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Myanmar wants ethnic cleansing of Rohingya - UN official

Indie

Indie

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I'm answering Christians. They always discredit Mohamed due to his use of violence. But he was no different than other prophets who sometimes resorted to violence. I don't see Christians taking issues with Moses, David, or saints like Jeanne d'Arc.

Oh no...he was very different...

Moses, Jeanne D'Arc, etc. were defending themselves against enslavement and conquest.

Mohammad was an enslavor and conquerer.
 
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  • Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    The argument that Mohammad never used violence, except for self-defense, is very often used; however, it has two major flaws.

    First, every time Mohammad wanted to impose his ways, and people (obviously and legitimately) refused to acknowledge him as a prophet and fought back, he considered this as an attack on him and used the self-defense excuse. Contrast this with Jesus who let himself be crucified, rather than impose his ways by force...and taught his followers to spread love rather than to avenge him.

    Second, self-defense is a proportionate reaction to an immediate threat. Gathering power for years, then going back and looting, enslaving, subjugating, and killing those who stood in your way (or those who refused to help you implement your agenda), at some point in the past, is not considered self-defense. It's considered revenge. It's an excuse to hurt and profit from those who did not submit to your narcissistic ego.
    I'll have to read more about the subject in order to verify your claims. I don't really like to delve into the lives of Mythological figures like Mohamed and Jesus.

    But as far as I know, Mohamed never "waged" political wars. He tried to spread Islam peacefully but was violently opposed and forced out of Mecca with his tribe. Any ensuing violence was merely in self defense.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    I'll have to read more about the subject in order to verify your claims. I don't really like to delve into the lives of Mythological figures like Mohamed and Jesus.

    But as far as I know, Mohamed never "waged" political wars. He tried to spread Islam peacefully but was violently opposed and forced out of Mecca with his tribe. Any ensuing violence was merely in self defense.
    You should definitely look into it :)

    You cannot try to "spread a religion peacefully" then resort to violence. It's an oxymoron. Of course he would be opposed! Anyone who tries to challenge the established rule will be opposed! Anyone who calls himself a prophet will be doubted and derided! But if he is truly commited to peace, he will continue his work through peace.

    lol...It is easy to claim to be peaceful when everyone believes you, lets you implement your agenda, and does as you command. The real test is to stay peaceful in difficult conditions.
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    I'll have to read more about the subject in order to verify your claims. I don't really like to delve into the lives of Mythological figures like Mohamed and Jesus.

    But as far as I know, Mohamed never "waged" political wars. He tried to spread Islam peacefully but was violently opposed and forced out of Mecca with his tribe. Any ensuing violence was merely in self defense.
    Defending Mohammed conquests and claims to be neutral.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    Defending Mohammed conquests and claims to be neutral.
    I'm not defending him. I said that it is common knowledge that Mohamed only fought in self defense. If you have some newly found evidence that proves otherwise please feel free to share it with us.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    You should definitely look into it :)

    You cannot try to "spread a religion peacefully" then resort to violence. It's an oxymoron. Of course he would be opposed! Anyone who tries to challenge the established rule will be opposed! Anyone who calls himself a prophet will be doubted and derided! But if he is truly commited to peace, he will continue his work through peace.

    lol...It is easy to claim to be peaceful when everyone believes you, lets you implement your agenda, and does as you command. The real test is to stay peaceful in difficult conditions.
    He had no magical superpowers like Jesus. He couldn't raise from the dead so he had to fight for his life.;)

    *Disclaimer: anything I say reflects my own limited knowledge of Islam and is not backed by Al-Azhar.
     
    JB81

    JB81

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    I'm not defending him. I said that it is common knowledge that Mohamed only fought in self defense. If you have some newly found evidence that proves otherwise please feel free to share it with us.
    Sure it was self defense when he slaughtered Jewish tribes, killed all their men, children ; and took women sabeya and slaves. Sounds like an act self defense. Doesn't it?
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    Sure it was self defense when he slaughtered Jewish tribes, killed all their men, children ; and took women sabeya and slaves. Sounds like an act self defense. Doesn't it?
    I think you're referring to the Banu Qurayza massacre. The historicity of this event has been put into question.
     
    JB81

    JB81

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    I think you're referring to the Banu Qurayza massacre. The historicity of this event has been put into question.
    Of course, because Mohammed didn't do it. ISIS is taking Sabeya and slaves according to Buddhist teachings.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    Of course, because Mohammed didn't do it. ISIS is taking Sabeya and slaves according to Buddhist teachings.
    Are 99% of Muslims taking female captives and slaves?

    Are the Buddhists beheading Roghinya children acting in accordance with their Buddhist teachings?

    In any case, the judge who ordered the execution of Banu Qurayza was acting according to Torah laws. So if anything, this indicts Judaism more than Islam. Your attempts to single out Islam as a violent religion aren't working.
     
