Saudi Arabia Jamal khashoggi assassinated inside the saudi consulate in istanbul

Mighty Goat

Mighty Goat

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Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship that already spies on its citizens and punishes dissent. I'd say this transaction was expected, not scandalous. Israel is a pioneer in technology, including cyber warfare, so when you want the best you go to the one that makes the best. That is Israel. MBS simply went to the best. I'd argue that is also expected.
To each individual there are standards and these personal standards are irrelevant in International relations where a moral standard governs the legitimacy and the legality of any war. Individual standards are normally low and interest driven while international relations sets a system of norms governed by legal code. No one can sell weapons to a country waging an illegal war against its citizens.
Israel is promoting a world founded on immorality and criminality of international relations. Sadly, Israel doesn't see that the system that brought it into existence in Nazi Germany collapsed regardless of its might because it was an immoral system and not because it was anti-Semitic.
 
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  • Muki

    Muki

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    To each individual there are standards and these personal standards are irrelevant in International relations where a moral standard governs the legitimacy and the legality of any war. Individual standards are normally low and interest driven while international relations sets a system of norms governed by legal code. No one can sell weapons to a country waging an illegal war against its citizens.
    Israel is promoting a world founded on immorality and criminality of international relations. Sadly, Israel doesn't see that the system that brought it into existence in Nazi Germany collapsed regardless of its might because it was an immoral system and not because it was anti-Semitic.
    As far as international law is concerned, dictatorships favoring the interests of the UNSC members with veto power are spared. Dictatorships to the contrary are punished. Saudi Arabia favors at least one members of the security council with veto power, the United States. Therefore, what they are doing is quite in line with international law.

    What Saudi Arabia is doing is quite expected of a dictatorship.

    For the record, Nazi Germany did not collapse because it was immoral, it collapsed because of the strategic alliance between the Allied and Soviet war machines. When interests collide... if Hitler was smart and kept the pact with the Soviets, the European Allies would've been toast... at least until intervention by the Americans, which would have come much sooner.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

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    The fact that Saudi Arabia is buying the spying program for one. Two is that this spying program is sold by an Israeli company specializing in cyberwar weapons where Israel knows that these weapons are geared to operate against political opposition to the Saudi Government. This is scandalous.
    It might be scandalous from Arab point of view, from my point of view it is controvertial and yet encouraging.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    As far as international law is concerned, dictatorships favoring the interests of the UNSC members with veto power are spared. Dictatorships to the contrary are punished. Saudi Arabia favors at least one members of the security council with veto power, the United States. Therefore, what they are doing is quite in line with international law.

    What Saudi Arabia is doing is quite expected of a dictatorship.

    For the record, Nazi Germany did not collapse because it was immoral, it collapsed because of the strategic alliance between the Allied and Soviet war machines. When interests collide... if Hitler was smart and kept the pact with the Soviets, the European Allies would've been toast... at least until intervention by the Americans, which would have come much sooner.
    Indeed what would demoralize any immoral order is the disobedience it generates at the local level which leads to the collapse and not the might of the weakness of the alliance.
    The explanation you suggest is the realist explanation of power relations which is an explanation that is not scientific as it is not supported with factually.
    Machiavelli and Hobbes spoke on behalf of perished Kings and certainly didn't project except the system of values of these that happened to be the ancient regime held for values and collapsed and so did Hitler and so would Saudi Arabia and company.
    Check this book

    Disobeying Hitler: German Resistance in the Last Year of WWII By
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

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    Turkey claim they arrested the local ( cleaner crew) that rid of al the body of the pro kaeda kashageji
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    Politics
    Saudi Prince to Face Protest Over Khashoggi on Tunisia Visit
    By
    Jihen Laghmari
    November 26, 2018, 10:36 AM ESTUpdated on November 27, 2018, 2:01 AM EST
    • Tunisian activists tried to block Mohammed bin Salman’s stay
    • Prince is on his first overseas trip since Khashoggi’s murder

    Boycott In Response To Khashoggi Murder
    Tunisian journalists and activists began demonstrations against Tuesday’s visit by Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, displaying a large banner of the kingdom’s de facto leader with a chainsaw to protest the killing of critic Jamal Khashoggi.
    MBS, as the power behind the Saudi throne is known, is expected to arrive in the North African country as part of his first overseas trip since the murder of Khashoggi at the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul last month provoked an international outcry and strained ties with some western countries.
    Several dozen activists rallied outside the Municipal Theater in central Tunis Monday evening to protest against the prince, with another demonstration planned for the next day when he arrives. “Bin Salman is a criminal,” they chanted.

    A banner reads “No to defiling the land of revolutionary Tunisia,” in Tunis.
    Photographer: Fethi Belaid/AFP via Getty Images
    The tour of regional allies is probably calculated to show it’s business as usual for Prince Mohammed. He flew to the U.A.E. on Thursday, moving onto Bahrain and is stopping by Egypt for a two-day visit before heading to Tunisia.

    Saudis Let Wallets Do the Talking to Punish Turkey for Khashoggi
    Erdogan’s Big Gamble: Taking on Mideast Powerbroker Saudi Arabia

    Tunisian activists had unsuccessfully tried to have a court bar him from the country, whose revolution inspired the Arab Spring uprisings of 2011. The Journalists Syndicate held a news conference on Monday, saying activists would hold a protest against the prince in downtown Tunis.

    “We will take a stand against this visit using all forms of protest,” syndicate member Sakina Abdel Samad said at a press conference with 11 other civil society groups.

    The banner, hung down the side of a white-painted villa, depicts a man in traditional Gulf robes, his hand resting on a chainsaw, an apparent illusion to the dismemberment of Khashoggi’s body. “No to defiling the land of revolutionary Tunisia,” it reads.






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    Saudi Arabia says the 33-year-old de facto ruler was not aware of any plan to kill Khashoggi, who went into exile last year and had been writing columns for the Washington Post criticizing the prince’s policies. The prosecution has charged 11 people over the murder and is investigating a close aide to Prince Mohammed.

    The prince also plans to attend the Group of 20 summit in Argentina later this month, according to the Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television. President Donald Trump said he’d meet Prince Mohammed at the event. Also present will be Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has pressured Saudi Arabia to punish whoever ordered the killing.

    The controversy has prompted some U.S. lawmakers to demand sanctions, though Trump has said he will not allow it to upend relations, citing the potential impact on oil prices, weapons sales and U.S.-led efforts to curb Iranian influence in the region.

    — With assistance by Samer Al-Atrush

    (Updates with protest in central Tunis
     
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