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On Hezbollah and Recent Events...

Omega80

Well-Known Member
It is disheartening to see, when all Lebanese for the most part, from all political backgrounds, come together when our country is under attack, yet Hezbollah, from anyway you look at it, continues to be apologetic towards the Syrians.

When an MP in the Lebanese government is murdered by Syria, no matter who that person is, we expect a little unity and decisiveness from our government and political forces, which would help to give us confidence a bit and not feel as down. However, right when that was about to happen, certain ministers left the Cabinet session and suspended their membership in it!

I don't want to get into the reason WHY Hezbollah is doing what it is doing regarding Syria right now, because there are many. However, from even before the summer, and I will post the thread links if you like, I talked about Hezbollah in a positive way, and maybe that one day there could be an alliance between the FPM and Hezbollah, and I was attacked by the same people who now want that.

Either way, my opinion regarding the matter have changed 180 degrees because of the way Hezbollah is acting, and I just don't believe a word of it when they say they want to keep their weapons ONLY for resistance against Israel. They are being apologetic to the regime in Syria, regime that does not treat us like we are "sisterly" countries, but rather acts in a way that shows that it despises and hates us. So how can Hezbollah claim to be patriotic and defend such people, basically working in their interests??

The fact remains, that it is the fault of the FM/PSP that we are in the situation that we are in, because since they wanted to keep the 2000 Electoral Law to hurt us, they made sure that Hezbollah/Amal suffocated all other voices and opinions in the Shia community, and thus we are where we are today. So they have only themselves to blame, although we all now have to get out of this mess.

I wonder when people will start to realize that Hezbollah does not represent all Shias in Lebanon, as if they are sectarian robots and follow Hezbollah blindly.
Here is what Shiite Cleric Hani Fahhs had to say, and notice how his opinion differs from that of Hezbollah's:
"Lebanon has become in dire need of international protection, and this international protection needs to be an element of stability in Lebanon, meaning, there needs to be an understanding about it. This means that everyone should agree about Lebanon's priorities, because instability will not leave a safe place for anyone. Once again, as always, yes for historic settlements based on mutual compromises in the interest of Lebanon."

What about the comment made by Ibrahim Muhammad Shamseddine, the son of the former president of the Higher Shia Council, the late Sheikh Muhammad Mahdi Shamseddine (sorry it is in French):
"L’argument selon lequel la décision de former un tribunal international doit être prise a posteriori, une fois les suspects désignés, et non a priori ne tient pas.» C’est ce qu’a affirmé samedi Ibrahim Mohammed Chamseddine, le fils de l’ancien président du Conseil supérieur chiite, cheikh Mohammed Mehdi Chamseddine. «C’est, dit-il, comme si l’on disait que les tribunaux ne sauraient exister qu’une fois les prisons peuplées d’assassins et de criminels.» À l’issue d’une rencontre avec l’ancien chef de l’État, Amine Gemayel, au siège du parti Kataëb, M. Chamseddine a indiqué: «Au regard des développements actuels, il est important de consolider le dialogue interne entre toutes les parties en présence, en vue de l’entente entre les Libanais. À condition, dit-il, que ce dialogue soit axé sur des questions nationales à caractère général et non personnel, en fonction des craintes exprimées par certaines parties."

He is basically saying that an International Tribunal is a priority (opposite of Hezbollah). I could go on, but you get the point.
Hezbollah doesn't want to go by compromise and what is good for the country, but rather, what is good for them. True, they never stole from the Governemnt like others, but that is not enough anymore, when we are facing the threats that we are facing these days.
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
If Hezbollah does not represent the Shia in Lebanon, who else do they represent?

As a secular Shiite, I am telling you that Hezbollah is my representative in Lebanon, so far they are the ones who are talking about the achievement of the interests of Lebanon.

As for Hezbollahs support for Syria, I do not see anything that is wrong with that, they are not asking Syria to occupy Lebanon again, they are just supportive of Syria. I think that they are entitled to their political position.

