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PM Moustafa Adib Government formation 2020 [M. Adib resigns amid impasse]

Jacques Hirac

Jacques Hirac

New Member
Two days have passed since the resignation of Hassan Diab on 10-4-2020, and the Lebanese people are waiting for any news regarding the naming of a new PM and the formation of a new government.
From the comments I've seen here, it would appear that almost none of the forum members advocates a "unity government" that represents the existing political parties.
What is not very clear to me however is:
How would you define a "unity government"?
Whom would such a government consist of?
What could be an alternative?

Below are my thoughts on the issue:
If I remember correctly, the previous government was labeled a March 8 government due to how Hassan Diab's name was suggested to the president by March 8 parties. "Opposition" parties then, like FM and LF, refused to take part in the government formation. This helped enforce the idea of it being a "single-color government".
Naming Hassan Diab's government as "single color" served all the corrupt parties because it made it easy for opposition parties to refute the government's legitimacy by participating in the existing "revolution", and it made it easy for March 8 parties to demand being represented in that government since it is supposed to be theirs. I think what made the government fail is not the way Hassan Diab was named nor his performance, but rather the way his government was colored even before its formation.
Would it be possible for the parliament to name a PM that neither camp would object to?
If yes, would that be directly called a "unity government" or would it be given the chance to try and assemble an acceptable cabinet?
Also, who would be that person? Doesn't it make sense that the international community (including Macron) would consider Saad el Hariri as being the common denominator for most (if not all) of the political parties?
The way I see it, the "revolution", by not naming its own representatives or PM candidate, has created the perfect environment for any corrupt political party to bargain through it. I hate to say this, but isn't it possible that the only way out of a new deadlock today might be if FPM and LF simply accept Hariri (since they are the ones who opposed him before)?
If so, are there any conditions that any of the two parties might put in order to guarantee reform despite having Hariri as PM?
What are your thoughts?
 
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  • dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    Two days have passed since the resignation of Hassan Diab on 10-4-2020, and the Lebanese people are waiting for any news regarding the naming of a new PM and the formation of a new government.
    From the comments I've seen here, it would appear that almost none of the forum members advocates a "unity government" that represents the existing political parties.
    What is not very clear to me however is:
    How would you define a "unity government"?
    Whom would such a government consist of?
    What could be an alternative?

    Below are my thoughts on the issue:
    If I remember correctly, the previous government was labeled a March 8 government due to how Hassan Diab's name was suggested to the president by March 8 parties. "Opposition" parties then, like FM and LF, refused to take part in the government formation. This helped enforce the idea of it being a "single-color government".
    Naming Hassan Diab's government as "single color" served all the corrupt parties because it made it easy for opposition parties to refute the government's legitimacy by participating in the existing "revolution", and it made it easy for March 8 parties to demand being represented in that government since it is supposed to be theirs. I think what made the government fail is not the way Hassan Diab was named nor his performance, but rather the way his government was colored even before its formation.
    Would it be possible for the parliament to name a PM that neither camp would object to?
    If yes, would that be directly called a "unity government" or would it be given the chance to try and assemble an acceptable cabinet?
    Also, who would be that person? Doesn't it make sense that the international community (including Macron) would consider Saad el Hariri as being the common denominator for most (if not all) of the political parties?
    The way I see it, the "revolution", by not naming its own representatives or PM candidate, has created the perfect environment for any corrupt political party to bargain through it. I hate to say this, but isn't it possible that the only way out of a new deadlock today might be if FPM and LF simply accept Hariri (since they are the ones who opposed him before)?
    If so, are there any conditions that any of the two parties might put in order to guarantee reform despite having Hariri as PM?
    What are your thoughts?
    - First of all, let's not call it a unity government, it's a pie sharing government, where each gets his share.

    - A single color government is not something bad, and it's not wrong having other parties criticize it, a healthy system is when 1 side governs and another side is in the opposition to force the government to do their jobs

    - The government legitimacy wasn't refuted because LF and FM "joined the revolution" it was refuted because of all its failures of not doing anyhing to stop the LBP from depreciating, not being able to negotiate with the IMF.... until it all culminated to the biggest explosion that wasn't prevented

    - The "unity government" was also refuted from the revolution, this is how it resigned, so there's no excuse to bring it back

    - We find it impossible that the current cabinet choose an independent PM, because we're used to the pie sharing and we find it unimaginable to choose someone without getting a cut, but this is totally normal, the deputies represent the people, if they see people are demanding an independent PM, these deputies must try to name an independent PM.
    The problem is the current parties gain more from alliances with Berri, Hariri...then from hearing what their people want

    - No one is "bargaining" on the revolution to put back Hariri, in fact the revolution clearly doens't want Hariri, this is an excuse.


    Bottom line, all of these are excuses, FPM/LF don't have to bring back Hariri, they WANT to. Now that LF have been thrown out it seems from the gang, they're starting to ask for someone else :D

    It seems clear that the international community actually wants Nawaf Salam, but they're insisting on Hariri because they can get their share with him.
     
