Lebanese immigration and diaspora : the negative side.

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
i don't think that such specialisation lacked among european graduates .. but u would rather help ur own people with ur master degree instead of promoting immigration for other lebanese..
since u have no electricity , let ur govern construct a nuclear proliferation and employ ur friends instead they go and seek jobs aways from their own parents ..
there is something wrong with ur mindset ..
in europe we pay taxes , and those taxes we pay pèart goes to the grand parents as a PENSION SALARY ,because they worked in their youg and contributed .. thats how normal countries and normal communities work ..
tell me , what is the pension salary of your gran parents ?

U clearly dont know the state of european countries' lack of scientific majors specialization..

Do you know how many Italian engineers i've worked/stufied with since i came to europe who left because they think italy cant provide for them?

Do ur research dude..
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
Unfortunately you are also a selfish Lebanese immigrant who should go back home and build a nuclear power plant in his country!
if u be nice to Putin , he would sell u a nuclear plant with big discount .. it will resolve all ur electricity problem , and will help ur friends in NASA and nuclear engineers to find a job. he even selling this to saudis..its sales time there .,..get ur chance
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
U clearly dont know the state of european countries' lack of scientific majors specialization..

Do you know how many Italian engineers i've worked/stufied with since i came to europe who left because they think italy cant provide for them?

Do ur research dude..
do u how many italian got Nobel prize .. and how many lebanese got it ?
do ur research dude
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
U clearly dont know the state of european countries' lack of scientific majors specialization..

Do you know how many Italian engineers i've worked/stufied with since i came to europe who left because they think italy cant provide for them?

Do ur research dude..
yes true , lot of italian graduate are immigrating from italy because in italy jobs are taken by foreigners at lower salaries..
that was a main issue during the last election , and this is not seen positively here , all people want that italian graduate stay in italy and contribute to its economy ....
unlike the case of urs .. since it seems the politics of ur govern is properly to invest on immigration as a source of economic income :D with all the negative consequences that it bring to lebanese inside lebanon and abroad ..
the taxes that we pay to keep the university pubblic , is because the graduate can serve their country and not other 's country .. thats our logic here ..
 
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gramsci

Legendary Member
here an example , of lebanese immigrants following her self interest.. hence the palestinian refugees issue is the main concern of lebanese since 1948...how did she served her country .. ?

Amal Clooney: A Figure of Hope for Everyone but the Palestinians

Amal Alamuddin refuses UN offer to investigate possible war crimes in Gaza


If you’re a human rights lawyer, you can’t play both sides of the street. But she defended the king of Bahrain against charges of monstrous human rights crimes against activists in the Bahraini uprising of 2011, including using excessive force, jailing thousands, torturing many to death, excessive use of tear gas & pellet guns. Her defense was to clean up his image internationally when he’s a lowbrow murderous thug. For those who witnessed that glorious uprising, it is absolutely unspeakable she would defend the guy.

After Israel’s 2014 carpet bombing of Gaza, she was asked to be on a three-person UN commission investigating Israeli war crimes but declined citing schedule conflicts. It would be damn uncomfortable to cite Israel for war crimes & human rights violations if you support Hillary Clinton whose groveling speech to AIPAC vilifying Palestinians will go down in infamy. What do you bet that political relationship was more a consideration than her schedule?

Amal Clooney: human rights lawyer, my ass! | Mary Scully Reports
 
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Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Slightly off-topic but this reminded me of a conversation I had with an Egyptian friend of mine.

According to this friend, only lousy Egyptian doctors go to the Gulf. Good ones stay in Egypt.

Westerners working in the Gulf are often viewed as "not good enough to find a job in their home countries".

I wonder if this how people view Lebanese expats, too.

Who do you think is more qualified? The Lebanese student who managed to find a decent job in Lebanon or the one who had to immigrate in order to find a job?

It's the other way around for Lebanese.

People don't stay in Lebanon because they are better than those who leave. They stay in Lebanon either because they are rich enough to afford a life there, or because they are too poor to go anywhere.

Some exceptions apply.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Indie, I think @Isabella was indirectly referring to you :p

Let the cat fight begin.

I already moved to Lebanon once. I couldn't stay for multiple reasons, but I will be going back eventually. And I already have projects in mind to help the country. I'm not one of those people who are satisfied as long as they have material comfort and cheap distractions. A certain level of material well-being is good, but beyond that life has to be meaningful.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Indie u talked abt europe and how it rebuilt aftr the wars.
Completly uncomparable situation. U are talking marshall plan funding level in a usa dominated post war europe.
I cant even imagine where the comparison would start...

If Europeans didn't care about their countries, funding would not have been enough. How much debt is Lebanon in? What kind of country would Lebanon be if all that money wasn't wasted? You can't all blame it on Hariri, you know. He was working with many others. And people are still voting for them.

