Naturalisation under PMA

Naturalisation decrees by This MA

  • Positive if it concerned Lebanese Immigrants

    Votes: 14 63.6%
  • Negative if it concerns Lebanese Immigrants

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Positive if it’s given to certain qualified people

    Votes: 15 68.2%
  • Negative should not be given until the end of the President Term

    Votes: 2 9.1%

  • Total voters
    22

LVV

Well-Known Member
#1
PMA said that several decrees to naturalize Lebanese Immigrants plus persons who deserved it in Lebanon will be issued.
Nothing wrong in that.
 
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  • Skunk

    Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #2
    Just dropping those here


    مرسوم التجنيس... تهويل لضرب العهد

    "ليبانون ديبايت" - ريتا الجمّال:

    منذ بدء الحرب السوريّة، ولجوء أكثر من مليون ونصف مليون "نازح" سوريّ الى داخل الأراضي اللبنانيّة، وقضيّة التوطين لا تفارق عناوين السياسة اللبنانيّة بعد تجربة فلسطينيّة "تُبرّر" المخاوف من تكرار المشهد نفسه بانعكاساته السلبيّة ديموغرافيّاً، اقتصاديّاً، سياسيّاً، أمنيّاً، اجتماعيّاً ومعيشيّاً.

    المخاوف من التوطين طاولت ملفّات مُحقّة وأثّرت على مسارها التنفيذيّ لعلّ منح المرأة اللبنانيّة الجنسيّة لزوجها واولادها من غير اللبنانيّين أكبر مثال على هذه القضيّة. تليه في ما بعد المادة 49 من قانون الموازنة العامة التي سقطت بدورها في فخّ التوطين على الرغم من ان مبرّراتها اقتصاديّة ــ عقاريّة بحتة. وقبلها اصدار الرئيس السّوري بشار الأسد القانون رقم 10 الذي يوفر إطاراً رسميا لإحالة ملكية أراضي السوريين النازحين إلى النظام، والذي وضعه بعض المحلّلين السياسيّين والقانونيّين في خانة تشجيع السوريّين على "الاقامة الدائمة" في لبنان.

    في اليومين الماضيين، ضجّت السّاحة السياسيّة المحليّة وضمنها الشعبيّة، بأخبار صحفيّة تكشف عن توقيع رئيس الجمهوريّة العماد ميشال عون مرسوم التجنيس لأكثر من مئة شخص من جنسيّات مختلفة، غالبيّتهم من التابعية السورية، موالون ومعارضون، فضلاً عن فلسطينيين. بالإضافة الى مزيج بين عرب واجانب، يطغى عليهم اصحاب الثروات، في اشارة الى مكاسب ماديّة حصل عليها "من وضعوا أيديهم" في المرسوم، واتهام صريح بتقاضي الرشاوى، والسعي الى حفظ المرسوم وعدم نشره في الجريدة الرسميّة.

    قضيّة مرسوم التجنيس تطرح علامات استفهام عدّة من زوايا مختلفة، قانونيّة وسياسيّة، يمكن تفنيدها بشكل مفصّل تبعاً للأقاويل والأخبار المنشورة. علماً أنّ المرسوم المُشار اليه لم يُنشر في الاعلام كدليل قاطع وثابت على حصول التوقيع بعكس الأسماء التي انتشرت كثيراً عبر وسائل الاعلام والتواصل الاجتماعي وتداولها النائب نديم الجميّل عبر صفحته الرسميّة على موقع تويتر تحت عنوان مرسوم التوطين.

    أوساط متابعة لفتت الى أنّ "هذا المرسوم لن يكون الاول من نوعه، وطريقة صدوره في حال صدق ما يشاع، لناحية عدم نشره في الجريدة الرسميّة وتمريره في نهاية عهد الحكومة، اذ صدر المرسوم الرقم 10214 عن رئيس الجمهوريّة السّابق ميشال سليمان، الذي وقع عليه الى جانب كلّ من رئيس حكومة تصريف الاعمال نجيب ميقاتي ووزير الداخليّة مروان شربل، ولم يتمّ نشره في الجريدة الرسميّة"، واضعةً ما يحصل في إطار ضرب صورة العهد.

    وأشارت الى أنّ "مرسوم التجنيس لا يصدر في الجريدة الرسميّة كونه مرسوم فرديّ كحال قانون العفو العام الذي يتمّ ابلاغ المستفيدين منه شخصيّاً لمعروفي الإقامة. وقد يتم اللجوء الى هذا النشر عند تعذّر الابلاغ الشخصيّ والفرديّ، وهناك حالات حصلت فيها هذا الاجراء". وأشارت الى انه قابل للطعن امام مجلس شورى الدولة".

