Only 36% of Lebanese voters are Christian

[Mighty Goat]

I don't believe there's a big cultural gap between Lebanese Christians and Muslims.
Most urbanized Lebanese youth are shunning old traditions and adopting a more Western lifestyle, whether they're Christian or Muslim.
If you go to Mar Mikhael, you'd notice that half of the clientele is Muslim.

The cultural differences exist mainly between the Hizbullah community/Jame3a Islemiyyeh/Salafists and the rest of Lebanon.

That's why there's a perceived cultural divide between Muslims and Christians. But in truth, it's a divide between Christians/secular Sunnis/secular Shiites on one side and Shia and Sunni Islamists on the other side.

The cultural divide argument started emerging when Christian nationalists wanted to divide Lebanon based on what is recognized internationally as a nation. The Kulturnation in comparison with the Staatnation, are two concepts of nationalism that came out of Europe. The former was in Germany in response to the latter which emerged from the French Revolution. In the French concept, culture, race and language does not make the nation, but the territorial state defines the population and its identity.

The Germans on the other hand constructed nations based on "culture" and "cultural differences" to separate the German from the Jew. German nationalism takes biology, culture, and tribal roots as central to the idea of the nation.

Pierre Gemayel was the pioneer of constructing the concept of the cultural nation into the Lebanese Christian identity, something he admired in and learned from Nazi Germany.

 

[gramsci]

What did he do to you to call him a criminal. I wonder why you waste your time criticizing the representative of the Shi'a in Parliament and we never hear about the criminal your are voting for, I mean a bit of self criticism is what makes an argument hold some validity.

I see all Christians not wanting Berri and attacking Berri, when he is not their representative and they do not vote for him. I wonder why.

Tell us what you are doing to change the leadership that is representing your own sect. It is Christians who are sovereign and they are the executive power. This is not Berri.'

Berri is good. I like him because it seems to me that all sectarian Christians hate him for some reason and I am certain this reason is within sectarianism. It is he does not submit or convert under the Christian sword, like Hezbollah does.

I can give u a list of names that he held responsability of their assassination . Is that enough to consider him a criminal ?
I can start with 2 names if u want . And let u do your homework .since i suppose u live in the south , so u can do ur research..

 

[Manifesto]

The cultural divide argument started emerging when Christian nationalists wanted to divide Lebanon based on what is recognized internationally as a nation. The Kulturnation in comparison with the Staatnation, are two concepts of nationalism that came out of Europe. The former was in Germany in response to the latter which emerged from the French Revolution. In the French concept, culture, race and language does not make the nation, but the territorial state defines the population and its identity.

The Germans on the other hand constructed nations based on "culture" and "cultural differences" to separate the German from the Jew. German nationalism takes biology, culture, and tribal roots as central to the idea of the nation.

Pierre Gemayel was the pioneer of constructing the concept of the cultural nation into the Lebanese Christian identity, something he admired in and learned from Nazi Germany.

WB Goat!

 

[Mockinggbird]

I don't believe there's a big cultural gap between Lebanese Christians and Muslims.
Most urbanized Lebanese youth are shunning old traditions and adopting a more Western lifestyle, whether they're Christian or Muslim.
If you go to Mar Mikhael, you'd notice that half of the clientele is Muslim.

The cultural differences exist mainly between the Hizbullah community/Jame3a Islemiyyeh/Salafists and the rest of Lebanon.

That's why there's a perceived cultural divide between Muslims and Christians. But in truth, it's a divide between Christians/secular Sunnis/secular Shiites on one side and Shia and Sunni Islamists on the other side.

which truth you are talking about ?
it's funny when someone takes one small example to try and mask reality
reality is 90% of chi3a vote for two very sectarian chi3a parties
where is the secular in all of this??
if you have a chi3a friend that likes to go and get drunk in mar mkhayel this doesn't mean anything at all
this is and remains the exception and as far as I know chi3a in the 70's were much more moderte than today
so this doesn't mean than chi3a in mar mkhayel is a start of any chnage at all
in 10 years from now chi3a community might be much more conservative than today and this is the most probable scenario
in nabatiyeh for example you can get killed if you sell almaza
stop fooling people around you and stop fooling youslef
the gap is just HUUGE between christians and muslims in Lebanon

 

[Manifesto]

which truth you are talking about ?
it's funny when someone takes one small example to try and mask reality
reality is 90% of chi3a vote for two very sectarian chi3a parties
where is the secular in all of this??
if you have a chi3a friend that likes to go and get drunk in mar mkhayel this doesn't mean anything at all
this is and remains the exception and as far as I know chi3a in the 70's were much more moderte than today
so this doesn't mean than chi3a in mar mkhayel is a start of any chnage at all
in 10 years from now chi3a community might be much more conservative than today and this is the most probable scenario
in nabatiyeh for example you can get killed if you sell almaza
stop fooling people around you and stop fooling youslef
the gap is just HUUGE between christians and muslims in Lebanon

Read my post carefully. I said the gap is mainly between Christians and Islamists, not necessarily Muslims. Unfortunately, the majority of Shiites happen to have Islamist tendencies at the moment.
This cultural and ideological difference manifested itself recently when Gibran made it clear that he doesn't oppose the existence of Israel. For Shiites, the existence of Israel in itself is problematic and they call for the annihilation of the Jewish state.

