• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

Question About Lebanese and Israeli-Arabs/Israeli-Palestinians

Jorje

Legendary Member
Ayman Odeh: We Are Ending Netanyahu’s Grip on Israel
The leader of the Joint List of predominantly Arab parties explains why it will use its power to help make Benny Gantz prime minister of Israel.
By Ayman Odeh
Mr. Odeh leads the Joint List, the third-largest bloc in Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, and is chairman of the Hadash Party.
  • Sept. 22, 2019


    • 419



Image
Benny Gantz greeting supporters on election night.

Benny Gantz greeting supporters on election night. CreditCreditGali Tibbon/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
JERUSALEM — The Arab Palestinian citizens of Israel have chosen to reject Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his politics of fear and hate, and the inequality and division he advanced for the past decade. Last summer, Mr. Netanyahu declared that Arab Palestinian citizens of Israel, who make up a fifth of the population, were to be second-class citizens, officially. “Israel is not a state of all its citizens,” Mr. Netanyahu wrote on Instagram after passing the Nation-State law. “According to the basic nationality law we passed, Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people — and only it.”
The Israeli government has done everything in its power to reject those of us who are Arab Palestinian citizens, but our influence has only grown. We will be the cornerstone of democracy. Arab Palestinian citizens cannot change the course of Israel alone, but change is impossible without us. I have argued earlier that if the center-left parties of Israel believe that Arab Palestinian citizens have a place in this country, they must accept that we have a place in its politics.
Today, those parties no longer have a choice. At least 60 percent of the Arab Palestinian citizens have voted in the recent elections, and the Joint List, our coalition representing Arab and Arab-Jewish parties, has won 13 seats and become the third-largest list in the Knesset. We will decide who will be the next prime minister of Israel.
Sign Up for Debatable
Agree to disagree, or disagree better? We'll help you understand the sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week, from new and familiar voices.
SIGN UP




Image
Ayman Odeh casting his vote on Tuesday in Haifa, Israel.

Ayman Odeh casting his vote on Tuesday in Haifa, Israel.CreditAriel Schalit/Associated Press
On behalf of the Joint List, I am recommending that Israel’s president choose Benny Gantz, the leader of the centrist Blue and White party, to be the next prime minister. This will be the most significant step toward helping create the majority needed to prevent another term for Mr. Netanyahu. And it should be the end of his political career.

My colleagues and I have made this decision not as an endorsement of Mr. Gantz and his policy proposals for the country. We are aware that Mr. Gantz has refused to commit to our legitimate political demands for a shared future, and because of that we will not join his government.

  • You have 2 free articles remaining.
Subscribe to The Times

Our demands for a shared, more equal future are clear: We seek resources to address violent crime plaguing Arab cities and towns, housing and planning laws that afford people in Arab municipalities the same rights as their Jewish neighbors and greater access for people in Arab municipalities to hospitals. We demand raising pensions for all in Israel so that our elders can live with dignity, and creating and funding a plan to prevent violence against women.
We seek the legal incorporation of unrecognized — mostly Palestinian Arab — villages and towns that don’t have access to electricity or water. And we insist on resuming direct negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians to reach a peace treaty that ends the occupation and establishes an independent Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders. We call for repealing the nation-state law that declared me, my family and one-fifth of the population to be second-class citizens. It is because over the decades candidates for prime minister have refused to support an agenda for equality that no Arab or Arab-Jewish party has recommended a prime minister since 1992.
Yet this time, we are making a different choice. We have decided to demonstrate that Arab Palestinian citizens can no longer be rejected or ignored. Our decision to recommend Mr. Gantz as the next prime minister without joining his expected national unity coalition government is a clear message that the only future for this country is a shared future, and there is no shared future without the full and equal participation of Arab Palestinian citizens.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/...on=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending

The morning after the exclusionary “nation-state” law was passed, I drove my children to school and thought about raising them in a country that has repeatedly rejected Arab Palestinian children. Israeli governments have made this rejection clear time and again, from the years of military rule imposed on Arabs in Israel from the founding of the state until 1966, to the longstanding attempts to suppress Palestinian culture and the continuing decision to occupy the lands and lives of our sisters and brothers in the West Bank and Gaza.
Every time I take my youngest daughter, Sham, to her school, I see a passage written on the wall from the Book of Psalms: “The stone that the builders rejected became a cornerstone.”
By choosing to recommend Mr. Gantz, we have proven that cooperation between people, Arab and Jewish, is the only principled political strategy that will lead to a better future for us all. Countless people in Israel and around the world will be grateful to see an end to Mr. Netanyahu’s long reign of corruption, lies and fear.
We will continue our work toward a better, equal future, and our struggle for civil rights, rooted in our national identity as Palestinians. There is room enough for all of us in our shared homeland, room enough for the poetry of Mahmoud Darwish and the stories of our grandparents, room enough for all of us to raise our families in equality and peace.
 

