Lebanon’s Economic crisis - Reasons And Way outs

[Venomous Hummingbird II]

you didn't answer my question
HE INVITED THEM SEVERAL TIMES... why didn't they go?
you want him to be at the service of the people, and don't want those specialists to talk to him. And yet he wants you to save them.
I am sorry, but that logic is sinking
You are stuck with the hate of one person, rather than trying to find a solution.

Mish sa7i7, Hezb 7 and others went and met with him several times.

 

[Venomous Hummingbird II]

 

[Patriot]

I salute Ghassan for his dedication for the last few years.
His videos played a very positive role educating the masses.

 

[NAFAR]

I salute Ghassan for his dedication for the last few years.
His videos played a very positive role educating the masses.

More of his kind are needed to steer the rev. and take it out from the abyss.
The like of Ka3i/Zayn/Paula/ Sab3a/Riffi boys/ financed NGOs/ LF/Kateib/PSPers/7ariri thugs....etc must be bashed and exiled from the rev. ranks.
The rev. must boycott MTV and Marcel Ghanem who are polishing Salemy/Hariri/LF... and the rest of 14 adar orta and attacking only FPM and HA.

 

[SeaAb]

The thread is about the ECONOMIC crisis and ways to get out of it.
Stick to the topic guys or else we'll have to merge it with the 'Revolution' thread.

 

[Patriot]

The thread is about the ECONOMIC crisis and ways to get out of it.
Stick to the topic guys or else we'll have to merge it with the 'Revolution' thread.

But we're discussing way outs
Demanding the President to resign is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

The revolution thread tracks the protests and movements and news.

 

[loubnaniTO]

Just so we don't get stuck with the same arguments about if the revolution should have representatived.

A couple of economical activitists started talking about the crisis and what is exactly happening and ways out, like Jad Chaaban and Dan Azzi and Mohammad zbeeb.
They were only tweeting and directly they started making videos on them and conspirscy theories about their plan to become ministers and this is why they're saying this.

So if people are tweeting and this is their feedback, what will happen if they meet the president.

In the interview with the president when PMA asked why don't they name someone, Nicolas Nassif said "inno bitrakboulo malaf" and he was right.

I do not accept that excuse. We easily jump and say "kelloun ya3ne kelloun" and accuse every politician in history that they are THIEVES and corrupt, but then if someone starts a conspiracy theory about an "alternative", byekhoud 3a khaterna and we stop the initiative???
OF COURSE they will come up with files and conspiracy theories about ANY alternative... the politicians and people in power now will do ANYTHING to hang on to their powers and positions, and will come up with stories to destroy ANYONE who will threaten them... just look at what's happening with the government formation, it's just a power play!
YRAKKBOULOUN MALAF...all what they have to do is a press conference and deny it! and keep working.
Terkib el malaffet will happen now, and tomorrow, and right before any new elections.. so probably better they happen now so that these people can clear their names early... before any new elections.

These are crucial times... sacrifice is the least thing people do... there is no time for being oversensitive.

i am going to pull a @Resign and troll by saying GET ORGANIZED in every post...

But still the problem is not here, the problem is that the people in the revolution are unified (kind of) on the demands but not on the solutions, this is why no one can represent them before having a legitimate way to show their shares.
what i mean if now communists claim they represent the revolution no one will accept it or of beirut madinati or....

This is why they're focusing on headlines because it's easier to agree on these.

Is there a better way? i don't know in history how revolutions have succeded to have a reference

even that is not true.
The revolution today is split up on demands and solutions... simply because it was allowed to be infiltrated by the same political parties it was rebelling against. What are the unified demands? Reform and fighting corruption and change? when Hariri was isolated, the street blew up!
i think the CORE of the revolution, the genuine core yes is unified... wanting REAL change and reform... and that's the part i am supporting and willing to throw all i can behind them, and hoping they will prevail. And thats the CORE i am hoping could get organized, and rally all of those (like me) who want real change, and who are willing to shed their traditional affiliations., and who are thirsty for an alternative.

 

[SeaAb]

But we're discussing way outs
Demanding the President to resign is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

The revolution thread tracks the protests and movements and news.

There is another thread calling for the resignation of the President. We don't need multiple threads discussing the same topic. I'll monitor the thread for a while and assess then whether it should be merged with that thread or not.