Beiruti Sunnis and Druze, on the other hand, are not in a cultural clash with Christians. The majority of Sunnis support Hariri not Ahmed el Assir. Despite their alliance with Saudi Arabia, they would be the first to oppose Sharia law in Lebanon.

For many Shiites, Wilayat el Faqih would be a dream come true.

 

[Rafidi]

Read my post carefully. I said the gap is mainly between Christians and Islamists, not necessarily Muslims. Unfortunately, the majority of Shiites happen to have Islamist tendencies at the moment.
This cultural and ideological difference manifested itself recently when Gibran made it clear that he doesn't oppose the existence of Israel. For Shiites, the existence of Israel in itself is problematic and they call for the annihilation of the Jewish state.

Beiruti Sunnis and Druze, on the other hand, are not in a cultural clash with Christians. The majority of Sunnis support Hariri not Ahmed el Assir. Despite their alliance with Saudi Arabia, they would be the first to oppose Sharia law in Lebanon.

For many Shiites, Wilayat el Faqih would be a dream come true.

The problem is when online akareet like yourself want to speak for others. Is nabih Berri an islamist? Ma hadan selem min gebran. El khasseh kabraneh. Don't politicize and victimize the resistance, and the overwhelming majority of shia in Lebanon are far from being islamists. They are nationalists.

First of all, based on Lebanese law, there is nothing like a "Jewish state" in Palestine. So there is really no Jewish state to annihilate. The shia, as per Lebanese law, want a one state solution and the return of the Palestinians to their land. However, if gebran wants to recognize a Jewish state in Palestine, he should be ready to naturalize the Palestinians in Lebanon. Do you know why? Because its a "Jewish state" and it will have the right to determine whom it admits into its occupied territories and whom it doesn't admit. Gebran has no right to decide for Lebanon as a whole. Not even his uncle, who's the president make unilateral decisions the way gebran behaves like an adolescent who wants to break free of parental supervision.

 

[Manifesto]

I will only trust Maronites in government when they change the name of the Armenian Orthodox seat in Burj Hammooud to Orthodox only. Then Lebanese Shi'a from Burj Hammoud can convert to Orthodox and be qualified to apply for Parliamentary elections as candidates.

Not only that Armenian is not Lebanese, but an ethnicity that is foreign, but also a Shi'a cannot convert to Armenian and qualify for the seat. Why not have a seat in Parliament called Palestinian Sunnis. I think this would be at par with Armenian Orthodox. We may also get a few Syrians and make a seat for Syrian Sunnis and Syrian Orthodox.

Armenian Orthodox is as much a sect of its own as it is an ethnicity. It's not exactly the same as Greek Orthodox. That's why it's named Armenian Orthodox. But if an an Armenian converts to Maronitism, he can run for a Maronite seat.

 

[Mighty Goat]

WB Goat!

I missed you and I like your thread.

 

[Mighty Goat]

I can give u a list of names that he held responsability of their assassination . Is that enough to consider him a criminal ?
I can start with 2 names if u want . And let u do your homework .since i suppose u live in the south , so u can do ur research..

Do not suppose I live in the south because I do not live there.

 

[Manifesto]

The problem is when online akareet like yourself want to speak for others. Is nabih Berri an islamist? Ma hadan selem min gebran. El khasseh kabraneh. Don't politicize and victimize the resistance, and the overwhelming majority of shia in Lebanon are far from being islamists. They are nationalists.

First of all, based on Lebanese law, there is nothing like a "Jewish state" in Palestine. So there is really no Jewish state to annihilate. The shia, as per Lebanese law, want a one state solution and the return of the Palestinians to their land. However, if gebran wants to recognize a Jewish state in Palestine, he should be ready to naturalize the Palestinians in Lebanon. Do you know why? Because its a "Jewish state" and it will have the right to determine whom it admits into its occupied territories and whom it doesn't admit. Gebran has no right to decide for Lebanon as a whole. Not even his uncle, who's the president make unilateral decisions the way gebran behaves like an adolescent who wants to break free of parental supervision.

Nabih Berri may not be wearing a black turban or sporting a beard, but he's a very sectarian man. He's a Shiite feudal warlord masquerading as a liberal man. The very definition of a thug. If only Moussa el Sadr knew who succeeded him.

 

[Mighty Goat]

Nabih Berri may not be wearing a black turban or sporting a beard, but he's a very sectarian man. He's a Shiite feudal warlord masquerading as a liberal man. The very definition of a thug. If only Moussa el Sadr knew who succeeded him.