الحج موكي

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Ayman Odeh: We Are Ending Netanyahu’s Grip on Israel
The leader of the Joint List of predominantly Arab parties explains why it will use its power to help make Benny Gantz prime minister of Israel.
By Ayman Odeh
Mr. Odeh leads the Joint List, the third-largest bloc in Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, and is chairman of the Hadash Party.
  • Sept. 22, 2019


    • 419



Image
Benny Gantz greeting supporters on election night.

Benny Gantz greeting supporters on election night. CreditCreditGali Tibbon/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
JERUSALEM — The Arab Palestinian citizens of Israel have chosen to reject Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his politics of fear and hate, and the inequality and division he advanced for the past decade. Last summer, Mr. Netanyahu declared that Arab Palestinian citizens of Israel, who make up a fifth of the population, were to be second-class citizens, officially. “Israel is not a state of all its citizens,” Mr. Netanyahu wrote on Instagram after passing the Nation-State law. “According to the basic nationality law we passed, Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people — and only it.”
The Israeli government has done everything in its power to reject those of us who are Arab Palestinian citizens, but our influence has only grown. We will be the cornerstone of democracy. Arab Palestinian citizens cannot change the course of Israel alone, but change is impossible without us. I have argued earlier that if the center-left parties of Israel believe that Arab Palestinian citizens have a place in this country, they must accept that we have a place in its politics.
Today, those parties no longer have a choice. At least 60 percent of the Arab Palestinian citizens have voted in the recent elections, and the Joint List, our coalition representing Arab and Arab-Jewish parties, has won 13 seats and become the third-largest list in the Knesset. We will decide who will be the next prime minister of Israel.
Sign Up for Debatable
Agree to disagree, or disagree better? We'll help you understand the sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week, from new and familiar voices.
SIGN UP




Image
Ayman Odeh casting his vote on Tuesday in Haifa, Israel.

Ayman Odeh casting his vote on Tuesday in Haifa, Israel.CreditAriel Schalit/Associated Press
On behalf of the Joint List, I am recommending that Israel’s president choose Benny Gantz, the leader of the centrist Blue and White party, to be the next prime minister. This will be the most significant step toward helping create the majority needed to prevent another term for Mr. Netanyahu. And it should be the end of his political career.

My colleagues and I have made this decision not as an endorsement of Mr. Gantz and his policy proposals for the country. We are aware that Mr. Gantz has refused to commit to our legitimate political demands for a shared future, and because of that we will not join his government.

  • You have 2 free articles remaining.
Subscribe to The Times

Our demands for a shared, more equal future are clear: We seek resources to address violent crime plaguing Arab cities and towns, housing and planning laws that afford people in Arab municipalities the same rights as their Jewish neighbors and greater access for people in Arab municipalities to hospitals. We demand raising pensions for all in Israel so that our elders can live with dignity, and creating and funding a plan to prevent violence against women.
We seek the legal incorporation of unrecognized — mostly Palestinian Arab — villages and towns that don’t have access to electricity or water. And we insist on resuming direct negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians to reach a peace treaty that ends the occupation and establishes an independent Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders. We call for repealing the nation-state law that declared me, my family and one-fifth of the population to be second-class citizens. It is because over the decades candidates for prime minister have refused to support an agenda for equality that no Arab or Arab-Jewish party has recommended a prime minister since 1992.
Yet this time, we are making a different choice. We have decided to demonstrate that Arab Palestinian citizens can no longer be rejected or ignored. Our decision to recommend Mr. Gantz as the next prime minister without joining his expected national unity coalition government is a clear message that the only future for this country is a shared future, and there is no shared future without the full and equal participation of Arab Palestinian citizens.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/books/review-dutch-house-ann-patchett.html?fallback=0&recId=1RDdcLUnBA0updsE8lkcaKYdG0r&locked=0&geoContinent=NA&geoRegion=CT&recAlloc=story-desks&geoCountry=US&blockId=home-featured&imp_id=391650124&action=click&module=editorContent&pgtype=Article®ion=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending

