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Position du général AOUN! Entretien avec l'OLJ!

rainman

Well-Known Member
bottom line: we will have 2 gov: then we will see who will rule over where?

redundancy is good :eek:)

yesterday jumblat said the traitoprs are the ones who try to have 2 gov, he started the betrayal, and should expect a retaliation ... wal baaadi azlam

rainman
 

loubnaniTO

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
bottom line: we will have 2 gov: then we will see who will rule over where?

redundancy is good :eek:)

yesterday jumblat said the traitoprs are the ones who try to have 2 gov, he started the betrayal, and should expect a retaliation ... wal baaadi azlam

rainman

Jumblatt can throw his accusations as much as he wants... this disaster we are heading to will not be a disaster for the opposition only, it will be for EVERYBODY! so he can laugh now, but bottom line, we are all losing!
 

superduper703

Well-Known Member
They are against..
But sometimes you're forced to take a decision against your will but for the good of your country.

I'm sorry if you can't see it, but a second government is NOT for the good of the country.

I can't believe that people are accusing me of being this and that, where all I'm trying to do is defend the STATE. I have no problem in the CR and HA deputies exercising their right not to vote for a president. If the majority tries to elect a president without the required quorum, then they're just as guilty as the opposition in trying to circumvent the constitution.

The best solution, in my humble opinion, is to hold parliamentary and presidential elections at the same time. And let the best group win. Pipe dream.
 

TTT1

Well-Known Member
You don't need to scream in bold. If a government has the majority in parliament, the opposition doesn't create a second government. If you don't like their policies, then tough luck, and good luck in the next parliamentary elections. Mark my words, bookmark it, do whatever. If a second government is created, civil war will start again in Lebanon.

First, I always write in bold.
Then, I do agree with you if those were fair elections without flaws . That would be correct. But when you have such a flawed electoral law and when we have 10 seats that need to be validated and the new majority cancelled the Majlis Doustoure, and finally, when you have the coaltion that brought the majority to power collapsing, then all what you have said is without any base.
DEmocracy = early elections.
OR, let the flawed majority accept the others and correct the representativity through correct power sharing. This is the problem. The majority took the power by theft (As GMA always say it and he is 100% correct) and they want to continue putting their hands on everything before accepting to share some of it.
Is that democracy?
 

>Watani<

أكبر من أن يُبلعْ وأصغر من أن يقسّم
Orange Room Supporter
loubnaniTO said:
This is the first time in a quite a while that GA is pessimistic, and this is more in line with the feeling of most of us. Obviously there will be no unity government, and obviously the situation is getting out of control.


العماد عون والتشاؤم لا يتماشيان معاً. كنا أثناء الحرب والعماد عون كان لديه الأمل بالإنتصار. لم يحسسّ يوماً الشعب الذي يدعمه بالتشاؤم. ما قرأته ليس إلاّ الحقيقة الكاملة، فالعماد عون دائماً عودّنا على قول الحقيقة مهما كانت صعبة أو حرجة. أيضاً، ألفت نظرك إلا ّ أن أسئلة الصحافيين هي متكررّة ممّا أتاح لك فرصة الإستنتاج وهذا ما يرهق العماد عون. هذا هو الواقع ويجب الإعتراف به. فالسلطة اليوم تريد حكومة وحدة وطنيّة ولكن ضمن شروط؟ فهل هذه الشراكة الوطنيّة التي يبحثون عنها؟
ما زالوا يشترطون على الوطن، لكي نصل يوماً ونخسره كاملاً

س: هل عندكم بصيص أمل في إمكان قيام حكومة وحدة وطنية قبل موعد الإستحقاق النيابي؟ وفي حال لم يتم التوصل الى قيام حكومة على هذا النحو، هل من الممكن أن تخوضوا الانتخابات في حال غياب حكومة وحدة وطنية؟ وما هو تعليقكم على النداء الذي أطلقه البطريرك المار;وني مار نصرالله صفير وحذَر فيه من قيام حكومتين ورئيسين؟
ج: كلام غبطة البطريرك في محلّه، وهو من دعاة حكومة الوحدة الوطينة، ونحن وإياه والتكتل على الخط نفسه. أنا لا أضع المسؤولية في ذلك على عاتق الذي يشكل حكومة ثانية، لأنها ستكون نتيجة رفض الفريق الذي يسعى الى عرقلة قيام حكومة وحدة وطنية. يجب إدانة الذين يعطّلون قيام الوحدة الوطنية وليس إدانة الذين يقومون برد فعل. أما بالنسبة إلى الانتخابات، فأعتقد أن من الآن وحتى ذلك الوقت ستكون الأحداث سريعة في لبنان، وان شاءالله تتشكل حكومة وحدة وطنية ونتمكن من إجراء الانتخابات في الخامس من آب. أنا دائماً متفائل كالجندي الحي الذي يقاتل في المعركة وأمله كبير في تحقيق نتائج إيجابية