Here is Hezbollah's statement on this issue which I do find as very patriotic to Lebanon and to the Lebanese people:



وعما اذا كان خروج الوزراء الشيعة هو نهائي من مجلس الوزراء قال: "في مجلس الوزراء طرح امران الاول هو توسيع مهمة لجنة التحقيق الدولية لتشمل صلاحياتها كل الجرائم التي بدأت منذ محاولة اغتيال الزميل مروان حمادة وصولا الى الجريمة الاخيرة التي سقط ضحيتها جبران تويني. والامر الاخر هو موضوع انشاء محاكمة دولية لمتابعة ومواكبة لجنة التحقيق الدولية في جريمة اغتيال الشهيد رفيق الحريري، محكمة ذات طابع دولي قلنا راينا الذي نقوله بشكل واضح. بدا أن لبنان امام مثل هذه الجرائم وردات الفعل والمطالب والاستعانة بأجهزة امنية ومرجعيات دولية للقضاء، وما يتعلق بالموضوع الاقتصادي وكأنه مقبل على مرحلة انتداب جديدة، هذا امر لا نقبله من جهتنا ونعتبر انه بمجرد حصول جريمة في لبنان تمثل سببا للمطالبة بتوسيع التحقيق او بأجراءات دولية اخرى هو دليل عجز او فشل، نحن لا نقبل ان تكون جزءا من هذا العجز او الفشل القائم لا احد يتخلى عن مرجعيته ولا عن دور اجهزته وسلطاته. ولذلك نحن رفضنا في الجلسة مسألة توسيع لجنة التحقيق الدولية اما موضوع المحاكمة الدولية فقلنا ان هذا الامر بدا منه حوار وطالبنا بأن يكون هناك مشروع واضح ومفصل بألياته وطبيعة عمل اللجنة ومكان عملها. ونحن طالبنا بأن يستكمل هذا الحوار ليصار الى اتفاق والوصول الى مخرج يجمع ويبقى الاجماع قائما داخل الحكومة. ولكن بعد نقاش مستفيض وطويل، طرح الامر على التصويت ومن جهتنا نعتبر ان هذا الموضوع لم يطرح بعد على صعيد المشاورات ويمكن ان يتأجل لمتسع من الوقت في ظل مناخ ايجابي للوصول الى قرار نجمع عليه كلبنانيين. وهذا قوة للبنان ولوحدته. ومع الاسف لم نكن نتمنى ذلك، ولكن الموضوع طرح على التصويت ولهذا السبب خرجنا من الجلسة ونعلن تعليق عضويتنا في الحكومة بإنتظار قرار المرجعية السياسية التي نمثل حول مسألة بقائنا في الحكومة اوعدمها".

وسئل : الا تعتقد ان المسلسل الجرامي الذي دول الامن في لبنان يستحق متابعة دولية؟

اجاب: "هذا يستحق تعزيز اجهزتنا الامنية. نحن لدينا لجنة تحقيق دولية حددنا لها ستة اشهر مقابل ستة اشهر اخرى، هل منع ذلك حصول الجرائم؟ هذا الامر يتطلب تعاونا من الجميع".

وردا على سؤال قال: "لا بد من ان نفهم طبيعة هذه المحاكمة المطلوبة ومرجعيتها وبدانا حوارا بشأنها عندما كنا منفتحين على اي شيء، نؤمن به ونعتقد به ويؤدي الى كشف الحقيقة وتحقيق العدالة دون اي تسييس ومن دون انحياز وبشكل عادل ومحايد".

وردا على سؤال آخر اجاب: "نحن قررنا تعليق عضويتنا، وعندما نصل الى البت بموضوع بقائنا او لا، لكل حادث حديث"، مجددا تأكيده "الانفتاح على الفرقاء السياسيين لبلورة صيغة واضحة ومحددة وفعالة بمرجعياتها واليات عملها وهذا الامر يحتاج الى وقت. ونحن بدانا بمثل هذا الحوار".

