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LGBT Rights in Lebanon

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
tolerance? acceptance? Shu 3allamak ur Jesus?

You should really watch the documentary. This is beyond tolerance at this point. These people are having respected doctors fired because the science doesn't support their propaganda.

And there was an incident that made people realize that some university "professors" are literally indoctrinating students and censoring viewpoints they don't agree with.

A law was passed to force people to use non-traditional pronouns for transgender people. When a psychology professor objected to the forced speech and explained why, attempts were made to tarnish his name and get him fired.

A teaching assistant at one university showed her class a video clip of that professor arguing with a pro-trans activist and she was summoned to a meeting and grilled for almost an hour for daring to show both sides of the debate. She was told a complaint had been made against her by students who felt "unsafe" in her class. Thankfully, she had the foresight to record the meeting and went public with it, which caused an outrage and forced the university to carry an investigation. It turned out no complaint was ever made. The professors invented the whole thing. One of the professors writes "scholarly papers" on the topic of "leather in sado-masochistic identity." These people call themselves "activist professors" and openly admit they are against free-speech and that their goal is to indoctrinate students.

Some things should not be tolerated, period.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "your Jesus." There is only one Jesus and you should not be speaking in His name.

Instead of replying to me you should have read who I was replying to. :)
He is the one who said my Jesus so I replied my Jesus.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter

Indeed...

Even this very moderate and balanced documentary was "unacceptable" for the trans lobby; and, national, tax-payer funded broadcasters are bowing their head and complying with the insanity.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Instead of replying to me you should have read who I was replying to. :)
He is the one who said my Jesus so I replied my Jesus.

I can speak in the name of whoever I like.

And why do you let yourself be provoked instead of replying with a calm-head and with logic? Ya3ni heik... ;)

@SeaAb :

"Tolerance is not necessarily a virtue. There is a great deal that love refuses to tolerate."

Jesus preached about love. Love and blind tolerance are not the same thing.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
And why do you let yourself be provoked instead of replying with a calm-head and with logic? Ya3ni heik... ;)

@SeaAb :

"Tolerance is not necessarily a virtue. There is a great deal that love refuses to tolerate."

Jesus preached about love. Love and blind tolerance are not the same thing.

I am not provoked at all. For me these so called 'rights' aren't rights. :)
In Australia they approved Gay marriage about 3 weeks ago. For me it is a disgrace. It is not only about two people being together but the repercussions of such an act later on. Already people are marrying at older ages and having fewer kids now we have to deal with this?? I just think that it is pathetic.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
tolerance? acceptance? Shu 3allamak ur Jesus?
Jesus taught us to accept the person but reject the sin. we tolerate what is wrong, but we do not accept it as the norm, rather we seek to correct it.
If my Jesus was houne he would have killed them.
my Jesus was houne, and he does not kill anyone :)
stalamna :p however the following needs to be said. there is quite a perversion manifesting itself not in the basic tendencies of the individual exhibiting issues with identifying their own gender - which in my opinion are often due to psychological issues that open themselves up for therapy and treatment - it is rather within the special interest groups and pressure groups, and that should neither be accepted nor tolerated.

people are free to make their own choices, however they do not have the right to politicize the research, threaten and carry out threats against everyone who disagrees twisted and perverted notions. i think it is time societies say enough is enough.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
Jesus taught us to accept the person but reject the sin. we tolerate what is wrong, but we do not accept it as the norm, rather we seek to correct it.

my Jesus was houne, and he does not kill anyone :)

stalamna :p however the following needs to be said. there is quite a perversion manifesting itself not in the basic tendencies of the individual exhibiting issues with identifying their own gender, it is rather within the special interest groups and pressure groups, and that should neither be accepted nor tolerated.

people are free to make their own choices, however they do not have the right to politicize the research, threaten and carry out threats against everyone who disagrees twisted and perverted notions. i think it is time societies say enough is enough.

