Protests in Iran - 2019

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Nimaa

Active Member
Protests are mostly over. Internet is mostly back online. My mom was able to call all her relatives today and they're saying things are back to normal for the most part, apart from Shiraz. Things are still hairy there.
 
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  • O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Protests are mostly over. Internet is mostly back online. My mom was able to call all her relatives today and they're saying things are back to normal for the most part, apart from Shiraz. Things are still hairy there.
    why though? Is Shiraz a much poorer region compared to other cities or region in iran?
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    why though? Is Shiraz a much poorer region compared to other cities or region in iran?
    Shiraz is a major city actually. The reason is that Shiraz is considered the epicenter of Persian culture. It's an hour's drive from Persepolis and Pars province (the Greeks called and referred to Iranians by the name of people from this province). Because of that people are way more liberal and anti-Islam compared to people in Isfahan, Tabriz etc... During the Shah times, M. R shah was investing heavily in Shiraz and the city's university was considered one of the best in the country. People are generally very anti-IR there.

    I grew up partly in Shiraz. My father's family are from there, but my mom's family are from Isfahan. I would spend three months of the year in Isfahan and 9 months a year in Shiraz. The difference was noticeable and everybody in Isfahan always had an opinion about the attitude of people in Shiraz. People in Shiraz called Isfahanis backward for how much more covered up and conservative they were.

    Poorer cities are actually more pro-IR. No different from Alabama and Utah and... how they are more Republican. The only difference is that Azeri Turks are the most pro regime. They don't have the same degree of Persian pride for obvious reasons and don't really identify all that much with Iran's pre-Islamic history so they are more willing to fight for the regime. It's also why a lot of the times you hear IR officials speak with a hint of Turkish accent. A lot of them are Azeri. Ironically there's a separatist movement brewing there as well.

    I've always wanted Shiraz, Isfahan and couple of Southern coastal provinces to break away from Iran and form a separate country, but that's just a ridiculous pipe dream. btw, Shiraz was the capital of Iran briefly in the 1700's. Zand Dynasty.

    Every year, on the birthday of Cyrus the Great, people from Shiraz and surrounding areas travel to his grave and hold a ceremony. In recent times the numbers have been getting so large that IR has been getting worried. They've been banning gatherings there in recent times.



     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Thanks for the info @Nimaa

    there is a funny iranian song circulating on the internet can you please tell me what they are saying 🤭 🤭 🤭
    @0:55 <<<< the best part of it but wait for it

     
    Frisbeetarian

    Frisbeetarian

    Legendary Member
    What if we don't care about standing up to the super powers? Your points would be valid of people gave a shit about those things. Most people just want a better life. Once their primary socioeconomic needs are met, then you can go on your loudspeaker and talk about resistance. And if we're being honest, Iranians have less in common with Arab wannabes in charge than Americans. So what are we resisting exactly? Our language is far more distant to Arabic in terms of grammar and sentence structure and origins than it is to English (of course persianized Arabic vocabulary is rampant in the spoken language), Iranians don't see Islam as a native religion, people are fascinated by American culture etc... Yeah, Americans are bullies and hypocrites to the nth degree, but if you're gonna talk about resistance, the regime in charge needs to at least be Iranian. Right now we have a pseudo Arab dictatorship preaching a foreign religion and fighting everybody on people's behalf.

    Your hopes and dreams are unworkable I'm afraid.
    Funny how you talk about a foreign religion, is that the same religion adhered and respected by the vast majority of your countrymen? Hasn't that been the case for centuries now? And if so then where's the foreign element in the religion or its practice?

    What's really foreign to the Iranian people is this pseudo conception of narrow Persian Nationalism that you're espousing. Wrangled out of the pits of the European experiment with nation building and attempted to impose like some sort of ideological figuration that one can simply impose. Especially when you account for the multicultural aspect of Persian Empires. What really ends up being produced is an ideological aberration, masquerading as Persian but really is just a figuration of wannabe European, middle class and bourgeois Iranian society trying to impose its will by casting the vast majority of the population as alien, when the only thing alien to the character of the "nation" is themselves and their imported figurations. A figuration that sits more at home in the Palatinate of the Rhine than the central plateau of Iran.

