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UAE Israel, Bahrain and UAE reach historic peace deal

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You are not serious. 40,000 dead’s directly by the Syrian army. Israel is an angel compared to Syria.
I don't think Syria ever shelled ambulances carrying innocent children.
The level of crime committed by Israel is unprecedented in the history of warfare.

Syria was one of the warring factions during the Lebanese war. It was invited into Lebanon by the president. It did probably target civilians by mistake but it mainly fought armed militias.
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Wallah ya shabeb the future is bleak for Lebanon. Despite all our current ordeals another major problem will hit us soon.
Once the KSA normalizes with the israelis, all the rest will fall.
The problem is that the zionist are more advanced than us and they will take from us whatever tiny crumbs left for us by the arabs.
You name it: tourism, industry, agriculture, health care, services....

Is it enough to say F*CK everyone in this state MIN EL KBIR LAL ZGHIR WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION ???

You country is yours - if you do not like "tourism, industry, agriculture, health care, services...." you do not have to allow it.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What’s happening with the gulf states is that they chose what they consider the lesser of two evils... it’s not surprising. Given Biden is president elect (of course pending court cases), it’s likely his administration will engage Iran as did Obama... MbS positioned himself to counter that... or at least not to get impacted if it still happened. As for lebanon, we are too divided to matter. Should we support HA and then watch them take full control of the state and allow the likes of Berri to steal and get away with it, at the same time alienating the Sunnis, or should we go against them and deepen the divisions with the Shiite sect and still watch the sunnis try and take full control of the state and allow the likes of Hariri to steal and get away with it? Choices choices...
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What’s happening with the gulf states is that they chose what they consider the lesser of two evils... it’s not surprising. Given Biden is president elect (of course pending court cases), it’s likely his administration will engage Iran as did Obama... MbS positioned himself to counter that... or at least not to get impacted if it still happened. As for lebanon, we are too divided to matter. Should we support HA and then watch them take full control of the state and allow the likes of Berri to steal and get away with it, at the same time alienating the Sunnis, or should we go against them and deepen the divisions with the Shiite sect and still watch the sunnis try and take full control of the state and allow the likes of Hariri to steal and get away with it? Choices choices...
unfortunately this country is so complicated to harbor any durable solution
it needs someone charismatic enough to attract wide range of lebanese people (trans-sect) and do not screw up, in order to create a positive shock.
I don't know when would this happen.
Many countries passed by similar situation, even USA has this problem if you look at the elections.
To be able to overcome it you need a leader that reassemble the people, not alienate them
 

NewLeb

Member
The main issue here is that political Zionism has been equated to some sort of ethereal and outer-dimensional evil that is the root of all civilizational and universal chaos.

To phrase this in the form of a question: Is Israel more than just a modern and Western democracy (albeit with some Jewish elements thrown into the mix) existing in the ME; or are we dealing with something here that is explicably linked to an eschatological chain of events?

Where does Lebanon and Hezbollah really stand in this regard?
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
The main issue here is that political Zionism has been equated to some sort of ethereal and outer-dimensional evil that is the root of all civilizational and universal chaos.

To phrase this in the form of a question: Is Israel more than just a modern and Western democracy (albeit with some Jewish elements thrown into the mix) existing in the ME; or are we dealing with something here that is explicably linked to an eschatological chain of events?

Where does Lebanon and Hezbollah really stand in this regard?

I agree with you, Zionism is no different than any other national movement - just like Phoenicians want their country free, so Jews too.
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Yeah, but the Phoenicians didn’t kill Jesus (his actual death is a subject of debate).

Jews did. That makes all the difference.

Yeah, but Jews do not stick their noses into internal Phoenician business and Jews do not worship man as a god.

It makes all the difference.
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Because he, as an ordinary member of government, has no authority to organize meetings with foreign leaders. Lebanon even didn't respond his invitation.
Because he organized these stupid and unnecessary negotiations with almost guaranteed negative result.

"Because he, as an ordinary member of government, has no authority to organize meetings with foreign leaders"
--
Which hardly makes him an idiot.
Besides this invitation is completely normal - Aoun is not personally invited, but his government that can be represented by Lebanese number equal to Steinitz by rank.

"Lebanon even didn't respond his invitation"
--
As it is Lebanon's right, but it hardly makes Steinitz an idiot or Lebnon a winner.
On the contrary, now entire World knows that it is Lebanon that refuses to cooperate and not Israel.

"Because he organized these stupid and unnecessary negotiations with almost guaranteed negative result"
--
One cannot be an idiot if for trying, this is how progresas is being made.
However, one can be an idiot if one refuses to try, enjoy results and achievements similar to that of Palestinian Arabs.
 

divergent

New Member
"Because he, as an ordinary member of government, has no authority to organize meetings with foreign leaders"
--
Which hardly makes him an idiot.
Besides this invitation is completely normal - Aoun is not personally invited, but his government that can be represented by Lebanese number equal to Steinitz by rank.
Aoun was personaĺly invited.
On the contrary, now entire World knows that it is Lebanon that refuses to cooperate and not Israel.
The entire world perfectly knows that Lebanon never cooperated with Israel and never intended to.
One cannot be an idiot if for trying, this is how progresas is being made.

However, one can be an idiot if one refuses to try, enjoy results and achievements similar to that of Palestinian Arabs.
According to this analogy Israel refuses to cooperate with Palestinians. Really?
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Aoun was personaĺly invited.

The entire world perfectly knows that Lebanon never cooperated with Israel and never intended to.

According to this analogy Israel refuses to cooperate with Palestinians. Really?

"Israel refuses to cooperate with Palestinians" - nope, not even close.
 

Jeremy Samuel

New Member
Actually if you think about, the normalization will be forced on us in one way or the other, whether we like it or not, whether HA likes it or not...
Sooner or later the israelis will take big projects in the gulf, and if lebanese companies have to survive over there, they will have to subcontract from the israeli companies or work on projects with israeli companies.
So whether they like it or not they will have to collaborate with them, otherwise no projects and no money.
This will make the normalization a fact

Shou ya khawaja @agnostic what is your say in my previous posts ??

Even before Israel's normalization with the UAE and Bahrain, I thought Lebanon was being pulled inexorably towards a deal with Israel because of the collapse of the Syrian economy and stagnation in many other ME countries, which I think will be long-term due to the world's transition to EVs and renewable energy.

I know that Lebanon exports very little, but it needs at least _some_ nearby trading partner.

I know that Lebanese are extremely talented and that if Lebanon had a functional system of government it could thrive, but even if Lebanon changed its laws overnight and corruption vanished, economic revival would take years, even decades. I would think, if I were Lebanese, that at least a deal with Israel is economically attractive because its effects would be felt so quickly.
 
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