    واعتبرت الأوساط ان ربط مرسوم التجنيس بالجنسية لأولاد الام اللبنانيّة والتوطين في غير مكانه الصحيح خصوصاً أنّ منح الجنسيّة يحتاج الى قانون من مجلس النوّاب لا مجرّد مرسوم، كما ان المستفيدين منه يجب ان تتوفّر فيهم حالات معينّة اي لا يتمّ اختيارهم عشوائيّاً.

    الخبير القانونيّ ربيع الشّاعر أشار الى أنّ "اصدار مرسوم التجنيس هو من صلاحيّات رئيس الجمهوريّة الذي له الحقّ في أن يمنح الجنسيّة اللبنانيّة ضمن شروط مُحدّدة وبعد التحقيق في ملفّ كلّ شخص على حدة، ودرسه من قبل المديرية العامة للأحوال الشخصيّة، ومن ثمّ رفعه الى وزير الداخليّة لتوقيعه الى جانب رئيس الحكومة. والتوقيع النهائي لرئيس الجمهوريّة الذي يدخل المرسوم حيّز التنفيذ، وفق ما نصّ عليه القرار رقم 15 تاريخ 19/1/1925".

    واعتبر انّ "منح الجنسيّة هو حقّ استنسابيّ تتمتّع به الدولة اللبنانيّة، لتمنح من خلاله الجنسيّة الى طالبيها لأسباب تراها مناسبة وتندرج في إطار المصلحة الوطنيّة او إثر خدمات تقدم للبلد من طوائف عدّة، تماماً كما حصل مع الرئيس الفرنسيّ ايمانويل ماكرون الذي كافأ المهاجر الافريقيّ منقذ الطفل من الموت بمنحه الجنسيّة الفرنسيّة".

    وشدّد الشّاعر على أنّ "ملفّ كل شخص يجب أن يدرس بطريقة مستقلّة لرؤية مدى تطابقه مع الشروط المطلوبة، بعكس ما حصل في المرسوم رقم 5247 الذي صدر بتاريخ 20/6/1994، ومنح الجنسية اللبنانيّة لعشرات الآلاف من الاشخاص دفعة واحدة، في خطوة مخالفة للقانون والشفافيّة".

    ولفت الى أنّه في حال ثبت توقيع رئيس الجمهوريّة على المرسوم قبل دخول حكومة الرئيس الحريري في مرحلة تصريف الاعمال يعتبر قانونيّاً، أما في حال صدوره بعد هذا التاريخ يفقده الصفة القانونيّة كونه لا يدخل في إطار الاعمال المستعجلة والضرورية لتسيير شؤون الدولة.

    من جهته، وضع وزير الداخليّة والبلديّات السّابق مروان شربل ما يتعرّض له الرئيس عون ضمن خانة الاتهام السياسيّ المعيب، متحديّاً "المصادر الرسميّة التي تتحدّث عن تلقي رشاوى ومكاسب ماديّة بإصدارها والكشف عنها بدلائل ثابتة وواضحة والا فليوقفوا التشويه العمديّ والمقصود".

    وأكّد أنّ "اصدار هذا المرسوم هو من صلاحيات الرئيس وسبق ان لجأت اليه عهود سابقة، كما يحتاج الى توافق الجهات المختصّة كافة بغية تمريره وتنفيذه، بعد استقصاء المعلومات عن الاشخاص المشمولين بالجنسية بمعنى الا يكونوا متورّطين بعمليات جرميّة، او تبييض أموال وغيرها من الاعمال غير المشروعة". وتساءل "لماذا لم تقم القيامة عند تمرير أكبر عملية تجنيس في تاريخ لبنان عام 1994؟".

    ريتا الجمّال | ليبانون ديبايت

    2018 -أيار -31

    how authentic is this list? why does it contain 52 names only while they are saying more than 360 persons got the nationality?

    because accordinng to LBC, the decree covered persons with special cases and more than 70% of them are Christians.

