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Lebanon's Electricity Problem - Updates and Discussions

O Brother

Legendary Member
@Dr. Strangelove , @JB81

Not blaming fpm alone here.. I think people generally believe that behind every project in the country.. you see all these corrupts wanting to make money from it! So most of the time they fight about who will get the biggest slice!

And this is clearly the case here with Salaata or any other project...

But you want us to believe that bassil w 3amou la bassil are somehow better than all the rest of these dirty politicians when in fact they have been playing all along with them ALL for all these years..

So why are you blaming people for not trusting you or them?

Specially now that hariri is out of the government.. and you formed a government of your liking you keep making same excuses!

Anyway enough with dragging the thread with this.. there is no point in it!
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
Doesn't Khayyat and family have a thing to do with electricity construction?

Is he using his media to bully the government so he gets the contracts?

He is corrupt for sure but I don't know about his involvement in the electricity !!
And this is not just newtv you have even LBC saying this and even more..
I know that we shouldn't trust the media here but this will make us question what is happening..

As for bullying the government he doesn't need to do anything you are already fighting each others in the government..
 

Tayyar9

Legendary Member
Why are you so sure of this after all these years?

And no there are no others here.. stop this blaming the others all the time..

You are this government if it is not working then this government should resign!
Is the government made out only of FPMers? Since the answer is no, then there is a lot of others.
 

Tayyar9

Legendary Member
@Dr. Strangelove , @JB81

Not blaming fpm alone here.. I think people generally believe that behind every project in the country.. you see all these corrupts wanting to make money from it! So most of the time they fight about who will get the biggest slice!

And this is clearly the case here with Salaata or any other project...

But you want us to believe that bassil w 3amou la bassil are somehow better than all the rest of these dirty politicians when in fact they have been playing all along with them ALL for all these years..

So why are you blaming people for not trusting you or them?

Specially now that hariri is out of the government.. and you formed a government of your liking you keep making same excuses!

Anyway enough with dragging the thread with this.. there is no point in it!
You honestly believe that Bassil and Aoun are so stupid and so greedy that the problem is that they can't agree on how to slice the pie? Seriously? If they are stealing as much as you think they are, they prefer to keep getting insulted day and night, and being blamed for everything, just to not give the others anything?
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Sorry but no we are not all blind bassil or 3on followers like yourself if you trust everything the tayyar el 3awni says good for you!

As for me and many others we take it with a pinch of salt when politicians tells us something and that includes all of them!!!
One have to be extremely naive not to in these days!
ur pinch of salt counts for nothing when confronted with numbers abd figures and timelines.

u and most lebanese are biased and refuse to admit you are wrong.
so enjoy the endless back ad forth
 

Viral

Active Member
I have no objection against 24/24 electricity supply.
I have a problem with your approach.
Lebanon is in a desperate need for 24/24 mainly to cut its fiscal losses so people can eat! Your expression “having no objection with 24/24” suggests your top priorities are somewhere else while the country is bleeding…
A good citizen’s number one priority today should be fixing the electricity issue ASAP not just not having no objection fixing it as long as you’re satisfied with your side conditions. After all, this is the very attitude and behavior over 30 years that got the country where it is now.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
I just think Joelle got a point here.. don't you think?

this is very typical when someone is more interested in driving accusation than in finding out the truth. the reason why we do not have 24/7 electricity is precisely because people on all levels are more interested in bickering than they are in the truth, or even doing the right thing.

the minister addressed and clarified this claim very eloquently. why are you still hangup on it?
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
Maybe with all existing sectarianism in this country and how the country is built there should be a "Marouni power plant"...
I get that how many feels here.. so sure you should go for it!

But clearly like any big project in the country there are some sort of playing with the numbers and if they are caught they use excuses like oh it was just a typo i added few more or less zeros somehow :lol:

Yet you people expect us to believe it.. to be honest I don't think even you believe it.. this is all about your bias because you want a power plant based on our sectarian divisions and all ... bassil will use this sectarianism to make it pass of course but in reality it is all about shady deals so the few can make load of cash...
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
Maybe with all existing sectarianism in this country and how the country is built there should be a "Marouni power plant"...
I get that how many feels here.. so sure you should go for it!