You want me to accept the person but not his sin? Say the same thing when your child goes that route. Just to talk about it is easy but when it hits home then its a whole different issue. Jesus wouldn't have wanted people to be gay or lesbians nor would he have supported it. He would have tried to save their souls from this sin. This is a sin. I will not accept it nor accept the person who is doing it. This affects our whole culture, way of life, etc. What does one actually teach his child? It is ok to be gay because his friend has two dad's or two mums? :)
noo friend it is not ok and it is not acceptable.
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
I don't want to talk about religion but Jesus said these people are fallen people. Relationship is between a man and a woman. These freaks are disgusting.
Let's leave Jesus out of it for now :)

It is normal for some people to be gay, and gender dysphoria is real and we shouldn't shun people out of society. I only have an issue with the way we approach this topic and with the way we teach children about it as a society. I think it is ok to oppose or have different views on how society approaches this, but it is not ok to vilify and shun and discriminate against these groups.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
Let's leave Jesus out of it for now :)

It is normal for some people to be gay, and gender dysphoria is real and we shouldn't shun people out of society. I only have an issue with the way we approach this topic and with the way we teach children about it as a society. I think it is ok to oppose or have different views on how society approaches this, but it is not ok to vilify and shun and discriminate against these groups.

I don't want to bring religion into it as each religion will oppose such acts.
This is becoming the norm and countries are changing laws to benefit these acts which are not normal in 'OUR' society.
What do I tell my child exactly when she/he asks me especially that I am against such acts? Countries are not looking into the repercussions of such acts but actually rewarding it i.e Gay marriage in Australia.
halla2 anywhere you go you see two same sex people kissing, holding hands, hugging etc. It is disgusting and not one I support at all. I won't be violent towards them just don't come near me. They can live however they want to live but does not mean I endorse such a view.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
You want me to accept the person but not his sin? Say the same thing when your child goes that route. Just to talk about it is easy but when it hits home then its a whole different issue. Jesus wouldn't have wanted people to be gay or lesbians nor would he have supported it. He would have tried to save their souls from this sin. This is a sin. I will not accept it nor accept the person who is doing it. This affects our whole culture, way of life, etc. What does one actually teach his child? It is ok to be gay because his friend has two dad's or two mums? :)
noo friend it is not ok and it is not acceptable.

i do not want you or anyone to do anything. it is all about free will. just like someone is free not to accept their own biological gender, you are also free not to accept them in return, but you would be both in the wrong. at that point you would be choosing not accept Christ as well, and this also is about your free will. Christ did not come for the healthy, but rather for sinners.

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."​

if God came to our world, to earth, became human for the sake of the sinners, ie those who have freely rejected Him, and even then He accorded the freedom to many who not only still rejected Him in His own presence, but also crucified Him. so you are also free to accept or reject whatever you want.

to me it is a different issue and it manifests itself on a different level. mankind as a race defines itself through struggle and hardships, when there is nothing left, no transcendent or higher objective to struggle and aspire for, we lose our definition of ourselves on social and on individual levels. much of the perversion is the result of the violation of Truth at some level and it is at this dimension that it should be addressed and treated. i do not inquire about peoples sexual preferences, but i am quite sure i have a couple of friends who are not straight, i do not treat them any different, i do not change my principles for them either.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
i do not want you or anyone to do anything. it is all about free will. just like someone is free not to accept their own biological gender, you are also free not to accept them in return, but you would be both in the wrong. at that point you would be choosing not accept Christ as well, and this also is about your free will. Christ did not come for the healthy, but rather for sinners.

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."​

if God came to our world, to earth, became human for the sake of the sinners, ie those who have freely rejected Him, and even then He accorded the freedom to many who not only still rejected Him in His own presence, but also crucified Him. so you are also free to accept or reject whatever you want.

to me it is a different issue and it manifests itself on a different level. mankind as a race defines itself through struggle and hardships, when there is nothing left, no transcendent or higher objective to struggle and aspire for, we lose our definition of ourselves on social and on individual levels. much of the perversion is the result of the violation of Truth at some level and it is at this dimension that it should be addressed and treated. i do not inquire about peoples sexual preferences, but i am quite sure i have a couple of friends who are not straight, i do not treat them any different, i do not change my principles for them either.

