Limiting Terms For All 3 Major National Positions

Do You Agree To The Limit?

  • I Agree

    Votes: 18 94.7%
  • I Don't Agree

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19
Abotareq93

Abotareq93

Legendary Member
Deputees as well should be limited in the number of terms.
France implemented that recently to avoid teshlish...same as moudara 3ammin and all key positions
So, how many terms can a French parliament member have according to the new law?
 
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  • Mrsrx

    Mrsrx

    Somehow a Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    So, how many terms can a French parliament member have according to the new law?
    3 mandates as well as banning having multiple positions like mayor, minister, ....

    edit for correction: 3 consecutive mandates...thats what they were able to pass the intention was 3 in total
     
    dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    To add to the point that this is a great idea, my brother worked with an international operator, a private company.
    And in this company the Cs (CEO, CFO, CTO, ...) can't keep their post for longer than 4 years.

    So if a private company that doesn't need to be democratic finds that it is its own interest to limit terms, than I'm sure for a government it stands much more
     
    SoFP1

    SoFP1

    The Chosen One
    Orange Room Supporter
    Maybe this suggestion should be put to light. Maybe by someone in the new government or "hirak"??
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    In principle, i agree with time limits, as a young person (lol) i would love to see fresh new faces and perspectives. But in terms of how it actually affects corruption when the system doesn't contain institutional safeguards against it, I'm not sure it makes a difference. But am happy to be proven wrong.
    I think this age discrimination proposal should apply to women only :) l7e2na w3am na3mel discrimination ye3ni, fard marra :)
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think this age discrimination proposal should apply to women only :) l7e2na w3am na3mel discrimination ye3ni, fard marra :)
    Idk what you're talking about because women shouldn't be anywhere near government anyway.


    😁
     
    Mrsrx

    Mrsrx

    Somehow a Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    In principle, i agree with time limits, as a young person (lol) i would love to see fresh new faces and perspectives. But in terms of how it actually affects corruption when the system doesn't contain institutional safeguards against it, I'm not sure it makes a difference. But am happy to be proven wrong.
    Well this tend to work hand in hand with the safeguards.
    1)When someone is in the same position for years they start knowing everyone around (because all have been there for years)and feel comfy enough to do shady deals...when every term people are changing trust issues for corrupt deals arise.
    2) This would ensure fresh faces at every round of elections. Doing would make people accustomed to change instead of being scared of it and gives them the courage to vote for new faces and ideas and promotes accountability.
    Inertia sits in if you have the same deputy for the last 35 yrs most people get used to him being there as part of the political never changing ecosystem....

    Most of the effects are psychological and have proven to work almost everywhere in the world...generally when i tell you someone has been president for 30years ....it rings dictatorship in your ears...(berri has been speaker for 30yrs...and other deputies)
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Well this tend to work hand in hand with the safeguards.
    1)When someone is in the same position for years they start knowing everyone around (because all have been there for years)and feel comfy enough to do shady deals...when every term people are changing trust issues for corrupt deals arise.
    2) This would ensure fresh faces at every round of elections. Doing would make people accustomed to change instead of being scared of it and gives them the courage to vote for new faces and ideas and promotes accountability.
    Inertia sits in if you have the same deputy for the last 35 yrs most people get used to him being there as part of the political never changing ecosystem....

    Most of the effects are psychological and have proven to work almost everywhere in the world...generally when i tell you someone has been president for 30years ....it rings dictatorship in your ears...(berri has been speaker for 30yrs...and other deputies)
    Don't discount the ability of newbies to dive right into shady deals if there are no other safeguards in the system against it. There are good examples of this from all over the world.

    I'm mostly just being a stick in the mud contrarian here, because "no term limits ever" is absolutely not a hill I'm willing to die on and I'll be happy if it's instituted. I just don't believe that it is sufficient or necessary for the two things that we theoretically prize in a functioning political system 1) rooting out corruption and 2) instilling fresh perspectives and ideas. And I would not count it at all as a victory if there are not a host of other things that remove incentives for corruption (mainly in the justice sector) and allow for fresh perspectives (mainly by instituting measures for open, transparent, and accountable governance and more competitive elections). Not to mention that new faces who ride in on the wave of old patrons owe their careers to them in a way old veterans don't necessarily, but that is debatable.

