagea have all inherited their positions.

    There's only one sect not practicing nepotism today. It's Shiites.
    Yes shiites get their positions through taklif shar3é ??
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Yes shiites get their positions through taklif shar3é ??
    Hizbullah considers voting not only a patriotic duty, but a religious one too.
    I don't think Nasrallah or Berri appointed any of their family members into party positions.

    Nasrallah's son went to war. He wasn't handed the party's leadership on a silver platter like Gibran Bassil.

    I don't like Hizbullah's performance post 2000, but some things have to be said.
    When it comes to nepotism, Shiite politicians are the least guilty of it.
     
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    What civil war we had lost?
    Unless you call an all out invasion by the Syrian army using fighter jets ?
    If that is the case then it is safe to say you Muslims also lost the civil war in 1982 when the Isralis beat the shit out of you.
    We never had a civil war, the war was between the Christians and all Jarabs the Syrian jarabi army included.
    We fought against all Muslims of Lebanon, all Arabs, and also against the Syrian army for a decade and a half, and you still could not defeat us
    You muslims of Lebanon were hiding behind the Syrian army and their tanks and your PLO friends for 15 years, without them we would have popped up all like bed bugs.
    Wrong. I am Christian maronite. I don’r agree with you neither euthanasique manifesto nor Rachel Corrie. Please t2addabo wa thazzabo. Zabto khatkoun wa a3latkoun wa layassa 3 a2latkoum. Please bala akid hawa
     
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    Actually, you lost your unlawful dominance over the country which you fought to maintain for 15 years.
    If Muslims and Druze didn't feel like second-class citizens in a Maronite-controlled country, perhaps they wouldn't have allied with foreign entities to retrieve their lost rights.

    Yasser Arafat didn't threaten to invade Jounieh out of nowhere.
    He did so because his people were being massacred.
    Yes, there were provocations from the PLO against the Phalangists prior to the bus massacre, but the first deliberate attack against Palestinian civilians was carried out by the Phalangists.

    The Christians, specifically far-Right Maronites, are responsible for starting the Civil War.
    Deny it all you want, but it's the truth and most journalists and reporters who were present in Lebanon at the time can attest to it.

    Maronites are the Serbs of the Middle East. They claim persecution when in fact they were doing all the killing.
    I am maronite i Was in maronistan as u say. The discrimination Was not only against druz or muslims. It Was even between us in the same family even. Descrimination was not the art of Maronites don’t spread lies as u say like we persucated our shia brothers.
    Descrimination Was even in your society as assaad el assaad Said why you need a school « ma 3an 3alimkoun kamikaze ». In every lebaense society fi el tabakieh wal ta3aly wal 3ondorieh is not only maronite.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    Hizbullah considers voting not only a patriotic duty, but a religious one too.
    I don't think Nasrallah or Berri appointed any of their family members into party positions.
    When u get facts instead of assumptions, lets talk :)

    Nasrallah's son went to war. He wasn't handed the party's leadership on a silver platter
    So because he was on the battlefield its not nepotism anymore?
    As i told u before, if god wills it, teklif shar3é will make it happen
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    I am maronite i Was in maronistan as u say. The discrimination Was not only against druz or muslims. It Was even between us in the same family even. Descrimination was not the art of Maronites don’t spread lies as u say like we persucated our shia brothers.
    Descrimination Was even in your society as assaad el assaad Said why you need a school « ma 3an 3alimkoun kamikaze ». In every lebaense society fi el tabakieh wal ta3aly wal 3ondorieh is not only maronite.
    Dont make excuses for this []. Under the maronite system we were much better than now. They want to blame the maronites for prior to 75 and that is what lead to the war and now in 2018 they blame the maronites kameina for what we got ourselves into. You cant win with these ants.
     
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    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I have never seen such a withdrawn Nabih Berri in Lebanese politics as I do lately. He has always been an intermediary among all parties and movements. Today, he is nothing more than a mere shadow of Hezballah. It is true that HA has long been steering Amal movement’s strategic strings for its own end, but lately it seems that Amal has been completely swallowed.

