Maronite Patriarch calls for ‘active neutrality’ to unite and save Lebanon

Do you support the Neutrality pact proposed by Patriarch al Rahi ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 71.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • Total voters
    31

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Your first question is already on a stupid premise. At face value, I want all weapons, including kitchen knives, to be under state control.

What you first need to ask is this: should the Lebanese government arm the Lebanese military with nuclear warheads? This is the type of question you need to get approval for first. Once you do the necessary and the army is so strong, then Hezballah will tell you they are looking up to you.

You cant put out a question that is sugar coated and asking if your fellow Lebanese should commit suicide or not. That is silly. No one would disagree on all weapons coming under state control. I want that too.

Referendums mostly are based on political decisions. The second question sounds political. But there must be details what this neutrality entails. Would we have UN protection if Israehell chooses to violate our sovereignty? If we are to become a neutral state, like Finland, we would need our neighbors first of all to accept and respect that neutrality and for the world to enforce it. You dont come to preach neutrality when you dont even understand what it means. Neutrality without outside supportz acceptance and enforcement means surrender. And that is what Mr Patriarch is calling for.

'Should the Lebanese government arm the Lebanese military with nuclear warheads'
i don't think anyone would refuse that.
We all want a strong army that is capable of defending the neutrality we're proposing, that's a given.

But what you're missing in your second part interpretation is that our sovereignty is already violated in our current model
My problem with HA is not their arms or missiles
I do not want to get rid of those, quite the contrary, those should be employed in the defense of the state under the command of the Lebanese army.
My problem is the current chain of command, Hezbollah in my eyes is servant to a foreign agenda that does not concern me. An ideological agenda that has nothing to do with my country nor its identity.
You can have this ideology, but you have no right to force the state to support you in your adventures while you meddle in kuwait, venezuala, iraq and Yemen, inviting sanctions and destruction and misery.
We're paying a price for something we did not order.

If there was a Lebanese interest to fight in Syria, so be it.
We can go defend our own interests in Syria while still being Neutral.
But not go and defend Assad and serve his demographic alteration agenda.


All i'm asking from you is to 'PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH'
You don't want others to impose themselves on you, even all we're asking you is to return to Lebanon, yet here you are imposing all your crap on me and deny me the right to object.
This is not going to work.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
'Should the Lebanese government arm the Lebanese military with nuclear warheads'
i don't think anyone would refuse that.
We all want a strong army that is capable of defending the neutrality we're proposing, that's a given.

It doesnt seem like you really know what you want. Your sincerity becomes doubtful. Is it a strong and capable army armed with nuclear warheads that can face Zionist threats? Or is it neutrality that is accepted, and supported and enforced by the international community, including our neighbors?

The only thing you agree on is opposing resistance to Israehell or the resistance.

You have to have in place some sort of capability or defense mechanism to protect the entire country before asking for the only power we have to disappear from the scene. Since since both agree we need to protect the country, then first determine whether it is neutrality with international enforcement you want or a strong capable army that can defend us.

The patriarch made his call fot neutrality. Neither the US nor France has commented on that proposition. They have ignored it. Do you understand why? Because it doesnt seem they would want the international community to protect Lebanon from Naqoora to Akkar and in the process give Israehell slaps. We are in a troublesome environment and with a troublesome and problematic neighbor. Even the major powers would not find it palatable for us to adopt neutrality. So what army or power would Rahi enforce his neutrality with? It isnt enough to tell your enemy you dont want to fight. Your enemy must also decide he will not fight you. How can you accomplish that through neutrality? Neutrality is not just withdrawing from conflict. It needs power to enforce it. Who would enforce our neutrality?

But what you're missing in your second part interpretation is that our sovereignty is already violated in our current model

Our problem is that you do not understand that an enemy wanted to swallow our lands and render us country-less or stateless. You want to give in to the demands of the enemy at all costs, including at the expense of those southerners who would be rendered stateless or living under occupation like the Palestinians. Until your solutions are concrete and applicable, you are not serious in your proposals. We will always go for the options that will protect and defend us and not the options that are agreeable to anyone if those options do not protect and defend us.

My problem with HA is not their arms or missiles
I do not want to get rid of those, quite the contrary, those should be employed in the defense of the state under the command of the Lebanese army.

