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Protests in Iran - 2019

Rafidi

Rafidi

Legendary Member
It is not that Iran is ruled by Arabs...
What I find hilariously funny is that a region with so much culture and history, is now ran by a 1400 years old desert ideology originated in the most ignorant piece of land at the time called Arabia.
I can't help but giggle my way through it.
Ya Shakespeare zamenak, ya Mister Giggle:

Don't you see the irony in your post? A backward region can produce an over 1400 years book that has literally ruled the greatest expanse of land in human history.

I'm at a loss with atheists. One moment you tell us that Arabia was backward and (to justify the claim that) our religion is backward (using some stereotypes of some extremists and their extreme ideology; like Wahhabism) and at another moment, you guys claim that Arabia was an advanced and flourishing civilization, and many scientifically and historically correct concepts in the Quran must have been copied. The theories surrounding how an unlearned man from a "backward" and isolated region of the world could have produced the world's most successful religion are perplexing to hear, going by the contradictory postulations. Even if we want to be open minded and say, let us give you benefit of doubt. How do you explain the genius of Muhammad (s)? To claim the unlearned man was anything short of a genius is to act unsmart.
 
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    [this is off-topic, but I wanted to respond to inaccurate disparaging statements about the Talmud]

    Judaism actually has two Talmuds (the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud, with the latter being more authoritative), and they ware thousands of pages of argument, legends, history, and legal exegesis from a 500 year period, written in three different societies: the Roman, the Byzantine, and Sassanian Iraq. Most of the Talmud is about things that don't potentially relate to Jewish/non-Jewish relations, but are about food, marriage, divorce, the sabbath, menstruation, sex, prayer, etc.

    On numerous subjects, the personages in the Talmud disagree with each other. There is a constant trope of the schools of Hillel and Shammai disagreeing, and when one Talmudic voice says one thing negative, others disagree with him, meaning the Talmud contains a lot of self-criticism.

    There are some Talmudical figures who show antipathy towards non-Jews, most notably Shimon bar Yochai, but there are also sections which are very favorable to non-Jews and demands that they be treated well. In general, Judaism looked negatively on idolotry, negatively on witchcraft, and negatively on astrology, but not necessarily pagans as people. In fact, the Talmud teaches that non-Jews are able to go to heaven (the "olam habah"), calls for charity for non-Jews, and doesn't say that non-Jews are ritually impure. Regarding ritual impurity, unlike in some other faiths, there's no problem with Jews and non-Jews touching. Jews can consume (kosher) food made by non-Jews except for wine.

    The Talmud is also liberal on conversion and recognizes semi-Jewish "G-d Fearers" (aka, Judaizers) as meritorious.

    Some criticisms of idolatry are in the context of practices that modern people would not like either; after all, pagan society of the time allowed gladiatorial fights, cruel treatment of animals, non-consensual sex, and a harder slavery than the Talmud allowed. Modern people don't like "witchcraft" either. Christianity and Islam are also anti-witchcraft.

    Also, pagan Roman society had some anti-Jewish attitudes too.

    It's worth noting that the some negativity comes in the aftermath of the bloody defeats of the Jewish rebellions by Rome and Roman torture of Jews (see the Ten Martyrs - Wikipedia) . Shimon bar Yochai who is negative about Romans, but liked Persians and believed they would one day free Israel from Rome.

    Is it good that there are sections of the Talmud that are negative towards non-Jews? No. But negative statements about others is not unique to the Jewish canon, if you go through Christian and Islamic scripture and jurisprudence you can find negative sentiments about people of other religions.

    Also, 90% of Jews don't read the Talmud and would have no idea who Shimon bar Yochai is. Personally, I have read a lot _about_ Judaism, the Talmud, and Talmudic figures, but the only Talmudical tractate I have read is the Pirkei Avot ("Ethics of the Fathers"), which is about wisdom and ethics from a partly non-religious perspective and is in the same genre of some Greek thought. The Pirkei Avot is the most popular tractate of the Talmud.

    I think Orthodox Jews are embarrassed by Shimon bar Yochai's disparaging things about non-Jews. He is remembered as the putative founder of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism).
    Your entire treatise can be summarized with one word: apologetics.
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member
    It is an obvious fact that Zo3ran exist among any peoples. How could you conclude that I am proud with my Zo3ran because I thank God God these Zo3ran aren't far from the forever losers, the abu 2ar3a zo3ran, that you have have chosen for allies in your pretended revolution to go nowhere.
    NOOO..
    in a normal society there is the rule of law .. where your freedom end when others freedom start..
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    [this is off-topic, but I wanted to respond to inaccurate disparaging statements about the Talmud]

    Judaism actually has two Talmuds (the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud, with the latter being more authoritative), and they ware thousands of pages of argument, legends, history, and legal exegesis from a 500 year period, written in three different societies: the Roman, the Byzantine, and Sassanian Iraq. Most of the Talmud is about things that don't potentially relate to Jewish/non-Jewish relations, but are about food, marriage, divorce, the sabbath, menstruation, sex, prayer, etc.

