On Hezbollah and Recent Events...

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

“Achaaban
As for Hezbollahs support for Syria, I do not see anything that is wrong with that, they are not asking Syria to occupy Lebanon again, they are just supportive of Syria. I think that they are entitled to their political position.”
>> They are entiteled to their own political opinion as long as it doesn’t go against lebanon’s interest. I think in this particular case it is playing very clearly against lebanon’s interest specially when that same country they are defending is insulting our government and calling for distruction of our country.
>> in addition, Hizb can have the right to have his political position … but others cant…right !!!
isn’t hurras el arz member sonly stated their political opinion!!! Are you going to tell me that Israel is an enemy of Lebanon!! Yes you are right but Syria is an enemy as well.

 

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

“Aliarz
Hezbollah is entitled to support who they want, as long as they do not support a group that may cause some harm in the region...”
>>And after all the proofs of the atrocities of the Syrian regime during the last 30 years can you still say that Syria may not cause harm for our coutry and our people!!!

 

[Mighty Goat]

I strongly believe that Hezbollah is loosing their national resistance stance day after day by the way they are reacting. They are proving day after day that they prioritize Syria and sisterly Iran over Lebanon. When anything has to do with Syria, they are always the first ones to defend this sisterly nation and when something happens to a Lebanese parliament member the still do not feel the need to unit with their Lebanese compatriots regardless whether Syria is being accused or not.

I do believe that Hezbollah still has an agenda and working for and for the interest of a foreign country. All their speeches and actions are proofs of such theories.

And which country's interests are you serving? I think that it is time that each one measures what they say and calculate whose interests are they serving.

Parrots you have been and parrots is how you will always be my fellow Lebanese citizens. This is the truth, I wonder why everyone is after the UN to find the truth for them, the truth is that we are not an independent state as long as we are not independent individuals. We will never know the meaning of freedom as long as we refuse to be free individuals. Keep going at Hezbollah, and go on with all those who wish to destroy rather than build, continue to separate rather than unite.

I fail to see that you and I could have common dreams, I fail to see how you and I can live together, you make it impossible to even think about.

 

[Mighty Goat]

“Achaaban
As for Hezbollahs support for Syria, I do not see anything that is wrong with that, they are not asking Syria to occupy Lebanon again, they are just supportive of Syria. I think that they are entitled to their political position.”
>> They are entiteled to their own political opinion as long as it doesn’t go against lebanon’s interest. I think in this particular case it is playing very clearly against lebanon’s interest specially when that same country they are defending is insulting our government and calling for distruction of our country.
>> in addition, Hizb can have the right to have his political position … but others cant…right !!!
isn’t hurras el arz member sonly stated their political opinion!!! Are you going to tell me that Israel is an enemy of Lebanon!! Yes you are right but Syria is an enemy as well.

What is that interest that Hezbollah's alliance with Syria is violating? I would like to know what that interest is. Hezbollah is demanding the return of Chebaa farms and Hezbollah is keeping their weapons until this issue is resolved. I see this very much as serving Lebanon’s interests.

If you do not think that we share this interest then I really suggest that we break this bond and you can have a Lebanon for your self without Hezbollah and the interests that they serve.

 

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

And which country's interests are you serving? I think that it is time that each one measures what they say and calculate whose interests are they serving.

Parrots you have been and parrots is how you will always be my fellow Lebanese citizens. This is the truth, I wonder why everyone is after the UN to find the truth for them, the truth is that we are not an independent state as long as we are not independent individuals. We will never know the meaning of freedom as long as we refuse to be free individuals. Keep going at Hezbollah, and go on with all those who wish to destroy rather than build, continue to separate rather than unite.

I fail to see that you and I could have common dreams, I fail to see how you and I can live together, you make it impossible to even think about.

Please do tell me where i have mentioned anything other than lebanon!! everything you have said doesn't add one inch of facts or argumentation. Where in my post did i mention the UN???
also, please do tell me how is hizb is trying to build using weapons??? last that i heard is that weapons distroy, they do not build!!!

 

[Mighty Goat]

Please do tell me where i have mentioned anything other than lebanon!! everything you have said doesn't add one inch of facts or argumentation. Where in my post did i mention the UN???
also, please do tell me how is hizb is trying to build using weapons??? last that i heard is that weapons distroy, they do not build!!!

You still did not answer my question, of which country's intersts are you serving by disarming Hezbollah while the Chebaa farms are still in Israeli hands? While Lebanon does not have internal security? and while we have a puppet government that is serving the intersts of someone else and this someone else is not the Lebanese population.