Let us imagine Samir Geagea represents 90% of Christians, Saad Hariri represents 90% of Sunnis and Ahmad al Assaad or Nadim Qteish represent 90% of Shia (la sama7allah). Do you really expect a strong army under them to defend and protect the South from Israehelli threats?

My problem is the current chain of command, Hezbollah in my eyes is servant to a foreign agenda that does not concern me. An ideological agenda that has nothing to do with my country nor its identity.
You can have this ideology, but you have no right to force the state to support you in your adventures while you meddle in kuwait, venezuala, iraq and Yemen, inviting sanctions and destruction and misery.
We're paying a price for something we did not order.

If there was a Lebanese interest to fight in Syria, so be it.
We can go defend our own interests in Syria while still being Neutral.
But not go and defend Assad and serve his demographic alteration agenda.


All i'm asking from you is to 'PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH'
You don't want others to impose themselves on you, even all we're asking you is to return to Lebanon, yet here you are imposing all your crap on me and deny me the right to object.
This is not going to work.

How does overthrowing Assad support the interests of Lebanon? You should not forget that the opposing camp have also declared war on Assad on sectarian and anti nationalist promises. You also need to see that those telling Hezballah not to interfere in Syria are the ones fighting Assad and hoping that after they're done with Assad they will extend their sectarian war to Lebanon. What would you do under such threat?
 
Last edited:

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
It doesnt seem like you really know what you want. Is it a strong and capable army armed with nuclear warheads that can face Zionist threats? Or is it neutrality that is accepted, and supported and enforced by the international community, including our neighbors?

The only thing you agree on is opposing resistance to Israehell or the resistance.

You have to have in place some sort of capability or defense mechanism to protect the entire country before asking for the only power we have to disappear from the scene. Since since both agree we need to protect the country, then first determine whether it is neutrality with international enforcement you want or a strong capable army that can defend us.

The patriarch made his call fot neutrality. Neither the US nor France has commented on that proposition. They have ignored it. Do you understand why? Because it doesnt seem they would want the international community to protect Lebanon from Naqoora to Akkar and in the process give Israehell slaps. We are in a troublesome environment and with a troublesome and problematic neighbor. Even the major powers would not find it palatable for us to adopt neutrality. So what army or power would Rahi enforce his neutrality with? It isnt enough to tell your enemy you dont want to fight. Your enemy must also decide he will not fight you. How can you accomplish that through neutrality? Neutrality is not just withdrawing from conflict. It needs power to enforce it. Who would enforce our neutrality?



Our problem is that you do not understand that an enemy wanted to swallow our lands and render us country-less or stateless. You want to give in to the demands of the enemy at all costs, including at the expense of those southerners who would be rendered stateless or living under occupation like the Palestinians. Until your solutions are concrete and applicable, you are not serious in your proposals. We will always go for the options that will protect and defend us and not the options that are agreeable to anyone if those options do not protect and defend us.



Let us imagine Samir Geagea represents 90% of Christians, Saad Hariri represents 90% of Sunnis and Ahmad al Assaad or Nadim Qteish represent 90% of Shia (la sama7allah). Do you really expect a strong army under them to defend and protect the South from Israehello threats?



How does overthrowing Assad support the interests of Lebanon? You should not forget that the opposing camp have also declared war on Assad on sectarian and anti nationalist promises. You also need to see that those telling Hezballah not to interfere in Syria are the ones fighting Assad and hoping that after they're done with Assad they will extend their sectarian war to Lebanon. What would you do under such threat?

All of your post is putting words in my mouth and dodging.

It is clear to me what you do not want the current situation to change.
Know this, we will fight you even if we had to partition the country.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
All of your post is putting words in my mouth and dodging.

It is clear to me what you do not want the current situation to change.
Know this, we will fight you even if we had to partition the country.

So we see here who is making threats and wants to fight us. You are threatening to fight us on behalf of foreigners. And you want us to believe you?

I'm asking you pertinent questions.

How do you want to implement neutrality? Will foreign powers, our neighbors and the international community enforce it?

Is it neutrality or a capable army you want?

Apparently, you want us defeated, whether by you fighting us or the enemy fighting us. So we reserve the right to defend ourselves. If at anytime you choose to fight us, you should accept the consequences for your decisions. We are with the weapons and power but we haven't threatened you. You always make the threats. It goes to show what you are capable of doing against your fellow Lebanese and against the interests of the entire country if given the chance or power to. Your intentions are not good.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So we see here who is making threats and wants to fight us. You are threatening to fight us on behalf of foreigners. And you want us to believe you?