    Jacques Hirac

    Jacques Hirac

    New Member
    I agree with most of your points, so I will only comment on specific ones.

    - The government legitimacy wasn't refuted because LF and FM "joined the revolution" it was refuted because of all its failures of not doing anyhing to stop the LBP from depreciating, not being able to negotiate with the IMF.... until it all culminated to the biggest explosion that wasn't prevented
    - The "unity government" was also refuted from the revolution, this is how it resigned, so there's no excuse to bring it back
    I think the revolution flatters itself by considering itself to be the main cause behind either resignation.
    Saad El Hariri resigned after several days of dwindling numbers of protesters on the streets. He could have easily stayed in his post. It was a surprise.
    I could be wrong, but "he received a phone-call from abroad" was and still is a more plausible scenario for me than his own claims of "he tried fixing the country but FPM and HA are too corrupt so he gave in to the revolution".
    As for the Diab government resignation, let's not forget all the pressure placed on the guy.
    The LBP depreciation, the troubles with IMF negotiation, even the explosion would have still happened no matter how strong or independent the government was. The crooks controlling our banking system, our governmental institution, and controlling our parliament would still be the same.
    What could have been different is:
    - The people could have supported the government instead of opposing it based on empty slogans, anti-HA propaganda, and misinformation
    - The international community could have supported the government instead of sanctioning/isolating it because of its refusal to attack HA

    That's why I think a "unity government" that has international support might be our only way out now.
    Nawaf Salam can be the solution to the second point, but don't you also expect protesters to hit the streets and cause havoc as soon as Nawaf Salam starts touching upon the corruption networks? That is, assuming he will address those networks...
    You would see the same people closing roads, throwing rocks, and burning buildings because "Nawaf Salam was named by the corrupt parties", "Nawaf Salam had a meeting with Gebran Bassil" , "Nawaf Salam is attacking the Shia sect", "Nawaf Salam is an Israeli agent" or even "Nawaf Salam is making deals with Syria".
    From where I stand, it appears that to have stability in the region, we could expect a tame new name that would please the revolution, please the international community, and would not fight corruption (a new Hariri).
    Hopefully he would at least make the standards of living better for the Lebanese.

    Bottom line, all of these are excuses, FPM/LF don't have to bring back Hariri, they WANT to. Now that LF have been thrown out it seems from the gang, they're starting to ask for someone else :D

    It seems clear that the international community actually wants Nawaf Salam, but they're insisting on Hariri because they can get their share with him.
    If FPM/LF really wanted Hariri, then they would have formed a new government with Hariri the first time they had a chance.
    Also, they are not the reason Nawaf Salam might be vetoed now.
     
    dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    I think the revolution flatters itself by considering itself to be the main cause behind either resignation.
    Saad El Hariri resigned after several days of dwindling numbers of protesters on the streets. He could have easily stayed in his post. It was a surprise.
    I could be wrong, but "he received a phone-call from abroad" was and still is a more plausible scenario for me than his own claims of "he tried fixing the country but FPM and HA are too corrupt so he gave in to the revolution".
    Well at first France and US didn't want him to resign, but then it was too obvious, of course there are no "achievements" of the protests, these can barely influence decisions and can be tools to be used when the right circumstances arrive, same as in 2005 it wasn't just the protests that got the syrians out.

    - The people could have supported the government instead of opposing it based on empty slogans, anti-HA propaganda, and misinformation
    - The international community could have supported the government instead of sanctioning/isolating it because of its refusal to attack HA
    You want the people to support a government based on what ? what empty slogans, people can't retrieve their money from the bank and no one is doing anything about it, You're asking the people not to ask for their rights!

    and the international community clearly asked for reforms, YES their main intention is HA, but you can't use this as an excuse for not doing reforms.
    It was our deputies (the same parties as the government) that sabotaged the IMF plan by showing different numbers...

    So no the international community didn't isolate us and we're not sanctioned, we got ourselves here by our own corruption, and the people that stole from us want us to support them.

    If FPM/LF really wanted Hariri, then they would have formed a new government with Hariri the first time they had a chance.
    Also, they are not the reason Nawaf Salam might be vetoed now.
    Concerning this point, they didn't form a government with Hariri because they negotiated with him, he played hard ball and they decided to form a government without him (remember the weeks of negotiations with Hariri and the "Khalilayn" from HA/Amal)

    They didn't veto Nawaf Salam, they just agreed together to stick to Hariri because they gain more from it (of course it's not because of his qualities)
     