وعما اذا كان سيؤثر ذلك على تحالف وزراء حزب الله وامل مع تيار المستقبل والحزب الاشتراكي، قال: "ان الموضوع مطروح من اوجه في الرأي مسألة مصيرية معينة تتطلب مناقشة ومشاورات وصولا الى صيغة مجمع عليها. وهذا شأن احترامنا فيه بالراي والشؤون الاخرى لسنا مختلفين عليها وحتى هذه المحكمة من قال انه قد لا نتفق حولها اذا لم تتبلور مثل هذه الصيغة نحن نمارس حقا ديمقراطيا بالتعبير عن موقف من قضية مطروحة اسمها محاكمة دولية او توسيع عمل لجنة التحقيق، لاننا ننطلق من مبدا انه يجب وينبغي ان نقرر دور السلطات اللبنانية ونتحمل مسؤولياتها كحكومة، ولا نعطي صورة اننا فاشلون او عاجزون عن مواجهة الاوضاع".

وردا على سؤال قال: "ان هناك حدا ادنى من الشراكة بين القوى السياسية في تشكيل الحكومة وهذا جزء من الممارسة الديمقراطية واذا فقدنا الحد الادنى قد نخرج من الحكومة وهذا القرار لم يصدر بشكل نهائي واذا خرجنا من الحكومة قد تشكل حكومة اخرى، من قال ان البلد لا يمكن ان يشكل حكومة اخرى"، رافضا تحميل "المسؤولية لاحد في مسألة خض البلد".


Simply Hezbollah is requesting the Lebanese government to establish its sovereignty by ensuring that the state is capable of carrying on the investigation and securing its people. This puppet government is going to daddy, in the international community who appointed it, so that daddy can take care of business, well I think that Lebanon should behave as an independent state that is capable of governing its people and ensuring that this government is granting security to its people and not some international freak who is coming to tell us what to do based on their interests.

I do wish that Hezbollah will leave this government and that a new government that is founded on agreement between all sectors is the one that is taking the decisions on behalf of Lebanon. Do you think that it is normal to have a state that requests the international community to investigate crimes committed on its territory only because the government cannot provide security for its citizens? The Syrians are out, where the hell are the Lebanese. It seems that we got so used to the Syrians now that they are not in any more we are delegating the job to govern us to the International community instead of Syria.
 

AliArz

Active Member
Hezb Has No Choice, Like All Of Us...

Ddiwan,

Hezbollah is entitled to support who they want, as long as they do not support a group that may cause some harm in the region...

In Lebanon, all foreign groups are continuing to harm our land...not only Syria...

So now we have to pick the lesser of all evil...

So if the FM List get a U.S/French mandate, which in my mind, is far more dangerous then a Syrian regime, then why can't Hezb express their concerns?...

Also, no one knows who is doing it now...

We say it's Syria, but no one is 100% sure...

Now, I personally don't think some good will come out for Lebanon from the part of Sooriya and Hezb...in fact, I fear something big coming from their part which will cause disunity among Lebanese, but I can assure you they are not the one to blame.

If America wants the Shiites to unite with the rest of the Lebanese, then they can do it very easily, especially if it's true that they say they learned their lessons from Iraq...

It doesn't take long to do that.

The truth is that the foreign countries want to divide us again, and no one can help us, not even within ourself (and you cited examples yourself).

Ever since Syria's departure, Lebanon has become a danger zone again and an open space for global terrorism...

And we are told that the Americans are securing our region now...so why are they failing?...

Or are they failing?...Maybe they are the ones who is causing this mess and want to make us beleive Syria did it...

Take good care,

Ali Arz
 

LebanonUSA

Well-Known Member
achaaban said:
As for Hezbollahs support for Syria, I do not see anything that is wrong with that, they are not asking Syria to occupy Lebanon again, they are just supportive of Syria. I think that they are entitled to their political position.
achaaban,

Stop mixing Sha3ban b Ramadan. What you said contradicts itself! How can they be supportive of Syria when a neutral international investigation is pointing fingers at the Syrian government's involvement!?!? If like you say, Hizballah's utmost priority is Lebanon, then why are acting this way? Who comes first? Syria? Because that's the way they're acting.

Bachar infamous speech two months ago where he attacked the Prime Minister of Lebanon, THE PRIME MINISTER!, Hizballa akhad 3a khateron how the Council of Ministers were going to discuss it. Did they condemn Syria? No.....

Just to show that Hizballah has Syria very high on its list:

1. March 8, 2005 demo, thanking Syria. Thanking Syria for what? Stealing $40B from Lebanon, or for imprisoning Geagea for 11 years, or for exiling General Aoun for 15 years (after they failed to kill him of course), or for assassinating Rafik Hariri?

