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Living Under Shia's (الشيعية السياسيه) Dominance over Lebanon

agnostic

Legendary Member
Your premise is wrong i have been stopped by HA several time be it in the south or dahie entries (2007-2009). Amal aswell and i am not mixing.

If and if you are right about france (which i do not believe that much) they are much smarter in hiding so the regular joes do not feel they are living under dominance.
I have never seen HA armed presence except for guarding, as part of the officially allowed Resistance, some restricted places. And they are (without showing any weapons) at the entries of Dahie only when there are bombing alerts.

Average Joes in France know very well that bowing to the Jewry is good for ones' carrier and not showing enough bowing towards the Jewry is bad for ones' carrier. Do you remember that Syrian-French girl who was eliminated from the voice program only because of her anti-Israeli tweets
 

Mrsrx

Not an expert!
Staff member
I have never seen HA armed presence except for guarding, as part of the officially allowed Resistance, some restricted places. And they are (without showing any weapons) at the entries of Dahie only when there are bombing alerts.

Average Joes in France know very well that bowing to the Jewry is good for ones' carrier and not showing enough bowing towards the Jewry is bad for ones' carrier. Do you remember that Syrian-French girl who was eliminated from the voice program only because of her anti-Israeli tweets
I think you are taking all of this the wrong way.
You are diverting the problem on jews in france and this is not the purpose of the thread.
Neither is shiite dominance the purpose of this thread. And denying the dominance is useless.

This is more about the feeling of some lebanese that feel they are living under shiite dominance. Did you ask yourself why they feel this way? and you if you know that is not true how you can convince them otherwise?
Being stopped at checkpoints and a party making me open the boot of the car and searching it is part of the problem. Rafidi telling everyone "baddo yfekellou ra2betoun" is part of the problem. 7 ayyar is part of the problem. khanda2 guys going to beat the shit out of protesters is part of the problem.

These factors make some lebanese feel that they are dominated and are trying to stand up to this domination.
True or not does not matter but when citizens of your country feel this unease you have 3 choices:

1- Rafidi: badde fekkelkoun ra2betkoun iza bte7ko 3al shi3a ( confirm it)

2- Yourself: it is not true and deny it evere existed. This is better than option 1 but will not change anything about how people feel which is the real problem.

3- try to understand why they are feeling this way and assure them that it is not the case and try working with them to change their minds be more transparent and not deflect about other countries.

It is either real or a problem of perception in both cases it will generate problems for both sides. denying it is what has been done for years but this never changes perceptions.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Being stopped at checkpoints and a party making me open the boot of the car and searching it is part of the problem. Rafidi telling everyone "baddo yfekellou ra2betoun" is part of the problem. 7 ayyar is part of the problem. khanda2 guys going to beat the shit out of protesters is part of the problem.

FPM ignoring this behavior for 15 years is also part of the problem.
 

NewLeb

Member
- @الحج موكي and Zionists abandon their Talmud Great-Cause they have been working for during millenaries, and their aim to rule the whole Mankind, or
- Shias abandon their Faith Great-Cause for what they have been consenting so much sacrifices during 1400 years, and their aim to be the spearhead of the Good in its ultimate battle against the Evil, that all religions including the Jewish religion and also including the Communism promise the outcome of "The Meek shall inherit the Earth"

Oh great, so it’s a choice between two annoying minorities- Jews or Shiites. I’d rather just nuke the whole ME and be done with it....
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
@Mrsrx

I am not diverting the problem.

I insist on my denying that we are not living under a regime of Political Shias comparable to the regime of Political Sunnas at least under Siniora governments and Political Maronite before Taef.

Shias who dare show support to HA have been hunted all over the world, including in countries official Lebanon considers as close friends, like France for example. They have been hit economically by insane decisions from the BDL who chose to follow American dictates even when these decisions break the Lebanese laws and the Lebanese Constitution. Foreign visitors like Macron and Pompeo and foreign ambassadors like the afiha have allowed themselves to bash from inside Lebanon HA and Shias who support HA with no reaction from Lebanese officials to force these foreigners to behave when they are on Lebanon's soil. And when the Judge Mazza7 gave a judgement in favor of Lebanese Shias, he was bashed by the Batrak and sanctioned in an unconstitutional manner (the judge is sovereign in taking his decision) and the safiha received official apologizes. . How can we speak about Shia political domination in such conditions?

Lebanon is now economically suffocated and pressured by the Americans to enter into troubles and clash with HA. Unfortunately the Batrak is playing the American game exciting the Christians and inciting them against HA for the sake of the Americans, while he claims 7ayad. Feeling fears because of nowadays difficulties and stress is another issue. Of course Shias with the strength of HA have less fears than the others. But this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread about Shia political domination.