But clearly like any big project in the country there are some sort of playing with the numbers and if they are caught they use excuses like oh it was just a typo i added few more or less zeros somehow :lol:

Yet you people expect us to believe it.. to be honest I don't think even you believe it.. this is all about your bias because you want a power plant based on our sectarian divisions and all ... bassil will use this sectarianism to make it pass of course but in reality it is all about shady deals so the few can make load of cash...
we do not expect you to do anything, we have seen you wejj w afa, we really expect nothing of you. what we hope for is ino t7ello 3anno w tfekko 7atta no2dor neshteghel. you guys not only do nothing, but also do not want anyone else to do anything. the culture of mediocrity.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Maybe with all existing sectarianism in this country and how the country is built there should be a "Marouni power plant"...
I get that how many feels here.. so sure you should go for it!

But clearly like any big project in the country there are some sort of playing with the numbers and if they are caught they use excuses like oh it was just a typo i added few more or less zeros somehow :lol:

Yet you people expect us to believe it.. to be honest I don't think even you believe it.. this is all about your bias because you want a power plant based on our sectarian divisions and all ... bassil will use this sectarianism to make it pass of course but in reality it is all about shady deals so the few can make load of cash...
chefet kif u’d rather drown in your salt instead of acknowledging numbers and admitting you were wrong.
pathetic :)
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
chefet kif u’d rather drown in your salt instead of acknowledging numbers and admitting you were wrong.
pathetic :)

hahaha stop playing around.. there is clearly something fishy here.. when you have a previous 3awni minister telling you one thing then telling you another and say ohh sorry it was all a typo of few millions of dollars :lol:

So what was I wrong about again? like I already said here not all people blindly trust bassil or his 3amou like you guys do and are willing to take their words as facts!

What Bassil is trying to sell you here that this is the "Christian power plant" and of course the rest is known and its fine because this is how this country is but don't tell me that there isn't something fishy here and your dirty politicians will not try to milk something out from any project they set their dirty hands on!

ye3ni if Bassil is not a corrupt then dark angel is mother teresa :lol:
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
hahaha stop playing around.. there is clearly something fishy here.. when you have a previous 3awni minister telling you one thing then telling you another and say ohh sorry it was all a typo of few millions of dollars :lol:

So what was I wrong about again? like I already said here not all people blindly trust bassil or his 3amou like you guys do and are willing to take their words as facts!

What Bassil is trying to sell you here that this is the "Christian power plant" and of course the rest is known and its fine because this is how this country is but don't tell me that there isn't something fishy here and your dirty politicians will not try to milk something out from any project they set their dirty hands on!

ye3ni if Bassil is not a corrupt then dark angel is mother teresa :lol:
great take bassil and his 3ammou to court and expose their lies and theft.
you have the numbers, you have the proof, what are you waiting for? het those thieves and stop the maronite powerplant in the name of allah :D
Perfect. Now let those who made the video take all those "facts" to court and prove them there. That way we will not believe FPM anymore.
for some reason he believes some numbers like they are mounzalin from a tv report, but not other numbers from the people responsible of the work, its impressive
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
Perfect. Now let those who made the video take all those "facts" to court and prove them there. That way we will not believe FPM anymore.

The court? under which judge? lets not kid ourselves this is Lebanon.. your court system is politicized..
In the end they will reach a deal whether it happen in hannouch or silaata or whatever everyone will take his slice from each project..
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
The court? under which judge? lets not kid ourselves this is Lebanon.. your court system is politicized..
In the end they will reach a deal whether it happen in hannouch or silaata or whatever everyone will take his slice from each project..
u’re something else 😂😂
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
great take bassil and his 3ammou to court and expose their lies and theft.
you have the numbers, you have the proof, what are you waiting for? het those thieves and stop the maronite powerplant in the name of allah :D

for some reason he believes some numbers like they are mounzalin from a tv report, but not other numbers from the people responsible of the work, its impressive

laaa lakan we should trust the ones manipulating the costs :ban:
 

