Kanye West and by extension Black race #ourchoice moment

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Isabella

Isabella

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I don't need to meditate on that. I already know that.

But that does not counter any statements I made.
Lol it does, that's why you felt the need to reply! See you oversimplified a statement in reply to an argument because you thought that somehow gave you an edge in the discussion, whereas manifesto was actually more factual in saying that the civil war started because southern states wanted to preserve the institution of slavery! See history as nuanced as it is agrees with him and not you :p!

Anyway I'm done with this downward spiral, you can have the last word!
 
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  • Indie

    Indie

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    Lol it does, that's why you felt the need to reply! See you oversimplified a statement in reply to an argument because you thought that somehow gave you an edge in the discussion, whereas manifesto was actually more factual in saying that the civil war started because southern states wanted to preserve the institution of slavery! See history as nuanced as it is agrees with him and not you :p!

    Anyway I'm done with this downward spiral, you can have the last word!
    My oversimplification does not deter from my argument. Yours does.

    I could have easily said: "part of the reason the civil war started was that half of the Whites opposed slavery." It would change nothing to the argument.

    However, if you introduced nuance in your argument, you would have no argument left. You would basically be saying what I'm saying.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have real life to attend to, and you have some thinking to do.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

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    Why are you bringing facts to this debate? You leftist commie!!
    Yeah my bad, we need to focus on how nuanced 400 years of slavery was a choice is as a statement (even after Kanye West himself apologized for his tone deaf and incredibly out of touch statement) among an insane 30 minute long rant where apparently human beings live in a simulation, reality is up for debate (he literally said you need to stop focusing on history and make your own reality lol) and something about standing on coffee tables and the non existence of races!
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Do you know who started selling Black slaves to Americans? Other Black Africans.

    Also, not everyone in America had slaves or supported slavery.

    That does not excuse the Whites who took part in that horror. Nor is anyone claiming that Blacks deserved to be enslaved. Simply, history, as well as Kanye's statements, are more nuanced than what soundbite ideologues portray them as.

    Kanye shouldn't have used the word "choose" because it does not appropriately describe what he seems to be saying.



    And just like during the civil war, many Whites fought to end discrimination during the civil rights era.
    Yes, I know what Kanye was trying to say. He meant that black people should not continue to be mentally enslaved to the same old ideas.
    But I believe he chose the wrong analogy to get his point across.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Why are you bringing facts to this debate? You leftist commie!!
    Why don't you attempt to explain how this fact contradicts anything I've said?

    That is, if you and your friends can pull yourselves away from immature mockery and viciousness as a response mechanism to being confronted to new ideas. This behaviour is quite sad.

    Kudos to @manifesto for being able to hold an actual, mature conversation, even when disagreements occur.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Yes, I know what Kanye was trying to say. He meant that black people should not continue to be mentally enslaved to the same old ideas.
    But I believe he chose the wrong analogy to get his point across.
    Exactly.

    But we can all make such mistakes, especially in unprepared speech. That's why I don't dramatize what he said like some in the media are doing to score political points.

    Yalla, I really have to get going. Nice discussing with you, as always. <3
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

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    Why don't you attempt to explain how this fact contradicts anything I've said?

    That is, if you and your friends can pull yourselves away from immature mockery and viciousness as a response mechanism to being confronted to new ideas. This behaviour is quite sad.

    Kudos to @manifesto for being able to hold an actual, mature conversation, even when disagreements occur.
    Ideas ? Sorry, I didn’t notice.
    Ok. Yes, kudos to @manifesto for his patience.
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

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    Yeah my bad, we need to focus on how nuanced 400 years of slavery was a choice is as a statement (even after Kanye West himself apologized for his tone deaf and incredibly out of touch statement) among an insane 30 minute long rant where apparently human beings live in a simulation, reality is up for debate (he literally said you need to stop focusing on history and make your own reality lol) and something about standing on coffee tables and the non existence of races!
    I found it really sad (and surpising) how more engrained racism is in the US compared to France. It is comparable to the level of racism in Lebanon and the Arab countries. (can’t speak to other European countries, I only speak of the countries I live in and I have factual basis of comparison).
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Kudos to @manifesto for being able to hold an actual, mature conversation, even when disagreements occur.
    Bow down to your new role model, fellow Oroomers :smug:
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

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    You do know that government subsidies and all kinds of welfare programmes available for poor people goes mostly to white people, most of which actually vote republicans right? It's like shooting yourself in the foot! You benefit from something specifically aimed to benefit you but then you vote against the people whose policies made this help available to you in the first place! In case my comment wasn't painfully obvious: are poorer white folks in the Bible belt also "choosing to be slaves for their democrat masters" despite voting for republicans and against their own self interest?

