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PM Moustafa Adib Government formation 2020 [M. Adib resigns amid impasse]

TayyarBeino

Legendary Member
@General_Aoun
·
5m

لا الاستقواء على بعضنا سينفع، ولا الاستقواء بالخارج سيجدي. وحده تفاهمنا المبني على الدستور والتوازن هو ما سيأخذنا الى الاستقرار والنهوض



اقترح إلغاء التوزيع الطائفي للوزارات التي سميت بالسيادية وعدم تخصيصها لطوائف محددة بل جعلها متاحة لكل الطوائف فتكون القدرة على الإنجاز وليس الانتماء الطائفي هي المعيار في اختيار الوزراء. فهل نقوم بهذه الخطوة ونبدأ عملية الانقاذ المتاحة أمامنا أم سنبقى رهائن الطوائفية والمذهبية؟



بينما نلمس عقم النظام الطوائفي الذي نتخبط به والأزمات المتلاحقة التي يتسبب بها، وبينما استشعرنا ضرورة وضع رؤية حديثة لشكل جديد في الحكم يقوم على مدنية الدولة، اقترح القيام بأول خطوة في هذا الاتجاه عبر إلغاء التوزيع الطائفي للوزارات التي سميت بالسيادية وعدم تخصيصها لطوائف محددة



إن التصلب في الموقفين لن يوصلنا الى أي نتيجة، سوى المزيد من التأزيم، في حين أن لبنان أكثر ما يحتاجه في ظل كل أزماته المتلاحقة، هو بعض الحلحلة والتضامن ليتكمن من النهوض ومواجهة مشاكله


رئيس الجمهورية الذي يمارس وظيفة رئاسة الدولة، يرأس مجلس الوزراء حين يحضر، ويشارك في المداولات إلا أنه لا يصوت، أي أن ما يجعله الوحيد في مجلس الوزراء الذي لا مشاركة فعلية له في السلطة الإجرائية



السلطة الإجرائية ناطها الدستور بمجلس الوزراء مجتمعاً وليس برئيسه أو أي من أعضائه فتتحقق المشاركة في صناعة القرار الإجرائي وفق آليات الدستور



إن المشاركة في السلطة الاجرائية هي من خلال الحكومة وتمارس من قبل الوزراء وفق المادتين 65 و66 من الدستور، ما يجعل جميع الوزراء متساوين كل في شؤون وزارته ومن خلال العضوية في مجلس الوزراء، وليس لأحد أن يفرض سلطته على الآخر من خارج النصوص الدستورية



الدستور لا ينص على تخصيص أي وزارة لأي طائفة من الطوائف أو لأي فريق من الأفرقاء كما لا يمكن منح أي وزير سلطة لا ينص عليها الدستور


لا يجوز استبعاد الكتل النيابية عن عملية تأليف الحكومة لأن هذه الكتل هي من سيمنح الثقة أو يحجبها في المجلس النيابي، وإن كان التأليف محصوراً بالتوقيع بين رئيس الحكومة المكلف ورئيس الجمهورية. كما لا يجوز فرض وزراء وحقائب من فريق على الآخرين خصوصاً وأنه لا يملك الأكثرية النيابية



كتلتا التنمية والتحرير والوفاء للمقاومة تصران على التمسك بوزارة المالية وعلى تسمية الوزير وسائر وزراء الطائفة الشيعية الكريمة. ويسجّل لهما التمسك بالمبادرة الفرنسية


عندما تفاقمت المشكلة واستعصت قمت بمشاورات مع ممثلين عن الكتل النيابية لاستمزاج الآراء، فكانت هناك مطالبة بالمداورة من قبل معظم من التقيتهم، ورفض لتأليف الحكومة من دون الأخذ برأيهم


الرئيس المكلف لا يريد الأخذ برأي رؤساء الكتل في توزيع الحقائب وتسمية الوزراء ويطرح المداورة الشاملة، ويلتقي معه في هذا الموقف رؤساء حكومة سابقون. ويسجل له أنه يرفض التأليف إن لم يكن ثمة توافق وطني على التشكيلة الحكومية