And you as an immigrant urself should know better.

As an immigrant, I have met more than my share of the kind of Lebanese @gramsci is talking about; and, let me tell you...they are nasty thugs.

That being said, there are also many who are normal citizens who work and go home to their family every day.

The main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that if Lebanese want a better Lebanon, they have to build it with their own blood, sweat, and tears. If everyone with a diploma abandons ship to build selfish prosperty in others' countries, then they lose the right to complain about the situation in Lebanon.

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I forgot to mention, you can't compare those who left during the war to those who are leaving now.

During the war, almost anyone could leave and get refugee status. Those who are leaving these days must have a lot of money, to either study abroad and get a student visa, or to open a business abroad.

Many people in the West don't have that kind of money. So how privileged are the people in Lebanon who can afford such things? They have enough to live comfortably in Lebanon. They're not going abroad because they're desperate but because they want even more than what they already have.
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I forgot to mention, you can't compare those who left during the war to those who are leaving now.

During the war, almost anyone could leave and get refugee status. Those who are leaving these days must have a lot of money, to either study abroad and get a student visa, or to open a business abroad.

Many people in the West don't have that kind of money. So how privileged are the people in Lebanon who can afford such things? They have enough to live comfortably in Lebanon. They're not going abroad because they're desperate but because they want even more than what they already have.


That's true. It's practically impossible for a Lebanese to live and work in Europe unless you pursue an MA degree or invest in real estate. The USA is even more difficult.
Even Gulf countries are no longer offering work visas to the Lebanese.

Must be tough for students who will be graduating this year. Economic crisis + lack of opportunities abroad.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
I forgot to mention, you can't compare those who left during the war to those who are leaving now.

During the war, almost anyone could leave and get refugee status. Those who are leaving these days must have a lot of money, to either study abroad and get a student visa, or to open a business abroad.

Many people in the West don't have that kind of money. So how privileged are the people in Lebanon who can afford such things? They have enough to live comfortably in Lebanon. They're not going abroad because they're desperate but because they want even more than what they already have.

The comparison stands in that everyone who has left has a reason to do so! To get a student visa you don't need a lot of money, you also don't need a lot of money to study abroad especially considering there are scholarship programs at least where France is concerned that are fairly easy to qualify for since I did and that is exactly how I funded my education in this country!

You also seem to be singling me out with the opening a business thing, while it is true that my husband and I had a business together it is also true that we were 100k euros in debt to open that business and once sold we just basically closed our debt with a little extra left... Point is you cannnot make an assumption about the kind of money people have based solely on the fact they have left their country!

People who leave Lebanon don't do so because they can afford a nice life for themselves in their country! They leave Lebanon because they have to! You can maybe afford to judge other Lebanese immigrants because you say you have some projects in mind to help the country, however what makes you so sure that other Lebanese people are not tied to their host countries and are just chasing "material comfort and cheap distractions"! You're single you don't have a family whose future you need to worry about... Unlike others you can afford the luxury of being judgemental and making assumptions, and uprooting your life to move back to your country since you only have yourself to worry about! The same applies to Gramsci!

It's very easy to judge others what's hard is attempting to be even somewhat objective when a topic like this is concerned! The point of this thread was never about the Lebanese wanting a better Lebanon as you put it in your previous post... We do but that's not the point! The point of this thread was and it still is that Lebanese immigrants should be lumped together with thugs in Germany and saying that they hurt their host countries and home country and that they all need to go back! The point is painting Lebanese immigrants with a very negative light because out of 12 million some thugs seem to wreck havoc here and there... Thugs that are most likely second or third generation immigrants ungrateful for the choices their parents made in order to provide a better life for them!
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
That's true. It's practically impossible for a Lebanese to live and work in Europe unless you pursue an MA degree or invest in real estate. The USA is even more difficult.
Even Gulf countries are no longer offering work visas to the Lebanese.

Must be tough for students who will be graduating this year. Economic crisis + lack of opportunities abroad.

It's really not that hard! Loads of scholarships to qualify for, some even run by hariri that pay enough for students to afford a decent life since in most cases university is free! If you choose a paying university like polytechnique for example you can also qualify for a scholarship that takes care of your tuition with good grades! Two of my friends have studied there for free! Also it's incredibly easy to get a part time job as a student it's actually highly encouraged in Paris that's what I did in later years! I worked lots of odd jobs (interim), I even shucked oysters during Christmas holidays once, to be able to make a decent living and afford my "diploma collection" as you put it lol!
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
If Europeans didn't care about their countries, funding would not have been enough. How much debt is Lebanon in? What kind of country would Lebanon be if all that money wasn't wasted? You can't all blame it on Hariri, you know. He was working with many others. And people are still voting for them.