I'm asking you pertinent questions.

How do you want to implement neutrality? Will foreign powers, our neighbors and the international community enforce it?

Is it neutrality or a capable army you want?

Apparently, you want us defeated, whether by you fighting us or the enemy fighting us. So we reserve the right to defend ourselves. If at anytime you choose to fight us, you should accept the consequences for your decisions. We are with the weapons and power but we haven't threatened you. You always make the threats. It goes to show what you are capable of doing against your fellow Lebanese and against the interests of the entire country if given the chance or power to. Your intentions are not good.

Listen very well
and let it stick
read your history ya walad

 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Listen very well
and let it stick
read your history ya walad


So your patriarch is threatening us with war?

He can be listened to when he is threatening foreign enemies. Not when he is threatening Lebanese people. When he is threatening me and you are telling me he will bring about our end, then he is an aggressor and he would be treated as such if he acts on the threats.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So your patriarch is threatening us with war?

He can be listened to when he is threatening foreign enemies. Not when he is threatening Lebanese people. When he is threatening me and you are telling me he will bring about our end, then he is an aggressor and he would be treated as such if he acts on the threats.

How stupid or brainwashed or insecure can you be To take his message as a threat.

Read your history ya walad
You want us to sign on another Cairo agreement
Fshart.
 

Weezy

Legendary Member
This sounds childish.

If I am under the threat of invasions and occupations, I will decide to defend myself and get the means from anywhere. I wont wait for your approval. The state that was responsible to defend and protect us did not. There was a state that was resigned from its duties. We dont need to remind you of this every day. You know this.

If you want to fight Turkey's wars in Syria and Libya, you are free to go to Turkey and get trained and get armed and go to Syria and Libya. You already tried it in Syria and failed. Dont try to impress us here that you did not already try that. You did and bodies were returning to Tripoli and Akkar from Syria. Your a s s e s got whooped. Allah did not grant you victory. Allah favoured your enemies with victory. If you choose to go to Libya too, you are free. We will welcome your dead bodies and bury them in your villages after Sisi's army and Egytian allied forces in Libya whip you. Dont forget that the largest Sunni party in Lebanon was taking part in the Syrian war and "sharing Pampers and milk" to terrorists. The same party that reminds us that Rafiq Hariri promoted learning among the youth. One of its MPs had an operation room in Turkey. Your cowardice and losses dont prove your innocence. You are not innocent. You got whooped. And you guys have no reason to whine or cry. You are only complaining or acting victimized as a way to further the war you started against your fellow Lebanese on sectarian grounds and based on foreign tutelage handed over to you. Perhaps, if Rafiq Hariri was alive you guys wont have been used and you wont have strayed away from supporting the resistance and standing by your fellow Lebanese.

you didn’t get the analogy did you :) HA is fighting in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain etc.. why don’t you move your operations to Iran and rid Lebanon from your burden :)

As for Allah granting victory to Bachar l Assad rather than the Syrians, this isn’t an indication of the righteousness of Bachar l Assad. Allah didn’t grant victory to Imam Hussein, and Allah granted Israel a lot of victories in the 20th century :) :) You try to sound smart but it’s not really working for you.

And FM wasn’t sending recruits to fight Assad, FM couldn’t hold Beirut for a couple of days. The Analogy between HA’s involvement in Syria and FM’s is ridiculous.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
you didn’t get the analogy did you :) HA is fighting in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain etc.. why don’t you move your operations to Iran and rid Lebanon from your burden :)

What operations?

Are there planes flying from Beirut to bomb those places, like Saudi planes are bombing Yemenis?

As for Allah granting victory to Bachar l Assad rather than the Syrians, this isn’t an indication of the righteousness of Bachar l Assad. Allah didn’t grant victory to Imam Hussein, and Allah granted Israel a lot of victories in the 20th century :) :) You try to sound smart but it’s not really working for you.

MashaAllah, it shows how highly you regard the Ahlel Bayt. Please remind us why you shouldn't be tagged followers of Banu Umayyah.