    The name of Abbas Ibrahim is shining everywhere in the press as if Syria is looking forward to promoting AI into some political leadership so to absorb the bulk of the Amal movement who would not follow HA’s ideology. Jamil el Sayyed is too hated by most Lebanese people that he can hardly manage to replace Berri as head of the Parliament.

    The “3e2deh l senniyyeh” is, in the opinion of many, a diversion created by HA to keep the sunnis busy. HA is aware that the compactness and the strength of the shiite duo will soon stumble and maybe collapse with the passing of Berri. Seeing the inevitability of the FM movement to “grab” some anti-HA shiites in the future the same way Rafic Hariri used to “purchase” some shiites MPs , ministers, imams, etc., HA is breaching the sunni arena through a preemptive strike.

    Needless to say that Alwaleed Sukkarieh and Qaasem Hashem belong to Berri’s block. Berri would have never accepted to blackmail Hariri by “lending” his two MPs to HA and its “ketleh l tasheworiyeh” (which is an HA invention afterall). That reveals a total unprecedent submissiveness of berri to HA.
    currently, there is no such thing as nabih birri. there is simply an HA need for someone at the helm of the parliament who does not belong to the party. nabih birri is simply a necessity for HA. the last elections has proven beyond doubt that he has the support of less than 1/10 of the shiite street as the only district where he got his numbers was one where HA did not even run. the preferential votes were overwhelmingly in favor of HA. how long such a cover remains a necessity depends entirely on the US/iranian relations.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Habibi, reduce your arrogance pill that you take...mount Lebanon and Beirut are mixed areas. You may be shocked to find out that you're still lesser in numbers in terms of money and population wise.

    You do not want to accept that you lost the civil war. You don't want to accept that the president does not have executive powers, even if someone with hundred times the strength and charisma of Aoun is elected. You don't want to realize its a parliamentary system. You don't want to realize that in a sectarian system, even the least sectarian people will lean towards their sect. You don't want to see that in a sectarian system the three national heads of state are each viewed as sectional leaders and not national leaders. That means a Shia views Aoun, the same way a Maronite views Berri (both are seen as and with the mentality: he is your president and not ours, and on the national level, he is a figure head). And you don't want to realize that one figure head from one sect cannot impose rules on another sect. That is why we almost had a mini civil war over Wahab because a Sunni PM and Sunni officials acted like we are in Saudi Arabia to arrest a political figure from another sect. We didn't even hear anything anymore.

    If there is any war, or you start one (and you can't start one), you will lose it all eventually. No foreign powers will save you. The same foreign powers who wanted you to settle in Canada will sell you, especially if they realize you are the weaker side and overrepresented and they come to conclude your are an unnecessary burden to them.
    so out of curiosity, what do you think will happen to all of the above when the iranian lifeline to the shiites is cut? and it will be cut. now i understand you are a weird sample and not necessarily representative of the shiite street. but u can rest assured that your only safety will be in empowering the state, not in eroding it.

    and it has to be said, it is quite perplexing that some people still subscribe to that ugly crap you have been spewing on the forum for a while now. not sure where this is coming from, but this is not an isolated case. you are not doing yourself any favors when you spew this load of crap.
     
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    illusion84

    Member
    If anything it's proof that Amal and Hizbullah appoint people according to their merit not how close they are to Berri or Nasrallah, contrary to FPM which claims to fight corruption but in reality resembles a family dictatorship.

    Saad Hariri, Jibran Bassil, Sami Gemayel, Taymour Joumblat, Tony Frangieh, Michel Mouawad and Setrida Geagea have all inherited their positions.

    There's only one sect not practicing nepotism today. It's Shiites.
    I believe that Sit Randa disagree with you on this one!
     
    I

    illusion84

    Member
    I am maronite i Was in maronistan as u say. The discrimination Was not only against druz or muslims. It Was even between us in the same family even. Descrimination was not the art of Maronites don’t spread lies as u say like we persucated our shia brothers.
    Descrimination Was even in your society as assaad el assaad Said why you need a school « ma 3an 3alimkoun kamikaze ». In every lebaense society fi el tabakieh wal ta3aly wal 3ondorieh is not only maronite.
    There are many reasons for the civil war; and yes its is a civil war as the Palestinians were refugees in lebanon they did not invade, they were displaced and put in lebanon by Israel and Jordan!
    The christians fought to keep their political advantages in a country that they believe that it is their own invention.

