Paying in $ for an apartment still under construction

[SeaAb]

@Abou Sandal said it all and is 100% right. You are in control, not him. The law states that you can pay him in LBP at the official rate, which is 1507. Don't overthink it.

@Abou Sandal is steering them to the courts, 3am bi2awwe soo2o when they both file lawsuits.

 

[Murder he wrote]

This is where you got it wrong and he is blackmailing you over, and succeeding.

So again, the cheque is by law, a legal mean of payment. If he refuses to take the cheque, then it means he is refusing a perfectly legal payment. And in that case, he doesn't have the right to break the contract, let alone claim any sort of breach from your part.

Then again, if you're afraid that he reimburses you on the basis of 1500 in case of termination, (which only a judge can decide) then you understand well that anyone can perfectly pay his USD dues in Lebanese Pounds at the rate of 1500. Which is actually what the law stipulates.

In such case, just use that fact to your advantage. Go to the public notary, deposit your dues in Lebanese Pounds at the official rate, and notify him to come and cash them. By doing so, you would have legally fulfilled your obligations and he has no legal ground to claim otherwise. He can accept to cash them or not, but that wouldn't change a thing. You would still have legally fulfilled your obligations towards him, either way.

And if the whole amount that you are supposed to pay him until the end of the contract is not too big, then put all of it at the public notary at the rate of 1500 and notify him to cash it all, with the mention that you have fulfilled all your contractual obligations, absolving yourself from any liability, asking him to fulfill his obligations on due time.

Understand first that you need to stop listening to the seller and believing everything or anything he says. And stop calling him "the owner". He is not the owner. He is the seller and YOU are the owner now. The property is legally yours unless a judge rules out otherwise.

Bottom line is: If you fail to reach a fair compromise with the seller, along the lines and boundaries we talked about earlier, then you should immediately do all that is mentioned above, under the supervision of a lawyer, who will take appropriate legal measures to protect and enforce your rights.

You have the uncontested legal advantage and upper hand on all counts, and you should hence impose your fair solution on him, instead of submitting to his greedy and inconsiderate and unreasonable wishes and claims and demands.

Wow thanks a lot. Do you mind if I show you the contract in private? or it won't work like that? Thanks a lot man!

 

[shadow1]

You paid 40K usd in 2018. If you generated this money in Lebanon then effectively 35K out of that was anoverpayment to you financed by debt. (the illusion of wealth). What you actually lost is five K, a month's salary if you migrate to a decent country. And think about it positively: Had you put the 40K in the bank in Lebanese Lira, it would have lost 80 percent of its purchasing power by now. Had you put it in a Lebanese bank in USD most likely you would have lost 60% of it so far . And if you keep it in the bank till next year, in all likelihood you will lose the lot. So, assuming that you will ever get your apartment , you did the right thing except that the odds are the contractor will abandon the project and whatever equity you have will be tied up in courts. Let your children deal with it for unless you have a 100 year life expectancy you will not see any resolution in your life time.

So what are your options now? First you say your income n 2M LL. Before the end of summer if not much earlier that income will be worth less than a 100USD. How are you going to meet your 500usd monthly payment if you don’t have a foreign source of income? You wont.

Best thing you do is to find a good decent judge who still accepts bribes in LL to rule in your favour. And lets face it a judge who still accepts bribes in LL is not a very effective judge. Most likely he got his law degree from Homs university. But even if you succeed in getting a favourable ruling, there is no one to enforce it. It’s a matter of very short few months before all the security forces (army, police, internal security etc) disintegrate. And unless you are a member of the parties in govt now, plus the mustakbal or PSP you have a buckley’s chance of getting anything. So pay someone few loaves of bread to rough up the contractor.

Your best option is to convert to Shiism then you are above the law and, to have a slam duck case, join any of their two parties. You might get some relief unless of course the contractor has already beaten you to the punch and joined those parties. It’s easy; all you have to do is say you believe Hizbullah will liberate Palestine. If you become Shiite you would genuinely believe that but if you are not you would see ski slopes in hell much sooner.

