October 2019 Revolution - Live Update

What do you think will happen next, after Hariri's resignation?

  • Stalemate - No govt will be formed

    Votes: 40 52.6%
  • New mini-government of specialists will be formed in less than 10 days

    Votes: 20 26.3%
  • Similar government with Hariri PM again

    Votes: 14 18.4%
  • Civil War

    Votes: 21 27.6%

  • Total voters
    76
LVV

LVV

Well-Known Member
الحريري: I’m Out










ملاك عقيل | ليبانون ديبايت | 2019 - تشرين الثاني - 08


"ليبانون ديبايت"- ملاك عقيل

شكَّلت الزيارة المفاجِئة لرئيس حكومة تصريف الاعمال سعد الحريري الى قصر بعبدا تكريسًا لواقعٍ يشي باشتداد حدّة الأزمة بدلاً من أن تكون التمهيد المفترض لبدءِ مسار الانفراج من خلال دعوة رئيس الجمهورية الى استشارات نيابية لتكليف رئيس الحكومة.

اعلان


فالوضع المالي والاقتصادي كما المصرفي بكلّ تداعياته الخطيرة وغير المسبوقة، كان الحاضر الاكبر في لقاءِ الرئيسَيْن في بعبدا في ظلّ ستاتيكو قائم على الواقع الآتي: عجزٌ سياسيٌّ حقيقيٌّ عن مواكبةِ استقالة رئيس الحكومة بخطّةٍ انقاذية تستثمر الصدمة الايجابية التي أحدثتها هذه الاستقالة في الشارعِ من خلال استمرار النزاع حول "هوية الحكومة" المقبلة، وارتفاع المتاريس أكثر بين معسكرين الاول يمثله حزب الله وميشال عون ونبيه بري يتمسَّك بتكريس "الانتماء" السياسي للحكومة العتيدة وإن بوجوهِ "اختصاصيين" في مقابل رئيس حكومة مستقيل يبدو "زاهدًا" في السرايا وبإعادة تكليفه ما لم يتمّ تلقف الاستقالة بتشكيل فريقِ عملٍ حكوميٍّ "نوعي" يدفع أهل الشارع فور الاعلان عن مراسيم الحكومة للعودة الى منازلهم!

وفق المعلومات، ما تمّ تداوله بين عون والحريري، اقتصرَ على طرحِ الاحتمالات الممكنة لتفادي الأسوأ على الصعيد المالي والاقتصادي والمصرفي في ظلّ التقارير المخيفة التي تصل تباعًا الى كلٍّ من بعبدا وبيت الوسط، وعن حالاتِ الهلع التي لم توفّر أكبر رأس حتى أصغر مودع، والاجراءات "الردعية" التي تتخذها المصارف والتي كرَّست واقع قرب انهيار السقف فوق رؤوس الجميع...

تؤكِّد شخصية بارزة على تماسٍ مباشرٍ مع حركةِ الاتصالات بين المقار السياسيّة "وسط اشتدادِ الازمةِ لا شيء يوحي، أنّ الرئيس عون سيدعو الى استشاراتِ التكليفِ قبل الاسبوع المقبل. كان يفترض لاستقالة الحريري، أن تفتحَ كوة حقيقية في جدار الازمة إلّا أنّ المدَّ والجزرَ لا يزال قائمًا مع الاشارة، أمام من لا يزال يسأل عن سببِ الاستقالة، الى ضرورة الأخذ بالاعتبار فيما لو لم يأخذ الحريري قراره بالاستقالة، ماذا كان يمكن أن يحصل على مستوى الشارع".

عمليًّا، لا يزال الحريري يقف عند مفترقِ طرقٍ تاركًا للآخرين أن يناوروا حتى يحدِّد المسار النهائي الذي سيسلكه. فالاستقالة حصلت بعد 13 يومًا من الحراك المطلبي غير المسبوق في تاريخ لبنان. هو إذًا أعطى فرصة للحلول، وبالتالي "تخوينه" يخرج عن إطار المنطق، برأي القريبين منه.