2. Condemning Sanioura for standing up to himself after Bachar's speech

3. Running out of the government because Lebanon will ask for an international tribunal (after all, the suspects - who are innocent until proven guilty - are a foreign government!). I don't remember Bosnia or Albania tried Milosevic in Kosovo, Tyranna, or Sarajevo. Precedence my friend...

Hizballah only stands up for Lebanon when we are threatened by Israel. If they cared so much for Lebanon, why don't they also spread out on the Syrian border to avoid infiltration from Syria too?
 

First2Strike

Active Member
achaaban said:
Simply Hezbollah is requesting the Lebanese government to establish its sovereignty by ensuring that the state is capable of carrying on the investigation and securing its people.

WHY NOW????
 

Hye4Lebanon

Well-Known Member
I just hope they stop thinking of only protecting Shiites and start working for a better Lebanon. To stop working with Syria and start working with our Lebanese brothers and unite.

Why is it always they are never with the people of Lebanon and only the Shiites of Lebanon and the government of Syria.

What is Hizbullah's stand for the recent developments?

Unite my brothers and sisters, unite. Our country is bleeding...and needs your help ALL of you!
 

Motorcity

Well-Known Member
Someone, Somewhere have this to say today:

The hezbollah played it wise and kissed the syrian goodbye. Now I bet they're laughing at how we're stuck with them.
That's for a comic version of the not so comic reality.

Not that i agree with him, but it deserves a reflection!
 

First2Strike

Active Member
LebanonUSA said:
achaaban,


Just to show that Hizballah has Syria very high on its list:

1. March 8, 2005 demo, thanking Syria. Thanking Syria for what? Stealing $40B from Lebanon, or for imprisoning Geagea for 11 years, or for exiling General Aoun for 15 years (after they failed to kill him of course), or for assassinating Rafik Hariri?

2. Condemning Sanioura for standing up to himself after Bachar's speech

3. Running out of the government because Lebanon will ask for an international tribunal (after all, the suspects - who are innocent until proven guilty - are a foreign government!). I don't remember Bosnia or Albania tried Milosevic in Kosovo, Tyranna, or Sarajevo. Precedence my friend...

Hizballah only stands up for Lebanon when we are threatened by Israel. If they cared so much for Lebanon, why don't they also spread out on the Syrian border to avoid infiltration from Syria too?

4)and throwing their fellow borther Rustom Ghazale a farewell Bash by honoring him for his great work in lebanon and awarding him a rifle from a fallen israeli soldier during the withdrawl of the syrian army
 

Haruun

Well-Known Member
Interesting point of view we should really refelct upon:

A few minutes ago on LBC Kalem el Nass, Hezbollah MP Hassan Fadlallah or Haballah said something true, he said that if the government cant even protect its own citizens and its internal security how can we expect them to protect the south and the border with Israel (Not an exact quote but something very close).

Personally I think he made a good point, and regardless of the reasons and circumstances why we dont have internal security in Lebanon, this is something we need to take into account and we should discuss this.
 

MEchronicle

Well-Known Member
i think it is diffrent to be able to protect the country from an armed offensive from a nation as opposed to terrorist attacks/coordinated assassination's like the ones in lebanon. No country in the world has a stronger military than the US/UK and they couldn't protect themselves from terror attacks.

I dont think the Hizbollah argument has any merit. If they were truly concerned with the security/soveriegnty of lebanon, they would use their vast arsenal and impressive armed forces to protect lebanese citizens from the bombings that have killed more people in this past year than the Israelis.
 

Motorcity

Well-Known Member
Abu_Talib said:
i think it is diffrent to be able to protect the country from an armed offensive from a nation as opposed to terrorist attacks/coordinated assassination's like the ones in lebanon. No country in the world has a stronger military than the US/UK and they couldn't protect themselves from terror attacks.

I dont think the Hizbollah argument has any merit. If they were truly concerned with the security/soveriegnty of lebanon, they would use their vast arsenal and impressive armed forces to protect lebanese citizens from the bombings that have killed more people in this past year than the Israelis.
Actually Israel invented this style of offense, back from the days of the haganna, till the assasination of ghaleb abu Zainab roughly a year ago!

