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Nazis on the rise in Europe & USA

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
Its not ur description of nazi group that is wsy off, its portraying the biggest problem of the jewish community being angry white men that’s wrong.

Not sure where you read that in my posts but I'm quite certain I never portrayed anything of the sort! All I said in an answer to your question:

"
Let me put it this way, in france when the LDJ( ligue de defence juive) fights with protesters trying vandalize a synaguoge, what etiquette would those peotesters fit:
- white angry men
- leftists of arab descent"

That they are actually more likely to be white angry men not "leftists" of Arabic descent! Considering that neo Nazis for the most part are indeed white angry men :)


Lefitst is any student union, workers union political party that prone anti capitalism/anti “the man” rhetoric in public debate. Les insoumis, all european socialist parties, communists, greens, labour...
Is this definition clear enough?

Sure but that doesn't leave much open space for the rage lol! I guess we're going for classic leftist since that better serves your preconceived conclusion that the rise of "Nazism" a far right ideology is to blame on student unions who welcome Arab students :p !


Lol really? Give me a bit mote of a challenge man, immigration based voters overwhemingly vote left, embrace leftist ideals on welfare and immigration decolonization..
Ur definition of leftist ideals is not uptodate with a big part of the voting left.

Voting for something because you care about one issue more than others, or more precisely because you think this side would tolerate you more than the other, doesn't mean you "embrace leftist ideals"! My definition is the one being thrown around the forum by people who like to rage about "the leftists"! Also what are leftist ideals on immigration exactly?


Which part exactly? The part i pointed out to you he explsins how the labour is surfing on ideas that interrest muslim communities and their compassion for paledtine to gain more votes. Thats the point ibwas lookinh to show u

I Listened to the part you highlighted, the guy conflated anti-zionism and anti Israeli sentiment with antisemitism, there's a significant difference between feeling compassion for the Palestinians who are living in a literal hell on earth and shouting death to Jews or heil Hitler! If we are to discuss neo Nazis on the other hand, then there is no comparison to be made!
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Not sure where you read that in my posts but I'm quite certain I never portrayed anything of the sort! All I said in an answer to your question:

"
Let me put it this way, in france when the LDJ( ligue de defence juive) fights with protesters trying vandalize a synaguoge, what etiquette would those peotesters fit:
- white angry men
- leftists of arab descent"

That they are actually more likely to be white angry men not "leftists" of Arabic descent! Considering that neo Nazis for the most part are indeed white angry men :)
That is simply not true, and as u agreed in ur earlier post a Jewish person walking in an immigration heavy neighborhood would feel much less safe than walking in one that is mostly white angry men.

And theres a very very simple explanation for this. As much as white angry men might not like jews they have been taught at school, taken on trips to visit camps, heard stiries from survivors abt the holocaust.
Whilst immigration based population only know jews from the paledtinian conflict and harbor hate for it. Their parents were never taught abt the holicaust and with less and less survivors today what they are taught in school is just a few lines on a textbook.


Sure but that doesn't leave much open space for the rage lol! I guess we're going for classic leftist since that better serves your preconceived conclusion that the rise of "Nazism" a far right ideology is to blame on student unions who welcome Arab students :p !

I am blaming the rise of neo nazis on the left? Come again?
Also anecdotacly, the rise of naxism in the 1930s is directly linked to the rise of leftism in worker and student’s unions.
Where do you think rosa luxembourg was recruiting from?

Voting for something because you care about one issue more than others, or more precisely because you think this side would tolerate you more than the other, doesn't mean you "embrace leftist ideals"! My definition is the one being thrown around the forum by people who like to rage about "the leftists"! Also what are leftist ideals on immigration exactly?
Whatever the reason one votes for a group, if that group finds that certain talking points are making a demographic embrace it then these talking points will have more weight in that group’s decision wont it?
I am not to blame if those points are about israel and jews. And expect the two to be more and more meshed since israel has officially become the state of the jews.

As for the left’s ideals abt immigration its an open door policy as long as they can pay for welfare, as it has been since the 60s.