Imam Hussein didnt lose a war. You lost a war. You were repeatedly trounced in battle after battle. Imam Hussein was massacred, the same way the terrorists you support in Syria commit massacres. Also, Imam Hussein's legacy is well and alive. His legacy was the victory of blood over sword (terrorism).

And FM wasn’t sending recruits to fight Assad, FM couldn’t hold Beirut for a couple of days. The Analogy between HA’s involvement in Syria and FM’s is ridiculous.

But FM was proving the groundwork. The recruits were leaving "on their own" with the support of FM, whether as individuals or as a party doesnt matter. Your weakness and failure do not prove your innocence.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
How stupid or brainwashed or insecure can you be To take his message as a threat.

Read your history ya walad
You want us to sign on another Cairo agreement
Fshart.

You quoted a post that is issuing threats in the name of the patriarch. How do you want me to interpret that?
 

NewLeb

Active Member
I vote no.

It’s not an issue of neutrality, but rather the overall condition of those groups that have the capacity to fight.

If Hezbollah was a legitimate and professional fighting force, made up of educated and discerning individuals, then it wouldn’t pose that much of a problem.

But the reality is that they’re not. Let’s face it, most (if not all) of their recruits are generic village men from the middle of no where who are only capable at shooting and praying. They all look and talk alike. More so, Hezbollah’s funding mainly comes from a rogue foreign power (Iran), and to a lesser degree drug trafficking, money laundering, etc....

There’s no way you can build and maintain a modern and functioning state with a dominant group like that.
 
Last edited:

Achilles

Active Member
Neutrality is a stupid idea
To be neutral and enforce it you need to be strong.
قوة لبنان بضعفه is BS, you must understand this
No one cares about your neutrality if he thinks he can use you for his own interest and profit and you are weak enough to face him
If the patriarch is an a$$h*le it does not mean we should be too.
you need neutrality ? fine put a plan to arm LA so that it can enforce it

That’s not true. True neutrality is not just a country labelling itself neutral ; true neutrality comes from the international community acknowledging, admitting and recognising the neutral status of another country. It’s the international cover for a neutral status. Switzerland barely larger than Lebanon is recognise by most other countries as a neutral country. Sweden during WWII was a neutral country and was one of the rare countries In Europe not being invaded by germany.

Lebanon becoming a neutral country is Lebanon seeking to get an international Approval and recognition of its neutral status. It’s not just calling yourself neutral.

Anyway Lebanon becoming a neutral country will never happen. Lebanon is a complete failed state, like a boat without a captain drifting randomly on the ocean. Apes in the jungle will Probably someday organise themselves and create neutral societies prior to Lebanon thinking seriously about becoming a neutral state.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
That’s not true. True neutrality is not just a country labelling itself neutral ; true neutrality comes from the international community acknowledging, admitting and recognising the neutral status of another country. It’s the international cover for a neutral status. Switzerland barely larger than Lebanon is recognise by most other countries as a neutral country. Sweden during WWII was a neutral country and was one of the rare countries In Europe not being invaded by germany.

Lebanon becoming a neutral country is Lebanon seeking to get an international Approval and recognition of its neutral status. It’s not just calling yourself neutral.

Anyway Lebanon becoming a neutral country will never happen. Lebanon is a complete failed state, like a boat without a captain drifting randomly on the ocean. Apes in the jungle will Probably someday organise themselves and create neutral societies prior to Lebanon thinking seriously about becoming a neutral state.

Can the patriarch get the UNSC to tag and recognize us a neutral state and protect and defend us in the face of all threats?
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
I vote no.

It’s not an issue of neutrality, but rather the overall condition of those groups that have the capacity to fight.

If Hezbollah was a legitimate and professional fighting force, made up of educated and discerning individuals, then it wouldn’t pose that much of a problem.

But the reality is that they’re not. Let’s face it, most (if not all) of their recruits are generic village men from the middle of no where who are only capable at shooting and praying. They all look and talk alike. More so, Hezbollah’s funding mainly comes from a rogue foreign power (Iran), and to a lesser degree drug trafficking, money laundering, etc....

There’s no way you can build and maintain a modern and functioning state with a dominant group like that.

