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Lebanon: the identity crisis

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Lebanon has a long long hard journey to become a country and a nation and this journey cannot begin until the country can somehow achieve disarmament.

Must be nice having one solution for every problem. Eliminates that annoying business of having to think too much :)

Once that is done, it can go through a long journey of ups and downs over a hundred years or so to hopefully emerge as one nation.

You mean after half of it becomes part of Israel and the other half is bought by Gulf billionaires?
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
Fpm is the only party that tried to put basic elements for peaceful disarmament.

Others are just barking at the weapons for the Saudi behave...

Instead of the barking, the Saudi mercenaries could have built trust with the Shiites... only trust and dialogue can solve lebanon problem.

But you guys can keep barking on behalf of Al Saud... 10 years so far

Dogs are noble kind animals and I would be honored if I could bark like them, but alas :) and even if I could bark I have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia I am speaking about Lebanon. FPM covered arms outside the context of the state collaborated with them and leveraged them. Not a good thing.
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Dogs are noble kind animals and I would be honored if I could bark like them, but alas :) and even if I could bark I have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia I am speaking about Lebanon. FPM covered arms outside the context of the state collaborated with them and leveraged them. Not a good thing.

And who are you and what is your weight on Lebanese politics?

If you are not a Haririst, than you represent no one in Lebanon.

Lebanon politically is divided between the ones who are trying to find a peaceful disarmament of weapons and Hariri Saudi project in Lebanon...

If you are against one, you are with the other one... You are a Saudi Hariri project in this case and you havery said it clearly here
 

Republican

Legendary Member
Our problems can be summarized in two words: Political Islam.

Not Really;
This is an excerpt of a letter from "Yibitri" the Phoenician Prince to "Amenhotep III":

"Yabitiri, thy servant, the dust of thy feet, at the feet of my lord, my king, my gods, my sun, seven times, and seven times more, I fall down. Behold, I am thy servant, true to my lord, my king. I look on one side, and I look on the other side, and there is no light; but I look on my lord my king, and there is light. A brick may move away from under the coping, but I shall not move from under the feet of my master. (...)" [1]

This is a letter from the King of Tyre to Akhenaton asking for help against the King of Sidon (both Phoenicians):

"To the king, my lord, my god, my Sun: Message of Abi-Milku, your servant. I fall at the feet of the king, my lord, 7 times and 7 times. I am the dirt under the sandals of the king, my lord. (...) When the king, my lord, said ku-na "(Prepare) before the arrival of a large army," then the servant said to his lord : ia-a-ia-ia ("Yes, yes, yes!"). On my front and on su-ri-ia (my back) I carry the word of the king, my lord. Whoever gives heed to the king, his lord, and serves him in his place, the sun com[e]s forth over him, and the sweet breath comes back from the mouth of his lord. If he does not heed the word of the king, his lord, his city is destroyed, never (again) does his name exist in all the land. (But) look at the servant who gives heed to his lord. His city prospers, his house prospers, his name exists forever. (...)"



***
[1] This is truly the first shahata in written history!
 

Robin Hood

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Dogs are noble kind animals and I would be honored if I could bark like them, but alas :) and even if I could bark I have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia I am speaking about Lebanon. FPM covered arms outside the context of the state collaborated with them and leveraged them. Not a good thing.

Without those arms, Lebanon would have been swallowed by ISIS.
 

leb-wi-noss

Legendary Member
Not only we are deeply divided when it comes to soccer or basketball, we have to always be divided when it comes to foreign crises...

and not only we are divided in our opinions of foreign crises, but we suffer from an identity crisis, so deep that we approach the event horizon of identity confusion.

We forgot we were Lebanese in the 50s; we forgot we are Lebanese in 75 when we were divided between pro-Palestinian/Arab, pro-West; we forgot we were Lebanese when the Syrian conflict erupted and we became pro-Assad vs. anti-Assad; and now we forget we are Lebanese in the Saudi-Iranian conflict.

We are now divided. Pro Iran vs Pro Saudi Arabia. So divided, we can easily start a war.

For one group of Lebanese, Iranians are angels and Saudi Arabia is the ultimate evil supporting ISIS, and for the opposing group Saudi Arabia is our fairy godmother (in lieu of France) and Iran is the ultimate evil.

One group bashes Iran left and right, calls them terrorists and wilayat el faqih... but God forbids SHN attacks Saudi Arabia on TV, the minister sends a formal apology to Iran. Walaww, Saudi Arabia helps lebanon, employs thousands, and sends us billions of dollars

The other group bashes Saudi Arabia and calls them Terrorists, but God forbids anyone criticizes Iran, walaww they support the resistance and rebuilt the southern suburb.

