Bashir10452Greatest
Member
The army is in the south; Ha should integrate it because HA is not able by international resolution and because he is on International Terrorists list to defend Lebanon
Israel Aggression and Hezballah's Retaliation
- Thread starter Rafidi
- Start date
If non-existent, you help build the state, for example by moving with such a step. It's a step by step project.
You don't come whining about something when your very actions practically empowers it.
All talk about HA bravados is dandy and fine, but to what use when it serves erode the very existence of what they are supposed to defend and preserve.
Rafidi
Legendary Member
The resistance acting as a separate entity from the army has given it over the years the freedom to act and the consequences have not rubbed on the army. Dont you agree? If you do agree, then our disagreement would be very simple to articulate. I think when there is no more need for such a resistance as a separate or independent entity, it would have to integrate into the army eventually. The question now is is there still need for the resistance to stand as a separate entity? You likely think there is no more need while i dont agree with that. It is not yet time for such an action (merging or integrating the resistance into the army) to happen.
Besides, with this current sectarian, apartheid, confessional regime, i wont like to see such a powerful force integrate into an army that ultimately takes political orders from a sectarian government or a sectarian ruling class who dont feel answerable to the people and a cabinet in which rogue politicians most times have had a say in it because of the so called "unity govts". I would rather see the weapons returned to Syria/Iran than to have rogue politicians GIVEN a say on them. No F****** way.
Most times mischief-mongers like @GeneralPresident want to turn this particular issue into the Resistance vs the Army. But in reality, the army is in charge of protecting all Lebanese, including those in the resistance. And the army doesnt see its own citizens as enemies and the people rising up to protect themselves from the Israehelli enemy are not viewed as enemies or outlaws by the LA. So there is no conflict between the LA and an indigenous resistance movement.
The main problem is a fragmented political system vs the will of the people to defend themselves vis a vis the resistance. Look at how long it takes us to elect a president. We have had presidential vaccuum twice since 2005. Look at how long it takes us to form govts. Even for the army to fight terrorists in the eastern border, it took years before political order was given. We dont agree on anything within a govt and if we do, it takes much time for all to agree or most to agree. And Lebanon is a country whereby there is no ruling majority and a minority in opposition. In such a divided and sectarian system nothing gets done on time, if at all.
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Bashir10452Greatest
Member
You are saying what HA himself is not saying linking the HA terrorist sectarian militia to internal matters in Lebanon
The Lebanese political system with all its limitations is based on some sort of democratic institution
Of course not perfect but at least the people vote
HA and it’s Terrorists traitor cronies like you are part of a foreign terrorist theocratic sectarian institution
So come on you are a sectarian terrorist militia who take orders from Iran who is a fascist theocratic regime
@Resign
@The Bidenator
Rafidi
Legendary Member
I am giving you my personal opinion. I am trying to analyze and reason based on the post and opinions of Moria.
Do you want us to discuss in a civilized manner or do you want to fight me and let us shout at each other on a public forum and call one another names on and on and on? Whichever way you choose, i can give it to you ?
Bashir10452Greatest
Member
I m not shouting at you ; HA is considered terrorist by many civilized nations including the nation where you live .
It is a sectarian militia being the Islamic resistance who has weapons outside state control ; it is following Wali Fakih who is theocratic regime because Khameiny is considered have the powers of the Imam who is absent. It is fascist because it wants to destroy the democratic state of Israel.
So facts my dear Watson like my friend Sherlock Holmes will say
People in Lebanon who consider HA a terrorist organization are still a minority. Badna more fresh $ from the embassies to continue our campaign. Relay the message please.
I don't think 50% of Lebanese counts a minority.
They're not 50% tho. That's my point...