Can you imagine him to be anything but a sectarian thug in a system founded by sectarian warlords. He is the perfect sectarian thug in the sectarian system of sectarian thugs. Imagine if he was a lamb among the wolves, we would also hate him for being just that.

 

[Manifesto]

Can you imagine him to be anything but a sectarian thug in a system founded by sectarian warlords. He is the perfect sectarian thug in the sectarian system of sectarian thugs. Imagine if he was a lamb among the wolves, we would also hate him for being just that.

I lost all my respect for him when his supporters were attacking Al Jadeed TV headquarters and he didn't even call then to stop. Not only did he remain silent, but one of his MPs even phoned Al Jadeed and started blaming them for instigating the violence.

 

[flag-waver]

There is a nice piece here about demography and the christians BUT more needs to be done.
https://www.lstatic.org/PDF/demographenglish.pdf

 

[Mighty Goat]

Federalism will not work because it will create more internal divisions and place people against each. It becomes each federating unit against the other. And within each unit with mixed communities, there will be hot sectarian competition.

Having a presidential system with the people directly voting, and the president and the vice coming from different religions enshrined in the constitution will work. The cabinet will still be 50/50. Senate will be 50/50. The Parliament will reflect the population proportionally. In other words, we need a new constitution. We are basically breaking barriers whereby govt posts are not monopolized by one community or the other. Or reserved for a particular community. Instead, we are having fair representation and coexistence. Instead of apportioning the presidency to Maronite and pm to Sunnis and speaker to shia, we can have a Muslim president and a christian vice president. A christian senate president and a Muslim deputy senate president. A christian speaker and a Muslim deputy speaker. Or vice versa. It means any lebanese can have the chance to be anything anywhere and in any post. But in the spirit of equity whereby the top two positions are occupied by two men from the two different religions in the country. Its fairness and equity and equal opportunities in the spirit of tolerance and coexistence.

Good, but what do you mean with "The cabinet will still be 50/50"? I think neither cabinet nor parliament should be 50/50. The Senate in theory should be symbolic of the sectarian groups that live in Lebanon, their task is to ensure that government and Parliament do not use their majority to discriminate against any sect. Their task is not legislative. They play a role in a system of checks and balances, where when the majority in cabinet and parliament is of one sect that this sect would not abuse power. The Senate is the Godfather.

 

[Lebanese-Nationalist]

I've always wondered about this map from the 1980s which showed Christians as only 25%.

What happened to change this or was this estimate inaccurate even for the time?

 

[Sayyid Jewry]

I don't believe there's a big cultural gap between Lebanese Christians and Muslims.
Most urbanized Lebanese youth are shunning old traditions and adopting a more Western lifestyle, whether they're Christian or Muslim.
If you go to Mar Mikhael, you'd notice that half of the clientele is Muslim.

The cultural differences exist mainly between the Hizbullah community/Jame3a Islemiyyeh/Salafists and the rest of Lebanon.

That's why there's a perceived cultural divide between Muslims and Christians. But in truth, it's a divide between Christians/secular Sunnis/secular Shiites on one side and Shia and Sunni Islamists on the other side.

Except "secular Shiites" all stand behind Hizbullah and Amal, and "secular Sunnis" are considered ISIS on this forum.

 

[Manifesto]

Except "secular Shiites" all stand behind Hizbullah and Amal, and "secular Sunnis" are considered ISIS on this forum.

Hey, no one accused Oroomers of being smart

 

[Frostbite]

which truth you are talking about ?
it's funny when someone takes one small example to try and mask realit
reality is 90% of chi3a vote for two very sectarian chi3a parties
where is the secular in all of this??
if you have a chi3a friend that likes to go and get drunk in mar mkhayel this doesn't mean anything at all
this is and remains the exception and as far as I know chi3a in the 70's were much more moderte than today
so this doesn't mean than chi3a in mar mkhayel is a start of any chnage at all
in 10 years from now chi3a community might be much more conservative than today and this is the most probable scenario
in nabatiyeh for example you can get killed if you sell almaza
stop fooling people around you and stop fooling youslef
the gap is just HUUGE between christians and muslims in Lebanon

Min Wayne Hyda Jayabha: in nabatiyeh for example you can get killed if you sell almaza Can you back up this Statement ? Ya Birdy

 

[flag-waver]

View attachment 9891
I've always wondered about this map from the 1980s which showed Christians as only 25%.

What happened to change this or was this estimate inaccurate even for the time?

Man no one knows anything.
All I can say is if Metn has 750K population, Keserwen-Jbeil 250K people. That is 1 million people and at least 90% christian.
Matn District - Wikipedia
No one really knows the population of the country nor the demographics.

 

[Leb_Rebel]

Except "secular Shiites" all stand behind Hizbullah and Amal, and "secular Sunnis" are considered ISIS on this forum.

They do that because the government has still been unable to fulfil its role in the predominantly shiite regions so those parties took its place.

Regardless of the reason behind the absence, for that approach to change, political leaders should stop acting in a short term approach of only looking after their areas in a bid to renew their mandate in 4 years.