Hearing the news lately makes me sick. We don't care what we have in common within our country, we don't care about making our lives better, our economy better, our rights better, our country better.. .we only care who will win, Saudia or Iran? Our lives now hang on what's happening in Yemen (in lieu of Syria). Whether or who we will get for President depends on the nuclear talks between Iran and the US, and how Saudi Arabia will react...

let's admit it... we are pathetic. We are immature..

Agreeing in principle, but isn't it unfair to always distribute the blame equally on both sides. Politically, each party is entitled to take sides in external conflicts between nations/parties/planets. What is not acceptable is that one side, who claimed for years that they are stocking arms just to protect Lebanon from the Israeli danger, send their men and arms to every country where Iran is fighting a war.
Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Gaza,... Are examples of many places HA was directly involved in their internal conflicts. Can you name one place were M14 sent men or arms to defend Saudi Arabia or the ... Martians?
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Agreeing in principle, but isn't it unfair to always distribute the blame equally on both sides. Politically, each party is entitled to take sides in external conflicts between nations/parties/planets. What is not acceptable is that one side, who claimed for years that they are stocking arms just to protect Lebanon from the Israeli danger, send their men and arms to every country where Iran is fighting a war.
Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Gaza,... Are examples of many places HA was directly involved in their internal conflicts. Can you name one place were M14 sent men or arms to defend Saudi Arabia or the ... Martians?

Hezbollah needs Iran and Syria, so they are doing it as much to help the latter, as they are doing it to help themselves and Lebanon. If Syria and Iran fall or weaken, Lebanon will be affected too, and not in a good way.

M14 have their own way of "helping" their allies. Through money deals. Even if it means selling Lebanon to them.
 

Dreaming in Red

Active Member
Lebanon has a long long hard journey to become a country and a nation and this journey cannot begin until the country can somehow achieve disarmament. Once that is done, it can go through a long journey of ups and downs over a hundred years or so to hopefully emerge as one nation.

FPM helped delay this humble beginning by supporting arms outside the context of the state, and leveraging them politically.
LOOOL This left me laughing for a whole minute. So we need to disarm NECESSARILY in order to ....well fight it over for the next 200 years ?? MAN !!!! This is the problem with you 14 february group, you have to use the flag word of disarmament before saying anything ....just for the sake of it.

Anyway the problem with Lebanon is that we hide behind our fingers, simply because we have trumpets of 14 march dictating whatever some fancy notion they attach themselves to. That is because they are detached capitalists, detached from reality of the common people. They bring alot of contradiction, they are the one who raise the banner of 10,452 km sq more than anyone else just for show, because they don't care about these 10,452 ..lek a2alla mashikle bi2ouloulak ni7na feeniqyeh give the sunni/shia lands to syria or whatever. While those who dont use the 10,452 banner are the ones who actually fought to protect it exactly as it is, even the SSNP because such groups respect their borders and identity even if they have different visions.


I do agree for the part regarding saudi arabia and Iran, we should dettach from both, but it might be convenient for us to be close to Iran. Iran are not Arab and they have been attacked and their image tainted for a long time among Arabs, they don't have any entitlement to get our support while saudi arabia forces itself upon us almost naturally, if we say NO, chaos erupts. Just to give you a small example, the FIRST thing Saudi Arabia does when approaching Lebanon is impoverishing the sunnis as in tripoli akkar etc to use for internal politics and interests. The FIRST thing Iran would do if it had at least friendly relations ( we aren't even talking of serious relationships) would be giving money to bring those sunni communities up in order to gain their sympathy and support. Iranians have to approach us with friendliness to appease us because they dont feel we owe them anything, while the saudis think we need to be their best buddies and tools for some natural reason and we can't be friends with those they dont accept.

Of course in general our identity is separate, and we need to identify it and make concessions to each other not as parties but as religions and sects and completely secularize the country and also define ourselves with respect to our surrounding particularly syria, we still didn't learn that to be able to separate ourselves from syria we need to bond with them and get closer, something like a unity but done with autonomy for us lebanese.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The only way to achieve building a nation in maybe a hundred years, is to someday achieve full disarmament, full disarmament can only be achieved when there is mutual trust between all the parties. Alas 14 feb parties have long back stabbed every other entity in the country and delayed this humble beginning...
 

Robin Hood

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
BTW, shouldn't we realize that we need some geographically-based federalization/decentralization in Lebanon?
 

xoxoGeorges

New Member
When there are two differing political ideologies with people already at odds, polarization is guaranteed.

