• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

Maronite Patriarch calls for ‘active neutrality’ to unite and save Lebanon

Do you support the Neutrality pact proposed by Patriarch al Rahi ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 69.6%
  • No

    Votes: 7 30.4%

  • Total voters
    23
  • Advertisement
  • Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    We wont relent in ensuring your Zionist masters remain deterred, confused and afraid. If we dont have peace and security, do you think you would?
    If you're referring to Israel, she already has peace and security, evidenced by the high quality of life Israeli citizens enjoy.

    If you're referring to the rest of the Lebanese, well, considering they don't currently have peace or security nothing will really change, except your power will be challenged and you will get a reality check.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Well, banners of Shukran Qatar are already hung along the airport road.

    Our fellow Arabs dont despise us. Wahhabis do and not all of them even. Your mission is divide and conquer.

    You are supporting neutrality because you know your existence is on the edge. Any miscalculation, you will have fighters and battles taking place in the streets and villages of occupied Palestine. And you know you are under siege from tens of thousands of precision guarded missiles.

    You wont succeed by threatening us. You have killed our children, occupied our lands and transgress against what is ours. Your arrogance wont help you.

    Do you really think Nasrallah, whose slogans are Qadimoon and Za7fan Za7fan care about your economic sanctions? When someone tells you he intends to liberate the Galilee, do you think sanctions and threat of hunger deters him? Or do you think he was expecting to take over Galilee and then visit the White House and then receive EU aid? Your economic threats are only harming the Zionist tools in Lebanon and their interests. Your military threats wont get you anywhere. You've done a lot of abuses. Now that can never happen without you suffering the same fate.

    If you attack us, we have the right to attack you. We haven't been and we are not the aggressors.

    You want neutrality or whatever, dont abuse or threaten us. The latter wont get you anything but misery henceforth. Also solve the mess of hundreds of thousands of refugees. How can we be neutral when we have hundreds of thousands of refugees in our midst?
    The US, Israel, and Arab Allies are forming a united front against the Iranian enemy and their traitors. العد العكسي للمجوس قد بدأ

    Divide and conquer you say? Nope. You are not Arabs, merely tools of the Persians. Cannon fodder, that is all.

    Can you spare us Al manar 3antariyyat? No one takes you seriously when you say you will be fighting "in the streets and villages of Galilee." It is your ignorance about Israeli society and the Jewish people that makes you believe this stupidity. The only thing Hizbullah ever succeeded in doing was destruction of Lebanon.

    Za7fan za7fan, for sure. That's the only thing the sewer rat can do. Not much clearance you know.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    The US, Israel, and Arab Allies are forming a united front against the Iranian enemy and their traitors. العد العكسي للمجوس قد بدأ

    Divide and conquer you say? Nope. You are not Arabs, merely tools of the Persians. Cannon fodder, that is all.

    Can you spare us Al manar 3antariyyat? No one takes you seriously when you say you will be fighting "in the streets and villages of Galilee." It is your ignorance about Israeli society and the Jewish people that makes you believe this stupidity. The only thing Hizbullah ever succeeded in doing was destruction of Lebanon.

    Za7fan za7fan, for sure. That's the only thing the sewer rat can do. Not much clearance you know.
    All these arguments and name calling ma bi fido shi.

    Talk what is reality. Explain how you intend to apply neutrality. Convince people that you can apply your neutrality and convince the UNSC and major world powers to accept Lebanon's neutrality and protect and defend Lebanon. None of your wars have worked in Lebanon and your threats aret 7akeh. Mish aktar.
     
    V

    Viral

    Active Member
    I think these are just distractions from the real issue in Lebanon, the real reason people are protesting on the streets: Corruption.
    Any memorandum that does not address the issue of corruption is, to me, irrelevant to the direct cause of our crisis. It's an important subject to discuss, but it just isn't our most urgent. The Patriarch's memorandum can be even interpreted as him pointing fingers elsewhere to absolve himself and the church from any investigation once (if ever) forensic audit gains traction and everyone is inspected including religious intitutions. "Look, Lebanon was ok in the past when it was neutral, so the problem today is just in its lack of neutraliry, nothing else!"
    I can't help but remember how vehemently Patriarch Rai defended Riad Salameh when his post was in danger. Since then, the Patriarch does not seem as a "neutral" side in any fight against corruption.

    Because of corruption, a failed state *can* exist even if it were neutral.
    And if it weren't for corruption, the crisis in Lebanon *could* have been avoided even if Lebanon is not "neutral" to his neighbors in the south.