ADDED: Why nobody speaks about the banks that stole the Lebanese savings to transfer them to western countries?
 
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Mrsrx

Not an expert!
Staff member
@Mrsrx

I am not diverting the problem.

I insist on my denying that we are not living under a regime of Political Shias comparable to the regime of Political Sunnas at least under Siniora governments and Political Maronite before Taef.

Shias who dare show support to HA have been hunted all over the world, including in countries official Lebanon considers as close friends, like France for example. They have been hit economically by insane decisions from the BDL who chose to follow American dictates even when these decisions break the Lebanese laws and the Lebanese Constitution. Foreign visitors like Macron and Pompeo and foreign ambassadors like the afiha have allowed themselves to bash from inside Lebanon HA and Shias who support HA with no reaction from Lebanese officials to force these foreigners to behave when they are on Lebanon's soil. And when the Judge Mazza7 gave a judgement in favor of Lebanese Shias, he was bashed by the Batrak and sanctioned in an unconstitutional manner (the judge is sovereign in taking his decision) and the safiha received official apologizes. . How can we speak about Shia political domination in such conditions?

Lebanon is now economically suffocated and pressured by the Americans to enter into troubles and clash with HA. Unfortunately the Batrak is playing the American game and exciting the Christians and inciting them against HA for the sake of the Americans, while he claims 7ayad. Feeling fears because of nowadays difficulties and stress is another issue. Of course Shias with the strength of HA have less fears than the others. But this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread about Shia political domination.
Even if i agree with some of what you said you are still looking at this the wrong way.
If the perception is domination this will continue and the thread name is about domination and not political domination.
So if you feel dominated you will look for allies to help and that is what the others are doing.
I think the shia parties are falling for the trap of getting cornered getting their weapons out and trying to show power stances which would aggravate their position.
A few recent issues like MoF and khanda2 guys beatings that are the trap.... The calmer side always wins.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
Even if i agree with some of what you said you are still looking at this the wrong way.
If the perception is domination this will continue and the thread name is about domination and not political domination.
So if you feel dominated you will look for allies to help and that is what the others are doing.
I think the shia parties are falling for the trap of getting cornered getting their weapons out and trying to show power stances which would aggravate their position.
A few recent issues like MoF and khanda2 guys beatings that are the trap.... The calmer side always wins.

1. Th etitle speaks about Shi3ia Siyasiya, that's why I said that thread was about political dominance. If it is something else or there are several topics it would have been better to create another or other thread(s) with an accurate title

2. Why is the MoF being with Shia (which you and I already agreed that the issue wasn't clear as per Taef) in our rotten and ambiguous sectarian system is more important for the average Lebanese Christian than the fact that his savings were stolen to be transferred them to western countries? For me it is obvious that the average Lebanese Christian has been manipulated excited and incited against HA and Shia

3. Khanda2 guys entering neighbor-street fights is not worse at all than Rabi3 Zain and other Thuwar receiving money creating troubles , violating the laws and the Lebanese Judiciary receiving foreign pressures to not assure the rule of laws

4. HA and Amal are not the same. They have different goals and different behavior.
 

Mrsrx

Not an expert!
Staff member
1. Th etitle speaks about Shi3ia Siyasiya, that's why I said that thread was about political dominance. If it is something else or there are several topics it would have been better to create another or other thread(s) with an accurate title

2. Why is the MoF being with Shia (which you and I already agreed that the issue wasn't clear as per Taef) in our rotten and ambiguous sectarian system is more important for the average Lebanese Christian than the fact that his savings were stolen to be transferred them to western countries? For me it is obvious that the average Lebanese Christian has been manipulated excited and incited against HA and Shia

3. Khanda2 guys entering neighbor-street fights is not worse at all than Rabi3 Zain and other Thuwar receiving money creating troubles , violating the laws and the Lebanese Judiciary receiving foreign pressures to not assure the rule of laws

4. HA and Amal are not the same. They have different goals and different behavior.
1- shia siyasiya is to diferenciate a random shiite dude from the parties. (this is how i understand it)

2- If the Taef is not clear does not mean who claims it first gets it forever. I would have 0 issues with shiites saying we want the MoF ...but i have a problem with saying it is our perpetual right.

3-Violating laws is the job of the official state services to sort that and not "shabeb el 7ay" who weirdly and spontaneously agree to wear black to seem like an organized force ... (or was it organized by Amal?)