    As for the shia population we can not claim that they were not underprivileged, even few years ago the sunnis of Beirut were shouting that Shia used to be their service men... By the way the Shia improved themselves by themselves; being poor they joined leftist organizations got better education; and many of them immigrated to Africa and South America where they build massive commercial businesses.

    In lebanon; they started ogranizing themselves under Moussa el Sader; later on a fraction allied with the Syrians while another one allied with Khomeini Iran; this was the breakthrough for their increased power in the lebanese politics.

    I don't know much about the Shia role in the civil war; they had their inter sect clashes between HA and Amal that may be considered as a part of the lebanese civil war.
    Shia as individual joined the LCP, PLO, even PSP and other leftist parties that had a major role in the war; but I know of few individuals that rooted for the Phalangists as well!

    Regarding the government formation; the Shia businesses outside Lebanon are under threat; Syria the main ally of the Shia political parties is very weak; Iran the main backer of the Shia parties is under sanctions and in a proxy war with Israel, KSA, and even USA.

    The Shia are wary that under this atmosphere; a political deal is struck between FPM and Hariri. FPM is eager to get back some of the pre war christian rights. Shia politicians believe that the deal is more than this; it is going back to a pre war era of a Sunni - Christian duo controlling the country.

    All what we see know is a strain of rope game to determine the new rules of government in Lebanon (of course the international pressure on Iran and HA did not help!). Alas, it is we as a people; and the Lebanese economy that is paying the price.
     
    A

    Anti Iran

    New Member
    The natural continuation of Moussa el Sadr’s project was Hezbollah and not Berri’s Amal.

    It is true Berri inherited Amal movement from Sadr, but the seeds of an Iranian project in Lebanon were planted by the latter, and Hezbollah carried on the works Sadr began.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    so out of curiosity, what do you think will happen to all of the above when the iranian lifeline to the shiites is cut? and it will be cut. now i understand you are a weird sample and not necessarily representative of the shiite street. but u can rest assured that your only safety will be in empowering the state, not in eroding it.

    and it has to be said, it is quite perplexing that some people still subscribe to that ugly crap you have been spewing on the forum for a while now. not sure where this is coming from, but this is not an isolated case. you are not doing yourself any favors when you spew this load of crap.
    You would understand Rachel's attitude and that of many others in the Shiite community when you look at how this community behaved since the civil war days. This community thought that prior to the 1975 war they were treated by the Maronites and the Sunni bourgeoisie as second class citizens. Their only goal was to get empowered using Syria and Iran to make some sort of revenge. They are holding on to their weapons not only because of the Israeli occupation but essentially because they think that this is their only way to dominate and make up for the years where they think they were oppressed.

    Since the TAEF agreement, Berri and his community never dealt with Lebanese politics for the purpose of building a state that treats everyone equally. They rather dealt with the state and the Christian community in particular as ghanima, that's why they flooded the state with thousands of employees (many of them are fictive), they avoided paying taxes, they are champions in corruption, they tried to put their hands on everything they could, and they even hosted and protected the Brital gangs to flood the Lebanese (and particularly Christian) areas with drugs and car thefts.... The Shiite parties leading this community FAILED to build a belonging to Lebanon! Even when GMA provided them the right context to develop this belonging they failed, and they kept working silently with the same rotten mentality.... Neither HA nor Berri can be counted on to build the state and fight corruption unfortunately... These two parties oppressed all other voices in the Shiite community, and the funny thing is that they want to have a secular state to put their hands on whatever left.... Haram, they think peopole are idiots...
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You would understand Rachel's attitude and that of many others in the Shiite community when you look at how this community behaved since the civil war days. This community thought that prior to the 1975 war they were treated by the Maronites and the Sunni bourgeoisie as second class citizens. Their only goal was to get empowered using Syria and Iran to make some sort of revenge. They are holding on to their weapons not only because of the Israeli occupation but essentially because they think that this is their only way to dominate and make up for the years where they think they were oppressed.