If it wasn't for hizb's tight security measures, Israel won't miss a chance to terrorize Da7ieh & South residents without making much noise by breaking sound or ethic bariers!
 

mount_amel

Well-Known Member
Haruun-Micayel said:
Interesting point of view we should really refelct upon:

A few minutes ago on LBC Kalem el Nass, Hezbollah MP Hassan Fadlallah or Haballah said something true, he said that if the government cant even protect its own citizens and its internal security how can we expect them to protect the south and the border with Israel (Not an exact quote but something very close).

Personally I think he made a good point, and regardless of the reasons and circumstances why we dont have internal security in Lebanon, this is something we need to take into account and we should discuss this.


Very interesting Haruun !!! It really reflects the reality of the so failed goverment. If we r going to call the FBI and the UN International Court on every incedent that happens , just wait till we see our Lawyers and Judges replacing the poor syrian workers and start selling Ka3ek !!!
Radiculas and Depressing to see such a goverment that cant even make one move without the visiting 3awkar !!!

Salam
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
LebanonUSA said:
achaaban,

Stop mixing Sha3ban b Ramadan. What you said contradicts itself! How can they be supportive of Syria when a neutral international investigation is pointing fingers at the Syrian government's involvement!?!? If like you say, Hizballah's utmost priority is Lebanon, then why are acting this way? Who comes first? Syria? Because that's the way they're acting.

Bachar infamous speech two months ago where he attacked the Prime Minister of Lebanon, THE PRIME MINISTER!, Hizballa akhad 3a khateron how the Council of Ministers were going to discuss it. Did they condemn Syria? No.....

Just to show that Hizballah has Syria very high on its list:

1. March 8, 2005 demo, thanking Syria. Thanking Syria for what? Stealing $40B from Lebanon, or for imprisoning Geagea for 11 years, or for exiling General Aoun for 15 years (after they failed to kill him of course), or for assassinating Rafik Hariri?

2. Condemning Sanioura for standing up to himself after Bachar's speech

3. Running out of the government because Lebanon will ask for an international tribunal (after all, the suspects - who are innocent until proven guilty - are a foreign government!). I don't remember Bosnia or Albania tried Milosevic in Kosovo, Tyranna, or Sarajevo. Precedence my friend...

Hizballah only stands up for Lebanon when we are threatened by Israel. If they cared so much for Lebanon, why don't they also spread out on the Syrian border to avoid infiltration from Syria too?

Can you please explain what does "care for Lebanon mean"? Is Lebanon Hariri or are there 4 million people beside the late Hariri who are Lebanese? Why is a dead man deciding the loyalties of the living? I do not understand what you mean about “care about Lebanon", because I do not know what you mean when you say Lebanon. I know that there are Lebanese people and Hezbollah surely cares about the wellbeing of the Lebanese people that they represent. For me this is sufficient care.

Just to remind you, that these people who call themselves the opposition are actually opposition against Syria, since they are the existing government in Lebanon they cannot oppose themselves. So these people who were the most loyal to Syria when Syria was occupying Lebanon, became the opposition to Syria the government that they presume is the one they should oppose or not. These people, who “care about Lebanon” and consequently oppose Syria, have not done anything for Lebanon since they became government of Lebanon, except attack Syria.

So let those who care about Lebanon continue wasting our time with the dead man that they all want to use his death so that they could convince the international community that they care about Lebanon. And let these who do not care about Lebanon worry about the economy, the social well fare and the security of the Lebanese people. I seem to prefer those who do not care about Lebanon for some odd reason.
 

AliArz

Active Member
South = Keyword

The prediction goes that once the Syrian occupation is out of Lebanon's turf, and after a short term national unity, the Lebanese nation will once again be divided between sects and war will be the new rule of governmentship.

Lebanon will be divided into mini-states...federal states...after brief military battles...

Keep an eye on Meir Dagan.

He is the man responsible for working on the Occupation of the South before it's withdrawal in 2000.

He also took part in the Israeli invasion of Beirut, back in 1982.