واليوم ثمّة قوى سياسية تتمسَّك ببقائه، لكن شروط العودة واضحة لدى الحريري: لا لحكومة بالتوازنات نفسها التي حَكَمت الحكومة المستقيلة بل "حكومة شارع" تتماهى مع سلّة مطالبه المحقة، مسلِّمًا بأن لا أحد يملك ترف الوقت للتفاوض "على الباردِ" وإن فشلنا، وفق قريبين منه، "ستحلّ الكارثة".

ويبدو، أنّ خيارَ التماهي مع رياحِ الشارعِ ستدفع الحريري، في حال إتّخَذَ القرار بعدم تكليفه، الى تزكية إسمٍ "موثوقٍ" قد لا يدور بالضرورة في فلكِ تيار المستقبل، ما يعني، أنّ الحريري سيذهب بعيدًا جدًا في الجلوس على مقاعدِ "جمهور الحَراكِ"، بما أنّ مطلبه الاساس كان حكومة متحرِّرَة من كلّ القيود السياسيّة، إذ يرى الحريري أنها الافضل لتهدئة الشارع ورسالة جدية الى المجتمع الدولي.

ولعلّ المصيبة الاكبر أنه بعد عشرة أيام من تقديم الحريري استقالته لا اتفاق لا على شكل الحكومة ولا عددها "المُصغَّر"، في وقتٍ يشير مطلعون، الى أنّ حزب الله والرئيس بري لا يزالان يطلبان المزيد من الوقت قبل أن يطوي الحريري تمامًا صفحة التكليف ليلتحق مجددًا بنادي رؤساء الحكومات السّابقين، فيما يحذِّر قريبون من الحريري، بأنّ الحَراكَ الشعبي في حال لم تقدَّم له "وصفة" الحلّ المعقول سيتحوَّل تدريجًا الى "ثورةٍ معيشيّةٍ" بالتزامن مع المخاطر المتزايدة على الصعيد المالي.

ويبدو، أنّ مطلعين على مشاوراتِ التكليفِ يتكلَّمون بشيءٍ من الحسمِ، بأنّ الحريري قد اتخذ قراره فعلاً لكنه، وتفاديًا لعدم تعزيز نظرية المؤامرة، يعطي المفاوضات حدّها الاقصى.
 
  • Advertisement
  • !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    I country and state collapse
    I m for declarations of Christians state federal government in Lebanon
    We deal directly with the world
    i am not. i am with some reforms in the state like admin decentralisation and a senate. a proportional law 10 districts with no sect allotment and a reduction to 50 Mps tops. the parliaments powers are clipped a bit and it goes to the senate. the president to be from any christian sect and with 2 powers. 1) can ask the parliament for elections and it need to be approved by the senate 50+1 and no time limit for approving decrees.
    the PM and speaker sects rotates every 2 years. a gov of no more than 10 ministers with most powers being transferred from the central authority to the provinces. metel ma fe municipality elections we make it bigger like province elections of say 10 members. so its like a local gov. akide get back the money to the state, beaches, lands and properties. the country stays 10452 but people have more of a say in their affairs.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    LOOOOOL bro ma 3abit nem billel enta ad ma ma2hour. 1564, Suicide prevention hotline. Remember it in case you need it.

    1403 pages and still all of your posts are either pro-LF or pro-protests.
    Ana pro-LF? 3anjad? You need your eyes examined.

    Ba3den some of my posts were taking caution from foreign organizations leveraging the protests to escalate them into violence. Not true that I'm support every single protester on the street. I don't support Hezb 7 masalan. I don't support the LF using the protesters for political gains.

    Bas enta blanket smearing. Ntebih 3al daght 5ayye leb1 eza byotla3 lal 20 by3mil la2we : D
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    i am not. i am with some reforms in the state like admin decentralisation and a senate. a proportional law 10 districts with no sect allotment and a reduction to 50 Mps tops. the parliaments powers are clipped a bit and it goes to the senate. the president to be from any christian sect and with 2 powers. 1) can ask the parliament for elections and it need to be approved by the senate 50+1 and no time limit for approving decrees.
    the PM and speaker sects rotates every 2 years. a gov of no more than 10 ministers with most powers being transferred from the central authority to the provinces. metel ma fe municipality elections we make it bigger like province elections of say 10. so its like a local gov. akide get back the money to the state, beaches, lands and properties. the country stays 10452 but people have more of a say in their affairs.
    We are saying same stuff almost