I Listened to the part you highlighted, the guy conflated anti-zionism and anti Israeli sentiment with antisemitism, there's a significant difference between feeling compassion for the Palestinians who are living in a literal hell on earth and shouting death to Jews or heil Hitler! If we are to discuss neo Nazis on the other hand, then there is no comparison to be made!
Arabs/muslims dont really make a difference between antisionism and antisemitism. I am sure that you know it since u’re an arab as much as i am.
Now political parties on the left are trying to swim in those murky waters to attract immigration based voters. Thats the problem.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
AFAIK the left in the US hasnt,until very recently, been influenced by second/thrid generation mmigration from the middle east/maghreb region.

The case is very different for europe.

But give them a decade they wont dissapoint :p
Muslims are about 1.1 % of the entire US population. Even with the most optimistic estimate they can't get too far in numbers.
That said, the US left's support for Israel is trending slightly away from that of the European right and that has nothing to do with Muslims. It has more to do with the current Israeli government moving farther to the right thus perceived as hawkish and overreaching. Don't get me wrong, Democrats still support Israel and will do so for quite some time but the level of support is changing. Just keep Netanyahu around for a few more years and you'll see. He already butted heads with Obama and I am sure he will butt heads with the next Democratic president, because he is Bibi.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Don't worry, your english is perfect.

By ignoring the subject of this thread and only attacking the left is a prime example of silence being louder than words.

This is so intellectually fraudulent. I would expect it from others but not from you. You should be ashamed to stoop this low.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
That is simply not true, and as u agreed in ur earlier post a Jewish person walking in an immigration heavy neighborhood would feel much less safe than walking in one that is mostly white angry men.

And theres a very very simple explanation for this. As much as white angry men might not like jews they have been taught at school, taken on trips to visit camps, heard stiries from survivors abt the holocaust.
Whilst immigration based population only know jews from the paledtinian conflict and harbor hate for it. Their parents were never taught abt the holicaust and with less and less survivors today what they are taught in school is just a few lines on a textbook.

Kif that is simply not true? You asked about protesters I answered about protesters! You want to say neo Nazis are Arabs now as well? Or pretend like they don't exist? Seriously you cannot blame this only on leftists and Arabs that's a big stretch and you know it!

Also if you are talking about immigrants born and raised in Europe and the west then they were definitely taught about the Holocaust! I think political ideologies should be taught in schools along with how to differentiate them... It's not just learning about the Holocaust that makes one less likely to be an anti-Semite! People need to learn about the dangers of authoritarianism, nationalism, etc. These are ideologies that make one more inclined to hate the other rather than relate or try to understand them.



I am blaming the rise of neo nazis on the left? Come again?
Also anecdotacly, the rise of naxism in the 1930s is directly linked to the rise of leftism in worker and student’s unions.
Where do you think rosa luxembourg was recruiting from?

Yes you are by dismissing literally every single neo Nazi party in Europe today in order to attack parties that enjoy the support of immigrants who may or may not be antisemites because it suits your political views! The rise of Hitler and his party was largely due to the loss of the first world war and a resentment that Germany was weak, kamena you want to blame the rise of the extreme right on leftists when they were their first victims?


Whatever the reason one votes for a group, if that group finds that certain talking points are making a demographic embrace it then these talking points will have more weight in that group’s decision wont it?
I am not to blame if those points are about israel and jews. And expect the two to be more and more meshed since israel has officially become the state of the jews

As for the left’s ideals abt immigration its an open door policy as long as they can pay for welfare, as it has been since the 60s.

Kif heyde ye3ne ? As a Lebanese I'm not allowed to say anything bad about Israel without getting branded as an anti-Semite? You do know that's bullshit right? Either I agree with everything Israel stands for or I'm using hate speech? Hayda habal esmo!

Ba3dena which open door policy are you talking about and where does it exist today?


Arabs/muslims dont really make a difference between antisionism and antisemitism. I am sure that you know it since u’re an arab as much as i am.
Now political parties on the left are trying to swim in those murky waters to attract immigration based voters. Thats the problem.