Most people do not want to admit the scale of the catastrophe but deep down they sense it and know it. The politicians, the head of the central bank, the bankers are all lying about the reality of the situation for your own safety. They know if they tell you the truce you might be tempted to rise up for your rights and that will draw the ire of Hizbullah which will result in a carnage. What Hizbullah has been working for for 30 years and now so close to reaping its rewards isn’t about to be scuppered right now. The man in Ba2aba is running out of platitudes to give you so expect nothing from him. He was handed a poisoned chalice and he happily took it if only to be remembered as the last Christian president of Lebanon. On that score he might have to compete with his son-in-law who might cut a deal with Hariri on the distribution of the gold reserves and secure the presidency. ALL The politicians have sent ALL their money overseas so they can easily play a game of brinkmanship with each other and dance on the edge of the precipice. They have their people to die for them.

What I am telling you in essence is that cut your losses and walk away from the deal if you are bound to pay in USD.. That same apartment or even a better one you will be able to buy for 40K sooner than you expect assuming you are one of the lucky ones to survive the bloody upheaval about to be unleashed in the country.

You say you want to sell it and go overseas. The sooner you do it the better. Beware all exits out of the country might close up soon and you will be like someone trapped inside a house on fire with no exits. The fact that you can still stick your head out for a bout of fresh air doesn’t mean the fire will not affect you. Yet in the middle of this apocalypse you must be thankful it happened in 3ahd l 2awi. Just imagine what the situation might have been if we had a wuss in Ba3abda.

 

[Iron Maiden]

You paid 40K usd in 2018. If you generated this money in Lebanon then effectively 35K out of that was anoverpayment to you financed by debt. (the illusion of wealth). What you actually lost is five K, a month's salary if you migrate to a decent country. And think about it positively: Had you put the 40K in the bank in Lebanese Lira, it would have lost 80 percent of its purchasing power by now. Had you put it in a Lebanese bank in USD most likely you would have lost 60% of it so far . And if you keep it in the bank till next year, in all likelihood you will lose the lot. So, assuming that you will ever get your apartment , you did the right thing except that the odds are the contractor will abandon the project and whatever equity you have will be tied up in courts. Let your children deal with it for unless you have a 100 year life expectancy you will not see any resolution in your life time.

So what are your options now? First you say your income n 2M LL. Before the end of summer if not much earlier that income will be worth less than a 100USD. How are you going to meet your 500usd monthly payment if you don’t have a foreign source of income? You wont.

Best thing you do is to find a good decent judge who still accepts bribes in LL to rule in your favour. And lets face it a judge who still accepts bribes in LL is not a very effective judge. Most likely he got his law degree from Homs university. But even if you succeed in getting a favourable ruling, there is no one to enforce it. It’s a matter of very short few months before all the security forces (army, police, internal security etc) disintegrate. And unless you are a member of the parties in govt now, plus the mustakbal or PSP you have a buckley’s chance of getting anything. So pay someone few loaves of bread to rough up the contractor.

Your best option is to convert to Shiism then you are above the law and, to have a slam duck case, join any of their two parties. You might get some relief unless of course the contractor has already beaten you to the punch and joined those parties. It’s easy; all you have to do is say you believe Hizbullah will liberate Palestine. If you become Shiite you would genuinely believe that but if you are not you would see ski slopes in hell much sooner.

Most people do not want to admit the scale of the catastrophe but deep down they sense it and know it. The politicians, the head of the central bank, the bankers are all lying about the reality of the situation for your own safety. They know if they tell you the truce you might be tempted to rise up for your rights and that will draw the ire of Hizbullah which will result in a carnage. What Hizbullah has been working for for 30 years and now so close to reaping its rewards isn’t about to be scuppered right now. The man in Ba2aba is running out of platitudes to give you so expect nothing from him. He was handed a poisoned chalice and he happily took it if only to be remembered as the last Christian president of Lebanon. On that score he might have to compete with his son-in-law who might cut a deal with Hariri on the distribution of the gold reserves and secure the presidency. ALL The politicians have sent ALL their money overseas so they can easily play a game of brinkmanship with each other and dance on the edge of the precipice. They have their people to die for them.

What I am telling you in essence is that cut your losses and walk away from the deal if you are bound to pay in USD.. That same apartment or even a better one you will be able to buy for 40K sooner than you expect assuming you are one of the lucky ones to survive the bloody upheaval about to be unleashed in the country.

You say you want to sell it and go overseas. The sooner you do it the better. Beware all exits out of the country might close up soon and you will be like someone trapped inside a house on fire with no exits. The fact that you can still stick your head out for a bout of fresh air doesn’t mean the fire will not affect you. Yet in the middle of this apocalypse you must be thankful it happened in 3ahd l 2awi. Just imagine what the situation might have been if we had a wuss in Ba3abda.

are you trying to get the man to commit sepuku?