What are the sources for your claims and of your info? Can you back your claims up?
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
"البطركية المارونية" تدين التطاول على الراعي

أعلنت "المؤسسة البطريركية المارونية العالمية للانماء الشامل" في بيان, أنه "دأب بعض الاقلام والافواه في الآونة الاخيرة على التطاول اعلاميا على سيد بكركي غبطة البطريرك مار بشارة بطرس الراعي، متجاهلة عن عمد او قصد، ما تعنيه بكركي للبنان وما يمثل لبنان لبكركي".

وأضافت: "ما يؤسف له ان هذه الحملة المبرمجة، تغافلت عن سيرة ومسيرة 77 بطريركا، هدفوا منذ البطريرك مار يوحنا مارون، على جبل عرقهم والدم بتراب لبنان، الذي صار ايقونة إيمانية ترى فيها بكركي واتباعها حصن حرية، في ارض تكللت بتعايش ابنائها بسيادة وتعاضد".

وقالت: "اذا كان لا بد من انعاش ذاكرة اولئك الذين لا تعكس اقلامهم والسنتهم الا ارتباطاتهم الخارجية او احلامهم الفئوية، فاننا نحيلهم على البطريرك الياس الحويك الذي اصر على اصطحاب وفد من مختلف العائلات الروحية معه الى مؤتمر "فيرساي"، في وقت كانت تعقد المؤتمرات جنوبا وساحلا رفضا لدولة لبنان، كدليل ايمان بكركي بالعيش المتفاعل لمختلف اللبنانيين في دولة سيادة تصون الحريات وتضمن الازدهار والتقدم".

 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
"البطركية المارونية" تدين التطاول على الراعي

أعلنت "المؤسسة البطريركية المارونية العالمية للانماء الشامل" في بيان, أنه "دأب بعض الاقلام والافواه في الآونة الاخيرة على التطاول اعلاميا على سيد بكركي غبطة البطريرك مار بشارة بطرس الراعي، متجاهلة عن عمد او قصد، ما تعنيه بكركي للبنان وما يمثل لبنان لبكركي".

وأضافت: "ما يؤسف له ان هذه الحملة المبرمجة، تغافلت عن سيرة ومسيرة 77 بطريركا، هدفوا منذ البطريرك مار يوحنا مارون، على جبل عرقهم والدم بتراب لبنان، الذي صار ايقونة إيمانية ترى فيها بكركي واتباعها حصن حرية، في ارض تكللت بتعايش ابنائها بسيادة وتعاضد".

وقالت: "اذا كان لا بد من انعاش ذاكرة اولئك الذين لا تعكس اقلامهم والسنتهم الا ارتباطاتهم الخارجية او احلامهم الفئوية، فاننا نحيلهم على البطريرك الياس الحويك الذي اصر على اصطحاب وفد من مختلف العائلات الروحية معه الى مؤتمر "فيرساي"، في وقت كانت تعقد المؤتمرات جنوبا وساحلا رفضا لدولة لبنان، كدليل ايمان بكركي بالعيش المتفاعل لمختلف اللبنانيين في دولة سيادة تصون الحريات وتضمن الازدهار والتقدم".


Ya3neh baddon ysakto el 3alam. Mamnoo3 7orriyet el ta3beer. Iza hek, Khalleh el Ra3i ydeer balo bi sho2oon dinniyeh w na yetdakkhal bil siyeseh. Lol.
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Ya3neh baddon ysakto el 3alam. Mamnoo3 7orriyet el ta3beer. Iza hek, Khalleh el Ra3i ydeer balo bi sho2oon dinniyeh w na yetdakkhal bil siyeseh. Lol.

Well, it's not freedom when you call him a traitor because he have a different view on Lebanon than yours
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Well, it's not freedom when you call him a traitor because he have a different view on Lebanon than yours

If he promotes a Zionist agenda knowingly and purposefully, traitor w noss. Until we have reason to believe his motives are not detrimental to our right to defend and protect ourselves, we have every right to be doubtful about his motives.

The problem is that they, who are championing the call for neutrality today for whatever motives, dont understand the concept of neutrality. If the UNSC can solve the Palestinian refugee crisis and have all our lands liberated and protect and defend us entirely, I am for neutrality. How can we be neutral when we host hundreds of thousands of refugees and at a point 1/3 of our population was made up of refugees. The problem is not in adopting or wanting a neutral Lebanon. The problem is whether or not our neighbors and the world would defend and protect us and accept and support our neutrality when adopted.
 
Top