    The number of participants in the 6 June 2020 protests, can be an indicator to how many Lebanese people truly think HA is the reason for our crisis in Lebanon. It was the only advertised protest since 17 October that had a clear anti-resistance demand. The numbers were extremely low and disappointing even to Sami Gemayel.
    Obviously, the problem in Lebanon is not just because of HA's opposition to Israel.
    I would like to know more about the Patriarch's initiatives in fighting corruption.
    I want it explicitly written with clear proactive actions. The church can start by investigating into the bank accounts of its own clergymen, and it could invite/challenge other religious institutions to do the same.
    Only then, I would be supportive of a neutrality memorandum that is proposed by the Patriarch.
    You nailed it!

    Christians like others fall quickly into religious rhetoric and emotional traps by their religious leaders and get distracted away from the pain they are living and the real issue at hand.

    Does Rai really believe Lebanon can be neutral? Is that an option for Lebanon and the Christians?

    Rai’s one and only worry is not the people’s best interest in Lebanon. His worry is “forensic audit” that will put him on the same list as Berri, Jumblatt, Hariri, and Geagea.

    Wait until the public discovers how Salameh manages Rai and his predecessor’s the Saudi money and the looted LF arms sales by Samir Geagea.

    Rai is in serious trouble like the rest of the thieves and corrupt because forensic audit is unstoppable. It’s progressing slowly but surely not only because GMA (that Rai is working so viciously against) but because the International community is finally insisting on liberating Lebanon from its deadly disease called corruption.



    I want to ask Rai about his position when Hezbollah liberated the Christian nuns in Syria Maaloula from ISIS and Al-Nusra terrorists.

    Did this hypocrite lift a finger to help his fellow Christians in Syria?

    Would he be safe from the Islamists if Lebanon with its Army and resistance had remained neutral? He makes it sound as if Lebanon is the one attacking and invading others…

    Neutrality means allowing the strong to demolish the weak without resistance or interference to defend the basic human rights. That’s what Rai wants because that’s what Rai himself does to his own people and community.

    His desperation to save his ass brought him to sponsor the good old Zionist program and sing their tune. No wonder why the Zionist trolls are running the show on this thread and the naïve Christians not realizing they’ve been had.



    How can anyone ignore this recent history…

     
    V

    Viral

    Active Member
    I think these are just distractions from the real issue in Lebanon, the real reason people are protesting on the streets: Corruption.
    Any memorandum that does not address the issue of corruption is, to me, irrelevant to the direct cause of our crisis. It's an important subject to discuss, but it just isn't our most urgent. The Patriarch's memorandum can be even interpreted as him pointing fingers elsewhere to absolve himself and the church from any investigation once (if ever) forensic audit gains traction and everyone is inspected including religious intitutions. "Look, Lebanon was ok in the past when it was neutral, so the problem today is just in its lack of neutraliry, nothing else!"
    I can't help but remember how vehemently Patriarch Rai defended Riad Salameh when his post was in danger. Since then, the Patriarch does not seem as a "neutral" side in any fight against corruption.

    Because of corruption, a failed state *can* exist even if it were neutral.
    And if it weren't for corruption, the crisis in Lebanon *could* have been avoided even if Lebanon is not "neutral" to his neighbors in the south.

    The number of participants in the 6 June 2020 protests, can be an indicator to how many Lebanese people truly think HA is the reason for our crisis in Lebanon. It was the only advertised protest since 17 October that had a clear anti-resistance demand. The numbers were extremely low and disappointing even to Sami Gemayel.
    Obviously, the problem in Lebanon is not just because of HA's opposition to Israel.
    I would like to know more about the Patriarch's initiatives in fighting corruption.
    I want it explicitly written with clear proactive actions. The church can start by investigating into the bank accounts of its own clergymen, and it could invite/challenge other religious institutions to do the same.
    Only then, I would be supportive of a neutrality memorandum that is proposed by the Patriarch.
    I must confess I initially replied to your post after reading the first sentence without finishing it since I felt you really nailed it with your first thought!
    Then I read the rest of your post after posting mine and was pleasantly surprise how close our assessments were to each other.
    And the reason I'm reposting now is simply to express my disappointment by the lack of reactions to your post which I consider the one with the most subspace on the entire thread. It is sad how people get attracted and distracted so easily with sugary coated poisonous pills from the Candyman and keep on dizzily turning in circles without fixing their problems or making a minimal effort to get out of their hole by simply getting over their sectarian mentalities and breaking the chains that their religious leaders are steering them with.
    Yet I'm not losing hope...
     