loubnaniTO said:
I wonder if the opposition has a clear vision on how to deal with the situation. Having 2 governments is a reaction, and doesnt represent a strong position for the opposition... i hope they know what they're doing. This situation cannot go on like this forever.

أرى أنه هناك تفاوت في الأراء بين فرقاء المعارضة حول تشكيل حكومة ثانية، ولكن التيار الوطني الحرّ واضح تماماً
وحسبما أعرفه هو اليوم يقود هذه السفينة
 

>Watani<

أكبر من أن يُبلعْ وأصغر من أن يقسّم
Orange Room Supporter
superduper703 said:
Very sensible solution. And usually what civilized nations would do. Unfortunately, this is Lebanon, where bravado is the order of the day. Michel Aoun, said a couple of months ago that he was opposed to a second government.

It's very clear here, GMA said to OLJ: "he refused to be the PM of the second gvt", but will he participate in the second gvt?
Also, GMA was very clear in his reply...


OLJ said:
Q – Vous aviez déclaré à L’Orient-Le Jour que vous refuseriez de présider un second gouvernement formé par le chef de l’ةtat. Accepteriez-vous maintenant d’y participer ?
R – « Je suis favorable à une autre forme de lutte. Mais je peux vous dire qu’entre les mauvaises solutions, celle-ci est la moins pire. Elle permettra au moins de contrôler la situation du côté de l’opposition et de l’encadrer. Elle devrait aussi permettre d’éviter un dérapage dont nul ne peut prédire où, quand et comment il se terminera... Le gouvernement actuel, qui a volé le pouvoir, qui a perdu sa légalité et qui divise le peuple, ne peut contrôler la situation. Avec un second gouvernement, le terrain devrait être plus ou moins sous contrôle, au moins au niveau de l’opposition. »

superduper703 said:
Now, it has become for him the lesser evil. He is taking the country to civil war.
Do you understand well French? Or you don't understand GMA speechs!
 

superduper703

Well-Known Member
It's very clear here, GMA said to OLJ: "he refused to be the PM of the second gvt", but will he participate in the second gvt?
Also, GMA was very clear in his reply...





Do you understand well French? Or you don't understand GMA speechs!

You're picking half-sentences to make a point. Yes, he said that he'd prefer other solutions, but he's not opposed to it anymore, whereas a couple of months ago, he was categorically opposed.
 

>Watani<

أكبر من أن يُبلعْ وأصغر من أن يقسّم
Orange Room Supporter
superduper703 said:
You're picking half-sentences to make a point. Yes, he said that he'd prefer other solutions, but he's not opposed to it anymore, whereas a couple of months ago, he was categorically opposed.

not even a couple months ago, it was 2 weeks ago, GMA refused to be the PM of this gvt, and this very different than participating. as well, GMA said it clearly that a 2nd gvt is a solution but not the better one! He opposed to be the PM of a 2nd gvt done by President Lahoud, as well he didn't said yes i'll participate in a 2nd gvt. He analyzed the advantage & the inconvenient of a 2nd gvt
 

Thuggishh_E

Active Member
... AND IT doesn't mean that the FPM or the RC bloc will PARTICIPATE in it!!

Alla yesma3 minnik ya rab
i hope that FPM won't participate in the 2nd gov.
we should be smarter & we should not forget that we have 2 by elections also.

I think that a 2 year-president A la Mikati + general elections will be the solution
 

lebo

Active Member
Michel Aoun, said a couple of months ago that he was opposed to a second government. Now, it has become for him the lesser evil. He is taking the country to civil war.