 

[shadow1]

are you trying to get the man to commit sepuku?

what does that mean?
I am simply telling him the truth that you are terrified of admitting.

 

[Drama Queen]

what does that mean?
I am simply telling him the truth that you are terrified of admitting.

Another word for Harakiri. @Iron Maiden trying to sound sooo-phisticated.

 

[shadow1]

Another word for Harakiri. @Iron Maiden trying to sound sooo-phisticated.

the incorrect spelling gave that away.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Another word for Harakiri. @Iron Maiden trying to sound sooo-phisticated.

u’re welcome u’ll sleep less dumb more enlightened tonite

 

[Iron Maiden]

the incorrect spelling gave that away.

i’m a sucker for incorrect spelling, glad to make your acquaintance

 

[Abou Sandal]

Wow thanks a lot. Do you mind if I show you the contract in private? or it won't work like that? Thanks a lot man!

No problem if you wish so. But there is really no need. It doesn't matter if the contract stipulates that you need to pay a monthly installment of 500$, or not. According to the law, you have the right to pay those 500$ in Lebanese Pounds, calculated at the official exchange rate.

 

[mike89]

I would maybe throw in the ring, checking the progress of the building itself. Is he even working on completing it? Are the milestones reached in time?
Maybe tie the payments to milestones if that is possible. Paying a developer now without the assurance that you re gonna get anything out of it might not be the best idea.

If he s broke in the end and he didn't even finish half of it would be Armageddon and no court or lawyer could help you in practice. You ll be stuck in the justice system and in the end you have almost nothing for your money. Regardless of who s right or wrong.

 

[Murder he wrote]

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been great and useful.

I decided to switch to a smaller apartment in the building. 2 bedrooms instead of 3. Not great, but better than nothing at this stage.

I asked him, if I don't want the apartment what will you give me? He said I will take $12,000. So losing this amount is bad, especially he will give me a cheque bancaire.

So I decided to switch to smaller apartment and thus will need to pay $54,000 now instead of $88,000. It sounds easier for me.

- I asked if I can pay via cheque bancaire as I have all the amount in my bank, so I can get rid of it and no need to go to the bank anymore. I will still have few thousands only. The owner said, if you pay me by cheque now I need to increase the value by 35%. So I need to pay him $20,000 more.

What do you think guys? Do you think it's fair? Obviously the owner is greedy and he is trying to limit his losses as much as he can, but I am really tired and might say yes just to get over with it. The $20,000 cheque I can buy it for $8,000 in cash. So it's not a big deal. But I am really tired.

I wanted to buy an apartment to get married and live there. Right now, I just want to get it in order not to lose the $12,000 that he will deduct, and in order to get my money from the bank and stop going there to get $1000 per month (3,000,000 LBP). This country killed all my dreams and hard work.

Is it fair to you guys? What do you suggest?

Sorry again, but I came from nothing and you have no idea how much I worked so much to get this amount of money. So advise me please!

Thanks!

 

[Drama Queen]

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been great and useful.

I decided to switch to a smaller apartment in the building. 2 bedrooms instead of 3. Not great, but better than nothing at this stage.

I asked him, if I don't want the apartment what will you give me? He said I will take $12,000. So losing this amount is bad, especially he will give me a cheque bancaire.

So I decided to switch to smaller apartment and thus will need to pay $54,000 now instead of $88,000. It sounds easier for me.

- I asked if I can pay via cheque bancaire as I have all the amount in my bank, so I can get rid of it and no need to go to the bank anymore. I will still have few thousands only. The owner said, if you pay me by cheque now I need to increase the value by 35%. So I need to pay him $20,000 more.

What do you think guys? Do you think it's fair? Obviously the owner is greedy and he is trying to limit his losses as much as he can, but I am really

I don't think he's necessarily greedy. He's also hit by the currency collapse like you are and has financial commitments of his own.
I'm sure he needs USD to be able to continue the project. I think the solution he offered you sounds fair.

The $20,000 cheque I can buy it for $8,000 in cash

How does that work? If you have USD cash, you can actually buy cheques worth the value of your money?

 

[Mrsrx]

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been great and useful.

I decided to switch to a smaller apartment in the building. 2 bedrooms instead of 3. Not great, but better than nothing at this stage.

I asked him, if I don't want the apartment what will you give me? He said I will take $12,000. So losing this amount is bad, especially he will give me a cheque bancaire.