Bashir10452Greatest
Member
How much people in Lebanon consider HA a terrorist organization is not know not a majority probably but and a big but
Most Lebanese are against HA actions specially fighting Iran war all over the Middle East
I said many nations considered HA terrorist
PS Rafidi live in Germany ?? who consider HA terrorist
You really think LF, Kataeb, PSP, FM supporters and maybe some closeted FPMers don't consider HA to be a terrorist organization?
Yeah, being against some of their actions does not necessarily mean they consider them terrorists.
I'm almost certain they do. Start a poll.
Rafidi
Legendary Member
In one post khabbaset kteer.
My country is Lebanon and HA is not a terrorist organisation based on the laws of my country. Calling someone or a group terrorist has legal implications. In Lebanon, they are not labelled or seen as such and as a Lebanese, that is all that matters to me. When abroad, i keep my opinion to myself and i dont seek to convince anyone i am right or they are wrong. That is not hard for you to do if you try to.
Based on my opinion i can freely express in my country and on a public forum incognito, it is actually an insult to the sane mind of people to label HA a terror group.
Why? There is no way you can compare HA to ISIS or Alqaeda for instance. The so called civilized nations have labelled HA a terror group after years of Israehelli and US pressure and arm twisting, similar to calling the IRA a terror group. In my opinion, i dont think the IRA was or is a terror group but British govt thinks they are/were. Some countries want to appease the demands of bigger or stronger countries like the US and Britain and they also label a group that has got nothing to do with them. Take for instance the BS of Latvia and Slovenia labelling HA a terror. Who really cares? This apparently is a political game and that it why such labelling is an insult to the sane human mind.
Hezballah represents most Lebanese. It is part of our "democratic" and social fabrics and life. You cant ask me to respect those civilized nations' political opinion on my country and its make up and you cant impose anyone's opinion on me when you, yourself do not respect the laws and order of your own country, Lebanon.
If you want to persecute me for holding an opinion or treat me as a prisoner of conscience, then you may need to invent a device to unveil the political opinions of every person and hold them responsible for their political opinions and treat them as prisoners of conscience. You would found out, not surprisingly that no two people have the same exact opinion on anything. Most humans would become prisoners of conscience in that light. That means you should not step foot in Lebanon because your opinion contradicts the reality of political life in Lebanon. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. As far as HA are concerned, they have no military or political presence in the West. They may have social or religious presence through their members or followers who live abroad and take part in prayer groups and religious ceremonies. Those are civil activities. Not political or military. I do not buy the propaganda and character assassination some govts are propagating on HA.
Personally, wherever i have lived and i am living i have always been a law abiding member of society. I do not belong to any political party and not to even the ones i hold favorable views on. I have not used my opinions to offend or harm anyone. You should stop harassing me for having my opinions. If you cant tolerate the opinions of others, then stay offline and keep to yourself.
There is a state approval for their armed presence. Every govt since 1992 has approved that. They represent a large constituency and without their presence in govt, there will not even be a govt to start with. They are part and parcel of govt and governance. They represent Lebanese people. You cant disenfranchise those people and marginalize their votes. How then do you want to govern vast areas of Lebanon? Are you advocating cutting them off or pushing them to secede and form their own republic?
This is a religious matter i bet you have no idea on it. The pope claims to represent Christ as well and all Catholics see him as their leader and he once held political power.
Stop copying my words. I oncecalled LF and Kataeb - the parties you support- fascist and since then you have been throwing that word anyhow. Are you this bankrupt? You so lack originality and creativity. You checked the dictionary and found the word to be very unpleasant. And you keep throwing the word anyhow. Fascism is a movement. It is a political ideology. The parties you supported are right wing and their genesis was fascist because they were modelled after fascist parties in Europe, with whom they had relations. HA cant be fascist and they have nothing to do with fascism because they dont subscribe to the ideology and if you examine their existence and declaration, they are anti fascist. This is the reason HA finds common grounds or understanding with leftists and liberals like myself.
You are allergic to someone holding an opinion contrary to yours. Are you on this forum to persuade me not to hold, or express an opinion? What exactly is your problem?