    The crux here not being nationalism or persian nationalism in themselves, but the way in which this nationalism is built. And if that figuration is built by excluding or demonizing the other(the poor, the uneducated, the muslim, a certain kind of foreigner, the arab) then I'm afraid that it is your dreams and hopes that are unworkable.
     
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    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Thanks for the info @Nimaa

    there is a funny iranian song circulating on the internet can you please tell me what they are saying 🤭 🤭 🤭
    @0:55 <<<< the best part of it but wait for it

    It's not really funny if you understand. Just cheesy boring one-liners made to rhyme with the tune of a semi-famous song. MEK cult has a lot of these cheesy videos. They're only popular with the 1950's crowd that thinks this is somehow sticking it to the mullahs and basijis. Meanwhile they're sitting there all fat and warm without a care in the world.

    MEK is a joke organization.
     
    N

    Nimaa

    Active Member
    Funny how you talk about a foreign religion, is that the same religion adhered and respected by the vast majority of your countrymen? Hasn't that been the case for centuries now? And if so then where's the foreign element in the religion or its practice?

    What's really foreign to the Iranian people is this pseudo conception of narrow Persian Nationalism that you're espousing. Wrangled out of the pits of the European experiment with nation building and attempted to impose like some sort of ideological figuration that one can simply impose. Especially when you account for the multicultural aspect of Persian Empires. What really ends up being produced is an ideological aberration, masquerading as Persian but really is just a figuration of wannabe European, middle class and bourgeois Iranian society trying to impose its will by casting the vast majority of the population as alien, when the only thing alien to the character of the "nation" is themselves and their imported figurations. A figuration that sits more at home in the Palatinate of the Rhine than the central plateau of Iran.

    The crux here not being nationalism or persian nationalism in themselves, but the way in which this nationalism is built. And if that figuration is built by excluding or demonizing the other(the poor, the uneducated, the muslim, a certain kind of foreigner, the arab) then I'm afraid that it is your dreams and hopes that are unworkable.
    You couldn't have talked more out of your behind if you tried.

    All major empires were multicultural in the past. Iran was no exception. I'm not espousing "Persian" nationalism nor am I promoting a uni-ethnic society. I'm espousing Iranian identity which exists. Ever since Islam came to Iran, with short exceptions here and there, non-Iranian elements have been able to rule over Iranians with limited success and that continues to this day. Limited because they've been able to push their religion on us. First it was the uncultured arabs, then it was the Torks.

    You're just working backwards from your conclusion. Typical wannabe intellectual. Yes, Islam has been a feature of Iran for over a thousand years, but it's also true that Iranian tribes have played second fiddle in the Iranian plateau for over a thousand years. Arabs, then came the mongols and then the Torks. None of these people are Iranian, but they adopted Iranian culture somewhat and forced Iranian society to adopt other elements.

    What we have today is the result of that. Iranian culture is alive and well hiding under all that. Kurds and Persians and other Iranian tribes have a distinct culture compared to Arabs and Torks and if you think trying to celebrate and promote that culture is somehow copying Euros than you're not all there. If anything, they are the ones that copied administration from us Iranians. Alexander and Greek states copied correct administrative rule after they conquered Iran. Greek historians and philosophers themselves have put this down in writing.

    Keep talking about Persian nationalism to move the goal post. I'm talking about Iranian culture and yes, Persians have been the most important people of Iran traditionally, but that's not the point. Iranian culture is alive and well and what we've had over the past thousand years has been a constant battle between invaders into Iran and people who've resisted complete annihilation.

    Iran is Muslim, Iran has Torks, Iran has mullahs; but Iran was and will always be the true home of Iranic tribes and eventually either Iran will break up or the tug of war will continue until the pendulum shifts. Islam has nothing to do with true Iranian culture. NOTHING. From the Mongols and Arabs to Perso-Torkish rulers like Shah Ismael (who forced Iran to become shia by the sword), none of them truly assimilated but instead brought their own foreign culture and mixed it with parts of Iranian culture and traditions and here we are.

    Unfortunately we've lost far too many battles to be able to win the war. But we can swing the pendulum towards our end and eventually this will happen. Modern technology and culture means Iranian culture is all of a sudden more valuable than it has been over the past thousand years. So keep being a hater. 1400 years of hate and we're still here, even if we've lost the war.
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member
    @Nimaa your inputs are extremely interesting..
    would you raccomend some books about persian administrative philosophy ?
     