The morning after the exclusionary “nation-state” law was passed, I drove my children to school and thought about raising them in a country that has repeatedly rejected Arab Palestinian children. Israeli governments have made this rejection clear time and again, from the years of military rule imposed on Arabs in Israel from the founding of the state until 1966, to the longstanding attempts to suppress Palestinian culture and the continuing decision to occupy the lands and lives of our sisters and brothers in the West Bank and Gaza.
Every time I take my youngest daughter, Sham, to her school, I see a passage written on the wall from the Book of Psalms: “The stone that the builders rejected became a cornerstone.”
By choosing to recommend Mr. Gantz, we have proven that cooperation between people, Arab and Jewish, is the only principled political strategy that will lead to a better future for us all. Countless people in Israel and around the world will be grateful to see an end to Mr. Netanyahu’s long reign of corruption, lies and fear.
We will continue our work toward a better, equal future, and our struggle for civil rights, rooted in our national identity as Palestinians. There is room enough for all of us in our shared homeland, room enough for the poetry of Mahmoud Darwish and the stories of our grandparents, room enough for all of us to raise our families in equality and peace.

Uh, thanks I guess?
PS they'll be disappointed when they see Likud in the Gov't ?.
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
How so?
My candidate in the elections won.

Desperate to keep pretending that this vote is meaningless or has no consequences.

It would be a sweet irony that the man who railed against Palestinian-Israelis and has been inciting against them for the last decade is brought down because of their votes and ends up in jail.

Gantz and Netenyahu are similar in many ways, but they aren't identical.
 

الحج موكي

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Desperate to keep pretending that this vote is meaningless or has no consequences.

It would be a sweet irony that the man who railed against Palestinian-Israelis and has been inciting against them for the last decade is brought down because of their votes and ends up in jail.

Gantz and Netenyahu are similar in many ways, but they aren't identical.

I'd credit Yisrael Beitenu more, as they defected from the right due to Likud alliance with ultra orthodox. Lieberman's bloc nearly doubled.

Gantz will be better for Israel. Though I'm not very familiar with him (haven't researched him besides news reports), he certainly doesn't have Netanyahu's negative baggage, and he will NOT harm the US bipartisan support of Israel as Netanyahu began to do.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
I have not met any Palestinian-Israelis** personally, but I do know that quite a few Palestinian-Israeli politicians put every other Arab politician (Lebanese, Palestinian and whatever) for like the last few decades to total shame. People specifically like Haneen Zoabi, Tuma-Sleiman (who btw is from a Christian family) and Ayman Odeh are doing an incredible job representing their cause and their people - in an eloquent and skilled manner. Odeh specifically seems destined for something bigger - if only Palestinians can get someone like that instead of that crippled Abbas.

**Arab-Israeli is a term of identity that was forced on Israel's Palestinian citizens to deny them a Palestinian identity. Let's not take it for granted.


Not really.

Christians in Israel identify as Arameans, Druze as simply Druze and Muslims as Arabs. There's no 'Palestinian' identity among Arabic-speaking Israelis.

When Israel was created, Palestinian meant Jewish. So the Arabic speakers who were smart enough not to leave when Arab leaders told them so it would be easier to 'push Jews to the sea', they were never familiar with the term 'Palestinian'.

Arab Muslims identifying as Palestinian is a very recent thing in an attempt to usurp Jews' ties to the land. Just like 'Syrian' before Baathism meant Christian and only Levantine Christians identified as such, and then Arab Muslims usurped Christians' identity.
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
Not really.

Christians in Israel identify as Arameans, Druze as simply Druze and Muslims as Arabs. There's no 'Palestinian' identity among Arabic-speaking Israelis.

When Israel was created, Palestinian meant Jewish. So the Arabic speakers who were smart enough not to leave when Arab leaders told them so it would be easier to 'push Jews to the sea', they were never familiar with the term 'Palestinian'.

Arab Muslims identifying as Palestinian is a very recent thing in an attempt to usurp Jews' ties to the land. Just like 'Syrian' before Baathism meant Christian and only Levantine Christians identified as such, and then Arab Muslims usurped Christians' identity.

Yeah of course. All Christians think like you. All this, all that. Must be hilarious to live in that pitiful mind of yours - can't blame you I guess, since your whole life and well being revolves around kissing you know what.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Yeah of course. All Christians think like you. All this, all that. Must be hilarious to live in that pitiful mind of yours - can't blame you I guess, since your whole life and well being revolves around kissing you know what.

 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So do we consider the Samaritans of the Galilee "Arab" Israeli or "Palestinian" Israeli"? and what about these few Metwalis from the Galilee that were from South Lebanon and became Israeli, are these guys "Palestinian", "Arab", "Lebanese" or "Shi'a" Israeli?
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
So do we consider the Samaritans of the Galilee "Arab" Israeli or "Palestinian" Israeli"? and what about these few Metwalis from the Galilee that were from South Lebanon and became Israeli, are these guys "Palestinian", "Arab", "Lebanese" or "Shi'a" Israeli?