    Since the TAEF agreement, Berri and his community never dealt with Lebanese politics for the purpose of building a state that treats everyone equally. They rather dealt with the state and the Christian community in particular as ghanima, that's why they flooded the state with thousands of employees (many of them are fictive), they avoided paying taxes, they are champions in corruption, they tried to put their hands on everything they could, and they even hosted and protected the Brital gangs to flood the Lebanese (and particularly Christian) areas with drugs and car thefts.... The Shiite parties leading this community FAILED to build a belonging to Lebanon! Even when GMA provided them the right context to develop this belonging they failed, and they kept working silently with the same rotten mentality.... Neither HA nor Berri can be counted on to build the state and fight corruption unfortunately... These two parties oppressed all other voices in the Shiite community, and the funny thing is that they want to have a secular state to put their hands on whatever left.... Haram, they think peopole are idiots...
    the reality is not all that far off from what you have described, the voices for reform are always silenced and excluded under all kinds of pretexts.. if the change has to come it must come from withing the shiite community itself to break that strangle hold that has been exerted on the people. not all the shiites are happy with this reality and many are sick of this situation, but they are biting the wound for the sake of what consider to be the greater good, but things cannot go on as such forever. there was nothing short of an uprising against HA in the bikaa during the last elections, HA exerted much pressure in order to keep things in order, but without any reforms and concrete steps on the ground the life standards of the inhabitants will continue to deteriorate. the people in the south were not all that happy with the joke that amal and ali hassan khalil pulled in public to reject the turkish boat that was going to provide the south with electricity for free either.

    the south and the shiites in particular have paid a heavy price not just in facing israel but also in the fight inside syria, and they do deserve to live in a respectful state not in a farm. what are all these sacrifices for if not for a better life?
     
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    bachir1916

    Well-Known Member
    Actually, you lost your unlawful dominance over the country which you fought to maintain for 15 years.
    If Muslims and Druze didn't feel like second-class citizens in a Maronite-controlled country, perhaps they wouldn't have allied with foreign entities to retrieve their lost rights.

    Yasser Arafat didn't threaten to invade Jounieh out of nowhere.
    He did so because his people were being massacred.
    Yes, there were provocations from the PLO against the Phalangists prior to the bus massacre, but the first deliberate attack against Palestinian civilians was carried out by the Phalangists.

    The Christians, specifically far-Right Maronites, are responsible for starting the Civil War.
    Deny it all you want, but it's the truth and most journalists and reporters who were present in Lebanon at the time can attest to it.

    Maronites are the Serbs of the Middle East. They claim persecution when in fact they were doing all the killing.

    Minutes before the bus was massacred, 4 Lebanese were killed by your fellow PLos in front of a church, out of which Joseph Abou Assi was the first martyr to die on the hands of the Plo, the bus was massacred out of fear that the bus is carrying out another drive by shootings minutes after the first shooting, go get your facts straight we are not responsible for the start of the civil war, it is the illegal weapons in the hands of the palestinians and the Syrian undercover agents who were mainly Lebanese Muslims and Palestinian Muslims..
    The Maronites have nothing to do with your misery, we were not doing any killings, before 1975, thousands of Lebanese Christians were kidnapped and killed in Tel Zaatar on check points way before 1975.
     
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    bachir1916

    Well-Known Member
    Wrong. I am Christian maronite. I don’r agree with you neither euthanasique manifesto nor Rachel Corrie. Please t2addabo wa thazzabo. Zabto khatkoun wa a3latkoun wa layassa 3 a2latkoum. Please bala akid hawa
    You do not agree with what?
    Did the Maronites start the civil war?
    Did we lost the civil war to the Muslims of Lebanon?
    I do not understand what you disagree with!
    And finally where did u see me spewing foul language for u to say "t2addabo w thazabo w bala akl hawa"? really what did i say so i can correct it?lol
     
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    Anti Iran

    New Member
    You do not agree with what?
    Did the Maronites start the civil war?
    Did we lost the civil war to the Muslims of Lebanon?
    I do not understand what you disagree with!
    And finally where did u see me spewing foul language for u to say "t2addabo w thazabo w bala akl hawa"? really what did i say so i can correct it?lol
    The Maronites started the civil war by signing on the Cairo agreement that stipulates the presence of the Palestinian WITH ARMS in Lebanon.
     
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