    On numerous subjects, the personages in the Talmud disagree with each other. There is a constant trope of the schools of Hillel and Shammai disagreeing, and when one Talmudic voice says one thing negative, others disagree with him, meaning the Talmud contains a lot of self-criticism.

    There are some Talmudical figures who show antipathy towards non-Jews, most notably Shimon bar Yochai, but there are also sections which are very favorable to non-Jews and demands that they be treated well. In general, Judaism looked negatively on idolotry, negatively on witchcraft, and negatively on astrology, but not necessarily pagans as people. In fact, the Talmud teaches that non-Jews are able to go to heaven (the "olam habah"), calls for charity for non-Jews, and doesn't say that non-Jews are ritually impure. Regarding ritual impurity, unlike in some other faiths, there's no problem with Jews and non-Jews touching. Jews can consume (kosher) food made by non-Jews except for wine.

    The Talmud is also liberal on conversion and recognizes semi-Jewish "G-d Fearers" (aka, Judaizers) as meritorious.

    Some criticisms of idolatry are in the context of practices that modern people would not like either; after all, pagan society of the time allowed gladiatorial fights, cruel treatment of animals, non-consensual sex, and a harder slavery than the Talmud allowed. Modern people don't like "witchcraft" either. Christianity and Islam are also anti-witchcraft.

    Also, pagan Roman society had some anti-Jewish attitudes too.

    It's worth noting that the some negativity comes in the aftermath of the bloody defeats of the Jewish rebellions by Rome and Roman torture of Jews (see the Ten Martyrs - Wikipedia) . Shimon bar Yochai who is negative about Romans, but liked Persians and believed they would one day free Israel from Rome.

    Is it good that there are sections of the Talmud that are negative towards non-Jews? No. But negative statements about others is not unique to the Jewish canon, if you go through Christian and Islamic scripture and jurisprudence you can find negative sentiments about people of other religions.

    Also, 90% of Jews don't read the Talmud and would have no idea who Shimon bar Yochai is. Personally, I have read a lot _about_ Judaism, the Talmud, and Talmudic figures, but the only Talmudical tractate I have read is the Pirkei Avot ("Ethics of the Fathers"), which is about wisdom and ethics from a partly non-religious perspective and is in the same genre of some Greek thought. The Pirkei Avot is the most popular tractate of the Talmud.

    I think Orthodox Jews are embarrassed by Shimon bar Yochai's disparaging things about non-Jews. He is remembered as the putative founder of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism).
    Thanks for your reply.

    I have no problem if our Shia doctrine is wrong and Israelis are able to make fair arrangements with their neighbours and live in peace with them as many [non Shia] Lebanese believe in. I use to tell those Lebanese to make a fair peace deal with the Israelis, build a strong and capable army (not an army with eunuch on its head like Michel Sleiman who begged the French citizenship with falsified papers) that doesn't abide by the diktats of western embassies but only by the interest and the security of the Lebanese people. So far, the reality gave reason to our Shia doctrine regarding the immutable [a divine will] bellicisme of Israel who is unable to make peace even with an eunuch like Mahmoud Abbas.

    Following our doctrine, some Jews [the Zionists] pushed by some evil beliefs [the Talmud?] have a plan to morally weaken, dominate and enslave all humans by the means of the "golden calf" [material world] over what multinational or Jewish banks have the upper had to impose their diktat.
    Always following our doctrine, we are dedicated to fight and try to kill this plan we attribute to the Zionists. Also, we believe that humans are not the first nor the last advanced beings. At some point of human technological advancement and we are very close to this point, there should be an intelligent deal or order where human beings can live in peace together. Otherwise we are heading to the end of [our] human species. C'est la vie :)
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    NOOO..
    in a normal society there is the rule of law .. where your freedom end when others freedom start..
    Sorry to tell you that your answer makes legitimate to wonder whether you are a genuine imbecile or a demagogue imbecile.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    dialectical materialism it is , ideologized atheism .. marxism is a philosophy that goes beyond religions ..
    Any and every religion is philosophy and ideology at the same time and Marxism and its derivatives are no exception.
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Apparently hundreds of people have died in karaj (suburb of Tehran) alone and 30 something from Tehran. Lots of dead in Shiraz and Kermanshah as well.

    And rumors are that bodies are being collected by the regime. No word on which branch of government. But they're being released after a payment of 4k dollars and a promise of some sort. Tbh that sounds fishy.