لقد طرحنا حلولاً منطقية ووسطية لتشكيل الحكومة ولكن لم يتم القبول بها من الفريقين، وتبقى العودة الى النصوص الدستورية واحترامها هي الحل الذي ليس فيها لا غالب ولا مغلوب



أربع زيارات للرئيس المكلف ولم يستطع أن يقدم لنا أي تصور أو تشكيلة أو توزيع للحقائب أو الأسماء، ولم تتحلحل العقد
 
Is it or not, the formation a new cabinet part of the French initiative? For reminding, Micron said that he will do a close follow-up to guarantee the success of his initiative.

did you listen to Aoun’s speech today? This is an internal matter. Yet you fall for journalist propaganda and what not trying to blame external forces that has nothing to do with our problems.

Again, the French initiative is not that they form the government, but offer support in the formation by encouraging dialogue between all parties. Ofcourse Macron will follow up, he will want to know if the idiots in power really want to form a government. If they don’t then he will sanction them.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
الرئيس عون: نحن اليوم أمام أزمة تشكيل حكومة لم يكن مفترضاً أن تحصل ومع تصلّب المواقف لا يبدو في الأفق أي حل قريب لأن كل الحلول المطروحة تشكل غالباً ومغلوباً



عون: الدستور لا ينص على تخصيص أي وزارة لأي طائفة من الطوائف أو لأي فريق من الأفرقاء كما لا يمكن منح أي وزير سلطة لا ينص عليها الدستور

Does the constitution stipulate the president must be Maronite, Mr Constitution?
 

Resign

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
لقد طرحنا حلولاً منطقية ووسطية لتشكيل الحكومة ولكن لم يتم القبول بها من الفريقين، وتبقى العودة الى النصوص الدستورية واحترامها هي الحل الذي ليس فيها لا غالب ولا مغلوب

Basically he wants MOF for himself LOL

Is the president aware that everyone in the country sees him as طرف and not a President جامع

I agree that the constitution should be followed

all parliamentary blocs voiced their demands during isticharet, now they should all sit back and let the guy form the freaking government
The PM designate should present his formation to the President the way he thinks it should be.
Let him sign or push back
If he signs, it goes to Parliament and let them obstruct it there.

الرئيس المكلف لا يريد الأخذ برأي رؤساء الكتل في توزيع الحقائب وتسمية الوزراء ويطرح المداورة الشاملة، ويلتقي معه في هذا الموقف رؤساء حكومة سابقون. ويسجل له أنه يرفض التأليف إن لم يكن ثمة توافق وطني على التشكيلة الحكومية

Mr President continues to bombard the constitution on a daily basis
No one has a say in the formation
They can voice their objection in Parliament during thiqa session.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Does the constitution stipulate the president must be Maronite, Mr Constitution?
Same the constitution does not stipulate that the Speaker be Shiite and the PM be sunni, but this split of power has been agreed upon for decades, while registering a ministry in the name of someone is a first, without the consent of others, and it is been mainly done only to block.
The country is literally in ruins, at the economical level as well as in reality, and they insist to make it even worse.

Add to that you got the MOF for years and the result is still a catastrophe, as the result of the rest of the political parties, ye3ni ma 7ada a7san min 7ada.
So it is time that all of them step aside and give this country a chance (if still any)

I remind you, when dire and hunger struck, it is not only the Christians, the Sunnis, Druze, or Shiat al safarat who will starve, it will be everyone including the base of HA & Amal as well, and since there is no more money left in the state to funnel it, no one will be spared...
 

Resign

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
I encourage Adib to draft his formation the way he thinks it should be and send it to Baabda for the second signature.
Grow some balls and do it already.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Federalism can’t come soon enough.

