Lebanese is a language (derived from syriac) not a dialect

Ice Tea

Ice Tea

Active Member
Yes Maronites are not Arabs but there are many Maronites who do not mind associating themselves with being Arabs.
But yes I agree that the Maronites should be free to associate themselves with an Assyrian identity as long they don't deny others identities which are also indigenous to this region! Something many of them deny others today and just love to put themselves above others in their nativeness to this region which is in reality far from the truth.

But again most Arabs are Arabized even the Arabs of the Arabian peninsula by vast majority where Arabized from Yemen.
And even in the Islamic traditions the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is from the Adnani tribe which is descendant from Ismael peace be upon him! meaning according to our Muslim traditions Muhammad descendants were Arabized as well!
Just shows how destructive Muslim invasion was to the whole MENA region. It used to be an ethnic and religious diverse region and very advanced, and it became this monolithic Muslim-Arab [].
 
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  • NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Legendary Member
    Not only Maronites, but all Christians. A Maronite is not genetically any different from a Melkite or an Orthodox. Only difference is Maronites preserved their language longer so they were able to preserve their non-Arabic identity.
    Not all christians....there are many Arab christian tribes that migrated from the Arabic peninsula after Islam like the Ghassasina....they are mostly orthodox
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    Just shows how destructive Muslim invasion was to the whole MENA region. It used to be an ethnic and religious diverse region and very advanced, and it became this monolithic Muslim-Arab shithole, all thanks to the pedo.
    It was never a monolithic "Muslim-Arab" shithole until recently in the 20th century when the West wrecked havoc on the area. In fact the Middle East has always been more religiously tolerant and diverse than the "Christian West".

    It also became "very advanced" after the Muslim conquest. It was a Greek/Byzantine shithole before that.

    You really need to brush up on your history before making a fool of yourself.
     
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    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    It was never a monolithic "Muslim-Arab" shithole until recently when the West wrecked havoc on the area. In fact the Middle East has always been more religiously tolerant and diverse than the "Christian West".

    It also became "very advanced" after the Muslim conquest. It was a Greek/Byzantine shithole before that.

    You really need to brush up on your history before making a fool of yourself.
    Did the West force Arabization and Islamization of of the native populations of Levant, Mesopotamia and North Africa? Did the West destroy ancient cities like Palmyra just because they don't fit their Islamic narrative? Did the West force the Arab-Muslims to treat the native Christian population like third class citizens, if not killing them, forcing them to pay absurd taxes? No, that's were all the Arab-Muslims. They destroyed all the civilizations that existed in the region prior to their barbaric invasion. Way before the West 'havoced' the area.

    And btw, the Levant was the second richest region of the Roman/Byzantine Empire, only after Greece itself. The region was only badly affected during the Roman-Persian wars, which itself allowed the Arabs to conquest it. Otherwise I don't think you're being ludicrous trying to compare the superior Greek culture to the backwards Arab-Bedouin 'culture', or are you?
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Not all christians....there are many Arab christian tribes that migrated from the Arabic peninsula after Islam like the Ghassasina....they are mostly orthodox
    No, that Ghassanid narrative was created only to please the Arab-Muslim masters. No one knew about these so called Ghassanids prior to pan-Arabism, which Orthodox Christians only adopted thinking it would save them from Arab-Muslim persecution.

    I think a few 'Arabs' migrated to the region BEFORE Islam, but they completely assimilated into the Roman/Byzantine culture. Nonetheless, all Christians from all sects have basically none Arab DNA input, and this is a genetic fact.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    Did the West force Arabization and Islamization of of the native populations of Levant, Mesopotamia and North Africa? Did the West destroy ancient cities like Palmyra just because they don't fit their Islamic narrative? Did the West force the Arab-Muslims to treat the native Christian population like third class citizens, if not killing them, forcing them to pay absurd taxes? No, that's were all the Arab-Muslim. They destroyed all the civilizations that existed in the region prior to their barbaric invasions. Way before the West 'havoced' the area.

    And btw, the Levant was the second richest region of the Roman/Byzantine Empire, only after Greece itself. The region was only badly affected during the Roman-Persian wars, which itself allowed the Arabs to conquest it. Otherwise I don't think you're being ludicrous trying to compare the superior Greek culture to the backwards Arab-Bedouin 'culture', or are you?
    This is probably is not the right thread, but you're clearly historically illiterate.

