Israel - Palestine peace process

Walidos

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
OK, for those who are exceptionally gifted I repeat again - Arabs of Judea go back to Arabia and Jews of Arabia go back to Judea.

Oh, and irrespective of their religion too.
seems you are the one who is exceptionally gifted... how about the americans of chinese origin go back to china, or brazilians of lebanese descent go back to Lebanon, or lebanese of armenian descent go back to armenia... seruously deranged people!
 
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  • proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    seems you are the one who is exceptionally gifted... how about the americans of chinese origin go back to china, or brazilians of lebanese descent go back to Lebanon, or lebanese of armenian descent go back to armenia... seruously deranged people!
    We are talking here about Arab-Jew inability to live together - do not try to highjack the issue using cheap shots.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    seems you are the one who is exceptionally gifted... how about the americans of chinese origin go back to china, or brazilians of lebanese descent go back to Lebanon, or lebanese of armenian descent go back to armenia... seruously deranged people!
    She proves without a doubt that you cannot possibly reason with a Zionist. You use force only.
     
    Danny Z

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    seems you are the one who is exceptionally gifted... how about the americans of chinese origin go back to china, or brazilians of lebanese descent go back to Lebanon, or lebanese of armenian descent go back to armenia... seruously deranged people!
    Idiots should go back to idiocia
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    OK, for those who are exceptionally gifted I repeat again - Arabs of Judea go back to Arabia and Jews of Arabia go back to Judea.

    Oh, and irrespective of their religion too.
    And who told you Palestinians come from Arabia?
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Christian Palestinians reject calls to join Israeli army

    Friday, 25 April 2014 15:04

    33 27

    0 63

    Palestinian Christian
    Representatives of orthodox national institutions in Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories have rejected the recruitment of Christians in the Israeli army yesterday.

    At a meeting in Jerusalem the foundations emphasised that the churches, Christian institutions and members of Christian denominations strongly reject recruiting their children in the Israeli army on the basis of ethical, humanitarian and national considerations.

    They stressed that "those who call for recruitment and encourage Christian youth to join the occupation army do not represent the church and do not represent Christians of whom the majority reject the army recruitment in its entirety."

    The Orthodox institutions called on the Christian youth who receive forms requesting them to volunteer in the Israeli army to "shred them and throw them in the bin because dealing with these requests is not permitted in any way".

    They stressed the importance of young people collectively rejecting and confirming their allegiance to Palestinian Arabs. They have also approved a series of activities and events that call for the rejection of recruitment as well as a media campaign to explain the seriousness of this phenomenon.

    The idea of Christian youth recruitment was raised in June last year when a hundred or so supporters of the military service met in the town of Jaffa; they were mostly Christian soldiers in the ranks of the Israeli army and police. The group was in the presence of the bishop Gabriel Nadav of the Greek Orthodox community and a number of security men.

    In response to this, the Greek Orthodox community spokesman in Jerusalem Father Issa Musleh said: "We reject the recruitment of our Christian children in the Israeli army in Nazareth, Jaffa or anywhere else in the country and we have stated so in the past."

    Musleh added: "It is not permitted for any Priest or anyone of the priesthood to tarnish the reputation or, through giving a political opinion, offend the Arab Orthodox Christian community, which has led and continues to play a role in the Palestinian struggle and has numerous historical accounts in doing so."

    Source: Al Araby
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/n...alestinians-reject-calls-to-join-israeli-army
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    Then force it is and may the best people win.
    I don't give and take with you because you're so full of it and your style is like Weezy on the Syria thread. Even your avatar is hilarious lol I'm not patient anymore for silly talk. I really don't know how anyone growing older with the years can be bothered. Ostrich :fear:
     
    EuroMode

    EuroMode

    Active Member
    Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail, says John Kerry

    It is believed to be the first time a US official of Kerry's standing has used the term 'apartheid' in the context of Israel





    The US secretary of state, John Kerry, has warned in a closed-door meeting in Washington that Israel risks becoming an "apartheid state" if US-sponsored efforts to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement fail.

    In an apparent sign of Kerry's deep frustration over the almost certain collapse of the current nine-month round of peace talks – due to conclude on Tuesday – he blamed both sides for the lack of progress and said failure could lead to a resumption of Palestinian violence against Israeli citizens.

    The remarks were made on Friday at the Trilateral Commission, a non-governmental organisation of experts and officials from the US, western Europe, Russia and Japan. A recording was acquired by the Daily Beast website.

    Kerry also suggested that a change of either Israeli or Palestinian leadership might create more favourable conditions for peace and the final, long-delayed agreement on the shape of a Palestinian state.