    فضيحة مرسوم التجنيس...كيف حصل نحو 400 مقتدِر ماليًا على الجنسية؟
     
    Last edited:

    La Blague

    Well-Known Member
    #5
    It’s a PR issue
    If nothing to hide you prepare the field by explaining why you are naturalizing these specific people.
    No need to do it before the elections as there’s no urgency

    You can wait for the next government

    But because they didn’t wait it makes the claim that Bassil And Machnouq wanted it to pass before (for money) believable as they weren’t sure to stay ministers

    Tayyar and PMA desperately need a competente communication team
     

    lebanese1

    Legendary Member
    #6
    It’s a PR issue
    If nothing to hide you prepare the field by explaining why you are naturalizing these specific people.
    No need to do it before the elections as there’s no urgency

    You can wait for the next government

    But because they didn’t wait it makes the claim that Bassil And Machnouq wanted it to pass before (for money) believable as they weren’t sure to stay ministers

    Tayyar and PMA desperately need a competente communication team
    why would tens of persons pay millions of $ each to take the lebanese nationality? what benefit do they get from this investment?
     

    La Blague

    Well-Known Member
    #7
    why would tens of persons pay millions of $ each to take the lebanese nationality? what benefit do they get from this investment?
    I agree
    But I suppose Tayyar made this same claim, that he got paid, when PMS naturalized 600 rich people in 2014

    I understand it’s politics and cheap media bashing

    But recently we’Ve been on the bad side too often
     

    Aoune32!

    Active Member
    #9
    No to naturalization period. We should be giving to those only that their fathers are Lebanese citizenship. Other than that its ridiculous.
     

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    #10
    PMA said that several decrees to naturalize Lebanese Immigrants plus persons who deserved it in Lebanon will be issued.
    Nothing wrong in that.
    Lebanese emigrants or expatriates are Lebanese. In fact, I do not understand how someone whose grandfather or father has a Lebanese passport and he cannot get the citizenship except through a law passed in Parliament granting Lebanese in the diaspora right to "reclaim" the citizenship. Reclaim from who? Who stole it from them in the first place? Its a shitty country with shitty laws when someone can present his grandfather's passport and he cannot immediately get a Lebanese passport without any so called reclaim.

    As for the Syrians being naturalized, I'm sure the FPM have no problem with them if they are Christians or if they are rich. You are all filthy and traders. You are all trading Lebanon. F$$$ you all! Give Lebanese mother the right to pass their citizenship to their children.

    Sometimes I still wonder how other countries around the world tolerate us Lebanese in their countries. We deserve to be sent back to Lebanon and we dont deserve to be hosted in any country. We have Stone age laws back in Lebanon that make it hard for foreigners in third world countries we work in and plunder to visit Lebanon while we get to live in those countries; and very racist attitude even towards our host communities around the world. And of course, our men marry Europeans, Australians and Americans and their children get citizenship. But our women can't pass citizenship to their children born to non Lebanese fathers. I hope other countries will pass a law that will treat foreign men marrying their women based on the laws of their countries.

    Of course, nothing shocking here. Lebanese hate themselves and discriminate among themselves, even there is discrimination between one neighborhood and another in the same town. Sick people who think they're on top of the world. Sometimes I regret and ask God why did I originate from such people? Lebanon is beautiful but its people are nasty.
     

    Aoune32!

    Active Member
    #12
    Lebanese emigrants or expatriates are Lebanese. In fact, I do not understand how someone whose grandfather or father has a Lebanese passport and he cannot get the citizenship except through a law passed in Parliament granting Lebanese in the diaspora right to "reclaim" the citizenship. Reclaim from who? Who stole it from them in the first place? Its a shitty country with shitty laws when someone can present his grandfather's passport and he cannot immediately get a Lebanese passport without any so called reclaim.

    As for the Syrians being naturalized, I'm sure the FPM have no problem with them if they are Christians or if they are rich. You are all filthy and traders. You are all trading Lebanon. F$$$ you all! Give Lebanese mother the right to pass their citizenship to their children.

    Sometimes I still wonder how other countries around the world tolerate us Lebanese in their countries. We deserve to be sent back to Lebanon and we dont deserve to be hosted in any country. We have Stone age laws back in Lebanon that make it hard for foreigners in third world countries we work in and plunder to visit Lebanon while we get to live in those countries; and very racist attitude even towards our host communities around the world. And of course, our men marry Europeans, Australians and Americans and their children get citizenship. But our women can't pass citizenship to their children born to non Lebanese fathers. I hope other countries will pass a law that will treat foreign men marrying their women based on the laws of their countries.