Good try superduper. Michel Aoun tried his best over the past two years to convey his concerns to the current 'majority' over the way they're running the country. The re-establishment of a free and strong state, especially in a nation overcrowded by conflicting factions, requires the participation of all. The inability of those in power to grasp this necessity has led us to where we are today. Remember after the infamous July 2006 war GMA's demand for a government composed of the leaders of major parties to lead the country through that tensed period. Had this happened, we would have rebuilt trust at the highest levels and we wouldn't have arrived here today. I am convinced that Aoun has tried his best to find a peaceful solution out of the mess we've been submerged in.

I think FPM fought peacefully yet valiantly from 1990-2005 to regain a truly independent state for all. However it seems the fight is not over. I hope that FPM at the leadership as well as the support base level will continue that fight to earn people's respect, even if that comes at a cost. Altruism sometimes is necessary to prevent a war and asertain a better future. I re-iterate that I think we should bite the bullet and let the current majority have it their way. The welfare of Lebanon seems to be the least of their concerns. In the mean time, we can work to earn people's trust by educating ourselves and others how we can push this damn sectarian system away. Cheers.
 

MiMi

Active Member
Position of FPM concerning a second government???

Yesterday the leader of FPM Michel Aoun in an interview with L orient le jour declared the following:

Je suis favorable à une autre forme de lutte. Mais je peux vous dire qu’entre les mauvaises solutions, celle-ci est la moins pire. Elle permettra au moins de contrôler la situation du côté de l’opposition et de l’encadrer. Elle devrait aussi permettre d’éviter un dérapage dont nul ne peut prédire où, quand et comment il se terminera... Le gouvernement actuel, qui a volé le pouvoir, qui a perdu sa légalité et qui divise le peuple, ne peut contrôler la situation. Avec un second gouvernement, le terrain devrait être plus ou moins sous contrôle, au moins au niveau de l’opposition. »


Yesterday too, another main figure of FPM Ibrahim Kanaan declared the following:

النائب ابراهيم كنعان

يؤكّد ان خيار التيار الحكومة الواحدة وليس الحكومتين ويدعو السلطة للإقرار بعجزها
27 حزيران 2007
أكّد عضو تكتل التغيير والاصلاح النائب ابراهيم كنعان ان خيار التيار الوطني الحر هو حكومة واحدة وليس حكومتين، ومؤسسات واحدة وليس انقسام في مؤسسات الدول

Both positions are in a clear contradiction, which is something extremely weird coming from two main figure in the same party, between those 2 positions what is the real position of FPM concerning the formation of a second government?
 

METALLICA

Well-Known Member
Yesterday the leader of FPM Michel Aoun in an interview with L orient le jour declared the following:

Je suis favorable à une autre forme de lutte. Mais je peux vous dire qu’entre les mauvaises solutions, celle-ci est la moins pire. Elle permettra au moins de contrôler la situation du côté de l’opposition et de l’encadrer. Elle devrait aussi permettre d’éviter un dérapage dont nul ne peut prédire où, quand et comment il se terminera... Le gouvernement actuel, qui a volé le pouvoir, qui a perdu sa légalité et qui divise le peuple, ne peut contrôler la situation. Avec un second gouvernement, le terrain devrait être plus ou moins sous contrôle, au moins au niveau de l’opposition. »


Yesterday too, another main figure of FPM Ibrahim Kanaan declared the following:

النائب ابراهيم كنعان

يؤكّد ان خيار التيار الحكومة الواحدة وليس الحكومتين ويدعو السلطة للإقرار بعجزها
27 حزيران 2007
أكّد عضو تكتل التغيير والاصلاح النائب ابراهيم كنعان ان خيار التيار الوطني الحر هو حكومة واحدة وليس حكومتين، ومؤسسات واحدة وليس انقسام في مؤسسات الدول

Both positions are in a clear contradiction, which is something extremely weird coming from two main figure in the same party, between those 2 positions what is the real position of FPM concerning the formation of a second government?

Euh.. it is not a contradiction, and it's certainly far from a clear one.

Kanaan says the preferable choice is that of one government, he's referring to a unity government I'm assuming.
Aoun says among the bad choices, a duplicate government is not the worst of things.

Having said that, organization is still a major flaw in FPM.
 

soinatously yours

New Member
Q – Le sit-in au centre-ville entame son septième mois. Quand sera-t-il levé ?
R – « L’odeur de pourriture en provenance du Sérail pourrait faire fuir les participants au sit-in... »


Has ever anybody from "14-feb" say that GMA stinks?

