Partitionning Lebanon

Robin Hood

Robin Hood

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Lebanon's current governance system is already in a perverse way a form of de facto sectarian federalism, except it is an ill-organized mess. Why not organize the mess, while embarking on a very long term education journey?
Because by the time we launch this journey, we would have created another huge mess.
 
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  • gramsci

    gramsci

    Legendary Member
    I dont think that religions can live together in love and peace .. And making lebanon a land of experiment for that cost us loads of war ... Thats due to the nature of religious ideologies itself and their missionary tendences and struggle for hegemony and power ... In lebanon there is 2 choices : a complete secular country or a decentralisation ( some form of federalism ) ..
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think Lebanon should not e partitioned, but have it's order redrawn. If Tripoli wants to be part of an Islamist caliphate, then Allah ma3 dweliboun. If Bsharreh like the terrorists, then Allah ma3 dwelioun. Maybe Lebanon should become a Shia-Christian federation, or be only a country for non-sectarian people. When was the last time Shias and Christians fought? Not even during the civil war did we fight each other.
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think Lebanon should not e partitioned, but have it's order redrawn. If Tripoli wants to be part of an Islamist caliphate, then Allah ma3 dweliboun. If Bsharreh like the terrorists, then Allah ma3 dwelioun. Maybe Lebanon should become a Shia-Christian federation, or be only a country for non-sectarian people. When was the last time Shias and Christians fought? Not even during the civil war did we fight each other.
    You touched on the solution. The only way forward is to remove god from the constitution, political/legal system, and social affairs. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law. Therefore anyone can be anything in the government, without the quota and division bullshit. Make the system completely devoid of religion, and let people, if they choose, to practice their religion in the privacy of their homes and temples only. But who am I kidding? We love to hold on to our superstitions and imagninary friends, refuse to see otherwise, identify the sectarian problem, and resolve it with partitioning. Are we crazy or what?
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    Yemen to Become Six-Region Federation


    We can easily become a 4 region federation. Nothing wrong with that. We're not better than Switzerland or Germany.
    No, we're not better than Switzerland or Germany, that's why it might be too soon to make Lebanon a Federation.

    Why? Because most Lebanese, including the politicians and lawmakers, believe that Federalism means that laws would differ from region to region.

    That might be true in part, but there's a difference: fundamental rights are unique and applicable, not only throughout Germany, but throughout the EU and Europe.

    A consequence of federalism in Lebanon would be that Muslim-majority regions would believe that they would be able to legislate on complete ban of alcohol. In certain cases, perhaps laws on dress-codes for women and men would apply!

    In Federal government theories and laws, differences in fundamental rights do not and should not be different. Federalism is more used to federate and regionalize certain competences such as economic policies, fiscal policies, education, territory management, energy and water, etc., not basic rights!
     
    Placebo

    Placebo

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    No, we're not better than Switzerland or Germany, that's why it might be too soon to make Lebanon a Federation.

    Why? Because most Lebanese, including the politicians and lawmakers, believe that Federalism means that laws would differ from region to region.

    That might be true in part, but there's a difference: fundamental rights are unique and applicable, not only throughout Germany, but throughout the EU and Europe.

    A consequence of federalism in Lebanon would be that Muslim-majority regions would believe that they would be able to legislate on complete ban of alcohol. In certain cases, perhaps laws on dress-codes for women and men would apply!

    In Federal government theories and laws, differences in fundamental rights do not and should not be different. Federalism is more used to federate and regionalize certain competences such as economic policies, fiscal policies, education, territory management, energy and water, etc., not basic rights!
    I totally agree, it should be more of a decentralization and not completely different rules and rights. However as we are the pioneers of strange laws and situations, Having different rules in the different lebanese regions is conceivable. (it's partially applied already).
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    I totally agree, it should be more of a decentralization and not completely different rules and rights. However as we are the pioneers of strange laws and situations, Having different rules in the different lebanese regions is conceivable. (it's partially applied already).
    Federalism would not work. Who is in charge of the federal govt? The army? It will hit the wall again.

    If Lebanon is to be divided, completely separate states. Let each sect deal with its own problems.

    Since the population is so sectarian, give them the model they deserve, education and co-existance is not in the genes.
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    Federalism would not work. Who is in charge of the federal govt? The army? It will hit the wall again.

    If Lebanon is to be divided, completely separate states. Let each sect deal with its own problems.

    Since the population is so sectarian, give them the model they deserve, education and co-existance is not in the genes.
    Who is in charge of the Federal government in the US, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, etc.? Creating federated entities does not eliminate democracy at Federal level, except in the Lebanese mindset which you just gave a flagrant example of...
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    Who is in charge of the Federal government in the US, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, etc.? Creating federated entities does not eliminate democracy at Federal level, except in the Lebanese mindset which you just gave a flagrant example of...
    Adding a personal attack does not make an idea more credible.

    you want to build a federal govt like the US and germany? :)

    I am asking you how will it work when people are sectarian. who will be in charge of the federal govt. the central bank. the army. the customs. We are still at the same problem. Federal or not.
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    Adding a personal attack does not make an idea more credible.

    you want to build a federal govt like the US and germany? :)

    I am asking you how will it work when people are sectarian. who will be in charge of the federal govt. the central bank. the army. the customs. We are still at the same problem. Federal or not.
    As you may see from my previous post, I am not advocating for this in Lebanon precisely because people in Lebanon, the people, the legislators and the politicians, don't understand federalism at all!

    If you federalize Lebanon, or any country for that matter, you need to specify what powers are federated and what powers become regionalized. As you may know, Texas and North Rhine-Westphalia don't have their own army or central bank. There is only one German Central bank, and most of its powers now lie in the European Central bank.

    Likewise, Lebanon will maintain a national army and central bank.

    Some public services might fall into smaller entities' hands: Public works, urban planning, energy, water management, education (regional and/or communautarian powers), etc.

    Defederalizing some public services is in many cases considered beneficial because it improves its management and increases competitiveness. Local and district police might be more efficient at keeping the streets safe, but a national police is still needed to organize larger protection. Likewise, energy and water management might be more efficient at smaller scales, but resources still need to be pooled at a minimum. You cannot however divide the central bank nor the army.
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    Exactly. And some parts of akkar.
    Ma tghallit ma3 3akkar!!!

    Besides, where would you get your shanklish from if we were to secede? 3akkar is the heart and soul of Lebanon and has produced so many great men and women...

    Granted, having Hady Hobeiche and Khaled el Daher as MPs is not a great from a branding perspective but still...
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Ma tghallit ma3 3akkar!!!

    Besides, where would you get your shanklish from if we were to secede? 3akkar is the heart and soul of Lebanon and has produced so many great men and women...

    Granted, having Hady Hobeiche and Khaled el Daher as MPs is not a great from a branding perspective but still...
    That's why he said parts :)
    After all, anyone who votes for Hady Hobeiche and Khaled el Daher doesn't deserve to live in this country
     
    Aegon

    Aegon

    Active Member
    Lets see how Syria ends up first then we will discuss our future as a country. Maybe if Syria does partition it will no longer have the ability to control Lebanon like it has always done. No matter what though, the "Glory days" of Bashar's Syria are long gone, no matter who wins the war.
     
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