But we're not talking about Arabs/Muslims here rather the leftist parties you want to blame for the rise of Nazism! Do these parties make a difference between criticizing Israel and criticizing the jews or don't they?

I think I'm pretty much done with this discussion, we're already paraphrasing ourselves lol
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This is simply not true.
The overwhelming majority of American Jews tend to vote for Democrats for a reason.

Neo-Nazism is very much a product of ultra nationalism and extreme right policies.

Democrats may critizice Israel's excessive use of force sometimes, but they're far from being anti-Semitic.

1 - Jews vote for the Democrats because they tend to be liberal / leftist. Conservative Jews lean Republican.

2 - You are buying into the leftist lie that conservative and alt-right are the same. Conservatives / Republicans are very much pro-Israel, and they are not on an anti-Jewish mission.They have nothing to do with neo-Nazis.

3 - The Democratic party has also very much been pro-Israel (although things are changing recently). When we speak of leftists being pro-Palestinian, we are talking about John Doe the leftist, not necessarily the Democratic party.

The above also applies outside the U.S.

Bottom line, either way American Jews vote, they know that the pro-Israel lobby has them covered. So, if they choose the Democratic party over the Republicans, it is not because one is more or less anti-semitic than the other, but because of policies unrelated to anti-semitism.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Chu khas american jews and neo nazism in the usa??

The left’s base has always sided with palestinians, in europe at least but i think in the us too, and this new wave of activists coming from cultural ghettos are even more so biased against jews

Exactly. I was left leaning most of my adult life. All the leftists I ever met are pro-Palestinian.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Check out the numbers. Anti-semetic activities done by those of immigrant descent is near zero. Those done by angy white Christian men is almost 100%.
Oh i missed this one, in france alone in the past couple of years there have been several break ins/theft/vandalism acts/murders of jewish citizens solely on the base of antisemitism and the caught offenders were all from immigrant roots
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Point being that the base of activists in the left being more and more children of immigrants are bringing with them their hate towards jews.

Ur definition worked during the 70s and 80s not today

Not to mention that alt-right neo-nazis are very small in number compared to leftists. The neo-marxist ideology is widespread throughout society; it is everywhere from schools to the media. The neo-nazis, however, are a fringe group.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Muslims are about 1.1 % of the entire US population. Even with the most optimistic estimate they can't get too far in numbers.
That said, the US left's support for Israel is trending slightly away from that of the European right and that has nothing to do with Muslims. It has more to do with the current Israeli government moving farther to the right thus perceived as hawkish and overreaching. Don't get me wrong, Democrats still support Israel and will do so for quite some time but the level of support is changing. Just keep Netanyahu around for a few more years and you'll see. He already butted heads with Obama and I am sure he will butt heads with the next Democratic president, because he is Bibi.

The Israeli government isn't doing anything, today, that it hasn't been doing for decades.

What changed is not Israeli politics, but the U.S. Democrats going from liberals to outright leftists.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The Israeli government isn't doing anything, today, that it hasn't been doing for decades.

What changed is not Israeli politics, but the U.S. Democrats going from liberals to outright leftists.

What's the difference between a liberal and a Lefftist? Don't they go hand in hand?
In the US, "Leftist" has come to mean "Democrat".

On Oroom, every time you voice your rejection of racism and prejudice, you're automatically labelled a Leftist.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Not to mention that alt-right neo-nazis are very small in number compared to leftists. The neo-marxist ideology is widespread throughout society; it is everywhere from schools to the media. The neo-nazis, however, are a fringe group.

Are you really equating the Marxist ideology with neo-Nazism?
One is about achieving wealth equality, and the latter is about ethnic cleansing.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What's the difference between a liberal and a Lefftist? Don't they go hand in hand?
In the US, "Leftist" has come to mean "Democrat".

On Oroom, every time you voice your rejection of racism and prejudice, you're automatically labelled a Leftist.

Liberals are near the center of the left-right political spectrum, and more libertarian; leftists are further on the left of the spectrum (somewhere between liberals and communists) and more authoritarian (think of their attacks on free speech and their imposition of the gender-neutral ideology).
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Are you really equating the Marxist ideology with neo-Nazism?
One is about achieving wealth equality, and the latter is about ethnic cleansing.