4- I know they are different parties ...HA likes to distance itself from amal yet amal gets a lot of legitimacy by saying they are super close to HA ...so 7tarna unless HA in some cases distances itself from berris behavior and stops covering "thuggery" it is hard to see it this way.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
1- shia siyasiya is to diferenciate a random shiite dude from the parties. (this is how i understand it)

2- If the Taef is not clear does not mean who claims it first gets it forever. I would have 0 issues with shiites saying we want the MoF ...but i have a problem with saying it is our perpetual right.

3-Violating laws is the job of the official state services to sort that and not "shabeb el 7ay" who weirdly and spontaneously agree to wear black to seem like an organized force ... (or was it organized by Amal?)

4- I know they are different parties ...HA likes to distance itself from amal yet amal gets a lot of legitimacy by saying they are super close to HA ...so 7tarna unless HA in some cases distances itself from berris behavior and stops covering "thuggery" it is hard to see it this way.
1. Please change the title. Since Shi3iya Siyasia is used as equivalent to Maronite and Sunni Siyasiya, both being political domination and 2isti2thar of a community over the rest

2. Our current rotten sectarian system is dying and won't live for too long. So speaking about perpetual is void. The Lebanese are divided whether MoF to be for Shia was orally agreed in Taef or not. I am fed up to speak about it.

3. We don't have a Scandinavian country. And the official state services have been ordered to not rule the laws. Would you imagine in France or in any rule of laws countries a group of people shooting directly with automatic weapons against the homes of another sect, in daylight, in front of the cameras and the official state services do nothing, and also all the Christian Lebanese in this forum and friends nobody expressed any bothering about it. And in my first posts, I listes many real facts of mistreatments Shias were victims without the the official state services do anything except to illegally support the outlaws like in the case of the Judge Mazza7 who was sanctioned because his decision gave justice to Shias and HA.

About the role of HA in the street violences, HA is regulating the violence of Shia guys in response to the anti-shia non stop provocations and sometimes violence, like the two Shias persons who died burned alive in front of LA barrage who did nothing to stop the criminal outlaws.

4. HA are not responsible for the rotten system we have, the lax of the official state services and the lack of civil education among all Lebanese not only the Lebanese Shias.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
One last thing dear @Mrsrx

If Lebanese Christians have legitimate fears for the case that the Lebanese State collapses (the Hell that PMA warned about), and therefore are tempted by foreign "Christian" protection, I suggest to our Christian bros to seek such protection from Russia and not from the West that has nothing Xian and that will only use them as tools to fight HA with.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
The state as a regime system is a contract between the Lebanese, all the Lebanese no matter if these Lebanese call for hijab or are against the hijab.

The current sectarian state proved to be unfair and bad. Christians are against changing it or even discussing changing it towards a new contract for a fair and viable regime. We HA can wait until our Christian brothers and all other communities are ready for such discussion.
 
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I think you are taking all of this the wrong way.
You are diverting the problem on jews in france and this is not the purpose of the thread.
Neither is shiite dominance the purpose of this thread. And denying the dominance is useless.

This is more about the feeling of some lebanese that feel they are living under shiite dominance. Did you ask yourself why they feel this way? and you if you know that is not true how you can convince them otherwise?
Being stopped at checkpoints and a party making me open the boot of the car and searching it is part of the problem. Rafidi telling everyone "baddo yfekellou ra2betoun" is part of the problem. 7 ayyar is part of the problem. khanda2 guys going to beat the shit out of protesters is part of the problem.

These factors make some lebanese feel that they are dominated and are trying to stand up to this domination.
True or not does not matter but when citizens of your country feel this unease you have 3 choices:

1- Rafidi: badde fekkelkoun ra2betkoun iza bte7ko 3al shi3a ( confirm it)

2- Yourself: it is not true and deny it evere existed. This is better than option 1 but will not change anything about how people feel which is the real problem.

3- try to understand why they are feeling this way and assure them that it is not the case and try working with them to change their minds be more transparent and not deflect about other countries.

It is either real or a problem of perception in both cases it will generate problems for both sides. denying it is what has been done for years but this never changes perceptions.

Well said.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
FPM ignoring this behavior for 15 years is also part of the problem.
ya FPMer 3ati2, fpm tried to build you a country based on each community’s electoral decision’s respect, in order to move forward. the plan was never to change your compatriots overnight by importing some fresh danish citizens who actually respect laws 😂😂

but who am i to teach you abt fpm’s plsns u already knew that from your long years of activismp
 

The_FPMer

Well-Known Member
ya FPMer 3ati2, fpm tried to build you a country based on each community’s electoral decision’s respect, in order to move forward. the plan was never to change your compatriots overnight by importing some fresh danish citizens who actually respect laws 😂😂

but who am i to teach you abt fpm’s plsns u already knew that from your long years of activismp
No they didn't. They took the side of HA over anything else for more than a decade. Defended their decisions, justified their blunders and covered up their scandals every single time. Antagonized the west and the gulf countries for them, and through their media machine brainwashed their followers that they're the protectors of Lebanon and without them Christians would have been slaughtered like sheep, that the US, Saudi Arabia and the Sunnis are the true cancer and danger to the Lebanese Christians. Many HA mouthpieces bragged for years that "Michel Aoun na2al el masi7iyye lal shar2" meaning pro Syria and Iran and anti US and Israel.