    Frisbeetarian

    Frisbeetarian

    Legendary Member
    All major empires were multicultural in the past. Iran was no exception.
    That depends on your definition of multiculturalism. Was the Roman Empire multicultural?

    I'm not espousing "Persian" nationalism nor am I promoting a uni-ethnic society. I'm espousing Iranian identity which exists. Ever since Islam came to Iran, with short exceptions here and there, non-Iranian elements have been able to rule over Iranians with limited success and that continues to this day. Limited because they've been able to push their religion on us. First it was the uncultured arabs, then it was the Torks.
    So what exactly are you basing your conception of a national identity on? Persian identity based on common history? Or a racial profile that is exclusive to Persian identity?


    You're just working backwards from your conclusion. Typical wannabe intellectual. Yes, Islam has been a feature of Iran for over a thousand years, but it's also true that Iranian tribes have played second fiddle in the Iranian plateau for over a thousand years. Arabs, then came the mongols and then the Torks. None of these people are Iranian, but they adopted Iranian culture somewhat and forced Iranian society to adopt other elements.
    This is barely coherent. Try again.

    What we have today is the result of that. Iranian culture is alive and well hiding under all that. Kurds and Persians and other Iranian tribes have a distinct culture compared to Arabs and Torks and if you think trying to celebrate and promote that culture is somehow copying Euros than you're not all there. If anything, they are the ones that copied administration from us Iranians. Alexander and Greek states copied correct administrative rule after they conquered Iran. Greek historians and philosophers themselves have put this down in writing.
    Persian culture is not something you can remove from history as a body and then try to deconstruct based on logic; which is what you're doing. The Germans did that back in the day, its pretty passe and amateurish from someone wanting to talk about identity. It ain't the 20th century no more. Persian culture that you see today is the result of different historical processes each culminating in an inflection in the way societies in this region behaved and we shaped. This totality that you're talking about, this conception of identity is what's fairly bourgeois European. This way of typifying identity.

    Keep talking about Persian nationalism to move the goal post. I'm talking about Iranian culture and yes, Persians have been the most important people of Iran traditionally, but that's not the point. Iranian culture is alive and well and what we've had over the past thousand years has been a constant battle between invaders into Iran and people who've resisted complete annihilation.
    I like how you're accusing me of moving the goal post when you're trying to disassociate yourself from the word nationalism because you naively think that the word itself exposes your racial conception of identity, which you're trying to espouse. Here's a hint for ya; nationalism doesn't equate to a racial conception of identity.

    Iran is Muslim, Iran has Torks, Iran has mullahs; but Iran was and will always be the true home of Iranic tribes and eventually either Iran will break up or the tug of war will continue until the pendulum shifts. Islam has nothing to do with true Iranian culture. NOTHING. From the Mongols and Arabs to Perso-Torkish rulers like Shah Ismael (who forced Iran to become shia by the sword), none of them truly assimilated but instead brought their own foreign culture and mixed it with parts of Iranian culture and traditions and here we are.
    Persian culture is precisely the result of the intermingling of different cultures, ethnicities, practices and religions. It's the Europeans that have tried to construct a filtered ahistorical conception of identity in order to mold and construct their nascent nation states. Usually at the detriment of people not included in the newly birthed culture. The reason we're special - the people of this region- is because we've resisted reductive and simplistic conceptions of identity in favor of the emancipating idea that we're all human. Radical i know right? Now get out of your alt right bubble and go talk to your fellow Iranians.

    Unfortunately we've lost far too many battles to be able to win the war. But we can swing the pendulum towards our end and eventually this will happen. Modern technology and culture means Iranian culture is all of a sudden more valuable than it has been over the past thousand years. So keep being a hater. 1400 years of hate and we're still here, even if we've lost the war.
    Hate to break it to ya, but the real outsider is yourself here.
     
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    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Persian culture is precisely the result of the intermingling of different cultures, ethnicities, practices and religions. It's the Europeans that have tried to construct a filtered ahistorical conception of identity in order to mold and construct their nascent nation states. Usually at the detriment of people not included in the newly birthed culture. The reason we're special - the people of this region- is because we've resisted reductive and simplistic conceptions of identity in favor of the emancipating idea that we're all human. Radical i know right? Now get out of your alt right bubble and go talk to your fellow Iranians.
    Sounds like Marxist baloney. Is that all they teach you kids in schools these days?
     
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