I don't enquire about their sexual preferences either. What I am saying is that allowing this to happen is wrong. I am not talking about a religious perspective. Just morally wrong.

How can one explain to his child what is happening?? These days all has turn to shit. This bullshit sense that everyone is free to do what they like, when they like, is sickening. There are no boundaries, no red lines and no shame. It is sick. My principles wont change on the matter.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
I don't enquire about their sexual preferences either. What I am saying is that allowing this to happen is wrong. I am not talking about a religious perspective. Just morally wrong.

How can one explain to his child what is happening?? These days all has turn to shit. This bullshit sense that everyone is free to do what they like, when they like, is sickening. There are no boundaries, no red lines and no shame. It is sick. My principles wont change on the matter.

it is wrong on several perspectives, the most pronounced one is that special interest groups have infiltrated schools and are actually teaching wrong notions about gender to little kids, including things like you can be a different gender if you want to, to little kids who can not exercise neither choice nor judgment yet.

to me the battle is elsewhere, it is in the how did these groups infiltrate the educational system. and the answer is simple, it is because people feel ashamed of their values instead of being proud of them, because they do not bring witness to the truth when they can, they would rather stay silent. and mainly it is because people do not carry Christ in their hearts and minds as they should, which is what leads to the schism with ethics and morality. it is as simple as that.

and yes the schism and the divorce from the truth are spiritual in nature.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
it is wrong on several perspectives, the most pronounced one is that special interest groups have infiltrated schools and are actually teaching wrong notions about gender to little kids, including things like you can be a different gender if you want to, to little kids who can not exercise neither choice nor judgment yet.

to me the battle is elsewhere, it is in the how did these groups infiltrate the educational system. and the answer is simple, it is because people feel ashamed of their values instead of being proud of them, because they do not bring witness to the truth when they can, they would rather stay silent. and mainly it is because people do not carry Christ in their hearts and minds as they should, which is what leads to the schism with ethics and morality. it is as simple as that.

and yes the schism and the divorce from the truth are spiritual in nature.

This is what one worries about especially the school system. I dont want teachers to teach my kid its ok masalan to be gay. Its fu---- up. Society has no morals and it has all gone downhill.
 

spacecreature

Well-Known Member
When I see the transgender debacle happening in the West, where I live, I remember that people used to tell me opening the door to gay rights would open the door to a whole bunch of other stuff. I didn't believe them then, but they were right.

It is better for Lebanon not to go down that path.

That being said, I am against criminalizing or harming people for being gay or trans. But there is a difference between the latter and an "anything goes" attitude.

Here is a balanced documentary that is being banned by national broadcasters in the West as a result of the trans lobby. Highly respectable people are literally losing their jobs, free speech is being criminalized, and people are being harassed if they even dare to offer a middle-ground perspective (forget being fully anti-trans). The situation has reached dystopian proportions and it is simply unacceptable.


In case the video stops working, you can find it elsewhere online. The documentary is called "Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best?"

Fascinating documentary and well balanced, tnx for sharing. I don't get how people can be so completely convinced one way or the other though, it makes you question things a lot.
I think most kids face problems at some point growing up and many go through identity crisis issues, the tragic dilemma is that only if you start transitioning very early in life do you get satisfactory convincing results otherwise we end up with a "freakish" result (that is also debatable as notion of beauty is evolving and perhaps normality is obsolete) . On the other hand If you start very soon you might later on realize you made the wrong choice,and by the way I have read reports that suggest a much higher (aka alarming rate) of trans regretting their choice and even going through another transitioning episode to go back to their original sex..we are in a pickle!

I wonder how much the pharmaceutical n medical lobbies are behind this trend though, coz I am sure there is a lot of $$$ to be made here n I don't think it was mentioned in the doc or maybe I missed it. (Just like how useless preventative mammograms are still being shoved down our throats or how pointless chemotherapies that only kill you faster are still being recommended!)
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
When I see the transgender debacle happening in the West, where I live, I remember that people used to tell me opening the door to gay rights would open the door to a whole bunch of other stuff. I didn't believe them then, but they were right.