    But regardless, that still doesn't explain exactly how black people CHOSE to be enslaved and you spending so many years thinking about that choice!
    It is not what I am saying, majority of Whites are trying to find the way to make their lives better, but great many Blacks seem to argue that because they were slaves everyone owes them and as such they do not try to progress and instead rely on handout.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

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    It is not what I am saying, majority of Whites are trying to find the way to make their lives better, but great many Blacks seem to argue that because they were slaves everyone owes them and as such they do not try to progress and instead rely on handout.
    Oh yes, my bad! What you're saying is even more racist than I thought! Whites on welfare work at getting out but blacks don't? And that is why black people CHOSE slavery and you've been thinking about it for years!
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Ideas ? Sorry, I didn’t notice.
    Just because you don't see something, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

    Ok. Yes, kudos to @manifesto for his patience.
    Don't cheat him out of the credit that he is due. His merit is bigger than mere patience.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    You do know that government subsidies and all kinds of welfare programmes available for poor people goes mostly to white people,
    There are more White people in the U.S. than there are Black people. Out of everyone on welfare, around 40% are White, and around 40% are Black. This means the percentage of the Black population on welfare is higher than the percentage of the White population on welfare.

    These numbers shouldn't be used to disparage Black people. Given the historical and socio-political context, these numbers are unsurprising. However, people should focus on how to improve things for the future, which many are failing to do, including those who claim to care about people on welfare. But that topic is bigger than the scope of this post.

    For now, I'll simply say that your assertion needs to be corrected because it does not take into account the percentage of the overall population each group represents.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

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    There are more White people in the U.S. than there are Black people. Out of everyone on welfare, around 40% are White, and around 40% are Black. This means the percentage of the Black population on welfare is higher than the percentage of the White population on welfare.

    These numbers shouldn't be used to disparage Black people. Given the historical and socio-political context, these numbers are unsurprising. However, people should focus on how to improve things for the future, which many are failing to do, including those who claim to care about people on welfare. But that topic is bigger than the scope of this post.

    For now, I'll simply say that your assertion needs to be corrected because it does not take into account the percentage of the overall population each group represents.
    As you can probably see my post was in reply to someone who claimed that because there are black people on welfare that means they choose to be slaves to democrats (as if anyone chooses to be poor), context matters in this case where I pointed out that there are actually more white people on welfare (goes without saying since there are more white people in the United States in general) than there are black and whether or not these people were also choosing slavery?

    See this post was in reply to someone very specific to show him why his argument actually had no merit, overall percentages don't really matter in this case!

    Yes the ratio of poor black people trumps that of white, I think more specifically for children it was 10% white children were quite poor Vs 30% black... however welfare programmes more specifically were brought up to indicate that somehow black people are just relying on them instead of looking for better opportunities whereas white people do so, as evidenced by that person's subsequent reply!

    Overall percentages don't matter to my argument, but they're not 40-40:

    Just over 40 percent of SNAP recipients are white. Another 25.7 percent are black, 10.3 percent are Hispanic, 2.1 percent are Asian and 1.2 percent are Native American, according to a 2015 Department of Agriculture report.

    Trump told not everyone on welfare is black: “Really? Then what are they?” he responded: Report
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    As you can probably see my post was in reply to someone who claimed that because there are black people on welfare that means they choose to be slaves to democrats (as if anyone chooses to be poor), context matters in this case where I pointed out that there are actually more white people on welfare (goes without saying since there are more white people in the United States in general) than there are black and whether or not these people were also choosing slavery?

    See this post was in reply to someone very specific to show him why his argument actually had no merit, overall percentages don't really matter in this case!

    Yes the ratio of poor black people trumps that of white, I think more specifically for children it was 10% white children were quite poor Vs 30% black... however welfare programmes more specifically were brought up to indicate that somehow black people are just relying on them instead of looking for better opportunities whereas white people do so, as evidenced by that person's subsequent reply!

    Overall percentages don't matter to my argument, but they're not 40-40:

    Just over 40 percent of SNAP recipients are white. Another 25.7 percent are black, 10.3 percent are Hispanic, 2.1 percent are Asian and 1.2 percent are Native American, according to a 2015 Department of Agriculture report.
    Well, regardless, I wanted to make the clarification, in case someone read your statement and took it at face value.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

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    Well, regardless, I wanted to make the clarification, in case someone read your statement and took it at face value.
    Good for you except my statement is still factual :)
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

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    Factual, but out of context. Which means it can lead to wrong conclusions.
    Please go read the argument I made in reply to the argument made and then take a moment to reflect on context lol! I was told black people were choosing slavery because of welfare, I replied well there are more whites on welfare and they vote republicans, are they also choosing slavery?

    It's not my problem you're the one who ignored the context of my post :)
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Please go read the argument I made in reply to the argument made and then take a moment to reflect on context lol! I was told black people were choosing slavery because of welfare, I replied well there are more whites on welfare and they vote republicans, are they also choosing slavery?

    It's not my problem you're the one who ignored the context of my post :)
    I'm not participating in the argument between you and PINI. I'm simply providing additional information to a statement you made, so that people unfamiliar with the topic can have all the facts.
     
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