    Of course, nothing shocking here. Lebanese hate themselves and discriminate among themselves, even there is discrimination between one neighborhood and another in the same town. Sick people who think they're on top of the world. Sometimes I regret and ask God why did I originate from such people? Lebanon is beautiful but its people are nasty.
    No []. Look [] when a woman is going to get married to a foreigner no where in the word does she get citizenship. She gets like a temp visa.
    Second, if 500K woman in a small country like Lebanon of 4.2 million want to marry foreigners no problem but I wont change my law to accaomodate or facilitate a change of demographics in the country. It is not my issue.

    For one a woman when she gets married she starts to vote in her husbands city. Where does a woman and children vote when she marries a foreigner??? Her fathers??? Her husband under her fathers ID?? Laws are put in place to be respected.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    #13
    No []. Look [] when a woman is going to get married to a foreigner no where in the word does she get citizenship. She gets like a temp visa.
    Second, if 500K woman in a small country like Lebanon of 4.2 million want to marry foreigners no problem but I wont change my law to accaomodate or facilitate a change of demographics in the country. It is not my issue.

    For one a woman when she gets married she starts to vote in her husbands city. Where does a woman and children vote when she marries a foreigner??? Her fathers??? Her husband under her fathers ID?? Laws are put in place to be respected.
    You're so stupid and blind to refer to someone else as retard. You have no balls. Those are tiny balloons between your legs. No one you sound so insecure from foreign men. A woman should have the right to pass citizenship to her children. Even if you don't want to give the foreign husband citizenship, the children should have the right to citizenship. Stone age baboon!
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    #14
    @Aoune32!

    Listen idiot, when lebanese men marry American or foreign women, dont they get american citizenship after a period of time? When lebanese men marry foreign women, those same women get citizenship. Lebanese laws are shitty. They have no trace of modernism. All you care about is "voting". How to maximize voters for your bloc or your sect. Before being a voter, a lebanese is human. We are not meant to be counted and used by stupid politicians like cattle. What sort of person are you? What sort of a country is this? And you live in Australia. I'm sure you pride yourself of having Australian citizenship. What's good for the goose must be good for the gander. Time to move with the world.
     

    mrsrx

    New Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #16
    No []. Look [] when a woman is going to get married to a foreigner no where in the word does she get citizenship. She gets like a temp visa.
    Second, if 500K woman in a small country like Lebanon of 4.2 million want to marry foreigners no problem but I wont change my law to accaomodate or facilitate a change of demographics in the country. It is not my issue.

    For one a woman when she gets married she starts to vote in her husbands city. Where does a woman and children vote when she marries a foreigner??? Her fathers??? Her husband under her fathers ID?? Laws are put in place to be respected.
    Dude wtf...women should have the right to give their children the nationality...and if where they would vote is the problem you have then you don't see the real problems!!

    Why does it make you more lebanese if your father is from lebanon than if your mother is?!

    P.S.: just a small reminder we are in 2018!
     
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    Aoune32!

    Active Member
    #17
    Dude wtf...women should have the right to give their children the nationality...and if where they would vote is the problem you have then you don't see the real problems!!

    Why does it make you more lebanese if your father is from lebanon than if your mother is?!

    P.S.: just a small reminder we are in 2018!
    NO :)
     

    Aoune32!

    Active Member
    #20
    It is really funny when one compares Lebanon to Australia masalan without actually understanding the repercussions in Lebanon.

    1) In Australia you don't vote where you were born. You vote where you reside. So if you live in an area you vote there. After 2 years you reside somewhere else you are obligated to update your electoral records to vote in that area. Very different in Lebanon where you vote where the Father or Husband is from.
    2) There has been many moving inside Lebanon. Say alot of Northerners live in Jounieh yet they still are not allowed to vote there hence you need to vote from the city you were born in and actually your FATHER is from.
    3) If a Lebanese woman marries a non-Lebanese man where does she vote exactly? Where does her children vote?? Why would it be allowed for her children from a non-Lebanese partner to vote in the area where her FATHER is from?? I vote in the area where my FATHER is from not where my MOTHER's FATHER is from?

    You end up with 2 laws for 2 sets of people. This is not only about voting. We are a small country with only 4.2 so million people. We have 1+ million syrians, 300K palestinians and thousands of Lebanese woman who have married foreigners (the exact number I don't know). We are not the only country who does not allow a Lebanese woman to pass on citizenship. Our rules and laws do not pass on citizenship from the MOTHER but the FATHER irrespective if the Mother aslan is Lebanese or Not.
     

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