    Aftewards, as a public storm grew around the remarks, Kerry issued a statement regretting the use of the word apartheid, saying it had opened him to "partisan political" attacks.

    "If I could rewind the tape, I would have chosen a different word," he said.

    Israeli leaders had made similar points in the past but "apartheid [is] a word best left out of the debate here at home", Kerry said.

    Regardless of the apology, Kerry's remarks represent a significant departure, as senior US officials historically have avoided the word "apartheid" relating to Israeli policies. It is believed to be the first time a US official of Kerry's standing has used the contentious term in the context of Israel, even if only as a warning for the future.

    The Emergency Committee for Israel, whose chairman is the prominent neo-conservative William Kristol, said: "On Friday secretary of state John Kerry raised the spectre of Israel as an 'apartheid state'. Even Barack Obama condemned the use of this term when running for president in 2008. It is no longer enough for the White House to clean up after the messes John Kerry has made. It is time for John Kerry to step down as secretary of state, or for President Obama to fire him."

    Although the danger to Israel of a failure to move towards a two-state solution has been framed by Israeli politicians in terms similar to those used by Kerry, US officials have long been wary of following suit. When the former president Jimmy Carter used it for the tile of his 2006 book Palestine: Peace or Apartheid it caused controversy.

    Kerry's comments reflect similar recent warnings to Israel from western diplomats that the collapse of the peace talks might lead to the country's increasing isolation.

    Kerry said: "A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens – or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state.

    "Once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two-state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to."

    Kerry has had a sometimes strained relationship with some senior Israeli officials as the peace talks have become gridlocked. In January Israel's defence minister, Moshe Ya'alon, described Kerry as "obsessive and messianic".

    In 2008 in an interview during his election campaign, Barack Obama explicitly rejected "injecting a term like apartheid" into the discussion over Israel and Palestine. "It's emotionally loaded, historically inaccurate, and it's not what I believe," he said.

    Attempting to defuse the row, Jen Psaki, spokesperson for the US state department, said: "Secretary Kerry, like justice minister Livni and previous Israeli prime ministers Olmert and Barak, was reiterating why there's no such thing as a one-state solution if you believe, as he does, in the principle of a Jewish state.

    "[Kerry] was talking about the kind of future Israel wants and the kind of future both Israelis and Palestinians would want to envision. The only way to have two nations and two peoples living side by side in peace and security is through a two-state solution. And without a two-state solution, the level of prosperity and security the Israeli and Palestinian people deserve isn't possible."

    source Guardian
     
    J. Abizeid

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    Sterling Credibility…

    Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail, says John Kerry

    It is believed to be the first time a US official of Kerry's standing has used the term 'apartheid' in the context of Israel

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/w...-remark-that-israel-risks-apartheid.html?_r=0

    Kerry Apologizes for Remark That Israel Risks Apartheid:doh:

    APRIL 28, 2014

    WASHINGTON — Secretary of State
    John Kerry issued an unusual statement Monday evening expressing his support for Israel after a controversy erupted over a politically charged phrase he used in a private appearance.
    Speaking to a closed-door meeting of the Trilateral Commission last week, Mr. Kerry said that if a Middle East peace agreement was not achieved, Israel risked becoming an “apartheid state,”
    according to an article in The Daily Beast, an online publication. The comments were noted in the Israeli news media and were severely criticized by some American Jewish organizations.
    “Any suggestion that Israel is, or is at risk of becoming, an apartheid state is offensive and inappropriate,”
    the American Israel Public Affairs Committee said. “Israel is the lone stable democracy in the Middle East, protects the rights of minorities regardless of ethnicity or religion.”