You like Rafidi and others, live in the world of slogans and speeches. Metlak metlo sa7sou7 jeye 3al ra2be. Yours just came earlier than his. I'm sure you won't learn from your mistakes since the intellect is inherited and you're just operating the equipment your parents gave you, but at least make the effort to try.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
No they didn't. They took the side of HA over anything else for more than a decade. Defended their decisions, justified their blunders and covered up their scandals every single time. Antagonized the west and the gulf countries for them, and through their media machine brainwashed their followers that they're the protectors of Lebanon and without them Christians would have been slaughtered like sheep, that the US, Saudi Arabia and the Sunnis are the true cancer and danger to the Lebanese Christians. Many HA mouthpieces bragged for years that "Michel Aoun na2al el masi7iyye lal shar2" meaning pro Syria and Iran and anti US and Israel.

You like Rafidi and others, live in the world of slogans and speeches. Metlak metlo sa7sou7 jeye 3al ra2be. Yours just came earlier than his. I'm sure you won't learn from your mistakes since the intellect is inherited and you're just operating the equipment your parents gave you, but at least make the effort to try.
plus naif tu meurs, the only people living in the world of slogans and sa7asi7 are those who refuse to acknowledge the reality of lebanon and always have a magic instant remedy for every issue there is.
hopefully all the new political parties that came out from the protests with clear magic remedies for both the lebanese economical & societal woes will fix these issues, OH WAI...
 

The_FPMer

Well-Known Member
plus naif tu meurs, the only people living in the world of slogans and sa7asi7 are those who refuse to acknowledge the reality of lebanon and always have a magic instant remedy for every issue there is.
hopefully all the new political parties that came out from the protests with clear magic remedies for both the lebanese economical & societal woes will fix these issues, OH WAI...
I have always voiced by criticism of the protests and refused to call them a revolution, so your generic attempt at humor is silly. Both they and Ahd Kawi slogan lured the people to follow them by claiming that they will somehow change reality for the better and unsurprisingly they didn't. Go back to the 17 october thread and read the hilarious posts of FPMers who claim that PMA emerged victorious and that he, HA and Hariri will create a strong state and a new Lebanon. Don't lecture me about denying reality when you're swimming in that swamp yourself.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
Some personal thoughts:

-Pointing to FPM's understanding/alliance with Hezbollah as the cause for how overpowered they are on the Lebanese stage is fallacious, in my opinion (which is better than your opinion because I use SAT words). The whole notion of a "Christian cover" is massively overstated, and Hezbollah's rise to power was always going to happen regardless. Additionally, Hezbollah has always had support among Christians and, yes, Sunnis.

-This and the MoU, however, are representative of an era which has passed, I think. In the last few years, Hezbollah has gradually sunk itself deeper and deeper into a political quagmire due to two main reasons: 1- their complete unwillingness to fulfill their side of the MoU by joining the fight against corruption and helping to rebuild a state, and 2- their military over-enthusiasm, which has now involved them in a series of foreign wars that have very little to do with the domestic situation other than compromising our own security.

-You could criticize FPM for being "naive" in trusting Hezbollah in the first place (I disagree, and HA weren't the only ones Tayyar tried to build bridges with through the years) or for waiting so long to begin distancing themselves from Hezbollah (this deserves its own thread), but let us not pretend that all our woes originate from Hezbollah alone. Our problem in Lebanon is not only Hezbollah and Iran. It is political Harirism's kleptocracy, Joumblatt's monopolies and feudalism, Berri's baltajiyye empire, Geagea's shameless political whoring, in addition to a wide assortment of corrupt businessmen (Mikati, al Arab, ects), corrupt judges (Ouweidat, Ibrahim, ects), corrupt media (Murr, Khayyat, ects), corrupt law enforcement (Rifi, Qahwaji, ects) and, finally, foreign interests and meddling.

-That is the mafia state. That is the true enemy, here. Hezbollah is only a part of it as they've really done nothing to prove to us the opposite. I heard someone today complain that "they" are turning Lebanon into Iran. This line of thinking is incredibly short-sighted and actively beneficial to the mafia state, and we need to wake up to that.
 
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