So it is either 30% gets 50% and gets the juiciest reserved posts or you walk away or isolate yourself or divide the country. Being coequal is not okay for you. The bad news for you is that it will neither be this nor that eventually. You have to live equally along with others as normal and ordinary citizens without any preferentialtreatment or support.

The genesis of the problem is the wrong foundations upon which Lebanon was built. Until all Lebanese have equal rights and are treated equally, irrespective of their sectarian or religious affiliations, we wont be at peace with ourselves. Our conscience will always bug us even if we choose to live and let live for the sake of peace and coexistence, like we have done already for 77 years, while some people have preferential treatment and do not want equality.

Nonetheless, in my personal opinion, you should be allowed to form your own country. We shouldn't even be opposing federalism but we should be encouraging you to go for partition. How can we coexist with some people who think they are superior, or rather their superiority complex is borne out of inferiority and insecurities from their compatriots and they have the drive to outdo others unfairly? We shouldn't accept coexistence. We should either have our own country or join Syria and let you too have yours. Coexistence on the basis of inequality and preferential treatment for some over others is and will always be problematic and unacceptable, even when we are not complaining. No one is begging or should be begging you to remain part of a Greater Lebanon. You should be encouraged to leave.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Same the constitution does not stipulate that the Speaker be Shiite and the PM be sunni, but this split of power has been agreed upon for decades, while registering a ministry in the name of someone is a first, without the consent of others, and it is been mainly done only to block.
The country is literally in ruins, at the economical level as well as in reality, and they insist to make it even worse.

Add to that you got the MOF for years and the result is still a catastrophe, as the result of the rest of the political parties, ye3ni ma 7ada a7san min 7ada.
So it is time that all of them step aside and give this country a chance (if still any)

I remind you, when dire and hunger struck, it is not only the Christians, the Sunnis, Druze, or Shiat al safarat who will starve, it will be everyone including the base of HA & Amal as well, and since there is no more money left in the state to funnel it, no one will be spared...

You are right.

The constitution doesnt stipulate any post to be assigned to any sect.

On this basis, we should have moudawara 100%. All posts should be alternated or rotated among the sects at least every 4 or 8 years once.

I am not against moudawara. But you cant be a proponent of moudawara and be a proponent of the so called munasafe at the same time. Who are you trying to deceive?
 

SoFP1

The Chosen One
Orange Room Supporter
Does the constitution stipulate the president must be Maronite, Mr Constitution?
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@My Moria Moon

It is funny that you and Lebanese Christians in general consider that beloved Iran interferes on Lebanon's internal affairs while we never hear about Iranian ambassadors and envoys meeting or callingl Lebanese ministers and Lebanese civil officers to influence their work.

In the other hand, the French forced a rotten PM and tried to exclude Shia representative from having a word in the executive

Not to speak about the US safiha and envoys who act as if Lebanon was their property.

You called mon cheri? Just a minute, need to wash my surgical gloves, been busy investigating the brain tissue of a Lebanese dead-man walking guy. Metlen 2amel, bass fi amal. :lol:

To answer your call: why do you care? The project you're being drawn into is not a modern, prosperous, shared and sovereign Lebanese state. It is one that belongs to the poor Mullahstan dream where he who pays for your bread and your bullet tells you to jump and you ask "how high?".
For that, I think you ought to work harder on the cross region hilal shi3i tunnel, connecting your areas to beloved Iran. Make sure it is fortified with reinforcing bars, especially in Syria. Remember: the longer dictators live, the closer to death they get; you never know when Assad's hour is rang and he gets replaced by a sunni puppet installed by Russia.

In the meantime, enjoy pumping in your beloved Iranian money and arms, they're ultimately good for charging your hollow megalomania to the sad sound of 3ashoura's dry funeral drums.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I encourage Adib to draft his formation the way he thinks it should be and send it to Baabda for the second signature.
Grow some balls and do it already.