    What fresh perspectives have Taimour Joumblatt, Tony Frangieh, and Sami Fatfat brought? They could easily be a product of a system that has term limits in place but nothing else. What needs to be dealt with first is the patronage networks that lead to voters putting the same people, their family, or their minions in office time after time and perpetuates the corruption and incentives for shady dealmaking. I'm of the opinion that without putting cracks in the patronage networks (not something term limits will do) you'll recycle the same crop. Some ways to go about it: independent investigative journalism, independence of the judiciary, inspectors within ministries who issue public reports.

    I fully agree about the inertia point, and if that's the main argument, I can see a reason for terms limits just to keep people/the system shaken up and alert. Though I think the actual effects of that on the voting public are debatable. But I do want to put in a good word for continuity, particularly as you try to move good ideas through parliament. It often takes years to get meaningful legislation passed in parliament (assuming the system otherwise works well) and veteran members can be crucial to pushing it through. You lose some of that continuity with term limits. Sometimes people have consistently good and new ideas to offer in their 10th term, and others are awful reactionaries in their first term. What will we have gained if Nabih Berri is replaced by one of his deputies? By fresh-faced new MP Jamil El Sayyed? I think the inertia in the current system in Lebanon comes from who the people actually are and not the fact that they're old or recycled. Do you think dictator when you hear the words Angela Merkel? ;)
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    unless the gvt holds its meetings in the kitchen 😬
    Yep. It's like I always say: A woman's place is in the kitchen, just hope none of the men doing the real work are still in there when I turn the gas on. :oops:

    disaster-girl.jpg
     
    Mrsrx

    Mrsrx

    Somehow a Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Don't discount the ability of newbies to dive right into shady deals if there are no other safeguards in the system against it. There are good examples of this from all over the world.

    I'm mostly just being a stick in the mud contrarian here, because "no term limits ever" is absolutely not a hill I'm willing to die on and I'll be happy if it's instituted. I just don't believe that it is sufficient or necessary for the two things that we theoretically prize in a functioning political system 1) rooting out corruption and 2) instilling fresh perspectives and ideas. And I would not count it at all as a victory if there are not a host of other things that remove incentives for corruption (mainly in the justice sector) and allow for fresh perspectives (mainly by instituting measures for open, transparent, and accountable governance and more competitive elections). Not to mention that new faces who ride in on the wave of old patrons owe their careers to them in a way old veterans don't necessarily, but that is debatable.

    What fresh perspectives have Taimour Joumblatt, Tony Frangieh, and Sami Fatfat brought? They could easily be a product of a system that has term limits in place but nothing else. What needs to be dealt with first is the patronage networks that lead to voters putting the same people, their family, or their minions in office time after time and perpetuates the corruption and incentives for shady dealmaking. I'm of the opinion that without putting cracks in the patronage networks (not something term limits will do) you'll recycle the same crop. Some ways to go about it: independent investigative journalism, independence of the judiciary, inspectors within ministries who issue public reports.

    I fully agree about the inertia point, and if that's the main argument, I can see a reason for terms limits just to keep people/the system shaken up and alert. Though I think the actual effects of that on the voting public are debatable. But I do want to put in a good word for continuity, particularly as you try to move good ideas through parliament. It often takes years to get meaningful legislation passed in parliament (assuming the system otherwise works well) and veteran members can be crucial to pushing it through. You lose some of that continuity with term limits. Sometimes people have consistently good and new ideas to offer in their 10th term, and others are awful reactionaries in their first term. What will we have gained if Nabih Berri is replaced by one of his deputies? By fresh-faced new MP Jamil El Sayyed? I think the inertia in the current system in Lebanon comes from who the people actually are and not the fact that they're old or recycled. Do you think dictator when you hear the words Angela Merkel? ;)
    Even though i agree with most points you have responded while missing a crucial point in my post. This goes hand in hand with all other safeguards and i will add to it useless without the rest.
    Think of it as one of the safeguards and not the solution.
    A 27 yr old taymour (no idea his age and not the point) would run out of terms at 39 if the 3 terms rules are instilled ...then we try someone else...that someone else being from the jumblat, berri, hariri, ....wtv clan is on the people voting for them. Do not forget the khazens, michel el murrs, hbeichs, ... of the world with the limitation would have died a while ago and their existence might have been impossible ...we can be killing from the source the future clans rather than continuing with a system the clearly adds to the risk. Agreed on the point of merkel...have a better one for you when putin set up medvedev.
    This is one of many things to do and i would say the first is to have an independent judicial system as well as policeforce that is able to enforce that system. I would take that before any other reform but we are discussing ideas here and this is a good one that is applied for our president already and works well ...applied in many other less corrupt countries as well...it is not the reason they are not corrupt but one of the safeguards.
     
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