 

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

You still did not answer my question, of which country's intersts are you serving by disarming Hezbollah while the Chebaa farms are still in Israeli hands? While Lebanon does not have internal security? and while we have a puppet government that is serving the intersts of someone else and this someone else is not the Lebanese population.

Well, i only talk in the name of Lebanon. to serve only the interests of Lebanon. I couldn't care less about the interests of any other nation. disarming Hizbulla and the palestinians will give legitimacy tothe lebanese gouvernment and the lebanese army over every inch of lebanese land. It will serve Lebanon security and stability interests first!.Didn't we learn that we can't acheive peace with by violence. Also, as i have stated, i think hizbulla is bringing more insecurity to the border than anything else. Let us get back chebaa farms in political ways. Didn't we learn from our borthers the arabs that violence will only bring violence!!

 

[Mighty Goat]

Well, i only talk in the name of Lebanon. to serve only the interests of Lebanon. I couldn't care less about the interests of any other nation. disarming Hizbulla and the palestinians will give legitimacy tothe lebanese gouvernment and the lebanese army over every inch of lebanese land. It will serve Lebanon security and stability interests first!.Didn't we learn that we can't acheive peace with by violence. Also, as i have stated, i think hizbulla is bringing more insecurity to the border than anything else. Let us get back chebaa farms in political ways. Didn't we learn from our borthers the arabs that violence will only bring violence!!

Resolution 1559 lumps Hezbollah, the Syrians, and the Palestinians in one category of groups that are labeled as the enemies of the Lebanese sovereign state. Hezbollah is a Lebanese group that represents 40% of the Lebanese population. So this Resolution has achieved one thing, and that is dividing the Lebanese people into those who support Hezbollah and disagree with such a categorization and those who want to disarm Hezbollah and restore the Lebanese state sovereignty over Lebanon. This sovereignty is not based on the principle of the sovereign people, but the sovereign appointed government by the UN.

The United Nations Resolution 1559 is the main cause of instability in Lebanon at the moment. Because this Resolution has equated the Syrian Occupation and the Palestinians arms with a Lebanese resistance group that was established with a mandate for ending the Israeli occupation of south Lebanon. So how is it possible that a group that was established to restore the Lebanese people’s sovereignty over the south be categorized as a group that is in opposition to the Lebanese sovereign state?

The mere fact that this Resolution is categorizing the Lebanese resistance group Hezbollah, which worked effectively at ending the Israeli occupation of Lebanon and gave back the south of Lebanon its freedom from Israeli occupation, as a militia that is categorized as the enemy of Lebanon does not seem to me as serving the interests of Lebanon at all.

The reason for the conflict that you a Lebanese and I as another Lebanese are having today is only because the United Nations decided to create an enemy inside Lebanon called Hezbollah and along with that enemy there are 40% of the Lebanese population who are categorized by the UN as non Lebanese and as the enemies of Lebanese sovereignty.

 

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

Again please tell me where in my posts i refered to any of UN resolutions or any international requests or demands. what i stated are personal beleifs that concerns best of lebanon's security, stability and iterests.

In addition, where did i label Hizbulla as terrorist?

if lebanon's interest coincides with another countries' interest is not our problem. Are we going to deprive ourselves of something beneficial just for that reson?

 

[Omega80]

Hezbollah is a Lebanese group that represents 40% of the Lebanese population.

Please tell me where you got this statistic from, which is completely false. Hezbollah doesn't even represent half of Shiites and if you read my first post in this thread, you will see examples of this.

 

[Southern Lebanese]

i think it is diffrent to be able to protect the country from an armed offensive from a nation as opposed to terrorist attacks/coordinated assassination's like the ones in lebanon. No country in the world has a stronger military than the US/UK and they couldn't protect themselves from terror attacks.

I dont think the Hizbollah argument has any merit. If they were truly concerned with the security/soveriegnty of lebanon, they would use their vast arsenal and impressive armed forces to protect lebanese citizens from the bombings that have killed more people in this past year than the Israelis.