    Republican lawmakers were also critical. Senator Marco Rubio, a Florida Republican and possible presidential contender, said Mr. Kerry’s comments were “outrageous and disappointing.”
    During his push for a comprehensive peace agreement, Mr. Kerry has repeatedly warned that Israel could face economic pressure from European nations as well as
    Palestinian violence and a demographic time bomb at home — meaning Jews could become a minority in Israel and the territories they control — if Israel did not negotiate an agreement that led to an independent Palestinian state.
    His recent comments came at a particularly sensitive moment with the peace talks put off, after Israel’s decision to suspend negotiations because of the Palestine Liberation Organization’s announcement of its reconciliation with Hamas, the Islamic militant group that governs Gaza.
    In the statement that Mr. Kerry issued Monday, which bore the title “On Support for Israel,” he said that he had been a staunch supporter of Israel during his years as a senator and had spent many hours since working with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli officials.
    “For more than 30 years in the United States Senate, I didn’t just speak words in support of Israel,” Mr. Kerry said in his statement. “I walked the walk when it came time to vote and when it came time to fight.”
    Mr. Kerry added that he did not believe that Israel was an “apartheid state” or intended to become one. Mr. Kerry did not dispute he had used the phrase but said it had led to a “misimpression” about his views.
    “If I could rewind the tape, I would have chosen a different word to describe my firm belief that the only way in the long term to have a Jewish state and two nations and two peoples living side by side in peace and security is through a two state solution,” he said.
    “In the long term, a unitary, binational state cannot be the democratic Jewish state that Israel deserves or the prosperous state with full rights that the Palestinian people deserve,” he added.
    J Street, a pro-peace Jewish organization, defended Mr. Kerry. “Instead of putting energy into attacking Secretary Kerry, those who are upset with the secretary’s use of the term should put their energy into opposing and changing the policies that are leading Israel down this road,” it said in a statement.
    But Aaron David Miller, a former American peace negotiator now at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, said that Mr. Kerry’s comment had drawn him into an “unproductive fight with a close ally.”
    “Baker and Kissinger used tough language when they thought they would not only be able to make a point, but would be able to make a difference,” Mr. Miller said of James A. Baker III and Henry A. Kissinger, both former secretaries of state. “But Kerry’s closed-door comment was ill timed, ill advised and unwise.”
     
    J. Abizeid

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    Word Apartheid: 'Why can't John Kerry stand behind his statement on Israel?'


    Published on Apr 29, 2014 US Secretary of State, John Kerry is in damage control mode after some behind-closed-door comments. Kerry apparently warned Israel it was headed to an 'apartheid state'. He issued a strong statement apologizing and said he wished he had chosen a different word. For more on this RT is joined by Harretz newspaper columnist Gideon Levy.
     
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    EuroMode

    EuroMode

    Active Member
    Netanyahu Pushes Law Declaring Israel As A Jewish State

    JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Thursday he would seek a new law declaring Israel a Jewish state, striking back against a Palestinian refusal to recognize that status in now-collapsed peace talks.

    "I will promote a Basic Law that will define Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people," Netanyahu said in a speech in Tel Aviv that alluded to Palestinian rejection of his demand to recognize Israel as such in the U.S.-backed negotiations.

    Palestinians fear this label would lead to discrimination against Israel's sizeable Arab minority, which makes up a fifth of its population, and negate any right of return of Palestinian refugees from wars since 1948 to what is now Israel.

    Israeli enshrinement in law of the concept of Israel as a Jewish state - a definition that was included in its 1948 Declaration of Independence - could complicate any efforts to restart negotiations that stumbled over that issue and others.

    Netanyahu, speaking in the hall where the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1948, said those seeking the creation of a Palestinian state, while refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish nation, were challenging its right to exist.

    Mohammad Barakeh, an Arab lawmaker from the left-wing Hadash party, said legislation declaring a Jewish state would be racist in nature. "The truth is, I was surprised by his intention to bring this as a Basic Law," Barakeh told Reuters by telephone.

    "I have been following Netanyahu's actions in the peace talks. I know he doesn't want peace and wants to put a spanner in the works. But he's gone too far with this."

    In lieu of a formal constitution, a series of Basic Laws adopted by parliament since Israel's founding define governmental, legislative and judicial powers, protect civil rights and codify Jerusalem's internationally disputed status as the country's capital.

    A new Basic Law declaring Israel a Jewish state would largely be symbolic, an Israeli official said. "It is declaration to show that this is part of our national ethos."

    Israel's Basic Law declaring Jerusalem, including the eastern sector captured in a 1967 war, its "eternal and indivisible capital" does not carry any punitive measures against those who oppose that declared status.

    Netanyahu, in his address, pledged that Israel will always "ensure full equality in the personal and social rights of all its citizens - Jews and non-Jews alike - in a Jewish and democratic state."

    source businessinsider
     
    EuroMode

    EuroMode

    Active Member
    Remembering the Nakba: Israeli group puts 1948 Palestine back on the map

    Zochrot aims to educate Israeli Jews – through tours and a new phone app – about a history obscured by enmity and denial





    In a run-down office in the busy centre of Tel Aviv, a group of Israelis are finalising preparations for this year's independence day holiday. But their conversation – switching between Arabic and Hebrew – centres not on celebrating the historic realisation of the Zionist dream in May 1948, but on the other side of the coin: the flight, expulsion and dispossession that Palestinians call their catastrophe – the Nakba.

