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LGBT Rights in Lebanon

spacecreature

Well-Known Member
Here's another factor to add to all of this:

"...rapid-onset gender dysphoria. It’s new. Something scientists are only beginning to notice. It happens to kids—mostly teenage girls—who are really bright, but have trouble fitting in...And they spend too much time on the Internet...kids with rapid-onset usually have friends who think they’re trans, too. It’s a social contagion. If one kid transitions, their friends get the idea, too. It spreads.”

Call the Police! Mom questions transgender treatment model, gets banned from support group

But hey...let's shut down respected doctors who try to treat gender-dysphoric patients on a case by case basis, and accuse concerned parents of child abuse if they don't immediately "affirm" their children's whims!

Based on the above, who can blame @Aoune32! of being concerned for his kids?


Well anyway I know from personal experience that you can overcome the beleif you are trans, yes I am coming out lol, and you can even do it without a professional therapist...but that doesn't mean all your psychological problems will be over unfortunately. I am pretty sure it's not in your DNA to be like that, even when you are like that at a very young age, except for the few who are maybe hermaphrodite, but for the vast majority it's just non optimum conditions growing up, your upbringing, your experiences, the context, your education etc lots of factors! Being gay also. If you can't change it, it doesn't mean you were born that way, it just means its so well engrained into your core, you can't possibly change it or you might spend the majority of your time and energy trying, which makes it a complete waste. Especially since it's not that bad, and you are not hurting anyone.It's just like a fetish or a different lifestyle.
Though it's pretty fascinating that you can now choose your sex haha. In some fish species, the female fish can change her sex n become male when there is a lack of males around for example, so it's not all that absurd or "unatural". Boys and girls are also practically the same until puberty hits, so this whole thing is silly in the larger spectrum of life :)
 
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Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Well anyway I know from personal experience that you can overcome the beleif you are trans, yes I am coming out lol, and you can even do it without a professional therapist...but that doesn't mean all your psychological problems will be over unfortunately. I am pretty sure it's not in your DNA to be like that, even when you are like that at a very young age, except for the few who are maybe hermaphrodite, but for the vast majority it's just non optimum conditions growing up, your upbringing, your experiences, the context, your education etc lots of factors! Being gay also. If you can't change it, it doesn't mean you were born that way, it just means its so well engrained into your core, you can't possibly change it or you might spend the majority of your time and energy trying, which makes it a complete waste.

Agree, except the "waste" part. Whether or not someone considers it a waste depends on what they prioritize in life. For example, some people who have homosexual tendencies and who are unable to form relationships with the opposite sex decide to devote their life to God, instead. In that way, they neither have to force themselves to feel things they don't, nor do they have to give up on their faith. For others, God is not a priority or they are atheist, so they choose the opposite option.

But yes, gender dysphoria can be caused by many factors that can be resolved by adulthood. The danger now is that they are making "being trans" the cool new thing, so kids are encouraged to take that "easy way out" instead of working through their issues and gaining psychological and spiritual self-knowledge.

Though it's pretty fascinating that you can now choose your sex haha. In some fish species, the female fish can change her sex n become male when there is a lack of males around for example, so it's not all that absurd or "unatural". Boys and girls are also practically the same until puberty hits, so this whole thing is silly in the larger spectrum of life :)

I don't believe that gender reassignment surgery turns someone into the gender they want. It makes them resemble the gender they want. But, for example, a male-to-female trans cannot get pregnant and give birth. They don't fully experience what it is to be a woman, no matter how many surgeries they go through.

As for the fish, it is a sifferent matter since it is a natural capacity they have and no surgery is needed. Furthermore, we cannot compare the psychological implications for humans to that of fish.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
2 things:

- The doctor was not practicing conversion therapy. This is pure propaganda on the part of the trans lobby, in order to discredit him. His methods were outlined in the documentary. And thousands of other doctors signed a petition to protest his firing.

- The documentary was banned because the trans lobby and SJW ideologues want to censor any voice, no matter how credible, that does not fully support their agenda. It is that simple. These people are dangerous for society.

And I'll just make a last point (@joseph_lubnan mentioned this): no one is denying that gender dysphoria is a real psychological condition. But so are schizophrenia, PTSD, depression, and a whole bunch of other conditions. No one in the latter categories is passing laws to force psychologically healthy people to adopt their unhealthy perspective, and calling people bigoted and phobic if they refuse.

I agree on your post as a whole just need to add an addendum to the last sentence; trans people in general, people affected with gender dysphoria in particular are really not forcing people to adopt their "unhealthy perspective", and you cannot limit people to one specific group no matter how vocal.