I am afraid that their argument has every merit in the world. Who said that Israeli threat is only by their armed organised offensive. I think you know moussad and I think you know their attempts (failed and succeeded) to kill and murder Hizb members and leaders (and they are in big numbers in the south). When Hizb is saying he will not lay his arms until Israeli threat is gone, he is not only talking about invasion or massive attacks but also against their ability to infiltrate internal scenes of a country and play with the civil war card and I should say sadly, they are masters in that. So Hizb is also worried about the south (that is part in Lebanon). Moreover, I should say: why they are not using their arsenal? Because they are not that strong to cover all Lebanese territory (and if they are and asked to-I doubt it because they will not ask shia since people are afraid of them-they would love to do so). With all due respect to Hizb supporters, I think lot of people are trying to put responsabilities and accusations on Hizb more than his capacity. After all, Hizb is not a government or a country, he is part of Lebanon and he completes Lebanese authority and will not, do not want to, and cannot replace it.

 

[Southern Lebanese]

And which country's interests are you serving? I think that it is time that each one measures what they say and calculate whose interests are they serving.

Parrots you have been and parrots is how you will always be my fellow Lebanese citizens. This is the truth, I wonder why everyone is after the UN to find the truth for them, the truth is that we are not an independent state as long as we are not independent individuals. We will never know the meaning of freedom as long as we refuse to be free individuals. Keep going at Hezbollah, and go on with all those who wish to destroy rather than build, continue to separate rather than unite.

I fail to see that you and I could have common dreams, I fail to see how you and I can live together, you make it impossible to even think about.

THANK YOU!

 

[Southern Lebanese]

And which country's interests are you serving? I think that it is time that each one measures what they say and calculate whose interests are they serving.

Parrots you have been and parrots is how you will always be my fellow Lebanese citizens. This is the truth, I wonder why everyone is after the UN to find the truth for them, the truth is that we are not an independent state as long as we are not independent individuals. We will never know the meaning of freedom as long as we refuse to be free individuals. Keep going at Hezbollah, and go on with all those who wish to destroy rather than build, continue to separate rather than unite.

I fail to see that you and I could have common dreams, I fail to see how you and I can live together, you make it impossible to even think about.

And a bigger "THANK YOU"

 

[Southern Lebanese]

Again please tell me where in my posts i refered to any of UN resolutions or any international requests or demands. what i stated are personal beleifs that concerns best of lebanon's security, stability and iterests.

In addition, where did i label Hizbulla as terrorist?

if lebanon's interest coincides with another countries' interest is not our problem. Are we going to deprive ourselves of something beneficial just for that reson?

You did not label them terrorists, you did not mention anything about 1559. But the so-called "international community" did. The argument of we cannot ignore the 1559 while dealing with Lebanese partners is popping out at every political discussion in the government. If you want to ignore the effect of 1559 resolution (second part essentially) on the Lebanese internal scene, go see the rhetorics (not outside but inside the Lebanese society and inside this forum and inside other forums) about Hizb being out out of Government authority. IT IS THE SAME RHETORIC. And this resolution that you did not mention explicitly, you are mentioning it implicitly by pointing of how Hizb is out protecting a sect while it was always seen as a resistance. I would urge every body to go and review the effect of that resolution on us, the Lebanese and how you say this helps Lebanon but "at the same time Israel". Sorry, the second part of 1559 only helps Israel, US interests (and please do not ask me how because it is more obvious that anyone can see) and never Lebanon. Lebanon may be heading to internal conflict (and sadly a potential civil war) because of it. Lebanese are not only Lebanese now, they are Lebanese and non-Lebanese that needs to enter the national unity umbrella (Hizb). Sad if you do not see that and sad that the same logic is still used. Now Hizb and shia mostly are out of the governement. After that, they are out of the Lebanese scene. And for who is saying that Hizb is not 40% of the Lebanese population, do not worry, I will go with you and say their committed members are 20% of the Lebanese population (hope a survey will be held and you will be surprised). Still, good luck in ignoring them.

 

[Mighty Goat]

Please tell me where you got this statistic from, which is completely false. Hezbollah doesn't even represent half of Shiites and if you read my first post in this thread, you will see examples of this.

The seats that Hezbollah and Amal hold in the Parliament are called the Shiites seats, so in the Lebanese system of government which is not a democracy, the Shiites (100% of them) are represented by the Shiite who wins those seats in the government. Hezbollah and Amal in Lebanon represents all the Shiites, since they did win all the Shiite seats in the Parliament.

As for this theory of yours which is focuses on the premise that not all the Shiites agree with Hezbollah as their representative, it really means nothing, whether the Shiites agree or disagree on the Hezb being their representative, the sectarian system of government enforces the sectarian representation over those who agree and those who do not agree with Hezbollah, and mind you 50 % voting them as the Shiite representative simply means that the other 50 % does not have the right to choose another representative, because the sectarian system prevents them from doing just that.