    The West divided the "MENA" regions into fake entities that fit their own interests (i.e Syckes-Picot), supported fanatics and dictators (KSA, Shah and others) and deposed democrats whenever it suited them (Iran), waged wars for oil (Iraq) and paving the way for ISIS, and sponsored a colonial entity that to this day is responsible for millions of refugees and is plotting for more.

    No one "forced" the Arabization and Islamization of anything. The Middle East was always very diverse. At the start of the 20th century, >20% of the Levant was Christian and it had been for centuries under Muslim rule.

    The Islamic conquest initiated one of the greatest Golden Ages in the history of civlization, not seen since classical times. Yes, the Byzantine empire was at the time a regressive shithole. After the Arab conquest, Damascus and then Baghdad became major centers of civilization,

    These are all facts. They don't fit your petty sectarian narrative, which is why you need to READ.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    This is probably is not the right thread, but you're clearly historically illiterate.

    The West divided the "MENA" regions into fake entities that fit their own interests (i.e Syckes-Picot), supported fanatics and dictators (KSA, Shah and others) and deposed democrats whenever it suited them (Iran), waged wars for oil (Iraq) and paving the way for ISIS, and sponsored a colonial entity that to this day is responsible for millions of refugees and is plotting for more.

    No one "forced" the Arabization and Islamization of anything. The Middle East was always very diverse. At the start of the 20th century, >20% of the Levant was Christian and it had been for centuries under Muslim rule.

    The Islamic conquest initiated one of the greatest Golden Ages in the history of civlization, not seen since classical times. Yes, the Byzantine empire was at the time a regressive shithole. After the Arab conquest, Damascus and then Baghdad became major centers of civilization,

    These are all facts. They don't fit your petty sectarian narrative, which is why you need to READ.
    Way before the West interfere in the region, the Christians were already trying to escape centuries of Muslim, Arab and Ottoman persecution. That's why they left the first chance they got. Why do you think more than 90% of 'Arab' immigrants at that time were Christians?

    Of course the Muslims allowed some Christians to live, but that was not because of 'generosity', all the extremely high taxes they were forced to pay were very lucrative to them.

    And finally, the West didn't 'pave the way' for ISIS. That's solely on Muslims, they were just repeating what Mohammy and his army did. What shocked the world was the fact that the majority of Muslims in the region supported them.
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    I posted something similar in the “We are not Arabs” thread a while ago. Syriac has a very heavy hand in the Lebanese language be it the vocabulary or more importantly the grammar. It is something i became even more aware of when trying to teach it to my kids. The differences exist and are very obvious, unless you are @Jorje who can easily understand Yemeni Moroccan and Djiboutian.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Orange Room Supporter
    I posted something similar in the “We are not Arabs” thread a while ago. Syriac has a very heavy hand in the Lebanese language be it the vocabulary or more importantly the grammar. It is something i became even more aware of when trying to teach it to my kids. The differences exist and are very obvious, unless you are @Jorje who can easily understand Yemeni Moroccan and Djiboutian.
    Every Arabic dialect differs from modern standard Arabic (Fus7a). Even the Saudi dialect is not similar to fus7a.

    Does that make Palestinian, Syrian, and Egyptian languages on their own?
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    The Maronites are the Arabs. Syriac is the mother of Arabic and the Maronites is s sect practiced by a group that emerged from the Ghassassina Musta'raba Arabs. Ghassassina like Amila they originated from Yemen.

    Maronite Nationalism is just like Zionism and Arabism. They are three ideologies that only became documented in history during the late nineteenth century. They are historical constructions that are founded on fabrications of the history of the Levant, Iraq and Yemen so that they could claim a nation and a state that has a history. Their history of identity is based on fabrications of histories of the region.

    This woman in the video does not even know that Arabic evolved from Syriac and by saying that she spoke Syriac she I merely saying that they are Arab.
    Lol according to you Maronites are Arabs, but your precious Metwalis or whatever are pure ancient Jews. That doesn't even make sense. The fact is Maronites (as well as other Christians) are the only people representative of Levant before Arab invasion. I'm not denying some of your Metwalis might be of Jewish origins, but the vast majority of Shias are simply Arabian transplants, while the Sunnis on the coast are a mix of Arabian and Turkish.