    Big decentralization is almost federalism
    If everything collapsed we go from zero
    The question you want to get out of sanctions area
    We have to organize ourselves
    All what you propose I agree
    But it will not work with foreign intervention and Weapons of Ha
    After organizing ourselves we go to new national pact
    What you say can work if a technocrat Government is made and National dialogue
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    We are saying same stuff almost

    Big decentralization is almost federalism
    If everything collapsed we go from zero
    The question you want to get out of sanctions area
    We have to organize ourselves
    All what you propose I agree
    But it will not work with foreign intervention and Weapons of Ha
    ma7ada khayef mn HA weapons. every party has weapons. the issue is that we dont want a civil war. we dont want to wreck our country wlo thats pretty much it. im pretty sure HA also doesnt want a civil war. whats the purpose aslan?
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    ma7ada khayef mn HA weapons. every party has weapons. the issue is that we dont want a civil war. we dont want to wreck our country wlo thats pretty much it. im pretty sure HA also doesnt want a civil war. whats the purpose aslan?
    There is 2 ways here
    Positive they agree on government and reform and everything will go as you proposed to dialogue
    Negative
    Total confusion and collapse
    We are more organized and ready to deal with the world
    Here we will be obliged to assume powers in your region and to organize ourselves
    Us and Europe will not sanction us
    Bro we are de facto a divided country
    See Christians areas ( half closed)and Sunnis ( all closed)
    Shia ( all open )
    We need a new national pact on the long run
    I don’t feel we can remain a Centralized country wit ha weapons or even one country in the end
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    موقف الاتحاد الأوروبي بين عون وطرَاف












    رصد موقع ليبانون ديبايت | 2019 - تشرين الثاني - 08


    استقبل رئيس الجمهورية العماد ميشال عون سفير الإتحاد الأوروبي في لبنان رالف طرّاف وبحث معه في الأوضاع العامة وموقف الاتحاد الأوروبي منها.
    This ambassadors s Lebanese origin
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    There is 2 ways here
    Positive they agree on government and reform and everything will go as you proposed to dialogue
    Negative
    Total confusion and collapse
    We are more organized and ready to deal with the world
    Here we will be obliged to assume powers in your region and to organize ourselves
    Us and Europe will not sanction us
    Bro we are de facto a divided country
    See Christians areas ( half closed)and Sunnis ( all closed)
    Shia ( all open )
    We need a new national pact on the long run
    I don’t feel we can remain a Centralized country wit ha weapons or even one country in the end
    everyone is scared. scared of the not knowing. one step at a time. let the state collapse and the public corrupt servants go home. they will be the most affected.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: LVV
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There is 2 ways here
    Positive they agree on government and reform and everything will go as you proposed to dialogue
    Negative
    Total confusion and collapse
    We are more organized and ready to deal with the world
    Here we will be obliged to assume powers in your region and to organize ourselves
    Us and Europe will not sanction us
    Bro we are de facto a divided country
    See Christians areas ( half closed)and Sunnis ( all closed)
    Shia ( all open )
    We need a new national pact on the long run
    I don’t feel we can remain a Centralized country wit ha weapons or even one country in the end
    Reforms on their own are not enough, they are a small part of the real problem
    Say we did apply those reforms and put all those thieves in jail
    however we keep forgetting that we are already bankrupt

    The Hezbollahi plan is to get that money from the rich billionaires, like senioura and Mikati
    which is fine
    However that will not change anything, their money will probably help us survive couple of months
    and then what ?

    We need to restore our economy + reforms and yes the thieves need to be brought to justice and put in jail.

    The situation is clear
    Hezbollah need to learn from the 3awn 1990 experience
    Even with all the internal support they could get, we cannot face global superpowers, we're a small country that produces nothing with an economy that heavily revolves around the banking sector and investments
    Isolating ourselves is suicide
    It is time to take the bullet and turn their backs to their Iranian Overlords while showing them the finger
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Reforms on their own are not enough, they are a small part of the real problem
    Say we did apply those reforms and put all those thieves in jail
    however we keep forgetting that we are already bankrupt

    The Hezbollahi plan is to get that money from the rich billionaires, like senioura and Mikati
    which is fine
    However that will not change anything, their money will probably help us survive couple of months
    and then what ?