Forget it, no use
the country is desintegarting
i have no more hope it in
Those who can escape should do it and offer a better life and future for their children
I can understand doing sacrifices to fight the enemy, but what I can't understand is not caring about the fate of the people in this severe economical crisis, because of spoils of a state leftover!
this is beyond my understanding
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
50% for all the destruction and misery that Hezbollah/Amal has caused Lebanon? You guys should be happy to get 5%.

I am not even asking for 1% for my sect if this country was built on democratic basis where human rights and the rights of the citizenry are respected. We live in western countres with secular govts and we are Muslims. We dont feel by and large discriminated against by government.

What I am asking for is a civil and non sectarian state. And if sectarian considerations are to be made, then we must have moudawara of all posts from the presidency to the least job. Otherwise, no one should preach moudawara to my community in a hypocritical manner.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
You called mon cheri? Just a minute, need to wash my surgical gloves, been busy investigating the brain tissue of a Lebanese dead-man walking guy. Metlen 2amel, bass fi amal. :lol:

To answer your call: why do you care? The project you're being drawn into is not a modern, prosperous, shared and sovereign Lebanese state. It is one that belongs to the poor Mullahstan dream where he who pays for your bread and your bullet tells you to jump and you ask "how high?".
For that, I think you ought to work harder on the cross region hilal shi3i tunnel, connecting your areas to beloved Iran. Make sure it is fortified with reinforcing bars, especially in Syria. Remember: the longer dictators live, the closer to death they get; you never know when Assad's hour is rang and he gets replaced by a sunni puppet installed by Russia.

In the meantime, enjoy pumping in your beloved Iranian money and arms, they're ultimately good for charging your hollow megalomania to the sad sound of 3ashoura's dry funeral drums.

The solution to Syria's problems is to make Syria a constitutional monarchy led by the Assad family, with an empowered Sunni PM.

But dont worry. Al Saud arent better than Al Assad. One dies and another will take over. Ya3neh, we are in this for a long long time to come.
 

NewLeb

Member
I am not even asking for 1% for my sect if this country was built on democratic basis where human rights and the rights of the citizenry are respected. We live in western country and we are Muslims. We dont feel by and large discriminated against by government.

What I am asking for is a civil and non sectarian state. And if sectarian considerations are to be made, then we must have moudawara of all posts from the presidency to the least job. Otherwise, no one should preach moudawara to my community in a hypocritical manner.

All sects are not equal, ergo, some sects should be given priority for certain posts over others.
 

elAshtar

Legendary Member
Same the constitution does not stipulate that the Speaker be Shiite and the PM be sunni, but this split of power has been agreed upon for decades, while registering a ministry in the name of someone is a first, without the consent of others, and it is been mainly done only to block.
The country is literally in ruins, at the economical level as well as in reality, and they insist to make it even worse.

Add to that you got the MOF for years and the result is still a catastrophe, as the result of the rest of the political parties, ye3ni ma 7ada a7san min 7ada.
So it is time that all of them step aside and give this country a chance (if still any)

I remind you, when dire and hunger struck, it is not only the Christians, the Sunnis, Druze, or Shiat al safarat who will starve, it will be everyone including the base of HA & Amal as well, and since there is no more money left in the state to funnel it, no one will be spared...

Well, no one asked me if I approve on that split of power. That consent does not exist anymore as a major sect doesn't approve it anymore unless it gets a saying in the executive power. I am not entitled to stick to a confessional system because someone decided that in 1945. The constitution, and not any 3urf, states clearly that this sort of split in power should be abolished. So, how about we start from there?

The Shia are suggesting to recommend names from which the PM can choose, mind you. However, the PM and those behind him (who even form a minority in the parliament mind you) think that they can appoint the Shia ministers without getting back to the sole representatives of the shia in a ****in confessional system.

What will happen is, either you accept that the Shia gets their share in the executive power.. or the whole system will collapse as a result of the dire economical situation. Honestly, I prefer the second option. Don't mind the first one though.

Noone dies from hunger. The Germans were in a far worth situation post world war one and world war two. At least we will get to have a fresh new start.
 
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