Second thing is regarding the psychological issues you mentioned and the distinction you made with "psychologically healthy" people .. I get why you made this distinction however since there already is a lot of stigma regarding depression, PTSD, schizophrenia and any other psychological issue, this is certainly not limited to gender dysphoria, I feel like we should refrain from labeling a group of people as "psychologically healthy" because that insinuates that someone else is "psychologically disturbed"
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I agree on your post as a whole just need to add an addendum to the last sentence; trans people in general, people affected with gender dysphoria in particular are really not forcing people to adopt their "unhealthy perspective", and you cannot limit people to one specific group no matter how vocal.

But they are though...the trans lobby I mean...some individual trans people are quite honest about their condition and oppose them.

When you make laws forcing people to change their speech and to recognize 50 genders or risk being prosecuted for hate crimes, you are forcing them to adopt the psychologically flawed trans perspective. It is like forcing people to look at an annorexic and claim that she is the normal weight, because saying she is dangerously underweight would hurt her feelings!

Second thing is regarding the psychological issues you mentioned and the distinction you made with "psychologically healthy" people .. I get why you made this distinction however since there already is a lot of stigma regarding depression, PTSD, schizophrenia and any other psychological issue, this is certainly not limited to gender dysphoria, I feel like we should refrain from labeling a group of people as "psychologically healthy" because that insinuates that someone else is "psychologically disturbed"

I didn't use the word disturbed. I used the words healthy and unhealthy, which are accurate. I am the last person to stigmatize people with psychological conditions. We all know people who suffer from them and most people will suffer from them at one point or another during their lifetime.

There is nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is to act like those are healthy conditions to be in.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
Agree, except the "waste" part. Whether or not someone considers it a waste depends on what they prioritize in life. For example, some people who have homosexual tendencies and who are unable to form relationships with the opposite sex decide to devote their life to God, instead. In that way, they neither have to force themselves to feel things they don't, nor do they have to give up on their faith. For others, God is not a priority or they are atheist, so they choose the opposite option.

But yes, gender dysphoria can be caused by many factors that can be resolved by adulthood. The danger now is that they are making "being trans" the cool new thing, so kids are encouraged to take that "easy way out" instead of working through their issues and gaining psychological and spiritual self-knowledge.



I don't believe that gender reassignment surgery turns someone into the gender they want. It makes them resemble the gender they want. But, for example, a male-to-female trans cannot get pregnant and give birth. They don't fully experience what it is to be a woman, no matter how many surgeries they go through.

As for the fish, it is a sifferent matter since it is a natural capacity they have and no surgery is needed. Furthermore, we cannot compare the psychological implications for humans to that of fish.

Well unfortunately I'm going to have to argue again here! No one is making being transgender the "cool new thing" that's not what is happening here! We agree that children cannot grasp exactly what constitutes a male or female gender identity and I think a lot of the confusion regarding gender at an early age stems from parents projecting their own gender stereotypes onto their children, ie: boys cannot play with Barbies and girls must wear pink lol!

However if a teenager or a grown man believe they are in the wrong body, they are not doing that to be cool, certainly not when transgender individuals have the highest suicide rate in society! Do not confuse asking for tolerance and support with a need to "fit in" or rather stand out as the "cool guy" or girl!
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Well unfortunately I'm going to have to argue again here! No one is making being transgender the "cool new thing" that's not what is happening here! We agree that children cannot grasp exactly what constitutes a male or female gender identity and I think a lot of the confusion regarding gender at an early age stems from parents projecting their own gender stereotypes onto their children, ie: boys cannot play with Barbies and girls must wear pink lol!

However if a teenager or a grown man believe they are in the wrong body, they are not doing that to be cool, certainly not when transgender individuals have the highest suicide rate in society! Do not confuse asking for tolerance and support with a need to "fit in" or rather stand out as the "cool guy" or girl!

They are though! They are teaching kindergarden kids about how normal it is to be trans, and gender-neutral pronouns, etc. This is not normal!

And the more they talk about this stuff the more doctors are getting patients who supposedly have gender dysphoria! A 1 000 % increase in reported cases is not normal!

Neither is the fact that many young adults are adopting trans "looks" as a fashion statement.

Btw, the post-transition and pre-transition suicide rates among transgender people are similar. Transitioning, alone, doesn't solve the issue. So the SJW ideologues politicizing this issue are not doing anyone a favour.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
But they are though...the trans lobby I mean...some individual trans people are quite honest about their condition and oppose them.

When you make laws forcing people to change their speech and to recognize 50 genders or risk being prosecuted for hate crimes, you are forcing them to adopt the psychologically flawed trans perspective. It is like forcing people to look at an annorexic and claim that she is the normal weight, because saying she is dangerously underweight would hurt her feelings!