    Maps, leaflets and posters explain the work of Zochrot – Hebrew for "Remembering". The organisation's mission is to educate Israeli Jews about a history that has been obscured by enmity, propaganda and denial for much of the last 66 years.

    Next week, Zochrot, whose activists include Jews and Palestinians, will connect the bitterly contested past with the hi-tech present. Its I-Nakba phone app will allow users to locate any Arab village that was abandoned during the 1948 war on an interactive map, learn about its history (including, in many cases, the Jewish presence that replaced it), and add photos, comments and data.

    It is all part of a highly political and inevitably controversial effort to undo the decades-long erasure of landscape and memory – and, so the hope goes, to build a better future for the two peoples who share a divided land.

    "There is an app for everything these days, and this one will show all the places that have been wiped off the map," explains Raneen Jeries, Zochrot's media director. "It means that Palestinians in Ein Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon, say, can follow what happened to the village in Galilee that their family came from – and they will get a notification every time there's an update. Its amazing."

    In a conflict famous for its irreconcilable national narratives, the basic facts are not disputed, though the figures are. Between November 1947, when the UN voted to partition British-ruled Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states, and mid-1949, when Israel emerged victorious against its enemies, 400-500 Arab villages and towns were depopulated and destroyed or occupied and renamed. Most of them were left in ruins.

    Understanding has deepened since the late 1980s, when Israeli historians used newly opened state archives to revisit that fateful period. Key elements of this new history contradicted the old, official version and partially confirmed what Palestinians had always claimed – that many were expelled by Israeli forces rather than fled at the urging of Arab leaders.

    Fierce debate still rages over whether this was done on an ad hoc basis by local military commanders or according to a masterplan for ethnic cleansing. The result either way was disastrous.

    Zochrot's focus on the hyper-sensitive question of the 750,000 Palestinians who became refugees has earned it the hostility of the vast majority of Israeli Jews who flatly reject any Palestinian right of return. Allowing these refugees – now, with their descendants, numbering seven million people – to return to Jaffa, Haifa or Acre, the argument goes, would destroy the Jewish majority, the raison d'etre of the Zionist project. (Israelis often also suggest an equivalence with the hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees who lost homes and property after 1948 in Arab countries such as Iraq and Morocco - although their departure was encouraged and facilitated by the young state in the 1950s.)

    "There are a lot of Israeli organisations that deal with the occupation of 1967, but Zochrot is the only one that is dealing with 1948," said Liat Rosenberg, the NGO's director. "It's true that our influence is more or less negligible but nowadays there is no Israeli who does not at least know the word Nakba. It's entered the Hebrew language, and that's progress."

    Rosenberg and colleagues hold courses and prepare learning resources for teachers, skirting around attempts to outlaw any kind of Nakba commemoration. But the heart of Zochrot's work is regular guided tours that are designed, like the gimmicky iPhone app, to put Palestine back on the map and to prepare the ground for the refugees' return.

    On a recent Saturday morning, a couple of dozen Jews and Arabs met at a petrol station on the southern outskirts of Jerusalem and followed a dirt track to al-Walaja, a village of 2,000 inhabitants that was attacked and depopulated in 1948. Zochrot's Omar al-Ghubari pointed out the concrete foundations – all that remains – of a school and marked the spot with a metal sign in Arabic, Hebrew and English, before posing for photographs.

    Among those following him was Shireen al-Araj, whose father was born in al-Walaja and fled to Beit Jallah across what until 1967 was the armistice line with Jordan. "I have never given up the idea of going back to al-Walaja," she said. Araj is campaigning against the extension of the West Bank separation wall, part of what she and many Palestinians call a continuing Nakba.

    Another participant was Tarik Ramahi, an American surgeon raised in Saudi Arabia by Palestinian refugee parents. Marina, a Jewish social worker, came with her boyfriend Tomer, an IT student. Wandering among the ruins, these unconventional daytrippers attracted some curious glances from Israelis picnicking on the terraces or bathing in the village spring – now named for a Jewish teenager murdered by Palestinians in the 1990s. Claire Oren, a teacher, had a heated argument with two off-duty soldiers who were unaware of al-Walaja's past – or even of the extent of Israel's continuing control of the West Bank.

    Nearby Ein Karem – Zochrot's most popular tour – is a different story. Abandoned by the Palestinians in July 1948 (it is near Deir Yassin, the scene of the period's most notorious massacre), it boasts churches, a mosque and fine stone houses clustered around a valley that is choked with wild flowers in the spring. Its first post-war residents were poor Moroccan Jewish immigrants, but it was intensively gentrified in the 1970s and is now one of west Jerusalem's most desirable neighbourhoods.