What do you mean by the whole transgender debacle happening in the west?

Also what do you mean by "opening the door to gay rights would open the door to other stuff"? The thread is called lgbt rights in Lebanon, you started the thread, what did you think the t stood for lol?

Also if you think we somehow crossed a line nowadays regarding LGBT+ rights where exactly did you draw that line? ie: where do you think tolerance should stop because this is a very questionable line of reasoning at least in my opinion!


It is better for Lebanon not to go down that path.

REALLY? so you think it's better to oppress gay people in Lebanon because you think they have "too many rights in the west"? Of course you're going to say this is not what you said but this is exactly where your entire post is heading! Fact of the matter is, regardless of your own personal opinion of transgender individuals, the LGBTQ+ community in Lebanon has little to no rights, and here you are stating that it's better for Lebanon not to go down this path! All is being asked in our country is a little bit of tolerance and acceptance, but I guess even that is too much to ask for and is grounds for some objections based on moral relativism!

That being said, I am against criminalizing or harming people for being gay or trans. But there is a difference between the latter and an "anything goes" attitude.

Right well this is slightly better than your first paragraph lol! But care to explain what do you mean by "anything goes" attitude? Basically what I want to know is where are you drawing your fictitious line? ie: where do you think people's gender identity or sexual orientation stops being something personal and becomes something society as a whole must partake in and judge as being "too much"?


Here is a balanced documentary that is being banned by national broadcasters in the West as a result of the trans lobby. Highly respectable people are literally losing their jobs, free speech is being criminalized, and people are being harassed if they even dare to offer a middle-ground perspective (forget being fully anti-trans). The situation has reached dystopian proportions and it is simply unacceptable.


In case the video stops working, you can find it elsewhere online. The documentary is called "Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best?"

Watching your documentary now I'll be commenting on it later :)
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What do you mean by the whole transgender debacle happening in the west?

Also what do you mean by "opening the door to gay rights would open the door to other stuff"? The thread is called lgbt rights in Lebanon, you started the thread, what did you think the t stood for lol?

Also if you think we somehow crossed a line nowadays regarding LGBT+ rights where exactly did you draw that line? ie: where do you think tolerance should stop because this is a very questionable line of reasoning at least in my opinion!




REALLY? so you think it's better to oppress gay people in Lebanon because you think they have "too many rights in the west"? Of course you're going to say this is not what you said but this is exactly where your entire post is heading! Fact of the matter is, regardless of your own personal opinion of transgender individuals, the LGBTQ+ community in Lebanon has little to no rights, and here you are stating that it's better for Lebanon not to go down this path! All is being asked in our country is a little bit of tolerance and acceptance, but I guess even that is too much to ask for and is grounds for some objections based on moral relativism!



Right well this is slightly better than your first paragraph lol! But care to explain what do you mean by "anything goes" attitude? Basically what I want to know is where are you drawing your fictitious line? ie: where do you think people's gender identity or sexual orientation stops being something personal and becomes something society as a whole must partake in and judge as being "too much"?




Watching your documentary now I'll be commenting on it later :)

Watch the documentary and do some research on the craziness happening in Canada and the U.S. and then we'll talk.

You said it: I started this thread. So you can imagine what kind of insanity I'm witnessing lately to say what I'm saying.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Fascinating documentary and well balanced, tnx for sharing. I don't get how people can be so completely convinced one way or the other though, it makes you question things a lot.
I think most kids face problems at some point growing up and many go through identity crisis issues, the tragic dilemma is that only if you start transitioning very early in life do you get satisfactory convincing results otherwise we end up with a "freakish" result (that is also debatable as notion of beauty is evolving and perhaps normality is obsolete) . On the other hand If you start very soon you might later on realize you made the wrong choice,and by the way I have read reports that suggest a much higher (aka alarming rate) of trans regretting their choice and even going through another transitioning episode to go back to their original sex..we are in a pickle!