 

[Leb_Ashrafieh]

I wonder who arethe perrots!!!
every time someone mention the issue of hizb weapons, they need to go back to 1559. every time someone mention the issue of hizb weapons they need to go back and see who else benefits from this issue.

let me put it in bolds for you:
I do not care if it suits the isrealy and the us interests. if it suits the lebanese interest then i am all for it.

I have told you previously my opinion is that hizb weapons is bringing more insecurity to lebanon than stability and security. Thats a PURE LEBANESE OPINION. if you can't handle that, then tell me how are you open for discussions !!!

 

[Southern Lebanese]

I wonder who arethe perrots!!!
every time someone mention the issue of hizb weapons, they need to go back to 1559. every time someone mention the issue of hizb weapons they need to go back and see who else benefits from this issue.

let me put it in bolds for you:
I do not care if it suits the isrealy and the us interests. if it suits the lebanese interest then i am all for it.

I have told you previously my opinion is that hizb weapons is bringing more insecurity to lebanon than stability and security. Thats a PURE LEBANESE OPINION. if you can't handle that, then tell me how are you open for discussions !!!

First, thank you for wondering but I do not care if you call me perrot or not. Second, why bringing 1559: BECAUSE IT IS THE MAIN CAUSE OF CONFLICT BETWEEN HIZB AND THE REST OF THE LEBANESE. Just reread your phrase: "every time someone mention the issue of hizb weapons, they need to go back to 1559". Hmm. THE 1559 calls for taking Hizb weapons so you may see the link of bringing them together. Every time some "majority" members come to discuss the Hizb weapons, THEY bring up the 1559 and say the bla bla bla about international law and how we cannot disrespect. On the other hand, Hizb said that the second part of 1559 is forgotten so they are not bringing it up. So this 1559 is made to pressure Hizb (with all due respect to your logic about made by france and USA to bring democracy and have one strong army to Lebanon) and it is used by some Lebanese (tell THEM not to bringing it up)to keep this pressure for political and power related reasons. I will not be more honest.

Second, you do not care if it suits the Israeli interests or US one, well, I DO CARE. Deal with it if you are open for discussion as you said. And third, about Hizb weapons bringing insecurity for Lebanon. I will put it in simple words: they are having the weapons only for defense and reaction to any infiltration of ISRAELIS, never and will not be used against Lebanese, not roaming around in the public. So even I will not discuss the answer if it is bringing TO YOU insecurity or not, I will say that the way it is brought to discussion and handled by the some Lebanese (go check them calling Hizb omala after giving three martyrs in Shebaa, or puppets when they do not agree with international court and the other popular accusations you hear in the streets) is bringing more insecurity than the weapons themselves.

 

[pfares]

The seats that Hezbollah and Amal hold in the Parliament are called the Shiites seats, so in the Lebanese system of government which is not a democracy, the Shiites (100% of them) are represented by the Shiite who wins those seats in the government.

And in Baath regime (Saddam and Assad) have always 99,99% but do you think that these result represent the reality?

 

[Southern Lebanese]

And in Baath regime (Saddam and Assad) have always 99,99% but do you think that these result represent the reality?

What are you trying to proove. No, of course they do not represent in reality 100% of shiites. Does 70% enough. Or what? They represent the big majority of the biggest sect in Lebanon and that can not be ignored. Is that better? Or you want official statistics in Lebanon to proove that. Statistics that they do not oppose by the way! And second, what are you implying by using Baathi Regime? Are you trying to imply that they are dictators enforcing their opinion on all the shiites (or the famous hijacking their opinion or brainwashing them). If you did not mean that, it is fine. If you did, get over it. They are that powerful in their sect and they do not need to proove it. Instead of trying to lying to urself and saying that they are not that powerful there and they do not represent that majority, deal with it in a constructive way.

 

[joseph_lubnan]

What matters above all is the well being of Lebanon and its people.
Lebanon needs to clean house and consolidate its control on security within the country. This cannot happen with many factions still holding weapons outside the national army and security departments. All weapons must be removed from Hizbullah and the palestinians. All arguments against cleaning the weapons issue are not in the best interest of Lebanons. Anyone that beleives otherwise is either naive, brainwashed or worse working against the stability and prosperity of Lebanon.

In my opinion Hizbullah can support a gov or withdraw and is entitled to have his opinions and act upon them. What Hizbullah is not entitled to have is arms. not even a single bullet.