O Brother

Legendary Member
معمل سلعاتا: فتّش عن المصالح الصينية

1 حزيران 2020 خالد أبو شقرا

أعاد مجلس الوزراء فتح "قبر" الكهرباء في جلسته الاخيرة المنعقدة في 29 أيار الماضي. وعلى رمق تماسك الحكومة الاخير، إنتشل الوزراء معمل سلعاتا الذي دفن قبل أقل من نصف شهر، وتحديداً في 15/5/2020. الحكومة جدّدت بشخص رئيسها ووزرائها التمسك بخطة الكهرباء الواردة في البيان الوزاري، بعد طلب من رئيس الجمهورية. فعاد معمل سلعاتا ليتصدر قائمة المشاريع "المكهربة". وبغض النظر عن الكسر السياسي والاشكاليات القانونية والخلاف على الموقع، وما إذا كان في سلعاتا أم في حالات... فان السؤال الأهم هو: هل من جدوى اقتصادية لهذا المعمل؟


قضية المعمل "الإشكالي" عادت إلى الواجهة في عهد الوزير أرثيور نظريان. ففي العام 2014 نقضت وزارة الطاقة توصية "موت ماكدونالد" لجهة تحديد موقع المعمل، واستقدمت "Fichtner"، التي حددت مكاناً آخر مصنفاً محمية طبيعية، ويعتريه الكثير من المشاكل والإعتراضات من البلدية والأهالي. وهذا ما يظهره كتاب بلدية سلعاتا الاخير إلى مجلس الوزراء. حيث أكدت البلدية ان "المكان الاساسي للمعمل هو في حامات الخالية من أي تجمع سكني أو صناعي. هذا اذا كان من الضروري جداً اقامة معمل في المنطقة".

بالاضافة إلى الغايات السياسية فان إصرار الوزارة على سلعاتا يعود بحسب "ملتقى التأثير المدني" إلى ان الاراضي المراد استملاكها تعود إلى مقربين من "التيار الوطني الحر". ومن بينهم شركة "ميكادا" وأفراد من عائلة أحد النواب اعضاء "التكتل"، الذين يمتلكون من الاراضي ما تزيد مساحتها عن 228 الف متر مربع، وبقيمة تتجاوز 200 مليون دولار. ورغم محاولة وزيرة الطاقة السابقة ندى البستاني تغيير تصريحاتها حول قيمة الاستملاكات من 200 إلى 30 مليون دولار، أبرزت المستندات ان القيمة هي 207 ملايين، وربما أكثر.

الجدوى الاقتصادية... سلبية

الجملة الاخيرة من بيان البلدية حول ضرورة المشروع من عدمها، تنضم إلى تساؤلات الخبراء وأصحاب الاختصاص في الداخل والخارج عن جدوى هذا المعمل، الذي سنستمر بتسميته "سلعاتا" كما ورد في الخطة. في الشكل المعمل مرفوض من المجتمع المحلي والجمعيات البيئية ولم يُقنع الوزراء، بدليل استبعاده في الاساس. وهو لا يتوافق مع متطلبات البنك الدولي الذي أوصى بالعمل على إطلاق معمل جديد في الزهراني فوراً لأن ملفه جاهز، قبل التفكير بإنشاء معمل جديد في سلعاتا. كما ان تحويل عقد بناء المعمل الى عقد شراكة بسحر ساحر، ودونما اجراء مناقصات جديدة وفق الأصول القانونية بحجة التسريع في التنفيذ، يشي بحسب "الملتقى"، بمدى خطورة التجاوزات القانونية التي تمارس، خصوصاً بعد مرور سنتين من دون البدء بالتنفيذ. هذا وكانت شركة كهرباء فرنسا EDF قد أعدت مسودة دراسة أولية عن عدم جدوى المعمل وانتفاء الحاجة اليه، لكن وزير الطاقة الحالي ريمون غجر يرفض وضعها على طاولة مجلس الوزراء للنقاش، لضمان استمرار المعمل. لبنان، بحسب عضو مجلس إدارة ملتقى التأثيرالمدني د. منير يحيى، لا يحتاج إلى ثلاثة معامل للكهرباء بهذا الحجم للعشرين عاماً القادمة". و"السبب ليس تناقص الحاجة إلى الكهرباء، بل لان الكلفة التي سيتحملها الاقتصاد والمستهلكون ستكون باهظة جداً ولا تتلاءم مع التطور الحاصل في الطاقة المتجددة". وبحسب يحيى، فان الكلفة الوسطية لكل كيلوات/ساعة منتجة ستكون مضاعفة عن الكلفة الحالية وتقدر بنحو 16 سنتاً. وذلك بسبب التكاليف الهائلة لانشاء وصيانة المعمل".كلفة المعمل

بحسب الدراسات فان صفقة بناء معمل سلعاتا ستكلف المبالغ التالية:

- أكثر من 500 مليون دولار من العقود المباشرة مع عمولتها والاعمال الباطنية (اشغال مدنية وغيرها).