How about you let them define themselves the way they want to be defined?
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
I'm not Lebanese, but I would think it would be beneficial to Lebanon to allow third-country people to visit who have previously visited Israel. Although the real effects on tourism of the prohibition are unknowable, the Lebanese prohibition probably deters as many people from visiting Lebanon as it deters from visiting Israel. On the tripadvisor.com forum for Lebanon people constantly ask "Can I visit Lebanon after a visit to Israel?" so the number of people who have visited Israel who are interested in Lebanon too isn't zero.


I realize that this is a very distant dream, but I think that if Lebanon allowed entry to people who have been to Israel and Israel didn't overly-scrutinize visitors who have previously been to Lebanon (their entry is not prohibited), a cruise industry in the Eastern Mediterranean could develop and the ferry industry could grow.

I also think it is not right that someone who is a Palestinian might be prohibited from entering Lebanon, since that person's visit to Israel (or brief passage _through_ Israel) might be difficult or impossible to avoid.


Quote:
"I also think it is not right that someone who is a Palestinian might be prohibited from entering Lebanon, since that person's visit to Israel (or brief passage _through_ Israel) might be difficult or impossible to avoid."
End of Quote.

Don't you think the above, if granted, could lead to more Palestinians coming into Lebanon to settle down and take as a home?
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
The question:

"If you met an Israeli-Arab/Israeli-Palestinian who was not anti-Israel, would you consider him or her a traitor?"

My Answer:

When it comes to Israehelli Arabs, I do not consider them traitors. They were victims of circumstances. And living in a so called "Jewish state" or apartheid state is not by their choice. If given the chance, they would want to live in the land of Palestine for all as equal citizens, in a state that is neither Jewish nor Islamic/Arabic. A land for all as Palestine has always been in history and not the exclusive right to any one group. However, if they do hold favorable opinion about being Israehelli or take pride in their Israehelli citizenship, I'd consider that as Stockholm syndrome.

As for the Palestinian, who is a victim of occupation and he is not a citizen of Israehell, if he holds positive view of Israehell, in the sense that he supports the occupation policies, I'd consider him either mentally ill/stupid or a traitor (we have Lebanese who fall in this category and are either of the two options or both).
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Uh, thanks I guess?
PS they'll be disappointed when they see Likud in the Gov't ?.

More Catholic than the pope. More royal than the king...more Zionist than the Israehellis. And you still want to be allowed entry into Lebanon? [....]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
The question:

"If you met an Israeli-Arab/Israeli-Palestinian who was not anti-Israel, would you consider him or her a traitor?"

My Answer:

When it comes to Israehelli Arabs, I do not consider them traitors. They were victims of circumstances. And living in a so called "Jewish state" or apartheid state is not by their choice. If given the chance, they would want to live in the land of Palestine for all as equal citizens, in a state that is neither Jewish nor Islamic/Arabic. A land for all as Palestine has always been in history and not the exclusive right to any one group. However, if they do hold favorable opinion about being Israehelli or take pride in their Israehelli citizenship, I'd consider that as Stockholm syndrome.

As for the Palestinian, who is a victim of occupation and he is not a citizen of Israehell, if he holds positive view of Israehell, in the sense that he supports the occupation policies, I'd consider him either mentally ill/stupid or a traitor (we have Lebanese who fall in this category and are either of the two options or both).

actually eventhough we as Lebanese are against Israel the Jarabs in Israel are happy there. they dont want to live in the occupied territories. why would they aslan?? bunch of extremist parties and poor bastards.
 

الحج موكي

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The question:

"If you met an Israeli-Arab/Israeli-Palestinian who was not anti-Israel, would you consider him or her a traitor?"

My Answer:

When it comes to Israehelli Arabs, I do not consider them traitors. They were victims of circumstances. And living in a so called "Jewish state" or apartheid state is not by their choice. If given the chance, they would want to live in the land of Palestine for all as equal citizens, in a state that is neither Jewish nor Islamic/Arabic. A land for all as Palestine has always been in history and not the exclusive right to any one group. However, if they do hold favorable opinion about being Israehelli or take pride in their Israehelli citizenship, I'd consider that as Stockholm syndrome.

As for the Palestinian, who is a victim of occupation and he is not a citizen of Israehell, if he holds positive view of Israehell, in the sense that he supports the occupation policies, I'd consider him either mentally ill/stupid or a traitor (we have Lebanese who fall in this category and are either of the two options or both).

77% of Israeli Arabs prefer living in Israel than in any other country in the world. Unsurprisingly, they don't want to live in the shithole Islamic countries all around them.

Are they all suffering Stockholm Syndrome?
Or are your viewpoints on this subject just fantasy?
 
Top