So I decided to switch to smaller apartment and thus will need to pay $54,000 now instead of $88,000. It sounds easier for me.

- I asked if I can pay via cheque bancaire as I have all the amount in my bank, so I can get rid of it and no need to go to the bank anymore. I will still have few thousands only. The owner said, if you pay me by cheque now I need to increase the value by 35%. So I need to pay him $20,000 more.

What do you think guys? Do you think it's fair? Obviously the owner is greedy and he is trying to limit his losses as much as he can, but I am really tired and might say yes just to get over with it. The $20,000 cheque I can buy it for $8,000 in cash. So it's not a big deal. But I am really tired.

I wanted to buy an apartment to get married and live there. Right now, I just want to get it in order not to lose the $12,000 that he will deduct, and in order to get my money from the bank and stop going there to get $1000 per month (3,000,000 LBP). This country killed all my dreams and hard work.

Is it fair to you guys? What do you suggest?

Sorry again, but I came from nothing and you have no idea how much I worked so much to get this amount of money. So advise me please!

Thanks!

I have no idea but i would say counter offer as a rule of thumb.

 

[mariob2]

I don't think he's necessarily greedy. He's also hit by the currency collapse like you are and has financial commitments of his own.
I'm sure he needs USD to be able to continue the project. I think the solution he offered you sounds fair.



How does that work? If you have USD cash, you can actually buy cheques worth the value of your money?

He planned it brilliantly. By agreeing for a smaller appartment, thus reducing the price nearly 30k, and the contractor agreeing on those terms if the buyer provides 20k in cheque which he can get for 8k USD Cash, he managed himself quite a salvaged deal.

It's a matter of how much you can leverage your cash vs. how much you can gain "on paper" for them.

All in all, as Abou Sandal repeatedly said, as long as you actually pay, he cannot refuse whatsover the payment, even in LL, lest he therefore breaks the terms of the contract and be forced to restitute to you the damages + interest.

That situation may be disadvantageous if the contractor decides to pay, but fear not! For he probably does not have the liquidity to pay you, which means he will go bankrupt. Restitution of 50k $ + interest or nearly 100 000 000LL is not an easy number in cash. (P.S : the contract states $ so he must pay the equivalent in LL. The problem resides in determining that equivalent. Is it 1507? Or 3000? Or exchange price? Or black market? In the absence of a certain number, that is a setback. Had there been one official number of 3k or 4k LL, then you getting the money cash is not bad for you would be getting what you payed in LL adjusted i.e LL 300 million or 400.)

At this stage, you can get the appartment or any other asset he has, provided he has any equity at all to satisfy for all the creditors' needs

Of course this is an unwated stage, because then there are risks he might be broke, or not having sufficient assets.

All in all, pay up, force him to accept, and finish ASAP.

 

[cedarheart]

@Murder he wrote
I watched the following video few days ago, it reminded me of your post here as it discusses similar cases to yours.
In essence it's very similar to the advice @Abou Sandal gave you

Hope it helps

 

[SeaAb]

 

[SeaAb]

 

[Murder he wrote]

Hi guys. Sorry for being away. Just an update for you: I decided to drop the apartment for 2 reasons:

- I don't want to continue paying in $ or put 1,500 in the notary and later go to the court.
- He is so slow in construction.
- I got a new job with fresh $.

I got my money back in cheque. I put it in the bank and now live with it (3,900 L.L for every $) and save my salary in $.

When the real estate will crash, I will buy one, better than this one with cash $.

Because to continue paying for this one, it will cost me a lot - pay for something unfinished.

 

[Drama Queen]

Hi guys. Sorry for being away. Just an update for you: I decided to drop the apartment for 2 reasons:

- I don't want to continue paying in $ or put 1,500 in the notary and later go to the court.
- He is so slow in construction.
- I got a new job with fresh $.

I got my money back in cheque. I put it in the bank and now live with it (3,900 L.L for every $) and save my salary in $.

When the real estate will crash, I will buy one, better than this one with cash $.

Because to continue paying for this one, it will cost me a lot - pay for something unfinished.

$200 in fresh money = $200 x 7,500 L.L. = 1,500,000 L.L.
$200 in your local account = $200 x 3,900 L.L. = 780,000 L.L.

Doesn't it make more sent to use your fresh dollars? You can boost your purchasing power and still be able to save some of your money.