- كلفة التشغيل والصيانة تصل الى 1 مليار دولار في الـ 15 سنة القادمة.

- تمويل سياسي لأكثر من 15 مليار دولار في خمس عشرة سنة قادمة سيدفعها الأبناء والأحفاد.

- وجوب تأمين مبالغ مالية هائلة للاستملاكات، تقدر بحسب وثيقة صادرة عن مؤسسة كهرباء لبنان بـ 200 مليون دولار.

- عدم وجود البنى التحتية المطلوبة في المنطقة، وارتفاع كلفة ربطها بالشبكة.

- عدم تخطي المسافة بينها وبين معملي دير عمار 27 كلم فقط.

"القصة مش كهربا"

أمام هذا الواقع المأسوي في بلد عالق وسط رمال الأزمة الاقتصادية المتحركة، لا يسعنا التفكير إلا بالهدف الحقيقي الذي يجعل من هذا المعمل من "المقدسات"، رغم شوائبه الكبيرة. فان لم يكن الهدف منه توفير الطاقة بأقل كلفة ممكنة، فما تراه يكون؟

بحسب كل المعطيات المجمعة فان المعمل يخفي هدفين رئيسيين غير معلنين. الاول يتعلق بتأمين منفذ للصين، المرشحة لاستلام المشروع، على شاطئ البحر الابيض المتوسط. خصوصاً ان المعمل سيكون له مرفأ ومن الممكن ان تتأمن له محطة تغويز مستقلة. أما الثاني فهو استمرار استغلال الكهرباء لتمرير الصفقات، رغم كل الملاحظات الدولية عن أهمية الشفافية لمساعدة لبنان. وهذا ما برز برأي يحيى، بشكل واضح بـ "تفويض الوزير منفرداً المفاوضة وتوجيه الشركات الى المواقع التي يريدها. وبالتالي توقيع عقودٍ ستتراوح قيمتها بين 2 و5 مليارات دولار أميركي، من دون الرجوع إلى ادارة المناقصات، وبتغييب فاضح للجان الوزارية ومجلس الوزراء".

السابقة غير القانونية في توقيع العقود بالتراضي ومحاولة الالتفاف على كل الشروط الدولية، بايجاد حل نهائي ودائم للكهرباء والانتهاء من الحلول الموقتة المتمثلة في البواخر. الأخذ برأي فختنر Fichtner""، شركة الاستشارات العالمية الموضوع عليها حظر"Baning" من البنك الدولي بشبهة فساد في مشروع في الكونغو، من أجل توفير غطاء لنقل مكان المعمل الى سلعاتا. الغايات الجيوسياسية من وراء انشاء المعمل، تواجده بحسب بلدية سلعاتا على بعد أمتار من تجمع صناعي كبير (شركة كيماويات لبنان وشركة الزيوت ومشتقاتها وهما تضمّان أكثر من 600 عامل بالاضافة الى وجود مرفأ شركة زيوت). الاصرار على اقامته بالقرب من اماكن سكنية... عوامل تجعل اقامة هذا المعمل جريمة بحق الوطن والمواطن. هذا ان كان الهدف محصوراً فقط بالمصالح المادية ولا يتعداها الى مشاريع التقسيم، التي يكثر الحديث عنها في الايام الأخيرة. فهل يشكل المعمل الضمانة الاساسية لمشروع التقسيم؟ سؤال ستجاوب عليه الايام القادمة. انما ما لن يلقى أي جواب هو غرق لبنان في العتمة الكالحة قريباً وعدم حصوله على أي مساعدة، بعد الاهمال المتعمد لكل الحلول القائمة على الطاقة المتجددة بديمومة أطول وكلفة أقل.
 
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