    But they're promising to bring the internet back online after the weekend and end all protests by Sunday. Lots of videos came out of people getting shot and footage of burned banks and seminaries.
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Btw... Last month a report was released from some organization that did thousands of randomized phone calls asking people in Iran all sorts of questions. Apparently 80 percent said they are against IR. Which makes it even impressive that the regime is able to put a lid on things after 40 years of sanctions under the worst operating environments all across the country.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    Apparently hundreds of people have died in karaj ...
    Lots of videos came out of people getting shot and footage of burned banks and seminaries.
    Still you are not able to show one of them to support your propaganda based on lies.
    In Syria, we (Shias who follow the vilayat of Sayyed Ali) have always refused to participate to battles every time some number of terrorist civilians was at the stake. You should work harder on your lies to pass.
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Still you are not able to show one of them to support your propaganda based on lies.
    In Syria, we (Shias who follow the vilayat of Sayyed Ali) have always refused to participate to battles every time some number of terrorist civilians was at the stake. You should work harder on your lies to pass.
    Yes, with internet being completely down and no organizations on the ground to verify anything it's hard to verify stuff.

    But the footage is on twitter. I've seen at least 20 separate videos with people shot. And they're from all corners of the country.

    Iran is not Syria and there won't be mass killings. There doesn't need to be. Iranian regime doesn't even technically need to be so heavy handed. Only reason they are being heavy handed is that they want this to end within the week for whatever reason. Maybe they're having extra budgetary issues and they can't drag this on. Maybe they're experimenting with a new nation wide riot response program. Who the **** knows. I say they don't need to because Iranians don't have weapons. I've said this here many time. A lot of Arab households carry weapons. Iranians don't. Plus the regime is stronger and their reach is complete. They technically could let people do whatever in the streets till they get bored but they don't want a Hong Kong situation.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    Yes, with internet being completely down and no organizations on the ground to verify anything it's hard to verify stuff.

    But the footage is on twitter. I've seen at least 20 separate videos with people shot. And they're from all corners of the country.

    Iran is not Syria and there won't be mass killings. There doesn't need to be. Iranian regime doesn't even technically need to be so heavy handed. Only reason they are being heavy handed is that they want this to end within the week for whatever reason. Maybe they're having extra budgetary issues and they can't drag this on. Maybe they're experimenting with a new nation wide riot response program. Who the **** knows. I say they don't need to because Iranians don't have weapons. I've said this here many time. A lot of Arab households carry weapons. Iranians don't. Plus the regime is stronger and their reach is complete. They technically could let people do whatever in the streets till they get bored but they don't want a Hong Kong situation.
    Do you support these riots and why?
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    Yes, with internet being completely down and no organizations on the ground to verify anything it's hard to verify stuff.

    But the footage is on twitter. I've seen at least 20 separate videos with people shot. And they're from all corners of the country.

    Iran is not Syria and there won't be mass killings. There doesn't need to be. Iranian regime doesn't even technically need to be so heavy handed. Only reason they are being heavy handed is that they want this to end within the week for whatever reason. Maybe they're having extra budgetary issues and they can't drag this on. Maybe they're experimenting with a new nation wide riot response program. Who the **** knows. I say they don't need to because Iranians don't have weapons. I've said this here many time. A lot of Arab households carry weapons. Iranians don't. Plus the regime is stronger and their reach is complete. They technically could let people do whatever in the streets till they get bored but they don't want a Hong Kong situation.
    I am glad you updated the world on the reason they are being heavy handed and killing protestors and blocking the entire internet :)
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    I am glad you updated the world on the reason they are being heavy handed and killing protestors and blocking the entire internet :)
    JL 2o3od 3a2il ma khassak, la bi Iranian protests wa la bi barnamajhom al nawawe.
     
    Last edited:
    loubnaniTO

    loubnaniTO

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    مواقع إيرانية: مجلس الخبراء يقرر حجب كل شبكات التواصل الأجنبية في إيران
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Do you support these riots and why?
    I want every mullah hung from a lamp post. As far as these protests are concerned, I don't really care. I stopped caring a long time ago. I don't know what the solution is here. I don't want foreign intervention nor will there be one, but I don't see how people can do anything. Country will be in limbo for a while yet.

    =================================

    Internet is back online in Uromia. Azeri areas generally didn't see too many riots. Typical. The most fervent support for IR is always from Azeris ironically.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    I want every mullah hung from a lamp post. As far as these protests are concerned, I don't really care. I stopped caring a long time ago. I don't know what the solution is here. I don't want foreign intervention nor will there be one, but I don't see how people can do anything. Country will be in limbo for a while yet.

    =================================

    Internet is back online in Uromia. Azeri areas generally didn't see too many riots. Typical. The most fervent support for IR is always from Azeris ironically.
    To summarize it, you don't know where to go. You can keep thinking about it. But just stay aside.
     
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