These laws are about inclusivity rather than forcing people to "adopt the psychologically flawed trans perspective"! And it definitely is not comparable to anorexia acceptance! See this is where I disagree with your insistance on psychological distinctions! People are only allowed to change their sex or rather gender once it is determined that it is in their best interest to do so! This person truly believes he is meant to be in another body, they believe with their entire being that they are not supposed to live their lives as a male... They are not slowly killing themselves by eating as little as one slice of cucumber/day! They are taking hormones many of which for years, getting psychological treatment in most cases, and finally having surgery in order to finally feel comfortable in their own bodies! If we can make their lives a little bit easier by calling them with whichever pronoun they want to be called then it is our duty to do so!
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
These laws are about inclusivity rather than forcing people to "adopt the psychologically flawed trans perspective"! And it definitely is not comparable to anorexia acceptance! See this is where I disagree with your insistance on psychological distinctions! People are only allowed to change their sex or rather gender once it is determined that it is in their best interest to do so! This person truly believes he is meant to be in another body, they believe with their entire being that they are not supposed to live their lives as a male... They are not slowly killing themselves by eating as little as one slice of cucumber/day! They are taking hormones many of which for years, getting psychological treatment in most cases, and finally having surgery in order to finally feel comfortable in their own bodies! If we can make their lives a little bit easier by calling them with whichever pronoun they want to be called then it is our duty to do so!

This is where you are wrong and this is the whole point I'm making. The trans lobby wants to do away with psychologically following someone for years before deciding what's best for them. They want doctors and parents to adopt the "gender affirming" method which consists of going with a child's whims the moment the child says he or she wants to be the other gender.

Not only that, they want people to deny the existence of the male and female genders...and, at the same time, accept that there are 50+ genders!!!
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
They are though! They are teaching kindergarden kids about how normal it is to be trans, and gender-neutral pronouns, etc. This is not normal!

right I think children should know about the existence of such conditions! Odds are at least one will have issues with their gender identity! I also think children should know that the world is not a safe place, strangers should not be trusted, and that they can tell their parents anything they want! I even think parents have a duty to tell their children that it is okay if they are attracted to someone from the opposite sex! There is nothing wrong with explaining to little children that you will love them no matter how they will choose to live their lives in the future and that it is your duty to do so!

And the more they talk about this stuff the more doctors are getting patients who supposedly have gender dysphoria! A 1 000 % increase in reported cases is not normal!

This increase is in people seeking psychological help for their children particularly regarding gender dysphoria! And this is only because people are more accepting today towards transgender individuals and psychology lol! So yeah it's absolutely normal you would get an increase in people seeking help for their children! Not all parents are equipped to deal with gender dysphoria! I would even venture to say that the vast majority is not lol!

Neither is the fact that many young adults are adopting trans "looks" as a fashion statement.

This is absolutely not accurate! The term you are looking for here is not "the trans look" rather androgynous fashion and it's in style because it's inclusive of both genders lol!

Btw, the post-transition and pre-transition suicide rates among transgender people are similar. Transitioning, alone, doesn't solve the issue. So the SJW ideologues politicizing this issue are not doing anyone a favour.

See i dismiss a notion the minute I see the term SJW! I believe this is an inflammatory term used only to dismiss and shut down any and all demands for equality, so yeah I guess I'm done here lol... Gotta say though I am disappointed to see you in particular throwing it around :p
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
If we can make their lives a little bit easier by calling them with whichever pronoun they want to be called then it is our duty to do so!

As for this part, sorry but no. I will not memorize 50+ different pronouns that don't naturally exist in our vocabulary, simply to validate someone's psychologically damaged perception of themselves.

I agree with not harming, criminalizing, or discriminating against trans people. I agree with giving them the medical support they need. But I will nevet agree to have them police people's thoughts and speech, fire respectable people, deny biology, meddle in the way other people raise their children, or force people to submit to their every whim.

They're not the only ones suffering. Different people suffer in different ways. And their suffering does not entitle them to every demand they're making.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
This is where you are wrong and this is the whole point I'm making. The trans lobby wants to do away with psychologically following someone for years before deciding what's best for them. They want doctors and parents to adopt the "gender affirming" method which consists of going with a child's whims the moment the child says he or she wants to be the other gender.

Not only that, they want people to deny the existence of the male and female genders...and, at the same time, accept that there are 50+ genders!!!

The laws that have been passed so far regarding genders only include the inclusion of non binary genders ie: neither male nor female... They are not there to deny the existence of actual male or females lol!

Regarding the gender affirming method, I don't think anyone wants to do away with psychological help! What they are objecting to is telling parents to force their children to behave like their assigned sex, ie: conversion therapy or rather could be as simple as perpetuating gender stereotypes!