This is really an unapropriate way to conclude an interview.

How would we react if anybody from WJ, SG, Siniora or ... would have said they avoid Rabieh because it stinks?
 

Youchka

Legendary Member

Euh.. it is not a contradiction, and it's certainly far from a clear one.

Kanaan says the preferable choice is that of one government, he's referring to a unity government I'm assuming.
Aoun says among the bad choices, a duplicate government is not the worst of things.

Having said that, organization is still a major flaw in FPM.

Why isn't it a clear one? I thought that it was clear when I first read it. FPM definitely doesn't think that the optimal solution is the duplicate government option, and as Kanaan said, FPM's choice is the unity government, but if we get to the last day without our preferred solution, then, as GMA said, the least worst scenario among all bad ones, is the duplicate government.

i thought it is clear but if you think it's other than my interpretation, than please tell me, I may be wrong.
 

Youchka

Legendary Member
Has ever anybody from "14-feb" say that GMA stinks?

This is really an unapropriate way to conclude an interview.

How would we react if anybody from WJ, SG, Siniora or ... would have said they avoid Rabieh because it stinks?

Whether you like it or not, the "pourriture" has been going on for such a long time in our successive governments and politicians, that it became the regular smell we breathe every day. It is everywhere, in all daweyir, in all ministries, in every single deal the successive governments have done. So yeah it is definitely that, and stop being shocked when truth slaps you in the face.
 

soinatously yours

New Member
Whether you like it or not, the "pourriture" has been going on for such a long time in our successive governments and politicians, that it became the regular smell we breathe every day. It is everywhere, in all daweyir, in all ministries, in every single deal the successive governments have done. So yeah it is definitely that, and stop being shocked when truth slaps you in the face.

There is no more reason to accept the pourriture of fundamentalism than the pourriture you are talking about. With the first one we are trying to be tolerant and try to coexist and improve them (this was the original purpose of the MOU). If you qualify your opponants of pourriture don't be surprised with the fact many sees a coming civil war.

The other part of the interview I did not like was , "I am not preparing for a civil war " which seems to me a very light statement against THE catastrophy we should avoid at ANY price.

God save Lebanon, God forbid us.
 

METALLICA

Well-Known Member
Why isn't it a clear one? I thought that it was clear when I first read it. FPM definitely doesn't think that the optimal solution is the duplicate government option, and as Kanaan said, FPM's choice is the unity government, but if we get to the last day without our preferred solution, then, as GMA said, the least worst scenario among all bad ones, is the duplicate government.

i thought it is clear but if you think it's other than my interpretation, than please tell me, I may be wrong.

Youchka,

[fieldset="What I wrote"] Euh.. it is not a contradiction, and it's certainly far from a clear one.[/fieldset]
I think you misread what I wrote.
I do not find a contradiction in the two statements. I certainly do not find a clear contradiction.
 

Youchka

Legendary Member
Youchka,

[fieldset="What I wrote"] Euh.. it is not a contradiction, and it's certainly far from a clear one.[/fieldset]
I think you misread what I wrote.
I do not find a contradiction in the two statements. I certainly do not find a clear contradiction.

Sorry Meta, I indeed misread what you wrote.
Then my post will hopefully answer Mimi's question.
cheers
 

Kakou

Well-Known Member
Vous pouvez lire dans les confidences de l'Hebdo Magazine du 29 juin, # 2590, une explication, voire une preuve de la NON-contradiction:

Veto sur un Cabinet bis?

Le général Michel Aoun a informé les membres de son bloc parlementaire qu’il soutenait la mise sur pied d’un GOUVERNEMENT D'UNION NATIONALE, mais qu’il n’a pas l’intention de participer à un deuxième gouvernement, au cas où cette option serait réellement envisagée. Un groupe de parlementaires du Bloc du Changement et de la Réforme s’est rendu à Bkerké pour délivrer un message au patriarche maronite: le général Aoun n’entreprendra aucune démarche susceptible d’avoir une connotation partitionniste; c’est pourquoi il insiste sur la formation d’un Cabinet d’union nationale. Les deux hommes doivent, d’ailleurs, se rencontrer à Bkerké où le général est attendu très prochainement.
 
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