Partially agree, but that was prior to the year 2000. After that, ALL HA actions have rubbed, not on the army, but the entire population and your country, from north to south. 2006 divine defeat is the last vivid example of that.
This "no more need for such resistance" has already happened. Since 2006, ever since HA has been pushed back away from the borders behind the Litani, no actual "resistance" actions have been conducted against the Israelis and that's 15 years ago. This is argument enough to confirm there's no more need for what you call resistance ( what resistance exactly when there's been none for so long?)
So, bet7our w betdour and comes back to where you actually are and want to be. No ifs and buts, your resistance is not such a powerful force able to take on Israel on its own. And if it is, integrating inside the army will not lose it its titanic ability if properly done.
But the fact of the matter is that you, together with the HA za2iffe, simply do not identify with nor believe in the current Lebanese state or nationality. No amounts of how much you love your army can hide the fact that you'd rather keep your mini Mehdi state and institutions. That is fine, but in that case I hope HA openly push for a disengagement from everything that relates to the current state. Let the LA pack and leave the south, and with it certainly the UN, and let HA, with all their weapons and warriors, take care of your defense and protection. I dare you and HA to lead a protest marsh pressing for HA to completely disengage from the state, declare own mini state and go back to full control of the southern borders and the entire areas where they currently rule.
In other words, you either identify with the current state and help improve it if you still deem it flawed, or you totally disengage and mind your own business, own defense, own taxes, own infrastructure and own goals in life. You can't pick and choose, rely on the state, suck and abuse it for certain things, but give it the middle finger when it suits your own leaders plans and foreign agendas.
Rafidi
Legendary Member
You think the resistance is no longer needed. I don't agree and I dont want to keep repeating myself. The usefulness in having the resistance is not just about fighting. Even in negotiating on the maritime border, if not for the presence of this resistance, Israehell would not have found need to sit and negotiate. They would have grabbed what they want and drill and neither your state nor the LA could have done anything tangible. Be real.
You think the resistance is not powerful. I dont agree either and this is really nonsense. Be real, please. You are wasting my time and i am not responding to these regurgitated BS you have been throwing for months.
You say the resistance have been pushed to North of the Litani. Netanyahu and his army dont agree with that.They said recently that they discovered tunnels. And neither has HA said or declared that they are not South of the Litani. You are wasting my time honestly.
As for "disengaging from the state", this is preposterous. If a party like HA "disengages" from "the state", would there be any state remaining? HA is not for partition or federalism, going by their speech. They have time and again objected to partition and federalism. Partition and federalism advocates are advocates of civil war. All sects are found all over Lebanon and you cant divide such a small and diverse country more than it is already divided. So do not expect others to make your segregationist dreams come to life. Whoever wants to disengage, should feel free to leave. When Jumblatt called for "divorce" in 2008, SHN replied: "whoever wants divorce should leave the house"!!!!!! ??
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Rafidi
Legendary Member
Calling someone or a group "terrorist" is not based on popular opinion. It has legal implications. And those legal implications dont exist in Lebanon even if 99% of Lebanese consider HA "terrorist". For there to be legal implications, the government has to label the group as such. That has not and will never be done in Lebanon, except you want rivers of Lebanese blood to flow. In Egypt it could be done on the Muslim Brotherhood because Mr Sisi is a fellow Sunni and there is no sectarian divisions in Egypt and no external factors or enemies. Egyptian society is not littered qitj arms. In Lebanon it cannot be done.
Those individuals in Lebanon who consider HA "terrorist" while the Lebanese govt does not and will never, are no different from a Lebanese or anyone living in the US or in Germany and who does not think Hezballah is "terrorist" while the govts in those countries have labelled it such. It is just public opinion and people dont always agree with govt decisions and policies, even if they are compelled to abide by the laws.
The fact remains majority of Lebanese from all sects (above 50%) dont buy the label that Hezballah is a terrorist group. This is for sure. Anyone who says otherwise is deceiving himself.
