Living under Al Saud

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  • Picasso

    Picasso

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Saudi Arabia Abolishes Flogging as a Punishment for Crime

    The most high-profile flogging in recent years was of Saudi blogger Raif Badawi who was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes in 2014 on charges of “insulting” Islam.

    BEIRUT, Lebanon — When judges in Saudi Arabia convict someone of a crime, they now have one fewer punishment to hand down. As of this month, they can no longer have people flogged.

    The decision to ban flogging, which the state-run human rights commission confirmed on Saturday, removes one aspect of the kingdom’s justice system that has often generated criticism abroad.

    While Saudi officials hailed the move as a bold reform by the kingdom’s crown prince and de facto ruler, Mohammed bin Salman, Western human rights campaigners gave more muted reactions.

    “I would not call it a breakthrough,” said Adam Coogle, a researcher at Human Rights Watch who tracks Saudi Arabia. “I would call it a positive step.”

    Dampening his enthusiasm, he said, were what he called the many other aspects of the kingdom’s justice system that remain problematic, including the ability to hold people for months without charge, execution by beheading and the lack of a unified penal code.

    “I surely hope he intends to go after the whole justice system, because it is very flawed in both regulations and implementation,” Mr. Coogle said of Prince Mohammed.

    Saudi Arabia is one of the world’s few absolute monarchies and administers justice based on Shariah law. Drinking alcohol is a criminal offense, and drug trafficking often a capital crime. While stoning as a punishment for adultery and the amputation of limbs for theft remain technically on the books, they are rarely, if ever, carried out.

    The lack of a unified penal code gives judges great leeway in sentencing, and flogging was most often part of the punishment for so-called moral crimes such as public drunkenness or what judges deemed to be inappropriate contact between unrelated women and men.

    Some of those offenses are now seen as less grave in Saudi Arabia because of changes pushed through by Prince Mohammed. As part of his plans to diversify the economy and open up society, he has taken the power to arrest away from the kingdom’s religious police and expanded entertainment opportunities by opening movie theaters and bringing in rock concerts, professional wrestling tournaments and monster truck rallies.

    At least in Saudi cities, it is much more common to see women socializing openly with men and not covering their hair or faces than it was a few years ago.

    Saudi officials hailed the flogging ban as part of these changes.

    “This reform is a momentous step forward in Saudi Arabia’s human rights agenda, and merely one of many recent reforms in the kingdom,” Awwad Alawwad, the president of the kingdom’s human rights commission, told Reuters.

    The decision to replace flogging as a punishment with jail time and fines was made sometime this month and announced internally by the kingdom’s top court, Reuters reported.

    Floggings tended to be done with a wooden cane, the swift blows going up and down the backside of the sentenced person. In the past, they were often carried out in public, adding a social stigma to the physical pain inflicted.

    “It is meant to be more of a humiliation,” said Mr. Coogle of Human Rights Watch, adding that he had not heard of reports of injuries.

    Reports of public floggings have grown rare in recent years, either because they were being administered in prisons or not at all.

    The kingdom’s most famous flogging case was that of Raif Badawi, who ran a website that published material criticizing Saudi religious figures, lauding Western legal systems and arguing that atheists should be free to state their views without being punished.

    That angered Saudi conservatives, who denounced him.

    The Saudi authorities arrested Mr. Badawi in 2012 and put him on trial on charges that included cybercrime and disobeying his father. In 2014, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison, fined more than a quarter-million dollars, and ordered to endure 1,000 blows with a cane in weekly installments over several months.

    But a video of the first installment, in front of a mosque in the Red Sea city of Jeddah, set off international outrage and Mr. Badawi was never caned again. While he remains in prison, he has been embraced by some in the West as symbol of the kingdom’s intolerance of freedom of thought and expression. In 2015, he was awarded the European Union’s top human rights award and nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.


    NYTimes

    Iran: Young man flogged 80 times for drinking alcohol as a child

    (...)

    Article 265 of Iran’s Islamic Penal Code states that the punishment for consumption of alcohol by a Muslim is 80 lashes.

    More than 100 “offences” are punishable by flogging under Iranian law. The offences include theft, assault, vandalism, defamation and fraud. They also cover acts that should not be criminalized, such as adultery, intimate relationships between unmarried men and women, “breach of public morals” and consensual same-sex sexual relations.