And in addition, a small country is bound to be overtly influenced by international players, all of our internal problems were caused by foreign affiliation (West/Arabs; KSA/Iran; Pro-Assad/Anti-Assad). The most we can do is either decentralize Lebanon into some form of secular federation, or reinforce a stronger national identity (which probably won't work because people will never accept others' religion and ethnicity)
 

xoxoGeorges

New Member
Agreeing in principle, but isn't it unfair to always distribute the blame equally on both sides. Politically, each party is entitled to take sides in external conflicts between nations/parties/planets. What is not acceptable is that one side, who claimed for years that they are stocking arms just to protect Lebanon from the Israeli danger, send their men and arms to every country where Iran is fighting a war.
Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Gaza,... Are examples of many places HA was directly involved in their internal conflicts. Can you name one place were M14 sent men or arms to defend Saudi Arabia or the ... Martians?
But when our parties are defined by foreign affiliation/sides instead of their placement on the political spectrum, a real problem shows. All these parties are basically foreign embassies.
 

Amirkani

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Agreeing in principle, but isn't it unfair to always distribute the blame equally on both sides. Politically, each party is entitled to take sides in external conflicts between nations/parties/planets. What is not acceptable is that one side, who claimed for years that they are stocking arms just to protect Lebanon from the Israeli danger, send their men and arms to every country where Iran is fighting a war.
Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Gaza,... Are examples of many places HA was directly involved in their internal conflicts. Can you name one place were M14 sent men or arms to defend Saudi Arabia or the ... Martians?
HA might have sent men to fight in foreign countries while M14 did much worse. They brought foreign men into Lebanon to subdue Lebanese or occupy us.

Each side is using the leverage it has. While HA might be flexing its muscles through its abundant weapons, M14 is doing much worse by subjugating Lebanese through its control over Lebanon's finances... plus perpetually threatening us with foreign occupation.

From a purely Lebanese perspective, I would much rather see Lebanese fighting off threats to Lebanon in foreign territories than bringing in foreign threats inside Lebanon.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Hezbollah needs Iran and Syria, so they are doing it as much to help the latter, as they are doing it to help themselves and Lebanon. If Syria and Iran fall or weaken, Lebanon will be affected too, and not in a good way.

M14 have their own way of "helping" their allies. Through money deals. Even if it means selling Lebanon to them.

HA might have sent men to fight in foreign countries while M14 did much worse. They brought foreign men into Lebanon to subdue Lebanese or occupy us.

Each side is using the leverage it has. While HA might be flexing its muscles through its abundant weapons, M14 is doing much worse by subjugating Lebanese through its control over Lebanon's finances... plus perpetually threatening us with foreign occupation.

From a purely Lebanese perspective, I would much rather see Lebanese fighting off threats to Lebanon in foreign territories than bringing in foreign threats inside Lebanon.

Great minds think alike?

Or...

Behind every great man there's a great woman? ;)
 

JB81

Legendary Member
I personally would like the idea of a Levantine Confederation.

Me too... as long as it is based on total secularism...

Nice to have a country that streches from Iraq to Lebanon... having great cities such as Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Aleppo, Mosel, Basrah, Tripoli and Batroun
 

Amirkani

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Great minds think alike?

Or...

Behind every great man there's a great woman? ;)
Would a man dare think differently from his girlfriend?

Remember الرجل هو رأس المرأة والمرأة هي عنقه تديره كما تشاء ?
 

Dreaming in Red

Active Member
Me too... as long as it is based on total secularism...

Nice to have a country that streches from Iraq to Lebanon... having great cities such as Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Aleppo, Mosel, Basrah, Tripoli and Batroun

Halla2 khaleena bi damascus wbeirut wbatroun, sa3beh aktar min hek. Plus there is much cultural differences.
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
HA might have sent men to fight in foreign countries while M14 did much worse. They brought foreign men into Lebanon to subdue Lebanese or occupy us.

Each side is using the leverage it has. While HA might be flexing its muscles through its abundant weapons, M14 is doing much worse by subjugating Lebanese through its control over Lebanon's finances... plus perpetually threatening us with foreign occupation.

From a purely Lebanese perspective, I would much rather see Lebanese fighting off threats to Lebanon in foreign territories than bringing in foreign threats inside Lebanon.

I am going to go with the flow, with you on this one :)

But, as always, I want to learn more:
"They brought foreign men into Lebanon..." - Who did they bring?
"Control over Lebanon's finances..." - Who has that control?
"Perpetually threatening us with foreign occupation" - Who's the threat?
 
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