Not really.

Hitler rose to power by promising to save Germans from the economic hardship and humiliation they suffered after WWI. He put Germans on a pedestal and used Jews as scapegoats.

Communist leaders like Stalin rose to power by promising to save people from economic hardship and humiliation. They put the proletariat on a pedestal and used the wealthy, urban, and intellectual classes as scapegoats.

Both ideologies resulted in horrible suffering and millions of deaths. In fact, marxism/communism caused more deaths and devastation than nazism, but leftist academics and media people conveniently ommit this fact. Both are evil ideologies.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
The Israeli government isn't doing anything, today, that it hasn't been doing for decades.

What changed is not Israeli politics, but the U.S. Democrats going from liberals to outright leftists.
Oh those big bad leftists that messed the whole world up...

You are correct in that the Israeli actions remain for the most part the same, the only difference is that they are much more visible. The other side of it is Bibi's arrogant behavior. Even AIPAC was annoyed by him, go figure.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Liberals are near the center of the left-right political spectrum, and more libertarian; leftists are further on the left of the spectrum (somewhere between liberals and communists) and more authoritarian (think of their attacks on free speech and their imposition of the gender-neutral ideology).
Not really.

Hitler rose to power by promising to save Germans from the economic hardship and humiliation they suffered after WWI. He put Germans on a pedestal and used Jews as scapegoats.

Communist leaders like Stalin rose to power by promising to save people from economic hardship and humiliation. They put the proletariat on a pedestal and used the wealthy, urban, and intellectual classes as scapegoats.

Both ideologies resulted in horrible suffering and millions of deaths. In fact, marxism/communism caused more deaths and devastation than nazism, but leftist academics and media people conveniently ommit this fact. Both are evil ideologies.

I think modern Leftists are more socialists than communists. Socialism is about creating equal opportunities for everyone by providing free access to education and healthcare.
The Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Canada are all good examples of socialism.

You can be a Leftist without being a totalitarian like Stalin.
Communism is an extreme form of socialism.

Nazism on the other hand is just evil.
There's no moderate form of Nazism.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I think modern Leftists are more socialists than communists. Socialism is about creating equal opportunities for everyone by providing free access to education and healthcare.
The Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Canada are all good examples of socialism.

You can be a Leftist without being a totalitarian like Stalin.
Communism is an extreme form of socialism.

Nazism on the other hand is just evil.
There's no moderate form of Nazism.

Say that to the gender advocates who think it would be a good idea to put their opponents in gulags.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter

PewTinPie

New Member
1 in 20 Europeans has never heard of the holocaust?

Very credible.
its scary but i believe it. i have seen several documentaries and interviews about this. the so called "holocaust deniers" "movement" (for lack of a better term) started actually not so shortly ago. aaand it was started by the Israelis, not the jews, the Israelis. the idea behind it was to get rid of the victim mentality as a people. they knowingly cover it up. strange eh? (source: beirut to jerusalem. must read btw). the reason Europe tries to forget it and germany is letting in millions of refugees is that they feel bad. the other European countries like to point fingers at germany but lets not forget who made it possible for the nazis to find them all and finance it... dont trust me though. do your own research
 

PewTinPie

New Member
You guys in Europe have it easy... I do have Jewish and Israeli people I call my friends, however, I don't openly discuss anything related to Israeli politics. In my line of work, you need VC funding to get something started and you'd be a freaking fool if you think your anti-Israeli positions no matter how moderate and reasonable will not affect the outcome.
that depends from where you seeks those funds. if you are in lebanon then i would really suggest to look somewhere else. i know 2 guys, one personally that ended up in jail just for taking investments from israel. there is a reason israel is called the silicon valley of the middle east, they have shit tons of money are very open minded, high tec up to date and motivated. but please remember that this is a public side and our friend in stripes, hi ISF will make your life very hard. one of the few crimes where a wasta wont get you out
 
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