    V

    Viral

    Active Member
    "Maronite Patriarch calls for ‘active neutrality’ to unite and save Lebanon"

    Such ridiculous statement...
    Save Lebanon from whom and what?

    From those invading, occupying and stealing its wealth?...

    From those destroying its economy, blockading its people, starving them and depriving them from their own deposited money in their bank accounts?

    From those preaching hatred among its equal citizens to divide its society and promote civil unrest?


    Or may be to save the corrupt so Mr. Rai can stay hidden in the shadows…
     
    J

    Joe Lebanon

    New Member
    I am not ashamed of our relationship or my community's relationship with Iran. It is a source of pride. Iran is the pride of every free and honorable Shia. If you detest that for sectarian considerations, that is your heartache. You can interpret that relationship to mean whatever. It doesnt bother me the least. I am proud of Iran. You can bark and call names and insult as you like. My village is in South Lebanon. Come to my village and ask me to leave if I am not Lebanese.
    If the Shia love Iran so much and look up to it why aren’t there any Shias that immigrate to Iran? You see them going to the US, Canada, Australia and Europe but not Iran. Interesting, no?
     
    J

    Joe Lebanon

    New Member
    So far, you have failed to answer my questions. When you realised you weren't making sense, you resorted to threats and that you will fight us. Fight us for what and on whose behalf? And to what end? Did we crucify Jesus for you to fight us?

    Explain how you intend to have the UNSC adopt Lebanon's neutrakity and protect and defend us.
    Wik declaring neutrality doesn’t mean disbanding our army! It means we don’t get involved in regional conflicts. If anyone were to mess with us we have every right to defend ourselves. I don’t think you’re grasping the concept of neutrality.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Well, banners of Shukran Qatar are already hung along the airport road.

    Our fellow Arabs dont despise us. Wahhabis do and not all of them even. Your mission is divide and conquer.
    That’s not true. Hezbollah was once an organization that was admired all over the Middle East. Now everybody hates you guys. Go to Persia and leave us all alone. K thx.
     
    Last edited:
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    If the Shia love Iran so much and look up to it why aren’t there any Shias that immigrate to Iran? You see them going to the US, Canada, Australia and Europe but not Iran. Interesting, no?
    Interestingly, a Shiite friend of mine inquired me today about getting into America on a visa. I informed him that it was very difficult under the current administration, to which he responded by lambasting Mr. Trump. He can’t help but wonder how Trump could possibly win again when everybody (at least according to him) hates the guy.

    People like him are the reason why Trump won in the first place! :banghead::banghead:
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    You nailed it!

    Christians like others fall quickly into religious rhetoric and emotional traps by their religious leaders and get distracted away from the pain they are living and the real issue at hand.

    Does Rai really believe Lebanon can be neutral? Is that an option for Lebanon and the Christians?

    Rai’s one and only worry is not the people’s best interest in Lebanon. His worry is “forensic audit” that will put him on the same list as Berri, Jumblatt, Hariri, and Geagea.

    Wait until the public discovers how Salameh manages Rai and his predecessor’s the Saudi money and the looted LF arms sales by Samir Geagea.

    Rai is in serious trouble like the rest of the thieves and corrupt because forensic audit is unstoppable. It’s progressing slowly but surely not only because GMA (that Rai is working so viciously against) but because the International community is finally insisting on liberating Lebanon from its deadly disease called corruption.



    I want to ask Rai about his position when Hezbollah liberated the Christian nuns in Syria Maaloula from ISIS and Al-Nusra terrorists.

    Did this hypocrite lift a finger to help his fellow Christians in Syria?

    Would he be safe from the Islamists if Lebanon with its Army and resistance had remained neutral? He makes it sound as if Lebanon is the one attacking and invading others…

    Neutrality means allowing the strong to demolish the weak without resistance or interference to defend the basic human rights. That’s what Rai wants because that’s what Rai himself does to his own people and community.

    His desperation to save his ass brought him to sponsor the good old Zionist program and sing their tune. No wonder why the Zionist trolls are running the show on this thread and the naïve Christians not realizing they’ve been had.