    We need to restore our economy + reforms and yes the thieves need to be brought to justice and put in jail.

    The situation is clear
    Hezbollah need to learn from the 3awn 1990 experience
    Even with all the internal support they could get, we cannot face global superpowers, we're a small country that produces nothing with an economy that heavily revolves around the banking sector and investments
    Isolating ourselves is suicide
    It is time to take the bullet and turn their back to their Iranian Overlords while showing them the finger
    As I said
    I agree in the long run
    We can’t remain one country with these weapons
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That's because experience shows us FPM only does good when it benefits their self-serving short term interests, and they would just as easily do the opposite when it suits them politically. Also, I disagree about this specific person/instance. He's clearly doing bidding of FPM; they're paying him to come to their tv station and give this kind of talk. It's how they mobilize their base.

    Look, I'll be honest. I'll never support a party that covers Hizbullah's de facto occupation of the country, regardless of anything else. The State needs to assert its sovereignty over entirety of Lebanese territory, and Lebanese citizens need to feel equal before the eyes of the law. Else, you're just cooking a recipe for civil war. Furthermore, what happens in the South during elections, and what happened and is still happening during these protests, is NOT normal. Shiite citizens are being terrorized and the State is nowhere to be seen. FPM is covering for that, by the way. They're busy spreading lies and launching a full scale propaganda campaign against LF, trying to make it seem as if they are leading this revolution. They're only doing this for, once again, self-serving short-term political gains and not because it is true. Just like the اوعى خيك period when they needed to secure LF support for Aoun.
    Experience tells every party does the same, it’s called politics. Ou3a Khayyak had 2 parties in it... besides, orthodox law, share of the president in principle, power sector propaganda etc... this is how the game is played, I can equally share the examples in UK politics between the tories and labor... singling our FPM is unfair at the least.
    As for HA - we never disagreed on the end in mind, we always disagreed on the how... this hob toff lets make an all out war or let’s get another country to fight them (your way) I am totally against. Treating HA as non Lebanese is not Ok- we need to take responsibility for ourselves.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Reforms on their own are not enough, they are a small part of the real problem
    Say we did apply those reforms and put all those thieves in jail
    however we keep forgetting that we are already bankrupt

    The Hezbollahi plan is to get that money from the rich billionaires, like senioura and Mikati
    which is fine
    However that will not change anything, their money will probably help us survive couple of months
    and then what ?

    We need to restore our economy + reforms and yes the thieves need to be brought to justice and put in jail.

    The situation is clear
    Hezbollah need to learn from the 3awn 1990 experience
    Even with all the internal support they could get, we cannot face global superpowers, we're a small country that produces nothing with an economy that heavily revolves around the banking sector and investments
    Isolating ourselves is suicide
    It is time to take the bullet and turn their backs to their Iranian Overlords while showing them the finger
    the issue is that our country is built on the banking sector and investments and guess what it failed. in a normal country that is not enough. how can you build a country when a budget is not done for 11 years? how can u build a country when a minister wont show up to trial? how can u build a country when you have a party armed? how can you build a country when no one aslan respects the laws la2ano mafe laws aslan but a jungle? if i want to get a letter from some public institution i need to pay the worm to get it done? this country is a jungle always has been prior and after HA.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    عطالله: باسيل لا يريد أن يكون في الحكومة الجديدة












    الميادين | 2019 - تشرين الثاني - 08


    شدد وزير المهجرين في حكومة تصريف الأعمال غسان عطالله في حديث لقناة "الميادين" على أن " لقاء رئيس الجمهورية العماد ميشال عون ورئيس حكومة تصريف الأعمال سعد الحريري هو استكمال للاتصالات ورئيس التيار الوطني الحر الوزير جبران باسيل أبلغ رئيس الحكومة في وقت سابق أنه لا يريد أن يكون في الحكومة الجديدة".

    وأشار الى أن "استقالة الرئيس الحريري المفاجئة هي السبب في تأخير التأليف والوقت الذي يُعطى للدعوة الى الاستشارات هو لضمان الاسراع في تشكيل الحكومة".
    Wa haram
    #Revolution Achievement
    President Xibran corrupted republic
    V like Vendetta
    Victory
     
    Last edited:
    Top