I wonder how much the pharmaceutical n medical lobbies are behind this trend though, coz I am sure there is a lot of $$$ to be made here n I don't think it was mentioned in the doc or maybe I missed it. (Just like how useless preventative mammograms are still being shoved down our throats or how pointless chemotherapies that only kill you faster are still being recommended!)

Here's another factor to add to all of this:

"...rapid-onset gender dysphoria. It’s new. Something scientists are only beginning to notice. It happens to kids—mostly teenage girls—who are really bright, but have trouble fitting in...And they spend too much time on the Internet...kids with rapid-onset usually have friends who think they’re trans, too. It’s a social contagion. If one kid transitions, their friends get the idea, too. It spreads.”

Call the Police! Mom questions transgender treatment model, gets banned from support group

But hey...let's shut down respected doctors who try to treat gender-dysphoric patients on a case by case basis, and accuse concerned parents of child abuse if they don't immediately "affirm" their children's whims!

Based on the above, who can blame @Aoune32! of being concerned for his kids?
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
@Indie now regarding the documentary, I think it is quite balanced, as in does not pass judgement one way or another... And while I'm not sure how I feel regarding the question of children's gender identity, ie: if my future child comes to me and tells me she feels like she's a boy, or alternatively he feels like he's a girl, I'm not sure how I would react and whether I would let them just live their lives as the other gender, but I know that I would read up and try to learn a lot more about gender dysphoria and hope that I don't contribute to damaging their psyche!

Now regarding the firing of the psychologist from the gender identity clinic, I don't know how I feel about that, ie: a basic Google search regarding him has shown that he was not technically fired for holding a different opinion regarding children's gender identity but rather for engaging in what a review of his clinic called "conversion therapy" and even mocking a trans teenager so I don't really know where I stand regarding him lol!


All of the above out of the way, I do think that children as young as 4 should not be the final authority regarding their own gender however I do believe that psychological help should be readily available for them and they should be made as comfortable as possible in their own skin... I honestly have no idea what it's like to believe you are in the wrong body, and would not know the first thing about handling the situation!

All in all I did like the documentary and thought the approach was quite balanced, they showed both sides of the debate and neither side was inflammatory, no idea why it was banned though lol
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Indie now regarding the documentary, I think it is quite balanced, as in does not pass judgement one way or another... And while I'm not sure how I feel regarding the question of children's gender identity, ie: if my future child comes to me and tells me she feels like she's a boy, or alternatively he feels like he's a girl, I'm not sure how I would react and whether I would let them just live their lives as the other gender, but I know that I would read up and try to learn a lot more about gender dysphoria and hope that I don't contribute to damaging their psyche!

Now regarding the firing of the psychologist from the gender identity clinic, I don't know how I feel about that, ie: a basic Google search regarding him has shown that he was not technically fired for holding a different opinion regarding children's gender identity but rather for engaging in what a review of his clinic called "conversion therapy" and even mocking a trans teenager so I don't really know where I stand regarding him lol!


All of the above out of the way, I do think that children as young as 4 should not be the final authority regarding their own gender however I do believe that psychological help should be readily available for them and they should be made as comfortable as possible in their own skin... I honestly have no idea what it's like to believe you are in the wrong body, and would not know the first thing about handling the situation!

All in all I did like the documentary and thought the approach was quite balanced, they showed both sides of the debate and neither side was inflammatory, no idea why it was banned though lol

2 things:

- The doctor was not practicing conversion therapy. This is pure propaganda on the part of the trans lobby, in order to discredit him. His methods were outlined in the documentary. And thousands of other doctors signed a petition to protest his firing.

- The documentary was banned because the trans lobby and SJW ideologues want to censor any voice, no matter how credible, that does not fully support their agenda. It is that simple. These people are dangerous for society.

And I'll just make a last point (@joseph_lubnan mentioned this): no one is denying that gender dysphoria is a real psychological condition. But so are schizophrenia, PTSD, depression, and a whole bunch of other conditions. No one in the latter categories is passing laws to force psychologically healthy people to adopt their unhealthy perspective, and calling people bigoted and phobic if they refuse.
 
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