    How can anyone ignore this recent history…

    Oh, wow, they liberated some nuns from Syria! I’m sure that will help the rapidly declining Christian population in Lebanon.... :banghead:
     
    Jacques Hirac

    Jacques Hirac

    New Member
    I must confess I initially replied to your post after reading the first sentence without finishing it since I felt you really nailed it with your first thought!
    Then I read the rest of your post after posting mine and was pleasantly surprise how close our assessments were to each other.
    And the reason I'm reposting now is simply to express my disappointment by the lack of reactions to your post which I consider the one with the most subspace on the entire thread. It is sad how people get attracted and distracted so easily with sugary coated poisonous pills from the Candyman and keep on dizzily turning in circles without fixing their problems or making a minimal effort to get out of their hole by simply getting over their sectarian mentalities and breaking the chains that their religious leaders are steering them with.
    Yet I'm not losing hope...
    It feels like we are always pushed into discussing secondary subjects at every turn of events. To every problem in Lebanon, there seems to be two kinds of approaches: one is cold, logical, proactive and straight to the point, the other is emotional, whimsical, reactive and unfocused.
    At every turn of event, the Lebanese people rush towards the second approach, and I don't think that is coincidental.
    I am not sure how it all started, we might have always been that way, or we might have been corrupted at some point in history. What I am sure of now is that this tendency to see everything emotionally is extremely leveraged upon by our politicians and by the media today. That is why you would see a lot of people resonate with whoever uses sectarianism or populism to tap into their emotions. Those same people would blindly reject anyone who comes with a logical plan or straight forward solution, they describe it themselves with "he is detached from reality, he is not feeling what the people are feeling". As a result, no matter how right they are in mistrusting this or that politician, they are made to always run in circles and fight the wrong battles.

    That being said, to return to the subject of the thread, if the Patriarch's memorandum is to be taken as a serious plan or as a serious opportunity to get Lebanon back on the right track, it needs to acknowledge the real threats this country is facing and propose solutions to those. Taking a "neutrality stance" to please the international community and turning a blind eye on all the violations happening on our soil is by no means a solution or a plan.

    Regarding the one area where our posts kind of diverge, I would personally try my best to avoid attacking the Patriarch's person and accusing him of Zionism. Not because I think he's a great man, but because doing so would also encourage any discussion to take a sectarian and emotional twist, and people would again and again miss the point. Regardless of what agenda he is (or he thinks he is) inacting, I don't think he is qualified to come up with a political solution, it's not his expertise and it's not his role.
    It is no secret that Lebanese people are sensitive to sectarian tensions. It is no secret that the country is struggling to keep itself out of civil war. What I expect of the Patriarch is to be aware of those risks and to do his best to avoid having his words used for the sake of sectarian strife.
     
    V

    Viral

    Active Member
    It feels like we are always pushed into discussing secondary subjects at every turn of events. To every problem in Lebanon, there seems to be two kinds of approaches: one is cold, logical, proactive and straight to the point, the other is emotional, whimsical, reactive and unfocused.
    At every turn of event, the Lebanese people rush towards the second approach, and I don't think that is coincidental.
    I am not sure how it all started, we might have always been that way, or we might have been corrupted at some point in history. What I am sure of now is that this tendency to see everything emotionally is extremely leveraged upon by our politicians and by the media today. That is why you would see a lot of people resonate with whoever uses sectarianism or populism to tap into their emotions. Those same people would blindly reject anyone who comes with a logical plan or straight forward solution, they describe it themselves with "he is detached from reality, he is not feeling what the people are feeling". As a result, no matter how right they are in mistrusting this or that politician, they are made to always run in circles and fight the wrong battles.

    That being said, to return to the subject of the thread, if the Patriarch's memorandum is to be taken as a serious plan or as a serious opportunity to get Lebanon back on the right track, it needs to acknowledge the real threats this country is facing and propose solutions to those. Taking a "neutrality stance" to please the international community and turning a blind eye on all the violations happening on our soil is by no means a solution or a plan.

    Regarding the one area where our posts kind of diverge, I would personally try my best to avoid attacking the Patriarch's person and accusing him of Zionism. Not because I think he's a great man, but because doing so would also encourage any discussion to take a sectarian and emotional twist, and people would again and again miss the point. Regardless of what agenda he is (or he thinks he is) inacting, I don't think he is qualified to come up with a political solution, it's not his expertise and it's not his role.
    It is no secret that Lebanese people are sensitive to sectarian tensions. It is no secret that the country is struggling to keep itself out of civil war. What I expect of the Patriarch is to be aware of those risks and to do his best to avoid having his words used for the sake of sectarian strife.
    I fully agree with your assessment. As far as attacking Rai, I take such liberty only because I happened to belong to his Church otherwise I wouldn’t do it and I would be the first one to oppose those from other sects if they try taking advantage of the situation with a sectarian attitude. By attacking my own religious leadership, I’m actually sending a message to encourage everyone else from other sects doing the same when their religious leaders mess up because I don’t want to be the outsider one getting involved in sensitive matters that can easily turn sectarian therefore counterproductive.