    In 1967, Shlomo Abulafia, now a retired agronomist, moved into a two-room hovel that he and his wife, Meira, have transformed beyond recognition into a gracious Arab-style home set in a charming garden. Relatives of the original owners once visited from Jordan. Like other Israeli Jews who yearn for coexistence with the Palestinians, Abulafia believes it is vital to understand how the other side feels. He worries desperately about the future of his fractured homeland and about his children and grandchildren.

    "The Nakba is history for us but a catastrophe for them," he says. "What have we got to lose from recognising the Palestinians' suffering? The two sides are moving further and further away from each other. People live in fear. There is a lot of denial here."

    Many other Arab villages disappeared without trace under kibbutz fields and orchards, city suburbs or forests planted by the Jewish National Fund. Arab Isdud became Israeli Ashdod. Saffuriya in Galilee is now Zippori, the town's Hebrew name before the Arab conquest in the seventh century.

    Zochrot's bilingual guide book identifies traces of Arab Palestine all over the country – fragments of stone wall, clumps of prickly pears that served as fences, or the neglected tombs of Muslim holy men. The faculty club of Tel Aviv University used to be the finest house in Sheikh Muwannis, once on the northern edge of the expanding Jewish city. Nothing else is left. Manshiyeh, a suburb of Jaffa, lies beneath the seaside Charles Clore promenade.

    Palestinians have long mourned their lost land, eulogising it – and in recent years documenting it – with obsessive care. Politically, the right of return remains a totemic demand even if PLO leaders have often said privately that they do not expect it to be implemented – except for symbolic numbers – if an independent Palestinian state is created alongside Israel and Jewish settlers uprooted from its territory. Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, provoked uproar in 2012 when he said he would not expect to be able to return to his home town of Safed.

    Older Israeli Jews like Meron Benvenisti, raised in British-ruled Palestine during the 1930s, have written nostalgically about the forgotten landscapes of their childhood.

    "I also identify with the images of the destroyed villages," said Danny Rubinstein, a Jerusalem-born author and journalist. "I do understand the Palestinians' longing and I empathise with it. But I think that Zochrot is a mistake. The Palestinians know, or their leadership knows, that they have to forget Ramle and Lod and Jaffa. Abbas says he can't go back to Safed. They have to give up the return as a national goal. If I was a Palestinian politician I would say that you don't have to remember. You have to forget."

    Hopes for a negotiated two-state solution to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians are fading after the collapse of the latest US-brokered effort, and mutual empathy and understanding are in short supply. But Claire Oren, resting in a shady grove in what was once the centre of al-Walaja, thinks more knowledge might help. "Even if only one Israeli becomes a bit more aware of the Nakba and the Palestinian refugees, it is important," she reflected. "The more Israelis who understand, the more likely we are to be able to prevent another catastrophe in this land."


    source Guardian
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Word Apartheid: 'Why can't John Kerry stand behind his statement on Israel?'
    I do not see what you can expect out of Kerry remark.

    If, as you claim, Kerry said "Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail", then it means that you agree that Israel is not apartheid state ... yet.

    And if "Israel risks becoming", then it means that nothing is guarantied.

    So, what exactly makes you this exited.
     
    Frisbeetarian

    Frisbeetarian

    Legendary Member
    It is obvious that Arabs and Jews are not willing to live together, so let's keep them segregated.

    I think instead of making videos we should propose rational and fair solution where:

    Arabs of Judea go back to Arabia and Jews of Arabia go back to Judea.
    Should the Arabs of Egypt go back to Arabia?
     
    Frisbeetarian

    Frisbeetarian

    Legendary Member
    I do not see what you can expect out of Kerry remark.

    If, as you claim, Kerry said "Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail", then it means that you agree that Israel is not apartheid state ... yet.

    And if "Israel risks becoming", then it means that nothing is guarantied.

    So, what exactly makes you this exited.
    You built your conclusion on an false premise. How does posting what Kerry said mean that one agrees with him?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Should the Arabs of Egypt go back to Arabia?
    Absolutely.

    In fact, I hope, that Jews are only the very first people who begun fighting for freedom and against Arab oppression.

    Entire North Africa and most of the Middle East are occupied by Arabs, there is much work to be done.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    You built your conclusion on an false premise. How does posting what Kerry said mean that one agrees with him?
    It depends on who posted, what was posted and comments added to a post.

    Still, with which part of Kerry's remark do you agree and which one do you disagree?
     
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