Nope the comparison still doesnt stand. Western europe was not under occupation AFAIK they haf access to literslly unlimited capital and were still the leading nations technologically wise. So lots of room for economic expansion, innovation, u name it.

The situation of 1990 lebanon was what? Political witchhunnt, economic collapse, a crumbling national currency, non existing infrastructure, israeli occupation in the south and syrian occupation elsewhere, armed militias and militia style mentality governing peoples ethics, corruption ruled the land. And you want the lebanese to be like the europeans and rebuild their country from scratch with no access to capital and the posdibilty to see most of the money then could gather go to the pockets of syrians and their local lackeys. Which it did.

You are comparing a broken occupied country to western europe. I hope u realize that.
We're not even talking apples to oranges here..

If you really want to compare try kosovo, see how that gem of a country with massive EU and US aid and investement is collapsing..

So yea are you kidding me :)

As an immigrant, I have met more than my share of the kind of Lebanese @gramsci is talking about; and, let me tell you...they are nasty thugs.

Again i dont care, if germany is accepting thise kind if prople, facilitating their arrival, giving them access to credit to start their shady businesses, and yes they do, then it is on them. Am not gonna stand here take the heat for them. Germany ir canada or any other western country facing severe demographic problems are using quick fix patches to remedy their problems: importing high breeding populace from all over the world witjout caring abt the short and medduim term effects. They sre banking on the 3rd/4th generation kids yo be fully integrated into their system and germanized. But as we can see from the turkish community in germany for example its not working.

So again not my problem if they keep thugs on their territory.

That being said, there are also many who are normal citizens who work and go home to their family every day.

The main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that if Lebanese want a better Lebanon, they have to build it with their own blood, sweat, and tears. If everyone with a diploma abandons ship to build selfish prosperty in others' countries, then they lose the right to complain about the situation in Lebanon.

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”
How can you even talk abt selfish prosperity? Do you know that lebanon never crumbled because of all the money the expats send back?
No every person has the right to persue their ambitions, unless u want a communist style placement agency to tell every graduate wat to do for the next 40 years of their lives..

No i dont lose the right to complain, i am actively participating in my country's political scene, i am sending back money to my country and i wish i could go back and start a business but i dont uave the infrastructure and am not willing to gamble my future on a whim.

Not even JFK can get you out of this one :)
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
Rou2o ya 3alam. Every person has a different reason as to why he left the country. One left due to employment opportunities, one left due to being married to a foreigner, one left due to the war, one left due ... ...
There are many reason as to why. Some lebanese were actually better off in lebanon than their host country but were forced to leave due to persecution or one wanted to kill them i.e syrian, islamic forces etc. This 12 million outside bullshit is crap. There are no more than 2-3 million lebanese outside. L be2e mch lebanese. They dont know nothing about leb, dont speak arabic, dont even know where lebanon is.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The comparison stands in that everyone who has left has a reason to do so! To get a student visa you don't need a lot of money, you also don't need a lot of money to study abroad especially considering there are scholarship programs at least where France is concerned that are fairly easy to qualify for since I did and that is exactly how I funded my education in this country!

You also seem to be singling me out with the opening a business thing, while it is true that my husband and I had a business together it is also true that we were 100k euros in debt to open that business and once sold we just basically closed our debt with a little extra left... Point is you cannnot make an assumption about the kind of money people have based solely on the fact they have left their country!

People who leave Lebanon don't do so because they can afford a nice life for themselves in their country! They leave Lebanon because they have to! You can maybe afford to judge other Lebanese immigrants because you say you have some projects in mind to help the country, however what makes you so sure that other Lebanese people are not tied to their host countries and are just chasing "material comfort and cheap distractions"! You're single you don't have a family whose future you need to worry about... Unlike others you can afford the luxury of being judgemental and making assumptions, and uprooting your life to move back to your country since you only have yourself to worry about! The same applies to Gramsci!

It's very easy to judge others what's hard is attempting to be even somewhat objective when a topic like this is concerned! The point of this thread was never about the Lebanese wanting a better Lebanon as you put it in your previous post... We do but that's not the point! The point of this thread was and it still is that Lebanese immigrants should be lumped together with thugs in Germany and saying that they hurt their host countries and home country and that they all need to go back! The point is painting Lebanese immigrants with a very negative light because out of 12 million some thugs seem to wreck havoc here and there... Thugs that are most likely second or third generation immigrants ungrateful for the choices their parents made in order to provide a better life for them!

Get over yourself. I am not targetting anyone. I am speaking in general, based on my observations.

So, for the millionth time, take your nasty attitude and look for someone else to get a reaction out of. I'm not interested.
 
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