    I have one objective which it liberating our society from its sectarian captivities.

    If you haven’t had the chance watching Charbel Khalil you should. He basically agreed with our approach and attitude toward Rai on the subject.

     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    If the Shia love Iran so much and look up to it why aren’t there any Shias that immigrate to Iran? You see them going to the US, Canada, Australia and Europe but not Iran. Interesting, no?
    Iran has enough issues. Iran is like a one man army. And the entire world is hanging up against Iran for its political views, thanks to US pressure. If there were opportunities in Iran and less burden on Iran, we would go to Iran. It is all about opportunities.

    Also, not all of us are migrating to the West. Many go to Latin America, Africa and even Asia and other Middle Eastern countries. So it is all about opportunities. We, as a people, regardless of sectarian or political affiliation/influence want to work and live a dignified life. We arent fighting and crying because we love to die. We want to live in peace and security and in dignity.

    I am of the opinion that the West should offer no financial aid to the ruling class or to the government of Lebanon. If they are truly the friends of the Lebanese people and they dont intend to harm or hurt us, then they should find solution for the people and break the grip politicians have on us as people. The people cant be the victims in the middle of political tussles. Otherwise, if they put economic pressure and the people suffer the consequences, we would naturally side with our country and govt and see whoever is causing the people harm, whether internally or externally as an enemy. Whatever help that they want to offer should go to the people directly or indirectly, whether through supervised projects or through whatever form of aid.

    Our elite are arrogant and have a high sense of entitlement in milking the people. They are holding the people to ransom. The greatest help and love and respect the West can show to the Lebanese people is to offer us visa free travel and work opportunities to their countries. We are a hard working people and we do love life and want to succeed, prosper and live a good life. Our politicians divide state jobs among themselves and offer these jobs to their party loyalists for peanuts. These same party loyalists are turned into foot soldiers and sent to the streets to block roads and burn tyres in times of crisis and political deadlock. The greatest slap these leaders could receive is to weaken their grip over the Lebanese people by giving opportunities and free movement to the people to work abroad. Every serious minded and educated Lebanese is still in Lebanon because they lack the opportunities to leave. The EU grants Turkey a country of over 80 million, visa free travel for Turks. The EU and other western countries in need of labor like Canada and Australia can offer Lebanon, a country of 4 million visa free travel and work permit. Even if not for every Lebanese, at least to those with a university degree or with vocational training and years of work experience. No amount of aid to our rulers will let them provide us with good paying jobs in Lebanon based on merits. Any job they provide people they expect some political leverage in return to enable them monopolize power for their entire lifespan. Their main resource is the Lebanese people who they are holding to ransom and exploiting.

    So as a people, we look for opportunities abroad irrespective of east or west. If today North korea can provide economic opportunities, be sure that the Lebanese will among the first people to migrate to North Korea. We just want to live a dignified life.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Wik declaring neutrality doesn’t mean disbanding our army! It means we don’t get involved in regional conflicts. If anyone were to mess with us we have every right to defend ourselves. I don’t think you’re grasping the concept of neutrality.
    Such neutrality is one sided. It is not a guaranty that others wont interfere with us. That isnt the neutrality we should ask for. That isnt even neutrality. It is more or less waving the white flag. Neutrality is different from disengagement. For us to hahe neutrality, it must be accepted and enforced by the major powers. Neutrality should come with protection for us and defense.
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member
    i support partially the patriarch position.. the swiss .model is an option. a confederation and a strong army.
    lebanon need a break from the regional conflicts in order to rebuilt the country..
    the alternative is to be a tool for the regional powers and a place for those same powers to score points against eachother using the lebanese blood.
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    7atta akher noqtet dam fi 3oroqina...

    Met7emsen kteer mbayyen. 3a mahel ya ak*r*t. Shu hal 7iyed el balloot yalli badkon iza neweyen tsa2to dam? Kermel 3yoon min?
    we believe in a Lebanon that is open to all countries and cultures
    A country where everyone regardless of their religion, political beliefs or orientations can leave in peace and freedom.
    This the model that Bkerki is defending.

    whoever decides to come and imposes his culture on us
    or tries to change that image that we chose for ourselves will be fought.. with immense ferocity.
     
    Top