    In January 2016, the Committee on the Rights of the Child, the UN body that monitors implementation of the Convention on the Rights of the Child by state parties, urged Iran to “immediately repeal all provisions which authorize or condone cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of children”.
    This is actually a religious earthquake. Flogging is embedded in Sharia and an essential part of it.

    Many Islamists spend their lives fighting to implement those punishments since, according to them, they would secure Justice as God ordered, as it has also been enforced upon the Iranians by their oppressive criminal regime.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    This is actually a religious earthquake. Flogging is embedded in Sharia and an essential part of it.

    Many Islamists spend their lives fighting to implement those punishments since, according to them, they would secure Justice as God ordered, as it is also being enforced upon the Iranians by their oppressive criminal regime.
    Can't deny MBS's role in helping modernize the kingdom (although I believe Trump had a lot to do with it).

    It would help if he would stop chainsawing his political rivals though.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    This is actually a religious earthquake. Flogging is embedded in Sharia and an essential part of it.

    Many Islamists spend their lives fighting to implement those punishments since, according to them, they would secure Justice as God ordered, as it has also been enforced upon the Iranians by their oppressive criminal regime.
    Well that's Islam for you, but instead of forcing scholars to revise this evil cult, we are helping normalize it by celebrating Ramadan and promoting the hijab as a symbol of women empowerment.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Tell that to the small very small little hypocrite who is praising Iran and denouncing KSA out of pure sectarian reasons.


    Saudi Society Is Changing. Just Take a Look at These Coffeehouses.

    I am not impressed when such a development is imposed by foreign influences.

    When would head chopping and public executions of headless bodies be abolished? You are clapping for abolition of flogging while head chopping is still ongoing. And dissent is regarded as treason.

    I am not also impressed when a country is trying hard to look western. That is not what freedom means. You can still maintain your culture while you become more humane.

    When it comes to the sharia and punishments, you can always replace harsher methods with more modern methods because the sharia is not holy like the Quran is and sharia is based on interpretation by fallible men.
     
    SeaAb

    SeaAb

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    The thread is about KSA. Off topic posts will be moved to Deep into Islam thread.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    IMHO - Whatever it is, it is still progress in relations between Jews and Arabs.

    "Ramadan TV series about Gulf Jews ignites controversy"

     
    Nevermore

    Nevermore

    New Member
    Saudi Arabia’s austerity drive seen as ‘decisive and necessary,’ but could delay a consumer recovery

    The kingdom will triple value-added tax (a sales tax known as VAT) from 5% to 15% in July, suspend its cost of living allowance for public sector workers, and cut and delay projects part of Vision 2030, the multi-billion dollar initiative aimed at diversifying and reforming the Saudi economy. Total government spending cuts amount to 100 billion riyals ($26.6 billion), or roughly 10% of total expenditure from the original 2020 national budget.

    “Raising VAT when many households are already facing job losses and salary cuts is likely to exacerbate the decline in consumption this year and increase pressure on businesses.”

    MUFG forecasts a fiscal deficit of 15.2% of gross domestic product. The original deficit outlined in the kingdom’s initial 2020 budget was 6.7%, at the time the largest in its history.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Saudi Arabia’s austerity drive seen as ‘decisive and necessary,’ but could delay a consumer recovery

    The kingdom will triple value-added tax (a sales tax known as VAT) from 5% to 15% in July, suspend its cost of living allowance for public sector workers, and cut and delay projects part of Vision 2030, the multi-billion dollar initiative aimed at diversifying and reforming the Saudi economy. Total government spending cuts amount to 100 billion riyals ($26.6 billion), or roughly 10% of total expenditure from the original 2020 national budget.

    “Raising VAT when many households are already facing job losses and salary cuts is likely to exacerbate the decline in consumption this year and increase pressure on businesses.”

    MUFG forecasts a fiscal deficit of 15.2% of gross domestic product. The original deficit outlined in the kingdom’s initial 2020 budget was 6.7%, at the time the largest in its history.
    "cut and delay projects part of Vision 2030"
    I had high hopes for this one.
    It could've been the way for young WB and Gaza Arabs to leave and never come back.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "cut and delay projects part of Vision 2030"
    I had high hopes for this one.
    It could've been the way for young WB and Gaza Arabs to leave and never come back.
    Your job, since Columbus, is to take over lands that dont belong to you and replace, genocide or dispossess the indigenous people. And who says after chasing away the people of Gaza and the WB, you thieves wont follow them to Saudi Arabia or to another planet to dispossess them again?
     
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