 

[Manifesto]

Aoun is the biggest failure. Not only should

More of his kind are needed to steer the rev. and take it out from the abyss.
The like of Ka3i/Zayn/Paula/ Sab3a/Riffi boys/ financed NGOs/ LF/Kateib/PSPers/7ariri thugs....etc must be bashed and exiled from the rev. ranks.
The rev. must boycott MTV and Marcel Ghanem who are polishing Salemy/Hariri/LF... and the rest of 14 adar orta and attacking only FPM and HA.

Marcel Ghanem is a vile person. I saw his interview with Salameh the crook. He was unusually calm and patient towards him. Had his guest been an FPMer he would have unleashed hell on them. Not that the latter don't deserve it.

 

[Patriot]

There is another thread calling for the resignation of the President. We don't need multiple threads discussing the same topic. I'll monitor the thread for a while and assess then whether it should be merged with that thread or not.

This is false
By doing so you’re killing the thread
It is about way outs i suggest new President who can unite the people towards a common goal

you can propose something different.

this is not about President resignstion
This is only my opinion that triggered lots of Aounists who decided to defend the president rather than proposing solutions.

 

[loubnaniTO]

But we're discussing way outs
Demanding the President to resign is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

The revolution thread tracks the protests and movements and news.

That's not true... you started this thread with an interesting paper proposing economic steps that could potentially take us out of this crisis... you turned it into a trolling thread about the president resigning. Feel free to campaign for that, i don't mind.. but to turn this whole thread into this specific demand does not serve the purpose of the thread YOU started.

 

[Patriot]

That's not true... you started this thread with an interesting paper proposing economic steps that could potentially take us out of this crisis... you turned it into a trolling thread about the president resigning. Feel free to campaign for that, i don't mind.. but to turn this whole thread into this specific demand does not serve the purpose of the thread YOU started.

i swear to god i am not trolling
Why each time i state my opinion that the President is not doing his job and should resign i get labelled as a troll

i was never as serious as i was here

you have no right to label me as a troll
You are shutting me down and suppressing my opinion and mocking it.

 

[loubnaniTO]

i swear to god i am not trolling
Why each time i state my opinion that the President is not doing his job and should resign i get labelled as a troll

i was never as serious as i was here

you have no right to label me as a troll
You are shutting me down and suppressing my opinion and mocking it.

read my post AGAIN. I said you are free to express your opinion and call for his resignation, but when the whole thread turns into the same message, it becomes "trolling"... and i am not saying this to delete your thread or stop you from discussing it, but if this becomes a question about his resignation, then as @SeaAb said, there is another thread for that, and there it becomes legit to discuss it. We dont need two threads to discuss one issue.

 

[Patriot]

read my post AGAIN. I said you are free to express your opinion and call for his resignation, but when the whole thread turns into the same message, it becomes "trolling"... and i am not saying this to delete your thread or stop you from discussing it, but if this becomes a question about his resignation, then as @SeaAb said, there is another thread for that, and there it becomes legit to discuss it. We dont need two threads to discuss one issue.

I stated my opinion
We had a nice debate me and you and then trolling started by Danny Z

go reread the thread
It is not my fault nor the thread’s fault

 

[Patriot]

To FPMers propose realistic solutions rather than throwing blames and insults or trolling so we have a proper discussion

 

[Manifesto]

I stated my opinion
We had a nice debate me and you and then trolling started by Danny Z

go reread the thread
It is not my fault nor the thread’s fault

Don't mind NiTo. He hasn't had his morning coffee yet.
Your opinion of Michel Aoun is echoed by half if not 2/3 of the Lebanese.

Aoun is failure. No one trusts his ability to lead the country out of the crisis.
When the uprising started, he was more interested in flexing his muscles and boasting his popularity among his FPM base.
I honestly think he should be put on trial for allowing things to reach this point.
He was a major enabler of corruption.

 

[loubnaniTO]

Don't mind NiTo. He hasn't had his morning coffee yet..

it so happens that i already had my first coffee... so my opinion is based on my sober mind, but thank you.