Below is a picture of the wicked man who may be involved in all recent events we are witnessing in our country...

 

MEchronicle

Well-Known Member
Motorcity said:
Actually Israel invented this style of offense, back from the days of the haganna, till the assasination of ghaleb abu Zainab roughly a year ago!

If it wasn't for hizb's tight security measures, Israel won't miss a chance to terrorize Da7ieh & South residents without making much noise by breaking sound or ethic bariers!

Hizballah is claiming to keep their arms for the security of all of lebanon not just their leaders and the south & Da7ieh. By your logic christian militias should be allowed to have weapons because their leaders are being killed and their leaders are being killed.
 

Motorcity

Well-Known Member
Abu_Talib said:
Hizballah is claiming to keep their arms for the security of all of lebanon not just their leaders and the south & Da7ieh. By your logic christian militias should be allowed to have weapons because their leaders are being killed and their leaders are being killed.
As far as i know, they say its for the deffense aginst Israel & freeing Shebaa(which I object), i never heared them saying it was for the "security" of Lebanon!
This one is new to me!
 

zevaco

Active Member
Motorcity said:
As far as i know, they say its for the deffense aginst Israel & freeing Shebaa(which I object), i never heared them saying it was for the "security" of Lebanon!
This one is new to me!
motor, they said many times "to protect lebanon"...akeed they didnt mean protect lebanon from the flu or somehting :wink:
 

Motorcity

Well-Known Member
Guys,
I am not going to engage in a Grammer lesson!
Hizb was born as a resistance against Israel, and that was what it did until last week!
When they say deffence of Lebanon, they mean Israel!
I don't think that you argue otherwise much!
 

MEchronicle

Well-Known Member
Motorcity said:
As far as i know, they say its for the deffense aginst Israel & freeing Shebaa(which I object), i never heared them saying it was for the "security" of Lebanon!
This one is new to me!

Hizballah is a valuable group within lebanon. I am not opposed to their existance. Their mandate is outdated for the current situation in lebanon. They are not contributing anything to the security of lebanon right now, They are only protecting themselves. Israel is not as big a threat as the string of bombings and political assissinations being carried out right now. (regardless of who you think is responsible). If the reasoning for blocking the international communities involvement in assissting lebanon right now is that Hizballah would rather see it solved internally, its time they contribute something.
 

Omega80

Well-Known Member
Motorcity said:
Guys,
I am not going to engage in a Grammer lesson!
Hizb was born as a resistance against Israel, and that was what it did until last week!
When they say deffence of Lebanon, they mean Israel!
I don't think that you argue otherwise much!


True, however, like you said, fighting Israel is not enough. They fought them, we are grateful, but would be even more so if they show more loyalty to Lebanon, especially at a time when an MP in the Lebanese Parliament , for example, is murdered. It is all about precedent. If they don't make a big deal about Gebran Tueini, how can they expect everyone to be united and make a big deal with of their MP's had been killed?

When Bashar al-Assad attacked our Prime Minister so harshly, we didn't really see Hezbollah go on the offensive. So let's say one day an Hezbollah Speaker of Parliament gets attacked so harshly by an Arab President, won't they expect the rest of Lebanon to come together to rebut this?
This is what it all boils down to. They are breaking rank when they should not be.


As a secular Shiite, I am telling you that Hezbollah is my representative in Lebanon, so far they are the ones who are talking about the achievement of the interests of Lebanon.

What interests of Lebanon? Maybe regarding Israel, but there is more to the interests of Lebanon than just Israel. At the moment, the Syrians are sending us bombs, killing 3 MP's in 2005. So 3 Members of the Lebanese Parliament have been killed by Syria, and Hezbollah doesn't seem to mind being on the same bandwagon as the Syrians. Seems to question how they really feel about Lebanese democracy, no?

Hezbollah is doing everything they are doing for one simple reason, they want to keep their weapons. Their power is their powers, and they know it. I don't mean they will disappear off the scene without their weapons, but their power and popularity will decrease. They are stifling democracy in the South and Bekaa by not allowing other voices in the area to rise up.

I know in the 2000 elections, the joint Hezbollah/Amal list got 50 percent of the vote, that means 50% of the people in the South did not vote for them.
 
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