    Jacques Hirac

    Jacques Hirac

    New Member
    (1) He could have at least finished the sentence that says "7iyad Loobnan" without rushing to take a side.
    That's like when Samy Gemayel attacks "all politicians".
    (2) is paradoxical because if you already trust majles el nouweb to vote on a suitable electoral law, then maybe you don't need to shorten it's term to begin with. Maybe he can call instead, like other groups, for a government with "sala7iyyet istithne2iyye" to pass the law they want and prepare for elections. Although I admit that I am yet to understand how that works while still being constitutional. Can anyone confirm if that is legally possible?
    (3) Sure why not? Besides it only took 15 years for the international tribunal to investigate the murder of Rafik El Hariri, it costed the treasury millions of dollars, and we have yet to witness any results. "Ma shefna shi"
    (4) Ah ok, so we just need to start? That's what everyone was doing wrong! :p
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    عون لبري: "قوم بوس تيريز"
    المصدر: ليبانون ديبايت | الخميس 20 آب 2020

    "ليبانون ديبايت"

    وكأن كل الذي حدث منذ 17 تشرين الأول الى اليوم لم يحدث, الثورة, الانهيار المالي, كورونا, وانفجار بيروت. كلها كوارث لم تستدع اي تغيير بالعقلية التي سادت منذ انطلاق عهد الرئيس ميشال عون الى اليوم، باسيل وزير اساسي تدور حوله التشكيلات الحكومية ويتعلق بتوزيره مصير بلد سقط عن شفير الهاوية واصبح في القعر.

    وفي معلومات "ليبانون ديبايت" أن النائب جبران باسيل قد عاد الى سياسة رفع السقوف ومنها استبعاد الرئيس سعد الحريري او دخوله معه الحكومة.


    وفي هذا الإطار، وبعد لقاء الرئيس ميشال عون والرئيس نبيه بري، يوفد عون باسيل للقاء بري يوم غد الجمعة ما أعاد الى الاذهان توصيف جعجع لاجتماعاته مع عون "قوم بوس تيريز" في اشارة الى احالة عون الملفات الاساسية الى باسيل.


     
    SoFP1

    SoFP1

    The Chosen One
    Orange Room Supporter
    War2a ray7a w war2a jeye...wil balad is the office boy! 🤦‍♂️

     
    SoFP1

    SoFP1

    The Chosen One
    Orange Room Supporter
    Eh, shou ba3d fi talabet? 3a 2ases inno if the gov says that, HA will promptly deliver him. He is probably not in the country anyway! Shou hal stupid complication that this stooge is "demanding"?
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Eh, shou ba3d fi talabet? 3a 2ases inno if the gov says that, HA will promptly deliver him. He is probably not in the country anyway! Shou hal stupid complication that this stooge is "demanding"?
    It's very important to set the terms high when you're negotiating
    at the end of the day we all know there's no way Hezbollah will hand over Salim 3ayyash
    Be it Hariri or the international community or wohever
    Hezbollah right now is negotiating from a position of weakness and that should be milked to the max and get concessions.

    PS: Naufal Daw is rajol siyedeh
    Stooges are the current crew.
     
    SoFP1

    SoFP1

    The Chosen One
    Orange Room Supporter
    It's very important to set the terms high when you're negotiating
    at the end of the day we all know there's no way Hezbollah will hand over Salim 3ayyash
    Be it Hariri or the international community or wohever
    Hezbollah right now is negotiating from a position of weakness and that should be milked to the max and get concessions.

    PS: Naufal Daw is rajol siyedeh
    Stooges are the current crew.
    The most important thing is the end goal. Anyway, let's see what happens. Your opinion of Daw is yours.
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    عون لبري: "قوم بوس تيريز"
    المصدر: ليبانون ديبايت | الخميس 20 آب 2020

    "ليبانون ديبايت"

    وكأن كل الذي حدث منذ 17 تشرين الأول الى اليوم لم يحدث, الثورة, الانهيار المالي, كورونا, وانفجار بيروت. كلها كوارث لم تستدع اي تغيير بالعقلية التي سادت منذ انطلاق عهد الرئيس ميشال عون الى اليوم، باسيل وزير اساسي تدور حوله التشكيلات الحكومية ويتعلق بتوزيره مصير بلد سقط عن شفير الهاوية واصبح في القعر.

    وفي معلومات "ليبانون ديبايت" أن النائب جبران باسيل قد عاد الى سياسة رفع السقوف ومنها استبعاد الرئيس سعد الحريري او دخوله معه الحكومة.


    وفي هذا الإطار، وبعد لقاء الرئيس ميشال عون والرئيس نبيه بري، يوفد عون باسيل للقاء بري يوم غد الجمعة ما أعاد الى الاذهان توصيف جعجع لاجتماعاته مع عون "قوم بوس تيريز" في اشارة الى احالة عون الملفات الاساسية الى باسيل.



     
    TayyarBeino

    TayyarBeino

    Legendary Member
    ينفي المكتب الإعلامي لرئيس التيار الوطني الحر جبران باسيل نفيا قاطعا ماذكرته محطة الجديد عن انه اقترح إسمي قاضيين لتولي رئاسة الحكومة. ويؤكد المكتب الاعلامي ‏أن النائب باسيل لم يقترح أي اسم.
     
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