Your opinion of Michel Aoun is echoed by half if not 2/3 of the Lebanese

Aoun is failure. No one trusts his ability to lead the country out of the crisis.
When the uprising started, he was more interested in flexing his muscles and boasting his popularity among his FPM base.
I honestly think he should be put on trial for allowing things to reach this point.
He was a major enabler of corruption.

once again, your fixations are clouding your judgments.
as i said many times before (but you and resign refuse to see it), i don't care if aoun stays or goes.. i care more about the alternatives.
My concern is that there is so much "fixation" on aoun and FPM, that some of you kids are forgetting the long CORRUPTION history of berri, jumblatt, harirism, LF, Kataeb, etc... instead of bringing down the whole temple that they;re all pillars in, you are fixated on Bassil and Aoun.
FPM and aoun failed in bringing about change and reform... taking them out alone though will not bring a solution. You guys started with kelloun ya3ne kelloun, and now are fixated on 2 people only! and yes i have a problem with that.. i have a concern that the revolution will fail because of your biases. You guys criticize FPMers for being blind followers, and you forget that you are blind and haters of ONE party, at the expense of the others (this is not necessarily addressed to you @AtheistForJesus ... it's for everyone who is solely fixated on FPM/Aoun/Bassil while forgetting the others).

 

[Elvis left the building]

a very interesting article! the best part of it is the first sentence:
"The economic crisis is, at its core, a governance crisis emanating from a dysfunctional sectarian system that hindered rational policymaking and permitted a culture of corruption and waste. "

i have a feeling that all the proposals and suggestions that MIGHT work, will be hindered by the same system that got us here. Who trusts that the sharks who got us here will step back and allow such reform to happen... and why would they do it. Unless they are FORCED out... not only by the protesters in the street, but also by their supporters.
You don't need to CURSE your leader if you are too attached to him and the umbilical cord cannot be broken, but AT LEAST do not show a blind allegiance... make them feel that your support rests on how they behave.

i agree

what pisses me off is that fpm has moved from a movement against this horrible sht system

to the glue now that keeps it together

and fpmers support this blindly, follow bassil the selfish prick blindly because he is hiring like berri does and is good at the sectarian game

where the hell is michel aoun of 2005 ?

f-ck berri, hariri, jumblat, geagea and their supports but in 2020 f-ck bassil too and fpm and its supporters

 

[Manifesto]

it so happens that i already had my first coffee... so my opinion is based on my sober mind, but thank you.



once again, your fixations are clouding your judgments.
as i said many times before (but you and resign refuse to see it), i don't care if aoun stays or goes.. i care more about the alternatives.
My concern is that there is so much "fixation" on aoun and FPM, that some of you kids are forgetting the long CORRUPTION history of berri, jumblatt, harirism, LF, Kataeb, etc... instead of bringing down the whole temple that they;re all pillars in, you are fixated on Bassil and Aoun.
FPM and aoun failed in bringing about change and reform... taking them out alone though will not bring a solution. You guys started with kelloun ya3ne kelloun, and now are fixated on 2 people only! and yes i have a problem with that.. i have a concern that the revolution will fail because of your biases. You guys criticize FPMers for being blind followers, and you forget that you are blind and haters of ONE party, at the expense of the others (this is not necessarily addressed to you @AtheistForJesus ... it's for everyone who is solely fixated on FPM/Aoun/Bassil while forgetting the others).

I guess people are fixated with Aoun and Bassil because they're the only ones still clinging to power. Hariri, Geagea, Kataeb, Jumblat have already resigned. By doing so, Aoun and Bassil are refusing to take responsibility for their failure. It's as simple as that and have to bear the brunt of protesters' anger.

 

[loubnaniTO]

I guess people are fixated with Aoun and Bassil because they're the only ones still clinging to power. Hariri, Geagea, Kataeb, Jumblat have already resigned. By doing so, Aoun and Bassil are refusing to take responsibility for their failure. It's as simple as that.

are you serious? that's not true at all... they might have "resigned" from the current government, but they didn't go anywhere... Jumblatt is still offering names and asking for 2 ministers (along Erslan), Hariri didn't go anywhere, he made sure most of his rivals couldn't get to the PM position and now is THREATENING hell if we take out Salame (DIDNT YOU HEAR HIM??) or Othman... and his people will not hesitate to occupy the streets every time he gets upset.
This is not change yet... that's what i am worried about...