    Genius

    Genius

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    Are 99% of Muslims taking female captives and slaves?

    Are the Buddhists beheading Roghinya children acting in accordance with their Buddhist teachings?

    In any case, the judge who ordered the execution of Banu Qurayza was acting according to Torah laws. So if anything, this indicts Judaism more than Islam. Your attempts to single out Islam as a violent religion aren't working.
    So the Torah which is the book of law of the Jews only, ordered the Muslims to execute all the Jews? Can't be true.

    The extermination was according to Islam.
    Banu quraiza are mentioned in the Quran. I will let you figure out which verses.
     
    Picasso

    Picasso

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    No guilt whatsoever :)

    I'm sure you, like most people, have some redeeming qualities; but, my dear, you shamelessly lie. That is an irrefutable, established fact.

    Unlike you, who throws nonsensical insults, in anger, and without any evidence, I actually can back my claims.

    Here is you hating Christians and implicitly threatening, and gloating at, their extinction from the Middle East.

    Deep Into Christianity | Page 454 | The Orange Room - Lebanon's number one discussion forums

    I will continue to link to the above post, for as long as you continue lying.
    Not only a liar but also rudely doing so. Continue reading, you were caught lying in that very page and then resorted to a vague excuse of "paraphrasing" when you couldn't back up your quoted sentence with evidence.

    Now you're trying to project it on me so could delude yourself by the act of repetition that I am the liar not you. Re-read that page, you're trying now to imagine it's the opposite way, facts are not going to change however you use assertive words like "irrefutable, established fact", which is, by the way, one of the liar's ways to change reality in your own mind! Shame on you, you have no honor!
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    So the Torah which is the book of law of the Jews only, ordered the Muslims to execute all the Jews? Can't be true.

    The extermination was according to Islam.
    Banu quraiza are mentioned in the Quran. I will let you figure out which verses.

    Mohamed gave them the choice to choose their arbitrator, who conducted his ruling according to laws of Torah. Since they were Jews, he applied to them their own Biblical law.

    Anyway, this event was never mentioned in the Qur'an, and its veracity is highly questionable.
     
    Genius

    Genius

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    Mohamed gave them the choice to choose their arbitrator, who conducted his ruling according to laws of Torah. Since they were Jews, he applied to them their own Biblical law.

    Anyway, this event was never mentioned in the Qur'an, and its veracity is highly questionable.
    According to which biblical law?
    Can you please point it to us?


    The event is mentioned in the Quran according to the tafsirs . Unless you have more credibility than the Quran experts.

    In this dangerous logic, anyone can commit extermination against any community and claim the law of this community is applied.
    The Myanmar case for example. You see how funny this argument becomes. The Buddhists are applying the Islamic law against invasions.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    According to which biblical law?
    Can you please point it to us?


    The event is mentioned in the Quran according to the tafsirs . Unless you have more credibility than the Quran experts.

    In this dangerous logic, anyone can commit extermination against any community and claim the law of this community is applied.
    The Myanmar case for example. You see how funny this argument becomes. The Buddhists are applying the Islamic law against invasions.
    Did I say I approve of such acts?
    I said historicity of the Banu Qurayza is questionable and I'm sure most Muslims wouldn't approve of it.

    There's a Sura in the Quran which some people believe is a reference to this specific incident, but it's debatable.
     
    Genius

    Genius

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    Did I say I approve of such acts?
    I said historicity of the Banu Qurayza is questionable and I'm sure most Muslims wouldn't approve of it.

    There's a Sura in the Quran which some people believe is a reference to this specific incident, but it's debatable.
    Which biblical law Mohammed applied in his genocides.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    Which biblical law Mohammed applied in his genocides.
    What genocides? Care to elaborate

    As you probably know, I'm an atheist, and according to Sharia law, I should be sentenced to death.

    So I'm not here to defend Islam, but rather to dispel the myth that Islam is more inherently violent than other religions.
     
    Genius

    Genius

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    What genocides? Care to elaborate

    As you probably know, I'm an atheist, and according to Sharia law, I should be sentenced to death.

    So I'm not here to defend Islam, but rather to dispel the myth that Islam is more inherently violent than other religions.
    Well that seems quite violent ;)
    Congratulations and be careful.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

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    What genocides? Care to elaborate

    As you probably know, I'm an atheist, and according to Sharia law, I should be sentenced to death.

    So I'm not here to defend Islam, but rather to dispel the myth that Islam is more inherently violent than other religions.
    you were asked a simple question.

    you said muhammad applied biblical laws on banu quraiza, what laws are those? cite them.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

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    you were asked a simple question.

    you said muhammad applied biblical laws on banu quraiza, what laws are those? cite them.
    Deuteronomy 20:10-18King James Version (KJV)
    10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

    11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

    12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

    13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

    14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

    15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

    16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

    17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

    18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.
     
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