Rafidi
Legendary Member
Homosexuality is legal in many Western countries. And there are still people who think it should not be legal espeicially for religious or "moral" reasons. But they cant do anything about its legal status. No one is prosecuted or charged for being a homosexual.
Homosexuality is illegal in most African countries. And there are gay people and gay rights activists who think it should not be illegal and should be legalized. But they cant do anything about its illegal status. If someone is caught engaged in homosexuality, he would be prosecuted anyways.
So you cant criminalize people for their opinions or beliefs as far as they have not broken laws. Actions are criminalized. Millions of Lebanese living around the world dont consider Hezballah "terrorist" even if they live in countries that have labelled Hezballah "terrorist". You cant do anything about their opinions or beliefs as far as they haven't broken any law. But of coure to a fascist right wing idiot, you want to govern people's opinions and force them on how to think and what to believe. This is fascist tendency you are displaying right here.
Did I corner the chicken again as to make it lose its mind?
Btfeham 3arabe, english, or shall I take it in 3ajameh?
Resistance, eh add ma baddak, but ONLY INSIDE THE ARMY. Else, zimma or go Resist on your own in own mini declared state, you are the one wasting everyone's time with your worming around. 2al tunnels 2al.. Smallah 3a heik resistance that gets every tunnel it dugs destroyed w still boasts about doing resistance, men ta7t la ta7t, literally, or men b3eed la b3eed.
Regarding divorce, I do hope they tell you one day: 2ente tal2a ente ta2a ente ta2a w dabbro 7alkoun when the mullahs money are no more. You should only know how much the Iranian people love sending you, the Iraqis and Yemenis their money while they go hungry. ?
Bashir10452Greatest
Member
Wow ? you wrote a PhD thesis
First you are the only idiot in the Room
Second facts :
- HA is not the Boy Scout; it is a sectarian militia, it is the Islamic Resistance, a military movement who is fully armed by Iran and whose ideology is wholly Islamic like the Iranian Islamic Republic. Nobody in Lebanon elected HA , they are a small minority in Lebanon having 13 deputies and they were elected by 17 percent of the Voters in 2018. Even with Amal who is much more secular they received around 27 percent of the votes ? and 30 deputies who represented 24 percent of parliament.
- Today all opinion polls and students elections are showing that 80 percent of the Lebanese have turned on HA .
- HA is on world terrorist list because it killed hundreds of people in the West not only the marines and the French Soldiers in Beirut but also hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq , Syria and Yemen. They are supporting Assad who killed 1 million Syrians and sent millions of refugees all over the World ?. Plus HA made Terrorists attacks in Europe and Asia and is accused of drug trafficking and money laundering. Plus HA kidnapped many westerners in Lebanon in the 1980s .
-You said you lived in Germany today you changed your opinion; I leave your lies and contradictions for you
- You left South of the Litany defeated in 2006 , the Lebanese army took your place and is applying Resolution 1701. When you established tunnels they were closed by Israeli, the Lebanese Army and the UN on both parts of the borders .
- Today HA main mission is to fight Iran war in the Middle East being Iran Lapdog and living meats; Iran will never fight Israel or the USA; Mercenaries HA will do the job .
- We have already left the house, today Lebanon is de facto divided into 4 major cantons Christians Sunni Druze Shia ; nothing hold us together except the flag , the lira and the army. Each community had its local authorities, its schools, its hospitals, its social position, its way of life , its own civil and religious courts and its Universities. You have your own private army and the banks will soon close in your regions in order not to be sanctioned by USA ??. Today the Population on Lebanon are living in their own regions where HA have no place. The Christians live in Eastern Beirut, Matn, Keserwan, part of the north , Zahle, part of the shouf and jezzin : we are divided on community grounds and I have more common ground with an European or American than with a Shia whose affinity is with Teheran .