See I would not tell my future daughter or son that they are not allowed to play with whatever toy they choose just because of their gender, nor would I tell them to dress a certain way just because I'm uncomfortable with it... Granted they'll have to wear actual clothes made for humans lol but they would get to pick their clothes! At least that's the kind of mother I want to be in the not so distant future lol!
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
right I think children should know about the existence of such conditions! Odds are at least one will have issues with their gender identity! I also think children should know that the world is not a safe place, strangers should not be trusted, and that they can tell their parents anything they want! I even think parents have a duty to tell their children that it is okay if they are attracted to someone from the opposite sex! There is nothing wrong with explaining to little children that you will love them no matter how they will choose to live their lives in the future and that it is your duty to do so!



This increase is in people seeking psychological help for their children particularly regarding gender dysphoria! And this is only because people are more accepting today towards transgender individuals and psychology lol! So yeah it's absolutely normal you would get an increase in people seeking help for their children! Not all parents are equipped to deal with gender dysphoria! I would even venture to say that the vast majority is not lol!



This is absolutely not accurate! The term you are looking for here is not "the trans look" rather androgynous fashion and it's in style because it's inclusive of both genders lol!



See i dismiss a notion the minute I see the term SJW! I believe this is an inflammatory term used only to dismiss and shut down any and all demands for equality, so yeah I guess I'm done here lol... Gotta say though I am disappointed to see you in particular throwing it around :p

I am done here as well. You are obviously not informed as to what is going on. No one is debating about treating trans people humanly. Nor educating people about gender dysphoria. That's a given.

Their demands are way waaaay beyond that, at this point. They have politicized the issue and they are having a toxic influence on society and, especially, children and young adults.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
See I would not tell my future daughter or son that they are not allowed to play with whatever toy they choose just because of their gender, nor would I tell them to dress a certain way just because I'm uncomfortable with it... Granted they'll have to wear actual clothes made for humans lol but they would get to pick their clothes! At least that's the kind of mother I want to be in the not so distant future lol!

Dude, you are making straw man argument after straw man argument. No one is doing or saying the things you claim. Least of all the doctor that got fired.

Did you even watch the documentary in full? Because all the points you're making were refuted already, or were never an issue to begin with.

Please inform yourself better if you wish to continue. I can't keep replying to straw men.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
I am done here as well. You are obviously not informed as to what is going on. No one is debating about treating trans people humanly. Nor educating people about gender dysphoria. That's a given.

Their demands are way waaaay beyond that, at this point. They have politicized the issue and they are having a toxic influence on society and, especially, children and young adults.

You obviously have a bias against transgendered individuals... I have already pointed out how and why I believe this to be the case at least regarding your wording... This is all well and good but do not try to pass off your bias as "concern for society" or a claim that I am "uninformed"
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
Dude, you are making straw man argument after straw man argument. No one is doing or saying the things you claim. Least of all the doctor that got fired.

Did you even watch the documentary in full? Because all the points you're making were refuted already, or were never an issue to begin with.

Please inform yourself better if you wish to continue. I can't keep replying to straw men.

Yeah indie I'm not really interested in flinging insults around!

I did watch your documentary, it's not as ground breaking as you believe it is! Nor is it that damaging to "the all powerful trans lobby who is seeking to destroy society, or rather toxify it lol!"

I'll see ya in another thread where you try to pass off another religious opinion as secular and ground breaking information :)
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You obviously have a bias against transgendered individuals... I have already pointed out how and why I believe this to be the case at least regarding your wording... This is all well and good but do not try to pass off your bias as "concern for society" or a claim that I am "uninformed"

If this is all the logic you can muster up, look for another discussion partner.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
If this is all the logic you can muster up, look for another discussion partner.

How cute! I'm really not surprised to see you resort to insults when your thinly veiled arguments run out!

I have already ended the discussion so yeah if you want my replies to stop, just stop quoting me with nonsense :)
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Someone should tell this trans-woman that she is being transphobic...

 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
Someone should tell this trans-woman that she is being transphobic...


I guess this trans woman did not get the memo sent out by the "all powerful trans lobby" that there are 50 genders! And this transgendered woman has actually said that she is a biological male because she was born a biological male and would die a biological male but rather that she decided to try as best as she can to resemble the opposite sex for her own happiness!

That is what my entire argument with you is about!! The few vocal idiots do not sum up the opinion or the wishes of the majority! Much like males particularly the ones calling for "men's rights" are throwing crazy feminists ranting on YouTube videos in the face of females with actual logical demands to paint the picture that all feminists are men hating lesbians and no one should listen to them... People are painting the picture that the vast majority of transgendered individuals are talking about 50 genders, cisgenders and I don't know what else simply to dismiss the actual validity of someone feeling uncomfortable in their own skin! And this is why I freaking hate the term "leftist" or "SJW"! it has become the easiest way to dismiss an actually valid argument!
 
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