    And no, Arab did not evolve from Syriac. Syriac/Aramaic is a Northwest Semitic language closely related to Hebrew, Arabic is a South/Central Semitic language that originated in the deep Arabian desert and is more closely related to the ancient South Semitic languages of Yemen and Ethiopia.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Lol according to you Maronites are Arabs, but your precious Metwalis or whatever are pure ancient Jews. That doesn't even make sense. The fact is Maronites (as well as other Christians) are the only people representative of Levant before Arab invasion. I'm not denying some of your Metwalis might be of Jewish origins, but the vast majority of Shias are simply Arabian transplants, while the Sunnis on the coast are a mix of Arabian and Turkish.

    And no, Arab did not evolve from Syriac. Syriac/Aramaic is a Northwest Semitic language closely related to Hebrew, Arabic is a South/Central Semitic language that originated in the deep Arabian desert and is more closely related to the ancient South Semitic languages of Yemen and Ethiopian.
    If that's true, why do Lebanese Shiites tend to have a higher prevalence of colored eyes and fair skin than Maronites?
    The majority of Maronites are very dark.
    Many Maronite families can trace their roots back to Yemeni tribes.
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    Every Arabic dialect differs from modern standard Arabic (Fus7a). Even the Saudi dialect is not similar to fus7a.

    Does that make Palestinian, Syrian, and Egyptian languages on their own?
    Not sure what distance would make it more a language and less of a dialect, you’d need a linguist for that. But it’s not exactly a small difference as some portray it especially when it’s both grammar and vocabulary.
    Mind you it’s not a unique case, the amazigh language mixed with too in North Africa, Coptic in Egypt and so on and so forth which makes the divergence even more pronounced.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I couldn't find a clip in Western neo-Aramaic (the one spoken in Maaloula). But this Suroyo dialect was spoken in Tur Abdin area in Turkey by Syriacs before the genocide. It does sound like Hebrew, which makes me think Western Neo-Aramaic is probably even more Hebrew-like.

    [Video]
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    If that's true, why do Lebanese Shiites tend to have a higher prevalence of colored eyes and fair skin than Maronites?
    The majority of Maronites are very dark.
    Many Maronite families can trace their roots back to Yemeni tribes.

    Imo Muslims are more 'extreme' in appearance, some look very European, others very Arabian and some even mixed-race. Probably because of the Muslim slave trade, which included both Europeans and Africans. Christians are more homogenous 'Mediterranean' looking.
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

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    Do you guys hear yourselves? So a person’s religion is now akin to their descendance? Te3tir! “Maronites are darker” or “Shiites have more prevalence of coloured eyes”? Wtf!!!
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Do you guys hear yourselves? So a person’s religion is now akin to their descendance? Te3tir! “Maronites are darker” or “Shiites have more prevalence of coloured eyes”? Wtf!!!
    and you wonder why we can't build a country?
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Do you guys hear yourselves? So a person’s religion is now akin to their descendance? Te3tir! “Maronites are darker” or “Shiites have more prevalence of coloured eyes”? Wtf!!!
    He's partially right tho. Christians formed tight-knit communities since the Arab invasion and thus remained genetically more homogenous, being unaffected by events like the Arabian migrations, slave trade, mixing with other Muslims from different parts of the Muslim world etc. There are even generic studies that prove the Lebanese Christians and Muslims differ genetically and are not the same people.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
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    the god emperor blesses us all with a new successful purge! Any new off topic posts will be directly cleansed!!

     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I couldn't find a clip in Western neo-Aramaic (the one spoken in Maaloula). But this Suroyo dialect was spoken in Tur Abdin area in Turkey by Syriacs before the genocide. It does sound like Hebrew, which makes me think Western Neo-Aramaic is probably even more Hebrew-like.

    [Video]

    On topic, can you guys understand anything here?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Do you guys hear yourselves? So a person’s religion is now akin to their descendance?
    Why not? The Druze, for instance, are more homogeneous than everyone else due to lack of intermarriage.
    That makes it easier to trace their ancestry.
     
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